Ivan Basso "I get no respect!"



barnstorm said:
. It is also funny comparing Hinault and Lance. Hinault was clearly the boss of the peloton and demolished everything and everyone in his sights. His nickname, the Badger, supports this. There are stories about him going to the front of races and pulling just to crush and ******** the field. What he did with Lemond when he promised to work for him and then attacked the whole race... shows him as quite a dominating and unsharing figure. In a lot of ways, he was a lot worse than Lance but that is considered his charm. He is loved for the same things Lance is hated for. I am not trying to continue the Lance debate because as I have said, I think it's pointless. But, it is interesting to observe that his role as the boss of the tdf peloton is a negative when hinault doing the same more openly and brashly was a positive.

Hinault was an arrogant bugger.

I like Basso though - he seems to be an even tempered guy.
 
barnstorm said:
Harry, thanks for the offer, will do.

Back to Basso. He just won the TT at the CDS where Jan was supposed to be. Short, prologue length deal but looking at top 15, he beat some truly noted TTrs

1 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 10.33
2 Brian Vandborg (Den) Team CSC 0.01
3 Stefan Schumacher (Ger) Gerolsteiner 0.03
4 Benoît Vaugrenard (Fra) Francaise Des Jeux
5 Sergiy Matveyev (Ukr) Ceramica Panaria-Navigare 0.04
6 Christophe Moreau (Fra) Ag2R Prevoyance 0.08
7 Serhiy Honchar (Ukr) T-Mobile Team
8 Michael Rogers (Aus) T-Mobile Team 0.09
9 Michael Rich (Ger) Gerolsteiner
10 José Alberto Martinez (Spa) Agritubel 0.10
11 Stef Clement (Ned) Bouygues Telecom 0.11
12 Bobby Julich (USA) Team CSC 0.13
13 Sébastien Joly (Fra) Francaise Des Jeux 0.14
14 Emilien Berges (Fra) Auber 93 0.18
15 Bastiaan Giling (Ned) T-Mobile Team 0.21

Moreau, Honchar, Rogers, Rich, Julich. Those are all folks with a serious list of TTs won during their careers. Honchar was world TT champ I believe plus all of those Giro TTs, Rogers-worlds, Julich-Olympic podium plus tons of others, Rich is a specialist, Moreau-tour prologue.

looking interesting for May and July


Good result for Basso as you say - the guys he beat can all TT very well.
 
Basso is definitely on form, he won the CI as well. He'll be in good shape for the Giro!
 
Eldrack said:
Basso is definitely on form, he won the CI as well. He'll be in good shape for the Giro!
I think Bassos problem with Time Trialing is because it has been his focused week point, when he gets in the longer Time Trials he tends to go out to fast. Last Year in the TDF, he was the fastest at the first time check, then faded. In 2004, He looked like he was dragging the last part of the Alp D'Huez Time Trial and the flat Time Trial. If i recall right, the Giro TT was after his 45 minute loss so he had lost alot of the pressure on him.

I think he just needs to work on dishing his efforts out more evenly, so Its nice to see him doing well in the TT, but I think until we see him in either an uphill TT or a longer TT there still will be a little bit of question mark (Eventhough at least we have seen him in a TT this year unlike Ullrich)
 
meandmybike said:
A He has too much compassion for his riders to be motivated purely by the desire to win.
Perhaps he should change that philosophy. The objective is to win, not to "have compassion for your riders".

Nice guys finish last -- Leo Durocher
 
cyclingheroes said:
Question is... isn't it a bit to early? (his form)
If he's peaking for the Giro (as he is), he should be in pretty decent shape in April, so no, I don't think it's to early.

Capt.Injury said:
I think Bassos problem with Time Trialing is because it has been his focused week point, when he gets in the longer Time Trials he tends to go out to fast. Last Year in the TDF, he was the fastest at the first time check, then faded. In 2004, He looked like he was dragging the last part of the Alp D'Huez Time Trial and the flat Time Trial. If i recall right, the Giro TT was after his 45 minute loss so he had lost a lot of the pressure on him.
I think he just needs to work on dishing his efforts out more evenly, so Its nice to see him doing well in the TT, but I think until we see him in either an uphill TT or a longer TT there still will be a little bit of question mark (Eventhough at least we have seen him in a TT this year unlike Ullrich)
About Basso's Time Trailing, in last year in the TDF, he was the fastest at the first time check yes, but the place were he lost time, was in the downhill’s (due to "poor" downhill technique), and not because he just faded. In the first (long) TT in the Giro he was second (only beaten by Zabriske), and in the second he won as you say, so I don't reckon he's problem with the long TT's. He's also reported to have worked specially with his leg muscles this winter, so he'll be able to perform even better in the long TT's.
 
Alesle said:
If he's peaking for the Giro (as he is), he should be in pretty decent shape in April, so no, I don't think it's to early.
Yes but Turin, Tirreno and the criterium International where all in March (Turin, March 4) and i think that's a bit early. He raced very strong in all these races...
 
Alesle said:
If he's peaking for the Giro (as he is), he should be in pretty decent shape in April, so no, I don't think it's to early.

About Basso's Time Trailing, in last year in the TDF, he was the fastest at the first time check yes, but the place were he lost time, was in the downhill’s (due to "poor" downhill technique), and not because he just faded. In the first (long) TT in the Giro he was second (only beaten by Zabriske), and in the second he won as you say, so I don't reckon he's problem with the long TT's. He's also reported to have worked specially with his leg muscles this winter, so he'll be able to perform even better in the long TT's.
Yes he did lose time on the downhill technical sections. Part of that is technique for sure. Bigger guys often have some trouble with the narrow twists and turns of wich there were many.
But descending also takes upper body strength and if you are fatigued, your weaker muscles and coordination go quicker than your legs, just a thought.
 
cyclingheroes said:
Yes but Turin, Tirreno and the criterium International where all in March (Turin, March 4) and i think that's a bit early. He raced very strong in all these races...
Turin was his first race this season (wasn't it?) and T-A just a couple of days later, and it seems hard to me that he should be in his top shape in his first races of the season (although he did strong performances), CI were very late in March, and Circuit de la Sarthe, were he also performed very well, was now in early in April. And to be honest, I'm more worried about those who haven't showed any sort of form yet (as Gilberto Simoni), but I feel pretty confident that all the contenders will be on form in the Giro, and I hope we'll witness one of the most exciting giro's in many years (the route looks awesome):cool:.

bobke said:
Yes he did lose time on the downhill technical sections. Part of that is technique for sure. Bigger guys often have some trouble with the narrow twists and turns of wich there were many.
But descending also takes upper body strength and if you are fatigued, your weaker muscles and coordination go quicker than your legs, just a thought.
Indeed, but it's a "known fact" that Basso's strengths doesn't include descending, and I've never said he wasn't tired, I just said that his descending skills was a part of the reason why he lost some time (at least that was my intention to say :p).
 
bobke said:
Yes he did lose time on the downhill technical sections. Part of that is technique for sure. Bigger guys often have some trouble with the narrow twists and turns of wich there were many.
But descending also takes upper body strength and if you are fatigued, your weaker muscles and coordination go quicker than your legs, just a thought.
I do triathlons so spend a lot of time on my tt bike. The road bike is much more tiring on the arms than the tt bike. arms are resting while in the aerobars plus the tt is a really short ride compared to what these guys do on their roadies on most days. I don't buy the tired arms argument. I buy the tired legs argument. He went out fast and hammered up the hills, then he is not a great descender and tt bikes handle like ****.
 
rejobako said:
Perhaps he should change that philosophy. The objective is to win, not to "have compassion for your riders".

Nice guys finish last -- Leo Durocher

Paris Roubaix.

Amstel Gold.
 
limerickman said:
It's a movie about CSC called "Overcoming" : it's a behind the scenes look at CSC's 2004 season.
I watched this on Friday night before heading off to Maastricht on Saturday.... I didn't realize Carols Sastre was such a funny little ****...... my favorite scene is where Sastre is telling the story of when he rode up to Hincapie at the 2004 Tour...

Sastre says: "Hello Lance, how do you think you'll go in the Tour ?"

Hincapie responds: "Come on Carlos you know who I am... !"

Sastre straight back over the net: "Come on Lance, tell me how you think you'll go in the Tour ?"

Hincapie shakes his head and doesn't respond to Sastre.....

Hincapie missing the sarcasm and the fact that Sastre was taking the **** out of him for not having a cycling personality and that he was only able to ride for Lance...

Hincapie missed the joke... I thought it was a crack up ! Jolly good stuff ! What a mardy Hincapie is….. :)
 
whiteboytrash said:
I watched this on Friday night before heading off to Maastricht on Saturday.... I didn't realize Carols Sastre was such a funny little ****...... my favorite scene is where Sastre is telling the story of when he rode up to Hincapie at the 2004 Tour...

Sastre says: "Hello Lance, how do you think you'll go in the Tour ?"

Hincapie responds: "Come on Carlos you know who I am... !"

Sastre straight back over the net: "Come on Lance, tell me how you think you'll go in the Tour ?"

Hincapie shakes his head and doesn't respond to Sastre.....

Hincapie missing the sarcasm and the fact that Sastre was taking the **** out of him for not having a cycling personality and that he was only able to ride for Lance...

Hincapie missed the joke... I thought it was a crack up ! Jolly good stuff ! What a mardy Hincapie is….. :)


Sastre's a joker alright : he seems to work well with Basso though.
 
limerickman said:
Sastre's a joker alright : he seems to work well with Basso though.
Sastre was very funny. I thought George sort of got the joke though...but it did trail off.
I took the joke as nobody knows anyone but Lance Lance Lance and how sick everyone must be of that including G.
 
barnstorm said:
......... It is also funny comparing Hinault and Lance. Hinault was clearly the boss of the peloton and demolished everything and everyone in his sights. His nickname, the Badger, supports this.......... He is loved for the same things Lance is hated for. I am not trying to continue the Lance debate because as I have said, I think it's pointless. But, it is interesting to observe that his role as the boss of the tdf peloton is a negative when hinault doing the same more openly and brashly was a positive.

I think this simply has a lot to do with the amount time that has passed. People mellow in their attitudes over time. I started following cycling as a kid during the Hinault years and he really was disliked outside of France. There were a lot of 'anyone but Hinault' people....in fact it was quite like the polarisation that Armstrong seems to cause.
 
On the Overcoming DVD.....it's in Dansk with English subtitles on the CSC website. Is there an English language version also? No big deal, just wondering....
 
Tonto said:
On the Overcoming DVD.....it's in Dansk with English subtitles on the CSC website. Is there an English language version also? No big deal, just wondering....
Riis, Basso, Sastre speak multiple languages so it changes between Spanish, Italian, Engish, Danish throughout the movie..... so regardless of what language who speak you will need the subtitles at some point !
 
It will be interesting to see that if Basso was to win say two or three Tours on the trot as to what kind of character he may become. I view him as rather timid and he cannot be compared to Hinault and Armstrong with regards to being the "Boss". Perhaps cycling will be like Star Wars. Lance is Palpatine and now he is gone the rebels (and Disco imperials) can live a free life.
 
El Loto said:
It will be interesting to see that if Basso was to win say two or three Tours on the trot as to what kind of character he may become. I view him as rather timid and he cannot be compared to Hinault and Armstrong with regards to being the "Boss". Perhaps cycling will be like Star Wars. Lance is Palpatine and now he is gone the rebels (and Disco imperials) can live a free life.
...and Jan Ullrich is Jabba the Hutt :D
 

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