Jeanson vs. Samplonius title fight!

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by pedalchick, Jun 17, 2004.

  1. pedalchick

    pedalchick New Member

    Joined:
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    In Velonews letters to the editor, Anne S. slams GJ and USADA for her weak punishment following her skipped dope test.
    I got curious, went to the USOC website (www.usoc.com) and browsed the USADA news for other suspensions due to skipped dope tests.
    I found two swimmers, a sailor (?) and a mtn. biker who skipped their tests and got TWO YEARS. All four immediately retired.
    One road cyclist didn't know enough to check for randoms after elite natz where he got 38th or something, and apologized and got a 3 month suspension.

    So, what gives? GJ gets special treatment for being a star? It just doesn't seem right. She should at least get the minimum that the dude from FL got for his honest mistake.
    But, as Anne so eloquently points out in her letter, USADA doesn't always hand out suspensions in a consistent manner...
     
    Tags:


  2. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In Velonews letters to the editor, Anne S. slams GJ and
    > USADA for her weak punishment following her skipped dope
    > test. I got curious, went to the USOC website
    > (www.usoc.com) and browsed the USADA news for other
    > suspensions due to skipped dope tests. I found two
    > swimmers, a sailor (?) and a mtn. biker who skipped their
    > tests and got TWO YEARS. All four immediately retired. One
    > road cyclist didn't know enough to check for randoms after
    > elite natz where he got 38th or something, and apologized
    > and got a 3 month suspension.
    >
    > So, what gives? GJ gets special treatment for being a
    > star? It just doesn't seem right. She should at least get
    > the minimum that the dude from FL got for his honest
    > mistake. But, as Anne so eloquently points out in her
    > letter, USADA doesn't always hand out suspensions in a
    > consistent manner...

    Easy now, Jeanson is still (one) of the biggest hope and
    brightest stars to keep women's cycling exciting for North
    American. I am up for a one time forgiveness, as I also gave
    Luperini the benifit of the doubt with her drug fiasco. :)
    Personally from what I have heard from sources close to her,
    she does not and would not use drugs.
     
  3. Dave H

    Dave H Guest

    "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]...
    > > In Velonews letters to the editor, Anne S. slams GJ and
    > > USADA for her weak punishment following her skipped dope
    > > test. I got curious, went to the USOC website
    > > (www.usoc.com) and browsed the USADA news for other
    > > suspensions due to skipped dope tests. I found two
    > > swimmers, a sailor (?) and a mtn. biker who skipped
    > > their tests and got TWO YEARS. All four immediately
    > > retired. One road cyclist didn't know enough to check
    > > for randoms after elite natz where he got 38th or
    > > something, and apologized and got a 3 month suspension.
    > >
    > > So, what gives? GJ gets special treatment for being a
    > > star? It just doesn't seem right. She should at least
    > > get the minimum that the dude from FL got for his honest
    > > mistake. But, as Anne so eloquently points out in her
    > > letter, USADA doesn't always hand out suspensions in a
    > > consistent manner...
    >
    > Easy now, Jeanson is still (one) of the biggest hope and
    > brightest stars
    to
    > keep women's cycling exciting for North American. I am up
    > for a one time forgiveness, as I also gave Luperini the
    > benifit of the doubt with her
    drug
    > fiasco. :) Personally from what I have heard from sources
    > close to her,
    she
    > does not and would not use drugs.

    Give me an effin break, doesn't matter if she would or
    wouldn't, she missed a dope test , that is considered a
    positive in the rules, she should be dealt with just as if
    it is a positive test. Dave
     
  4. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Sierraman <[email protected]> wrote:
    > Personally from what I have heard from sources close to
    > her, she does not and would not use drugs.

    That 'close to her' source wouldn't be the doctor that got
    busted for passing out dope and then said he was just
    kidding about that admission of guilt stuff, was it?

    Just curious,

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  5. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Sierraman <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > Personally from what I have heard from sources close to
    > > her, she does not and would not use drugs.
    >
    > That 'close to her' source wouldn't be the doctor that got
    > busted for passing out dope and then said he was just
    > kidding about that admission of guilt stuff, was it?

    You and Davey provide excellent humor for the group!
    >
    > Just curious,
    >
    > Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  6. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:RtGdncBmTv7pxk_dRVn-
    > [email protected]
    > >
    > > "pedalchick" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > > message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > In Velonews letters to the editor, Anne S. slams GJ
    > > > and USADA for her weak punishment following her
    > > > skipped dope test. I got curious, went
    to
    > > > the USOC website (www.usoc.com) and browsed the USADA
    > > > news for other suspensions due to skipped dope tests.
    > > > I found two swimmers, a sailor (?) and a mtn. biker
    > > > who skipped their tests and got TWO YEARS. All
    four
    > > > immediately retired. One road cyclist didn't know
    > > > enough to check for randoms after elite natz where he
    > > > got 38th or something, and
    apologized
    > > > and got a 3 month suspension.
    > > >
    > > > So, what gives? GJ gets special treatment for being a
    > > > star? It just doesn't seem right. She should at least
    > > > get the minimum that the dude from FL got for his
    > > > honest mistake. But, as Anne so eloquently points out
    > > > in her letter, USADA doesn't always hand out
    > > > suspensions in a consistent manner...
    > >
    > > Easy now, Jeanson is still (one) of the biggest hope and
    > > brightest stars
    > to
    > > keep women's cycling exciting for North American. I am
    > > up for a one time forgiveness, as I also gave Luperini
    > > the benifit of the doubt with her
    > drug
    > > fiasco. :) Personally from what I have heard from
    > > sources close to her,
    > she
    > > does not and would not use drugs.
    >
    >
    > Give me an effin break, doesn't matter if she would or
    > wouldn't, she
    missed
    > a dope test , that is considered a positive in the rules,
    > she should be dealt with just as if it is a positive
    > test. Dave

    Looks like a one time forgiveness too on their part. Yes,
    looks like special treatment. Gee, I wonder why?
     
  7. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Sierraman" <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    > "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:RtGdncBmTv7pxk_dRVn-
    > > [email protected]
    > > >

    > > > Easy now, Jeanson is still (one) of the biggest hope
    > > > and brightest stars to keep women's cycling exciting
    > > > for North American. I am up for a one time
    > > > forgiveness, as I also gave Luperini the benifit of
    > > > the doubt with her drug fiasco. :) Personally from
    > > > what I have heard from sources close to her, she does
    > > > not and would not use drugs.
    > >
    > >
    > > Give me an effin break, doesn't matter if she would or
    > > wouldn't, she missed a dope test , that is considered a
    > > positive in the rules, she should be dealt with just as
    > > if it is a positive test. Dave
    >
    > Looks like a one time forgiveness too on their part. Yes,
    > looks like special treatment. Gee, I wonder why?

    So what exactly is your point with the "Gee, I wonder
    why?" And why does she need a "one-time forgiveness"?
    Yeah, GJ is a very good racer, exciting and all that. So
    what? Rules are rules, and (whether she meant to or not)
    she broke 'em. The reason there should be completely even-
    handed dispension of punishment for rules violation is so
    other riders will feel confident that if they are caught
    breaking the rules, they will be treated the same. If one
    person gets a "Get out of jail free" card, every other
    rider will want one, too. And why shouldn't they get one?
    Are the officials supposed to tell someone else that they
    aren't a big enough hope or bright enough star to get a
    slap on the wrist.

    --
    tanx, Howard

    "Copper will never be gold" Shellac

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  8. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    Sierraman <[email protected]> wrote:

    > You and Davey provide excellent humor for the group!

    I might be willing to cut her some slack if I had a thing
    for chicks that looked like teenage boys, but I don't. Maybe
    someone at the USADA does though. I can't see any legitimate
    reason for them to do this.

    This reminds me of the old Steve Martin skit, 'How to make a
    million dollars and not pay any taxes.' Remember the
    punchlines?

    "I FORGOT!!!"

    "WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!"

    Funny shit. A zillion dope tests and the only one who skips
    is the one with a doctor that gets busted for passing out
    dope. Funny shit.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  9. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "Howard Kveck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Sierraman"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Dave H" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > >
    > > > "Sierraman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:RtGdncBmTv7pxk_dRVn-
    > > > [email protected]
    > > > >
    >
    > > > > Easy now, Jeanson is still (one) of the biggest hope
    > > > > and brightest
    stars
    > > > > to keep women's cycling exciting for North American.
    > > > > I am up for a
    one
    > > > > time forgiveness, as I also gave Luperini the
    > > > > benifit of the doubt
    with
    > > > > her drug fiasco. :) Personally from what I have
    > > > > heard from sources close to her, she does not and
    > > > > would not use drugs.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > Give me an effin break, doesn't matter if she would or
    > > > wouldn't, she missed a dope test , that is considered
    > > > a positive in the rules, she should be dealt with just
    > > > as if it is a positive test. Dave
    > >
    > > Looks like a one time forgiveness too on their part.
    > > Yes, looks like
    special
    > > treatment. Gee, I wonder why?
    >
    > So what exactly is your point with the "Gee, I wonder
    > why?"

    I don't have a point Howie, but I think I know why.

    And why does
    > she need a "one-time forgiveness"?

    She doesn't but she got it.

    Yeah, GJ is a very good racer, exciting
    > and all that. So what?

    Armstrong is great too, so what? GJ is one of the best women
    so you can speculate on why she got a break. I have my own
    opinion on why.

    Rules are rules, and (whether she meant to or not)
    > she broke 'em. The reason there should be completely
    > even-handed
    dispension
    > of punishment for rules violation is so other riders will
    > feel confident that if they are caught breaking the rules,
    > they will be treated the same.

    Agreed.

    > If one person gets a "Get out of jail free" card, every
    > other rider will want one, too. And why shouldn't they
    > get one?

    It's not always fair, but it should be.

    Are the officials supposed
    > to tell someone else that they aren't a big enough hope or
    > bright enough star to get a slap on the wrist.

    Sometimes stars get breaks that those with less talent or
    notability do not. I won't debate you on what is fair for
    one should be fair for all. I am not the one who let her off
    the hook, but as a fan I forgive her (once). Fool me once,
    shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. Personally as a
    fan, on the second offense I would lose faith in the rider.
    As for the first offense, if it's not proven absolutely like
    in Luperini's case, then I can forgive that once since drugs
    scandels are always coming and going. As a fan, I'm not
    interested in drug scandels for the most part. I just enjoy
    racing. I wouldn't want to know who everyone was who are
    taking drugs, I might lose interest in the sport. I'll don't
    think the sport should be over regulated either .
    > --
    > tanx, Howard
    >
    > "Copper will never be gold" Shellac
    >
    > remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
  10. Sierraman

    Sierraman Guest

    "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Sierraman <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > You and Davey provide excellent humor for the group!
    >
    > I might be willing to cut her some slack if I had a thing
    > for chicks that looked like teenage boys, but I don't.

    She does?

    Maybe
    > someone at the USADA does though. I can't see any
    > legitimate reason for them to do this.
    >
    > This reminds me of the old Steve Martin skit, 'How to make
    > a million dollars and not pay any taxes.' Remember the
    > punchlines?
    >
    > "I FORGOT!!!"
    >
    > "WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!"
    >
    > Funny shit. A zillion dope tests and the only one who
    > skips is the one with a doctor that gets busted for
    > passing out dope. Funny shit.
    >
    > Bob Schwartz [email protected]

    No doubt she was lucky this time. Personally I am glad she
    is still in the running, but if it happens again, I will
    lose faith in the so called chick that looks like a
    teenage boy.
     
  11. Gwhite

    Gwhite Guest

    > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > > "I FORGOT!!!"
    > >
    > > "WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!"
    > >
    > > Funny shit.... Funny shit.

    Indeed. I'll bet Lafferty is an expert on the stupidity
    defense, maybe he can weigh in. It worked for Reagan and
    Lay, why not GJ?

    Of course she gets special treatment for being a star.
     
  12. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "gwhite" <[email protected]_ti.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_ti.com...
    >
    >
    >
    > > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > > "I FORGOT!!!"
    > > >
    > > > "WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!"
    > > >
    > > > Funny shit.... Funny shit.
    >
    > Indeed. I'll bet Lafferty is an expert on the stupidity
    > defense, maybe he
    can weigh in. It worked
    > for Reagan and Lay, why not GJ?
    >
    > Of course she gets special treatment for being a star.

    The stupidity defense was actually used by an attorney
    charged criminally with tax fraud. The attorney testified in
    his own behalf at trial that IRS regulations were so complex
    that even he, a trained non-tax attorney, could not
    understand them to the point where he could not form a
    criminal intent to commit fraud. IIRC, he referred to it as
    the Stupidity Defense in his summation to the jury. The jury
    verdict was not guilty. I think the trial took place in the
    DC District.

    In retrospect, one could argue that Reagan's was not the
    stupidity defense, but the early Altzheimer's onset defense.
     
  13. pedalchick

    pedalchick New Member

    Joined:
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    Now now, let's keep this on topic - there's no need to bust on GJ because of the way she looks. I understand USADA's ruling somewhat because she was tested that morning - but what better time to take dope than right after a dope test? I mean, what are the chances that you'll have to have another test right away?
    USADA needs to be able to use their judgement and not apply an automatic 2-year suspension to everyone that commits a foul, but in this case, I think there is precedent for at least a minimal suspension. Showing up and peeing in the cup is part of an athlete's duty. It's embarrassing, it's time consuming, and it's kind of gross, but you just have to do it and not whine.
     
  14. Bob Schwartz

    Bob Schwartz Guest

    You know, what this does is put the ball in the Canadian's
    court regarding Jeanson's participation in Athens. Maybe
    that's what is going on. Maybe they weren't willing to
    shitcan another country's star rider for the Olympics.

    The CCA can (and IMHO should) take appropriate action on
    this. But there is no easy way out like if the USADA had
    done it for them.

    I'm grasping at straws here, I know that. But that's the
    best straw I can come up with for blowing off the rules.

    Bob Schwartz [email protected]
     
  15. Bob Schwartz <[email protected]> wrote:
    > You know, what this does is put the ball in the Canadian's
    > court regarding Jeanson's participation in Athens. Maybe
    > that's what is going on. Maybe they weren't willing to
    > shitcan another country's star rider for the Olympics.

    > The CCA can (and IMHO should) take appropriate action on
    > this. But there is no easy way out like if the USADA had
    > done it for them.

    > I'm grasping at straws here, I know that. But that's the
    > best straw I can come up with for blowing off the rules.

    That is an interesting theory. I was wondering why they
    would cut GJ slack since she isn't "their" rider. It's not
    like the Neben case where one can allege favoritism based on
    national squad, getting the rider on the Olympic team, or
    other such motives.

    My theory is that GJ is so used to winning she didn't
    realize that you can get randomed and called for a post-
    race test even if you finish 38th or so. (Before anyone
    flames me, that's a joke - even winners are supposed to
    know the rules.)
     
  16. Gwhite

    Gwhite Guest

    "B. Lafferty" wrote:
    >
    > "gwhite" <[email protected]_ti.com> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]_ti.com...
    > >
    > >
    > >
    > > > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >
    > > > > "I FORGOT!!!"
    > > > >
    > > > > "WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!"
    > > > >
    > > > > Funny shit.... Funny shit.
    > >
    > > Indeed. I'll bet Lafferty is an expert on the stupidity
    > > defense, maybe he
    > can weigh in. It worked
    > > for Reagan and Lay, why not GJ?
    > >
    > > Of course she gets special treatment for being a star.
    >
    > The stupidity defense was actually used by an attorney
    > charged criminally with tax fraud. The attorney testified
    > in his own behalf at trial that IRS regulations were so
    > complex that even he, a trained non-tax attorney, could
    > not understand them to the point where he could not form a
    > criminal intent to commit fraud. IIRC, he referred to it
    > as the Stupidity Defense in his summation to the jury. The
    > jury verdict was not guilty. I think the trial took place
    > in the DC District.

    Amusing story, thanks. I wish you would have told me before
    I paid my taxes. Given that, maybe BS is right, you really
    are an asshole. ;-)

    > In retrospect, one could argue that Reagan's was not the
    > stupidity defense, but the early Altzheimer's onset
    > defense.

    The poor guy.
     
  17. B. Lafferty

    B. Lafferty Guest

    "gwhite" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > "B. Lafferty" wrote:
    > >
    > > "gwhite" <[email protected]_ti.com> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]_ti.com...
    > > >
    > > >
    > > >
    > > > > "Bob Schwartz" <[email protected]> wrote in
    > > > > message
    > > >
    > > > > > "I FORGOT!!!"
    > > > > >
    > > > > > "WELL EXCUUUUUUUUUSE ME!!!!!!!"
    > > > > >
    > > > > > Funny shit.... Funny shit.
    > > >
    > > > Indeed. I'll bet Lafferty is an expert on the
    > > > stupidity defense,
    maybe he
    > > can weigh in. It worked
    > > > for Reagan and Lay, why not GJ?
    > > >
    > > > Of course she gets special treatment for being a star.
    > >
    > > The stupidity defense was actually used by an attorney
    > > charged
    criminally
    > > with tax fraud. The attorney testified in his own behalf
    > > at trial that
    IRS
    > > regulations were so complex that even he, a trained non-
    > > tax attorney,
    could
    > > not understand them to the point where he could not form
    > > a criminal
    intent
    > > to commit fraud. IIRC, he referred to it as the
    > > Stupidity Defense in
    his
    > > summation to the jury. The jury verdict was not guilty.
    > > I think the
    trial
    > > took place in the DC District.
    >
    > Amusing story, thanks. I wish you would have told me
    > before I paid my
    taxes. Given that, maybe BS
    > is right, you really are an asshole. ;-)
    >
    > > In retrospect, one could argue that Reagan's was not the
    > > stupidity
    defense,
    > > but the early Altzheimer's onset defense.
    >
    > The poor guy.

    The poor(er) country.
     
  18. Patrick

    Patrick Guest

    > My theory is that GJ is so used to winning she didn't
    > realize that you can get randomed and called for a post-
    > race test even if you finish 38th or so. (Before anyone
    > flames me, that's a joke - even winners are supposed to
    > know the rules.)

    mmmm

    how many uci or national elite level events has she
    participated in??? probably more then 20. if not more then
    30 (national championship events are also supposed to be run
    under UCI regs)

    so, the burden of knowledge for random testing is not a
    surprise here. If she had never been to an elite event
    (where random testing is required or at the very least, is
    common) I might be even inclined to give her a partial pass,
    but her lack of attendance is un-excusable.

    Also, I would venture a guess that she has been called for
    random testing even when she was not on the podium. Given
    the number of international and elite events that she has
    done, I think it would be difficult for her not to have been
    in this position (random test when not on the podium)
    before. Any freak fans out there have this stuff (Her entry
    into UCI and world level elite - and junior!) events.

    I agree that the US passed on nuking her from the olympics
    and that the CCA should grow some bigger brass ovaries (see
    AS comments for example of someone with some moxie and is
    willing to put it out there..) duh. both USA and CCA dropped
    their chains on this one! Makes a mockery of the system.

    also, memo to marion - hire GJ's lawyer (s)he is pretty darn
    good at getting people out of drug trouble.

    just my 2 cents.

    econpatrick
     
  19. Cipo_chick

    Cipo_chick Guest

    Here is a photo of Jeanson suffering up the finishing climb
    in the Fleche Wallone race. She was suffering like a dog up
    that last climb and didn't finish wery high up as I recall.
    If she did take drugs after she had already been tested that
    morning, it is fairly obvious that she either took the wrong
    kind or not enough. She didn't ride very well against the
    Europeans.

    http://www.clintonphoto.com/subjects/event%20photos/fw04/fw-
    w04/pages/fwfem_24.htm


    [email protected] (patrick) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > My theory is that GJ is so used to winning she didn't
    > > realize that you can get randomed and called for a post-
    > > race test even if you finish 38th or so. (Before anyone
    > > flames me, that's a joke - even winners are supposed to
    > > know the rules.)
    >
    >
    >
    > mmmm
    >
    > how many uci or national elite level events has she
    > participated in??? probably more then 20. if not more then
    > 30 (national championship events are also supposed to be
    > run under UCI regs)
    >
    > so, the burden of knowledge for random testing is not a
    > surprise here. If she had never been to an elite event
    > (where random testing is required or at the very least, is
    > common) I might be even inclined to give her a partial
    > pass, but her lack of attendance is un-excusable.
    >
    > Also, I would venture a guess that she has been called
    > for random testing even when she was not on the podium.
    > Given the number of international and elite events that
    > she has done, I think it would be difficult for her not
    > to have been in this position (random test when not on
    > the podium) before. Any freak fans out there have this
    > stuff (Her entry into UCI and world level elite - and
    > junior!) events.
    >
    > I agree that the US passed on nuking her from the olympics
    > and that the CCA should grow some bigger brass ovaries
    > (see AS comments for example of someone with some moxie
    > and is willing to put it out there..) duh. both USA and
    > CCA dropped their chains on this one! Makes a mockery of
    > the system.
    >
    >
    > also, memo to marion - hire GJ's lawyer (s)he is pretty
    > darn good at getting people out of drug trouble.
    >
    >
    > just my 2 cents.
    >
    > econpatrick
     
  20. Kyle Legate

    Kyle Legate Guest

    cipo_chick wrote:
    > Here is a photo of Jeanson suffering up the finishing
    > climb in the Fleche Wallone race. She was suffering like a
    > dog up that last climb and didn't finish wery high up as I
    > recall. If she did take drugs after she had already been
    > tested that morning, it is fairly obvious that she either
    > took the wrong kind or not enough. She didn't ride very
    > well against the Europeans.
    >
    >
    http://www.clintonphoto.com/subjects/event%20photos/fw04/fw-
    w04/pages/fwfem_24.htm
    >
    $20 for a 5x7 of that? It had better come with a chunky,
    ornate wooden frame for that price.
     
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