Jan: No Doyenne

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Davey Crockett, Apr 22, 2004.

  1. h squared

    h squared Guest

    Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >
    > "h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > > if it's not interesting to you, that's ok. there's never a lot of stuff
    > > on this group on how to get mentally tougher so i figure people don't
    > > want to talk about it.
    > >

    >
    > How trainable is that? In all my years w/ the US team, there were only a
    > couple of instances where a sports psychologist was brought in to work with
    > us. Most of that focused on how deal with external distractions, such as
    > security.


    i don't know how trainable it is. if that's all you got on the us team,
    maybe not much at all (assuming they knew what the heck they were
    doing). but i would think at least recognizing one's weakness/es would
    help somewhat.

    > On my own, I met with a sports psych., but it was for improving focus and
    > motivation. I don't consider that to be the same as mental toughness,
    > though.
    >
    > First, we would need to define mental toughness.


    that's true. i might include focus and motivation in the definition, but
    that wouldn't be the entirety. i'm not actually sure how i would define
    it.

    i thought the following was interesting, but i don't really know that
    much about the subject so don't hurt me if it's wrong.
    http://wings.avkids.com/Tennis/Features/loehr-01.html

    -There is a link between mental and physical performance. "Emotions
    cause biochemical changes in your body. The chemistry of fear causes
    muscles to tighten, when what you need to achieve peak performance is
    relaxed muscles." But choking is a normal human response, everyone is
    afraid sometime. What's important is to learn how to deal with fear.
    Coping with fear head-on demonstrates mental strength, while tanking and
    anger are two inappropriate methods of dealing with fear.

    "Mentally tough athletes have a different response to stress. They are
    challenged and can mobilize all their talents in a positive way that
    creates enjoyment and fun."-

    hh
     


  2. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >
    > How trainable is that? In all my years w/ the US team, there were only a
    > couple of instances where a sports psychologist was brought in to work
    > with us.


    I suspect that there's some selection bias in that situation. One probably
    doesn't get onto the US national team unless there is already at least a
    fair amount of mental toughness. The question is whether "a fair amount"
    is enough to make it to the top rung.

    I think that it can also be the case that getting to the top rung is
    easier than staying on the top rung.
     
  3. Carl Sundquist wrote:


    > How trainable is that? In all my years w/ the US team, there were only a
    > couple of instances where a sports psychologist was brought in to work with
    > us. Most of that focused on how deal with external distractions, such as
    > security.


    A Sports Psych guru (aka "Mind Giant") is/was a semi-permanent feature
    on the Australian men's hockey team the last few years.
     
  4. "h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > -There is a link between mental and physical performance. "Emotions
    > cause biochemical changes in your body. The chemistry of fear causes
    > muscles to tighten, when what you need to achieve peak performance is
    > relaxed muscles."


    I can think of a few fight-or-flight moments where I established new
    personal records.
     
  5. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > OK, I'd better not write him off yet as he has a good track record in
    > the Tour. But Ullrich was in better shape and seemed to be better
    > mentally with the Coast/Bianchi chaos last year than he is with the
    > old crowd in Telekom this year.


    Perhaps the difference is that Ullrich is looking for results beyond the
    Tour? Armstrong can afford to be at peak form earlier, because after the
    TdF, his season is over. IIRC, Ullrich has stated a desire to target the
    Olympics and Worlds as well. With those additional goals in mind, perhaps
    he's not that far off schedule?

    Just thinking out loud here....
     
  6. Tim Mullin

    Tim Mullin Guest

    "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in
    news:[email protected]:

    > Most of that focused on how deal with external
    > distractions, such as security.


    Does having once dropped out of a race to check out a really good yard sale
    along the course qualify as a lack of focus?
     
  7. "Tim Mullin" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Carl Sundquist" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    > > Most of that focused on how deal with external
    > > distractions, such as security.

    >
    > Does having once dropped out of a race to check out a really good yard

    sale
    > along the course qualify as a lack of focus?


    That depends on your priorities.
     
  8. h squared

    h squared Guest

    Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >


    > I can think of a few fight-or-flight moments where I established new
    > personal records.



    what, like that time on the recumbent when you saw some "normal" bike
    riders that you knew and were worried they would recognize you if they
    caught up to you? (well yeah, a dumb remark, but you should have
    provided more details in your post if you didn't want me to write that...)

    also that same article says that anger is a poor way to respond to fear,
    but don't people always say not to make LANCE mad?

    heather
     
  9. "h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    >
    > Carl Sundquist wrote:
    > >

    >
    > > I can think of a few fight-or-flight moments where I established new
    > > personal records.

    >
    >
    > what, like that time on the recumbent when you saw some "normal" bike
    > riders that you knew and were worried they would recognize you if they
    > caught up to you?


    Even if they had caught up, they would have had a hard time seeing who it
    was.

    http://www.lightningbikes.com/racing1.htm
     
  10. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    h squared <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Carl Sundquist wrote:
    > >

    >
    > > I can think of a few fight-or-flight moments where I established new
    > > personal records.

    >
    >
    > what, like that time on the recumbent when you saw some "normal" bike
    > riders that you knew and were worried they would recognize you if they
    > caught up to you? (well yeah, a dumb remark, but you should have
    > provided more details in your post if you didn't want me to write that...)
    >
    > also that same article says that anger is a poor way to respond to fear,
    > but don't people always say not to make LANCE mad?


    In the case of not making Lance mad, that isn't really about fear.
    Anyway, that's a bit of a generalization, as anger does give some people
    focus. Lance seems to be one of them. When someone has angered him in the
    past, it seems like his anger is focused on punishing that person, and the
    best way for him to do that is to whip them in a race.

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    Q: Can we call it a quagmire yet?

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  11. Tim Mullin wrote:

    > "Jeff Jones" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > news:[email protected]:
    >
    >
    >>OK, I'd better not write him off yet as he has a good track record in
    >>the Tour. But Ullrich was in better shape and seemed to be better
    >>mentally with the Coast/Bianchi chaos last year than he is with the
    >>old crowd in Telekom this year.

    >
    >
    > Perhaps the difference is that Ullrich is looking for results beyond the
    > Tour? Armstrong can afford to be at peak form earlier, because after the
    > TdF, his season is over. IIRC, Ullrich has stated a desire to target the
    > Olympics and Worlds as well. With those additional goals in mind, perhaps
    > he's not that far off schedule?
    >
    > Just thinking out loud here....


    He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
    and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.
     
  12. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

    TM wrote:
    >
    > Are you guys suggesting that the people who finish ahead of you in a
    > race (assuming you race) do so because you don't have the heart or
    > mind of a champion?
    >

    This raises an interesting question. Pro teams hire soigneurs, mechanics,
    managers, doctors, etc., but do any squads have a hired sport psychologist,
    or does that role fall on the DS?
     
  13. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
    > and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.


    You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in the
    top 10.
     
  14. Tom Kunich wrote:
    > "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
    >>and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.

    >
    >
    > You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in the
    > top 10.
    >
    >


    No, I'm simply stating that other riders are doing very well, much
    better after some team changes. Riis certainly seems to have a positive
    effect on former domestiques and lieutenants. After all, even Julich
    seems to be having a renaissance season. He certainly knows what the
    tour podium looks like.
     
  15. h squared

    h squared Guest

    Carl Sundquist wrote:
    >


    > Even if they had caught up


    64.2 mph? i think you were safe :)
    (although crashing at that speed would suck)

    how did you get involved with that stuff? did they approach you or was
    it something that you decided on your own to do?

    and i can't believe that guy (penseyres) rode the stp in 7.5 hours. it
    takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from seattle to portland.

    heather
     
  16. "h squared" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > Even if they had caught up

    >
    > 64.2 mph? i think you were safe :)
    > (although crashing at that speed would suck)


    It did suck. On the next run after the video clip, the rear tire blew off
    the rim. You can't use much body English in an enclosed HPV to try to
    compensate for a tire that's washing out from underneath you, so I ended up
    steering off the road at about 55 mph. Hit a ditch, flipped over, and
    according to the CHP officer hired to close the road for the runs, I was
    airborne for about 45 feet (he measured with the little wheel-thingy they
    use at accident sites). Fortunately, I suffered only a chipped vertebrae,
    although it made it difficult to breathe deeply for awhile. The fairing for
    the bike was crushed, though. On my flight home, the airlines took no
    sympathy or notice of the cervical collar I was wearing and kept me in
    coach.

    >
    > how did you get involved with that stuff? did they approach you or was
    > it something that you decided on your own to do?


    They approached me in an very indirect way. It was by sheer dumb luck that I
    was able to be involved. Of course when it started, I was only a local racer
    with a year's racing under my belt.

    >
    > and i can't believe that guy (penseyres) rode the stp in 7.5 hours. it
    > takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from seattle to portland.
    >


    Despite my recollection that it a minimal effort to get that bike up to 40
    mph, he's a pretty amazing guy, isn't he?
     
  17. Robert Chung

    Robert Chung Guest

    h squared wrote:
    > it takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from
    > seattle to portland.


    It's taken me 3 hours on the freeway to drive from Santa Monica to
    Pasadena.
     
  18. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Tom Kunich wrote:
    > > "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]
    > >
    > >>He'd best watch himself. Jens Voigt is doing pretty nicely in Georgia
    > >>and has had a pretty decent season so far. Good move to CSC.

    > >
    > > You couldn't POSSIBLY be comparing TdG with TdF? Jens won't finish in

    the
    > > top 10.

    >
    > No, I'm simply stating that other riders are doing very well, much
    > better after some team changes. Riis certainly seems to have a positive
    > effect on former domestiques and lieutenants. After all, even Julich
    > seems to be having a renaissance season. He certainly knows what the
    > tour podium looks like.


    Oh, I agree completely with you on that count. Riis is working miracles with
    his people. He seems able to get the best out of each man. But his team
    strategy is to get stage wins and he does that by taking guys who are so far
    back on GC that the pack won't chase them and then having them go on long
    early breaks.

    Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all over
    the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.
     
  19. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Robert Chung" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > h squared wrote:
    > > it takes us about 3 hours on the *freeway* to drive from
    > > seattle to portland.

    >
    > It's taken me 3 hours on the freeway to drive from Santa Monica to
    > Pasadena.


    Yeah, but that's because you're DWA.
     
  20. "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > Oh, I agree completely with you on that count. Riis is working miracles

    with
    > his people. He seems able to get the best out of each man. But his team
    > strategy is to get stage wins and he does that by taking guys who are so

    far
    > back on GC that the pack won't chase them and then having them go on long
    > early breaks.
    >
    > Now, there's a certain genius to that since he has CSC plastered all over
    > the headlines, but that isn't winning the Tour.
    >


    But of the approx 22 teams in the TdF each year, how many riders have a
    realistic chance of winning it? If that was all there was to the race, then
    they wouldn't celebrate stage winners or the various jersey holders (other
    than yellow of course). What reason do those other teams have for entering
    the race, if not to win individual GC?
     
Loading...
Similar Threads - Doyenne
  1. Flahut
    Replies:
    0
    Views:
    319
Loading...