Jan NOT fat

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Bill C, Jan 14, 2006.

  1. Bill C

    Bill C Guest

    Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
    year when it looks like he's got his shit together, and so does the
    team, we aren't having it.
    Shit I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
    good.
    Go Jan!
    Bill C
     
    Tags:


  2. Bill C wrote:
    > Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
    > year when it looks like he's got his shit together, and so does the
    > team, we aren't having it.
    > Shit I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
    > good.
    > Go Jan!


    I never liked the Jan-is-fat threads. So believe me when I say
    that one reason we don't have the thread is that it may not
    matter anymore. Jan has fallen short too many times to get
    too excited about his prospects. It may just not be his turn.
    I'd like to see him bring a real challenge, but can't really
    believe it.

    It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
    wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
    interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
    As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
    (Anquetil 1957-61). If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
    testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.
     
  3. Bill C

    Bill C Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Bill C wrote:
    > > Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
    > > year when it looks like he's got his shit together, and so does the
    > > team, we aren't having it.
    > > Shit I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
    > > good.
    > > Go Jan!

    >
    > I never liked the Jan-is-fat threads. So believe me when I say
    > that one reason we don't have the thread is that it may not
    > matter anymore. Jan has fallen short too many times to get
    > too excited about his prospects. It may just not be his turn.
    > I'd like to see him bring a real challenge, but can't really
    > believe it.
    >
    > It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
    > wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
    > interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
    > As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
    > (Anquetil 1957-61). If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
    > testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.


    Thanks for that Ben
    But Jan is going to take the win this year since Lance is gone.
    Go Jan! Telekom! T-Mobile!
    And to be politcally incorrect:
    Deutschland Uber Alles!
    Bill C
     
  4. crit PRO

    crit PRO Guest

    what about longest gap between starts?? CdV?
     
  5. Bill C wrote:
    > Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
    > year when it looks like he's got his shit together, and so does the
    > team, we aren't having it.
    > Shit I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
    > good.
    > Go Jan!
    > Bill C
    >


    judging from the photos of the tmobile team lately, the only thing big
    about jan is his hair! Instead of fat, whatever he's eating turns into
    hair. He's pretty svelte, that's for sure. He'll probably give himself
    the old bean-shave for the season, though.
     
  6. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:1137296491.579146.13922[email protected]
    > Bill C wrote:
    >> Every year we have the annual Jan's weight, rag on Jan thread. This
    >> year when it looks like he's got his shit together, and so does the
    >> team, we aren't having it.
    >> Shit I've got three solid German teams to cheer on all year, life is
    >> good.
    >> Go Jan!

    >
    > I never liked the Jan-is-fat threads. So believe me when I say
    > that one reason we don't have the thread is that it may not
    > matter anymore. Jan has fallen short too many times to get
    > too excited about his prospects. It may just not be his turn.
    > I'd like to see him bring a real challenge, but can't really
    > believe it.
    >
    > It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
    > wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
    > interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
    > As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
    > (Anquetil 1957-61).



    Philippe Thijs (1914-1920)


    If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
    > testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.



    I he wins, Armstrong will be elated, because everybody will say: if
    Armstrong had been there, etc.

    Benjo
     
  7. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    "crit PRO" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > what about longest gap between starts?? CdV?



    Probably Rossignoli, who made his debut in 1904, rode his last Tour in 1927,
    but was absent between 1909 and 1923.

    Benjo
     
  8. benjo maso wrote:

    > > It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
    > > wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
    > > interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
    > > As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
    > > (Anquetil 1957-61).

    >
    > Philippe Thijs (1914-1920)


    Ah, thanks Benjo, I did look this up but missed Thijs.
    On looking at my list again, I see there was only one Tour
    in between 1914 and 1920, a war also of course.
    That's why I missed Thijs. So his case is similar to
    Bartali's, while Anquetil nominally missed three chances
    and then returned to win (four in a row, no less).

    If Fignon had beaten Lemond in 1989 he would have gone
    five years between victories (1984-1989).

    I don't know the answer to Crit Pro's question about who has
    gone the longest between Tour starts - let's restrict it to the
    postwar era. I believe Museeuw started in 1997 and 2001,
    but I'm sure there is someone with a longer absence - perhaps
    some Spanish or Italian domestique.

    > > If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
    > > testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

    >
    > I he wins, Armstrong will be elated, because everybody will say: if
    > Armstrong had been there, etc.


    Everybody who says that will be able to say that no matter
    who wins, and some will. It is most likely that whoever wins
    will be someone that has previously been behind Armstrong.
    (Otherwise it would almost have to be a first time participant.)
    But the counterfactual is meaningless, and Armstrong would
    likely admit that himself.

    I did think the converse thought, that if Jan wins this year,
    people will trot out the counterfactual "If only Armstrong hadn't
    been there, Jan might have won seven tours." But it could
    also be a testament to the amount of potential Jan and his
    handlers have wasted.

    Ben
     
  9. [email protected] wrote:
    > I don't know the answer to Crit Pro's question about who has
    > gone the longest between Tour starts - let's restrict it to the
    > postwar era. I believe Museeuw started in 1997 and 2001,


    In recent years, you have Rebellin in 1997 and 2003.

    Jenko
     
  10. benjo maso

    benjo maso Guest

    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > benjo maso wrote:
    >
    >> > It would be historic though. The longest interval between Tour
    >> > wins was 10 years for Bartali 1938-1948, but of course that was
    >> > interrupted by the war, so there were only two Tours in between.
    >> > As far as I can tell the next longest interval was four years
    >> > (Anquetil 1957-61).

    >>
    >> Philippe Thijs (1914-1920)

    >
    > Ah, thanks Benjo, I did look this up but missed Thijs.
    > On looking at my list again, I see there was only one Tour
    > in between 1914 and 1920, a war also of course.
    > That's why I missed Thijs. So his case is similar to
    > Bartali's, while Anquetil nominally missed three chances
    > and then returned to win (four in a row, no less).
    >
    > If Fignon had beaten Lemond in 1989 he would have gone
    > five years between victories (1984-1989).
    >
    > I don't know the answer to Crit Pro's question about who has
    > gone the longest between Tour starts - let's restrict it to the
    > postwar era. I believe Museeuw started in 1997 and 2001,
    > but I'm sure there is someone with a longer absence - perhaps
    > some Spanish or Italian domestique.


    In 1962 and 1963 (when the Tour abandoned the national team format en went
    back to trade teams), there were a lot or riders who hadn't particpated to
    the Tour for years, like Benedetti (1955-62), Sorgeloos (55-62), Couvreur
    (55-62), Impanis (56-63), but they were "beaten" by Cerami (1949 as an
    Italian, 1957 as a Belgian). And there are probably some others.


    >> > If Jan could win, nine years after, it will be a
    >> > testament to something - though to what I don't exactly know.

    >>
    >> I he wins, Armstrong will be elated, because everybody will say: if
    >> Armstrong had been there, etc.

    >
    > Everybody who says that will be able to say that no matter
    > who wins, and some will.


    Sure, but it would more convincing if it's someone Armstrong has beaten all
    the time than a young rider who has never participated in the Tour before -
    Cunego for instance.


    >It is most likely that whoever wins
    > will be someone that has previously been behind Armstrong.
    > (Otherwise it would almost have to be a first time participant.)


    Not impossible. Gimondi won in 1965 after 4 years Anquetil (who hoped that
    Poulidor would win, because he had always beaten him).


    > But the counterfactual is meaningless, and Armstrong would
    > likely admit that himself.


    I think Armstrong would like it a lot if everybody is saying that he would
    have won if he had not retired. I think he hopes that Ullrich or Basso will
    win.

    > I did think the converse thought, that if Jan wins this year,
    > people will trot out the counterfactual "If only Armstrong hadn't
    > been there, Jan might have won seven tours."


    They certainly will say that, and Armstrong will be very pleased.

    > But it could
    > also be a testament to the amount of potential Jan and his
    > handlers have wasted.


    And they have, I agree with you. Armstrong didn't need a good manager, but
    Ullrich did and I'm afraid he never had one. But the best thing that
    happened to Ullrich last year is that Godefroot has retired.

    Benjo
     
  11. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    I don't believe that Ullrich will be able to beat a REALLY motivated
    Ivan Basso. I just finished watching the 2005 Giro and Tour DVD's and I
    think that there's only two guys that could put up a genuine challenge
    to Ivan - Valverde and a healthy Cunego. Plainly Cunego was as good as
    everyone else but Basso in the Giro while suffering from
    mononucleosis!

    I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
    I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
    Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
    year's Giro.

    But if indeed Landis and Leipheimer are both talking about the Giro
    this could change things. Surely these two guys have a significant
    chance at hitting the podium in Milano. This year's Giro looks to have
    significantly harder climbing than last year though a little less of
    it. Floyd and Levi are climbers with the advantage of Levi being as
    good as Simoni on hard climbs and a lot better time trialer.

    Cunego isn't a good time trialer at last look but then it's always hard
    to use last year's results on this years's athletes with modern
    training methods.

    It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
    the year like last year.
     
  12. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    I think I read somewhere that Cunego's performance numbers were a lot
    higher than Armstrongs. If that's the case and he puts up a real fight
    with Basso in this year's Tour and both of them distance Jan as I
    suspect will happen, then that "Armstrong would have won" loses its
    impetus.
     
  13. In article
    <[email protected]>,
    "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I don't believe that Ullrich will be able to beat a REALLY motivated
    > Ivan Basso. I just finished watching the 2005 Giro and Tour DVD's and I
    > think that there's only two guys that could put up a genuine challenge
    > to Ivan - Valverde and a healthy Cunego. Plainly Cunego was as good as
    > everyone else but Basso in the Giro while suffering from
    > mononucleosis!
    >
    > I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    > high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
    > I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
    > Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
    > year's Giro.
    >
    > But if indeed Landis and Leipheimer are both talking about the Giro
    > this could change things. Surely these two guys have a significant
    > chance at hitting the podium in Milano. This year's Giro looks to have
    > significantly harder climbing than last year though a little less of
    > it. Floyd and Levi are climbers with the advantage of Levi being as
    > good as Simoni on hard climbs and a lot better time trialer.
    >
    > Cunego isn't a good time trialer at last look but then it's always hard
    > to use last year's results on this years's athletes with modern
    > training methods.


    Heh. He said `modern training methods'.

    > It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
    > the year like last year.


    It is more difficult to handicap the teams. Which riders
    will cough up a lung to keep their guy in position to win
    it all? Who will ride in the wind all day, keep the wolves
    at bay, and do it again? And why? Will it come down to a
    bargain between teams?

    It promises to be dramatic.

    --
    Michael Press
     
  14. On 17 Jan 2006 08:37:52 -0800, "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >I don't believe that Ullrich will be able to beat a REALLY motivated
    >Ivan Basso. I just finished watching the 2005 Giro and Tour DVD's and I
    >think that there's only two guys that could put up a genuine challenge
    >to Ivan - Valverde and a healthy Cunego. Plainly Cunego was as good as
    >everyone else but Basso in the Giro while suffering from
    >mononucleosis!
    >
    >I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    >high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
    >I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
    >Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
    >year's Giro.
    >
    >But if indeed Landis and Leipheimer are both talking about the Giro
    >this could change things. Surely these two guys have a significant
    >chance at hitting the podium in Milano. This year's Giro looks to have
    >significantly harder climbing than last year though a little less of
    >it. Floyd and Levi are climbers with the advantage of Levi being as
    >good as Simoni on hard climbs and a lot better time trialer.
    >
    >Cunego isn't a good time trialer at last look but then it's always hard
    >to use last year's results on this years's athletes with modern
    >training methods.
    >
    >It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
    >the year like last year.


    Not that it isn't anything that anyone reading Cycle Sport hasn't
    already read, but Landis sounded as if he wouldn't let the Giro
    threaten his performance in the Tour, so that sounds like an
    opportunistic Giro to me: ride within his limits and hope that some
    stupidity happens among the leaders that lets him make the podium or
    even win without redlining very often if at all.

    He also gave a partial endorsement to Jan - saying that sheer
    stupidity to the point of incomprensibility in TM tactics aside, Jan
    is the only one in his opinion that made his own time gains among the
    leaders, rather than riding on the wheel of Armstrong to separate from
    the others. IOW, he didn't seem to feel Basso has shown that he can
    take the Tour lead on his own resources. Seemed to ignore the Giro
    dynamics, but then, he didn't ride the Giro. Also seems to indicate
    that he doesn't include Vino among the expected leaders as he sure as
    heck made his own time gaps on the rest. Had to last year...

    Curtis L. Russell
    Odenton, MD (USA)
    Just someone on two wheels...
     
  15. amit

    amit Guest

    Tom Kunich wrote:

    > I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    > high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.


    i've heard that red herring, maybe on a few slices of panache will help
    with that.
     
  16. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    On subject 1: Landis isn't going to pass up a Giro win for a Tour
    placing and you can bet your roll on that.

    As for subject 2: If you watched the Giro you'd have seen Ivan blowing
    everyone's doors off and smiling while he did it. Whatever he caught or
    ate took away an easy Giro win for him. Since Floyd wasn't racing the
    Giro he didn't say anything about it.

    But one thing you'll notice about Floyd - he's pretty open about
    anything he's thinking. That doesn't make him right. But it lets you in
    on some inside ideas.

    I sort of discount Vino because so far he's shown himself to be too
    incendiary. If he can learn self control and get his team on his side
    he could be a threat. But that's likely to be a big step for him since
    he's naturally egotistical and pushes everyone around himself. That
    won't go down well with some riders on his own team.
     
  17. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    So what you're saying is that a double winner of the Giro did it all on
    luck.
     
  18. Tom Kunich schreef:

    >I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    >high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
    >I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
    >Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
    >year's Giro.
    >
    >It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
    >the year like last year.
    >

    *PAOLO SAVOLDELLI* could well see himself with a strong Disco team that
    thinks a good shot at a Giro repeat is better than a long shot at a Tour
    podium place or even a stage win. This year's Giro COULD become as
    boring as the last few Tours.

    Not predicting, just speculating.
     
  19. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Geraard Spergen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Tom Kunich schreef:
    >
    >>I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    >>high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
    >>I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
    >>Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
    >>year's Giro.
    >>
    >>It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
    >>the year like last year.
    >>

    > *PAOLO SAVOLDELLI* could well see himself with a strong Disco team that
    > thinks a good shot at a Giro repeat is better than a long shot at a Tour
    > podium place or even a stage win. This year's Giro COULD become as boring
    > as the last few Tours.
    >
    > Not predicting, just speculating.


    Paolo's riding looked so much like Lance that it seemed pretty plain to me
    that they had the same training regime and that Paolo still hadn't gotten
    all of his modifications down pat. You MAY be right that the Giro would
    become another Discovery cakewalk but I don't think that a healthy Cunego
    would allow that to happen. And you can't count Simoni out since he came SOO
    close last year.

    And the fact is that DeLuca showed that he has the drive. All it would have
    taken is three kilos less weight and he would have ridden with anyone there.
     
  20. mike

    mike Guest

    On 2006-01-18, Tom Kunich <[email protected]> wrote:
    > "Geraard Spergen" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> Tom Kunich schreef:
    >>
    >>>I have to say that Paulo Salvodelli looked to me like with some more
    >>>high cadence training that he would be a greater challenge in the Giro.
    >>>I don't think that Simoni will improve but surely Salvodelli will and a
    >>>Cunego as team leader will probably be the chief protagonist in this
    >>>year's Giro.
    >>>
    >>>It's possible that this year's Giro will again be the best racing of
    >>>the year like last year.
    >>>

    >> *PAOLO SAVOLDELLI* could well see himself with a strong Disco team that
    >> thinks a good shot at a Giro repeat is better than a long shot at a Tour
    >> podium place or even a stage win. This year's Giro COULD become as boring
    >> as the last few Tours.
    >>
    >> Not predicting, just speculating.

    >
    > Paolo's riding looked so much like Lance that it seemed pretty plain to me
    > that they had the same training regime and that Paolo still hadn't gotten
    > all of his modifications down pat. You MAY be right that the Giro would
    > become another Discovery cakewalk but I don't think that a healthy Cunego
    > would allow that to happen. And you can't count Simoni out since he came SOO
    > close last year.
    >
    > And the fact is that DeLuca showed that he has the drive. All it would have
    > taken is three kilos less weight and he would have ridden with anyone there.
    >
    >


    Has anyone heard of Jose' Rujano Guillen will be in the Giro this year.
    His climbing helped make last year's a classic
     
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