Jan is still better than Lance!!



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bobke

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Oct 3, 2004
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I don't care about these so called revelations.
I love Jan.

I am so sad to see him forced out of the only Tour de France he could win since 1997.

I was always so sad to see him come in second to that mean American Lance, who we all know really was the one who was doping, despite having passed every doping control in and out of competition over 20 years as a professional athlete, a French federal investigation, a three week insurance trial in Dallas, a defamation suit in Italy, and a libel suit in London and winning them all as he did 7, count 'em, 7 Tours de France.

And now, to see poor Jan, age 32, a fully grown man getting paid millions of euros a year to ride his bike, taking off months at a time to travel in South Africa, Portugal, Italy and Australia being forced, absolutely FORCED to take illegal drugs, to lie to his teammates, to lie to his employer, to cheat dozens of fellow cyclists out of higher placings and money. Its just soooo sad!!

I feel sooooo sad for poor Jan who is clearly a victim of a system and problem much bigger than him alone. I hope now that he can carry a message of hope along with Filippo Simeoni, David Millar, Phillipe Gaumont, and Jesus Manzano to help clean up the sport.

I really think Jan can do this and I hope he does, and I hope he keeps wearing that simply fabulous pink team kit thats sets off his muscles so wonderfully!!!!!!!!!
 
hombredesubaru said:
I don't care about these so called revelations.
I love Jan.

I am so sad to see him forced out of the only Tour de France he could win since 1997.

I was always so sad to see him come in second to that mean American Lance, who we all know really was the one who was doping, despite having passed every doping control in and out of competition over 20 years as a professional athlete, a French federal investigation, a three week insurance trial in Dallas, a defamation suit in Italy, and a libel suit in London and winning them all as he did 7, count 'em, 7 Tours de France.

And now, to see poor Jan, age 32, a fully grown man getting paid millions of euros a year to ride his bike, taking off months at a time to travel in South Africa, Portugal, Italy and Australia being forced, absolutely FORCED to take illegal drugs, to lie to his teammates, to lie to his employer, to cheat dozens of fellow cyclists out of higher placings and money. Its just soooo sad!!

I feel sooooo sad for poor Jan who is clearly a victim of a system and problem much bigger than him alone. I hope now that he can carry a message of hope along with Filippo Simeoni, David Millar, Phillipe Gaumont, and Jesus Manzano to help clean up the sport.

I really think Jan can do this and I hope he does, and I hope he keeps wearing that simply fabulous pink team kit thats sets off his muscles so wonderfully!!!!!!!!!

Absolutely!!!

Remember when he lost to that drugged up Pantani on Les Deuz Alpes?!?!
My chocolate lab could go up Deux Alpes faster than Jan did that day?
I dont thnk his doctor made it in then.

Why dont they just call the rest day: the TRANSFUSION DAY!
What happened to Jan, Basso, and Vino last year.
Their doctor didnt make in on thr TRANSFUSION DAY and they all tanked on Courchevel. Plain and simple.

I am sooooo glas all these guys are going down.
'And dont give me they are suspended they arent positive etc.
Mancebo RETIRED from the sport forever.
Isnt that enough proof?????
 
hombredesubaru said:
I don't care about these so called revelations.
I love Jan.

I am so sad to see him forced out of the only Tour de France he could win since 1997.

I was always so sad to see him come in second to that mean American Lance, who we all know really was the one who was doping, despite having passed every doping control in and out of competition over 20 years as a professional athlete, a French federal investigation, a three week insurance trial in Dallas, a defamation suit in Italy, and a libel suit in London and winning them all as he did 7, count 'em, 7 Tours de France.

And now, to see poor Jan, age 32, a fully grown man getting paid millions of euros a year to ride his bike, taking off months at a time to travel in South Africa, Portugal, Italy and Australia being forced, absolutely FORCED to take illegal drugs, to lie to his teammates, to lie to his employer, to cheat dozens of fellow cyclists out of higher placings and money. Its just soooo sad!!

I feel sooooo sad for poor Jan who is clearly a victim of a system and problem much bigger than him alone. I hope now that he can carry a message of hope along with Filippo Simeoni, David Millar, Phillipe Gaumont, and Jesus Manzano to help clean up the sport.

I really think Jan can do this and I hope he does, and I hope he keeps wearing that simply fabulous pink team kit thats sets off his muscles so wonderfully!!!!!!!!!
Doped or not, Jan still deserves respect. There's hundreds if not thousands of drugmonkies still out there racing, but i don't see many of them achieving what ullrich has.

I know you're just trying to throw this in the face of the trolls on this forum that trash armstrong day and night out of envy and hatred, but talking this way about Jan isn't fair and makes you no better than them.
 
dexjava said:
Doped or not, Jan still deserves respect. There's hundreds if not thousands of drugmonkies still out there racing, but i don't see many of them achieving what ullrich has.

I know you're just trying to throw this in the face of the trolls on this forum that trash armstrong day and night out of envy and hatred, but talking this way about Jan isn't fair and drops you to their level.
No, I am actually quoting from others' posts about Jan in another thread and juxtaposing their comments with the truth.
As a person I amsad for Jan.
But he has cheated.
He is not the person to clean the sport up.
He is not a great hero.
It is all those pressures and his inability to deal with them that has ruined him.
Drug use, alcohol, overeating, inability to focus and train, and now resorting to illegal drugs, it is a fairly common pattern-- one familiar to those who know Pantani and others.

Lets take the pressure OFF of Jan a great athlete, and on to others who can actually do something about this.
 
Bad form guys. Come on lets let the news speak for itslef and not stoop to the lows that we know others have for 7 years past.
 
hombredesubaru said:
Lets take the pressure OFF of Jan a great athlete, and on to others who can actually do something about this.
While many Jan fans never engaged in the Armstrong witch-hunt, for the rest that did it is a rather ironic series of events. Pretty much sucks all around though... except for the LA/Disco poseurs who will understand/care little of this issue and will be tuning it to see if Hincapie has what it takes in the Race to Replace :rolleyes: .
 
wilmar13 said:
While many Jan fans never engaged in the Armstrong witch-hunt, for the rest that did it is a rather ironic series of events. Pretty much sucks all around though... except for the LA/Disco poseurs who will understand/care little of this issue and will be tuning it to see if Hincapie has what it takes in the Race to Replace :rolleyes: .
Indeed
 
dexjava said:
Doped or not, Jan still deserves respect.
No. No, he does not.

The idea that Jan (if ultimately found guilty), after all these years, after all the money he has earned, all the adoration he has gained, all the trust he has engendered, and after everything cycling has given him -and where would cycling be without its fans- that he still "deserves respect" is absurd. I suspect that you might be too.
 
seriouslydog said:
No. No, he does not.

The idea that Jan (if ultimately found guilty), after all these years, after all the money he has earned, all the adoration he has gained, all the trust he has engendered, and after everything cycling has given him -and where would cycling be without its fans- that he still "deserves respect" is absurd. I suspect that you might be too.
Second that. I'll wait until he's proven guilty beyond doubt, and when he is found guilty then all respect will be gone. THe whole problem with the sport is when people still respect cheaters, it's insane!
 
If Jan is guilty, and that is a "if", he does not deserve respsct. Why should he? What has he done? The dopers have recieved millions of dollors from the fans to enable the lifestyle we will never enjoy.

Dopers rob clean riders of hard earned respect.

How does Zabel feel now being robbed of the chance for a 7th green jersey because Jan wanted his riders in the 2005 TDF.

Dopers are not to be respected.

* This is not an attack on Jan alone but all dopers. {*if Jan is guilty}
 
Jono L said:
Second that. I'll wait until he's proven guilty beyond doubt, and when he is found guilty then all respect will be gone. THe whole problem with the sport is when people still respect cheaters, it's insane!
No the problem with the sport is very much that the UCI and WADA are unable to catch the cheaters.
Also the punishment for being caught isn't a big enough blow for younger riders.
Think about it this way: once a seasoned pro has been doping for a while he's never going to give it up. He doesn't know how to race without the help. He's never going to stop until his career ends. The older guys are hurt badly by a 2 year ban. The younger riders... not so much. The young impressionable guys just getting into the pro ranks in their early twenties don't view a 2 year ban as a career ending blunder. It appears that even if they get caught, it's just a major setback, not a career blunder. Why would a 22 year old neo-pro be afraid to try ped's when the consequences for being caught is that he can't race until he's 24? The temptation of winning races is much bigger than the fear. Without bigger punishment and much stronger anti-doping organizations, it doesn't matter what the fans or anyone else says, the will keep doing it.
 
wolfix said:
If Jan is guilty, and that is a "if", he does not deserve respsct. Why should he? What has he done? The dopers have recieved millions of dollors from the fans to enable the lifestyle we will never enjoy.

Dopers rob clean riders of hard earned respect.

How does Zabel feel now being robbed of the chance for a 7th green jersey because Jan wanted his riders in the 2005 TDF.

Dopers are not to be respected.

* This is not an attack on Jan alone but all dopers. {*if Jan is guilty}
He has my sympathies, for sure... I don't know about respect. No man should go home like this, a day before the tour. I feel the same about Basso and the others... but especially for JU.

What I don't get is the silence connection. So many riders doping, in these high level, with the same doctor...

How could 50 riders all be doping at the same doctor and NEVER cross paths? Especially if he had to treat them all especially before a big race they were all going to be on? Odd.

Did they all know about each other? We're talking so many riders... how come nearly no one accused the other before?

It's just so very weird.
 
This is the most pathetic thread I've ever read on this forum. Could we have it locked pls?
 
I think Lance was far better in shutting mouths and fill others' pockets with money to obtain silence.
He did that, but with some ups and downs, for 7 years, and some "shutted mouths" was counting days just to speak out and tell something after his retirement.
For sure his private story helped him in gaining respect. In the peloton there's respect for the boss, probably a "mafious" respect, and who is against the boss ends like Simeoni.
 
Pretty simple, all around, if Jan is found guilty of comitting an offense, he deserves the wrath of the fans (and others). If not, any such aspertions are pre-mature ejaculations. This also holds true for all the other riders who have been found guilty in kangaroo courts like this.
I'm not a Lance fan, nor a Jan fan, but I do understand the concept of innocent until proven guilty. Unless some of you have some empirical proof to lay on the table, in my humble opinion, you are talking out the wrong orifice.
Continue with casting stones...
 
Would would Jan go to the expense of installing a 120 000 euro altitude chamber to train at his home if he could just go down to the doping clinic and get a shot of EPO or have a blood transfusion which would have the same effect but save him a whole lot of money. I guess all the detractors of the riders on this forum have not heard of "innocent until proven guilty". All that has happened is that the riders are associated with the doctor, and that is according to some spanish code breakers. Why only release the names of the riders the day before the tour when there is no chance of DNA testing to clear their names? They authorities have had these documents in their possession for almost two months. THis whole tour is going to be a joke, and the best man is definitely not going to win this year, neither is the second, third or fourth best for that matter.
 
Ungoliant said:
Would would Jan go to the expense of installing a 120 000 euro altitude chamber to train at his home if he could just go down to the doping clinic and get a shot of EPO or have a blood transfusion which would have the same effect but save him a whole lot of money. I guess all the detractors of the riders on this forum have not heard of "innocent until proven guilty". All that has happened is that the riders are associated with the doctor, and that is according to some spanish code breakers. Why only release the names of the riders the day before the tour when there is no chance of DNA testing to clear their names? They authorities have had these documents in their possession for almost two months. THis whole tour is going to be a joke, and the best man is definitely not going to win this year, neither is the second, third or fourth best for that matter.
Well, I don't think anyone think that EPO or transfusions alone can do the job, you gotta work as well - no one doubting that Jan worked his ass off - the problem is - if everyone are doping the same way - you have to have the extra work, as well.

I agree about the timing, it just stinks! It's an authomatic conviction, for some of the older riders, Jan first and foremost - a probable death sentence for their careers.

They really should have come forth with the information sooner, a day before the o tour isn't the way to go about it. When I think of all the fans who had traveled a long way to be there... how disappointing and horrible.
 
Orla_24 said:
Well, I don't think anyone think that EPO or transfusions alone can do the job, you gotta work as well - no one doubting that Jan worked his ass off - the problem is - if everyone are doping the same way - you have to have the extra work, as well.
I was meaning the effect of boosting red cell count, either by training hard at altitude, or the easy way of synthetically enhancing the count through doping. Obviously they would still need to work their asses off :)
 
But I have trouble feeling any sympathy for any of those caught. They all knew the rules. They all "broke" them. They got caught. Now it's time to pay the piper. Who I truly I feel sorry for the fans that were duped...

L
 
davidbod said:
Bad form guys. Come on lets let the news speak for itslef and not stoop to the lows that we know others have for 7 years past.
100% agree. While I understand that it's "payback time" for some that have listened to it about Armstrong for years, it's just as deplorable to do it in reverse.

Rise above that ****. The evidence is certainly damning at this point, but let's see what the investigation says before we condemn anyone.

I like Jan, Basso, and Lance. They're gifted riders regardless of the doping issue. The doping (if ever proven) says more about their character than their riding ability (under the assumption that just about everyone dopes).
 
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