Jim vs Ed & riding a bent again after a long layoff

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Jim McNamara, Nov 13, 2003.

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  1. Jim McNamara

    Jim McNamara Guest

    Hi,

    At the risk of incurring the wrath of the readership, I will chance commenting on two topics that
    have been bugging me ever since I failed to address them during my previous flame war with Ed Gin.
    Call it unfinished business ... things left unsaid. For those of you that followed the various
    threads, you will understand. For those of you that did not, ignore this unless you care to go
    back and read all that stuff (not recommended). With that said, I'll try to be brief. Here is what
    went unsaid.

    The censor of the Monkey Island Forum, Ed Gin, implied that he didn't expect me to make any cycling
    related post on BROL that would prove worthwhile. I rarely pay BROL a visit. Be that as it may
    though, in the past, I informed Ed that I wasn't put on God's green earth to either live up to his
    whimsical expectations, to dance to his music or to be judged by him. Ed is incapable of making an
    objective, unprejudiced, unbiased evaluation of a post from someone he vehemently disdains, namely
    me. How can a man who deleted the posts I made at Monkey Island (including innocuous, informational
    ones) delude himself into believing that he is impartial and qualified to stand in judgment of me or
    anything I do? What Ed thinks of me and whatever I've done in the past or whatever I will do in the
    future, is of no consequence because Ed Gin is of no consequence. In the Ed vs. Jim, posts I was
    forthcoming regarding how I feel about Ed. Deceitful hypocrite that he has proven himself to be, Ed
    claims that he harbors no ill-will toward me and even pretends to wish me well. This is not
    corroborated by his countless vitriolic posts. Ed's numerous virulent (including his sock-puppet
    pseudo) posts attest to his genuine feelings in utter contradiction of his pretence of feigned
    sincerity and tenderheartedness. Ed's asseverations, like Ed, are a sham. OK, I feel much, much
    better now that I got that out of my system. Unfinished business ... now finished ... time to move
    on. No flames please.

    On the lighter side, now for some mandatory HPV content. I hadn't done a ride since October 31st.
    Early in the season, when I got flat on my P38, I jumped on my upright and was still riding and
    enjoying it some 4000 plus miles later. Well, yesterday I finally fixed the flat on my recumbent and
    went out for a spin. I felt surprising comfortable on my P38, almost like I hadn't even been off it
    for any length of time, except I was quickly reminded of just how differently the set of leg muscles
    are that come into play when riding a recumbent. Yesterday's ride proved interesting. It was warm
    enough at 61 degrees, but the wind was horrendous and it ushered in a cold front. When I felt the
    wind pick up and the colder air start to roll in, I called the ride off after only 10 miles. By
    then, the wind was around 40 mph and gusty. Later on it reached 60 mph. Anyone who rode yesterday in
    the Midwest can attest to the challenge that the wind presented. It was not unique the to the "Windy
    City". I am anxious to put in a few more miles on my P38 since I have little more than 700 miles on
    it this year, but I prefer really not to ride in the cold, so it all depends on when winter arrives
    to stay. Today might just reach 40 degrees F. with winds 25-37 and gusts approaching 40 mph. I think
    I'll take a pass on today.

    Jim McNamara
     
    Tags:


  2. Ninja

    Ninja Guest

    [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hi,
    >
    > At the risk of incurring the wrath of the readership, I will chance commenting on two topics that
    > have been bugging me ever since I failed to address them during my previous flame war with Ed Gin.
    > Call it unfinished business ... things left unsaid. For those of you that followed the various
    > threads, you will understand. For those of you that did not, ignore this unless you care to go
    > back and read all that stuff (not recommended). With that said, I'll try to be brief. Here is what
    > went unsaid.

    People from Forest Glen are can be so verbose.

    <====]==+ Ninja +==[====
     
  3. Ed Gin Sucks

    Ed Gin Sucks Guest

    that guy ed really bites the big one. i really wonder what he does for a living. if he got paid for
    giving advice he should be fired. i would not want to work with him.

    Jerry
     
  4. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>... [...]
    > On the lighter side, now for some mandatory HPV content. I hadn't done a ride since October 31st.
    > Early in the season, when I got flat on my P38, I jumped on my upright and was still riding and
    > enjoying it some 4000 plus miles later. Well, yesterday I finally fixed the flat on my recumbent
    > and went out for a spin. I felt surprising comfortable on my P38, almost like I hadn't even been
    > off it for any length of time, except I was quickly reminded of just how differently the set of
    > leg muscles are that come into play when riding a recumbent. Yesterday's ride proved interesting.
    > It was warm enough at 61 degrees, but the wind was horrendous and it ushered in a cold front. When
    > I felt the wind pick up and the colder air start to roll in, I called the ride off after only 10
    > miles. By then, the wind was around 40 mph and gusty. Later on it reached 60 mph. Anyone who rode
    > yesterday in the Midwest can attest to the challenge that the wind presented. It was not unique
    > the to the "Windy City". I am anxious to put in a few more miles on my P38 since I have little
    > more than 700 miles on it this year, but I prefer really not to ride in the cold, so it all
    > depends on when winter arrives to stay. Today might just reach 40 degrees F. with winds 25-37 and
    > gusts approaching 40 mph. I think I'll take a pass on today.
    >
    > Jim McNamara

    Jim, your tale of battling the wind is an everyday occurrence here in SW Minnesota. It is always
    blowing between 15 - 25 mph year around. The few days when it is not blowing it is downright eerie.
    I have spent the last 20 years cursing the wind. It detracts enormously from pleasant cycling. I
    believe I would rather put up with a lot of hills than the constant and eternal wind. It is enough
    to drive a person crazy. I normally stay in town when the wind is howling as it is just too
    unpleasant to go out into the country side and have to face that
    g.d. wind.

    I have read in geography books that the aboriginal inhabitants of Tierra Del Fuego on the southern
    extremity of South America (Chile - Argentina) were literally driven insane by the constant powerful
    winds that blew there year around. I do not find this hard to understand at all.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  5. Some days living in the FL Keys I felt if the damn wind didn't stop right NOW I'd go nuts. People
    asked me why I rode a 21 speed bike in flat country. Hell, when I "flew" southwest at 25 mph I was
    barely pedaling. BUT when I returned to the northeast I was often in granny gear.

    --
    Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [...]
    > > On the lighter side, now for some mandatory HPV content. I hadn't done a ride since October
    > > 31st. Early in the season, when I got flat on my P38, I jumped on my upright and was still
    > > riding and enjoying it some 4000 plus miles later. Well, yesterday I finally fixed the flat on
    > > my recumbent and went out for a spin. I felt surprising comfortable on my P38, almost like I
    > > hadn't even been off it for any length of time, except I was quickly reminded of just how
    > > differently the set of leg muscles are that come into play when riding a recumbent. Yesterday's
    > > ride proved interesting. It was warm enough at 61 degrees, but the wind was horrendous and it
    > > ushered in a cold front. When I felt the wind pick up and the colder air start to roll in, I
    > > called the ride off after only 10 miles. By then, the wind was around 40 mph and gusty. Later on
    > > it reached 60 mph. Anyone who rode yesterday in the Midwest can attest to the challenge that the
    > > wind presented. It was not unique the to the "Windy City". I am anxious to put in a few more
    > > miles on my P38 since I have little more than 700 miles on it this year, but I prefer really not
    > > to ride in the cold, so it all depends on when winter arrives to stay. Today might just reach 40
    > > degrees F. with winds 25-37 and gusts approaching 40 mph. I think I'll take a pass on today.
    > >
    > > Jim McNamara
    >
    >
    > Jim, your tale of battling the wind is an everyday occurrence here in SW Minnesota. It is always
    > blowing between 15 - 25 mph year around. The few days when it is not blowing it is downright
    > eerie. I have spent the last 20 years cursing the wind. It detracts enormously from pleasant
    > cycling. I believe I would rather put up with a lot of hills than the constant and eternal wind.
    > It is enough to drive a person crazy. I normally stay in town when the wind is howling as it is
    > just too unpleasant to go out into the country side and have to face that
    > g.d. wind.
    >
    > I have read in geography books that the aboriginal inhabitants of Tierra Del Fuego on the southern
    > extremity of South America (Chile - Argentina) were literally driven insane by the constant
    > powerful winds that blew there year around. I do not find this hard to understand at all.
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  6. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Edward Dolan wrote:
    > ... Jim, your tale of battling the wind is an everyday occurrence here in SW Minnesota. It is
    > always blowing between 15 - 25 mph year around. The few days when it is not blowing it is
    > downright eerie. I have spent the last 20 years cursing the wind. It detracts enormously from
    > pleasant cycling. I believe I would rather put up with a lot of hills than the constant and
    > eternal wind. It is enough to drive a person crazy. I normally stay in town when the wind is
    > howling as it is just too unpleasant to go out into the country side and have to face that
    > g.d. wind.

    A used RANS Gemini [1] would be a solution - let the wind be your friend.

    [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/images/25c_8.jpg>

    Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
     
  7. Jim McNamara

    Jim McNamara Guest

    Hi Ed,

    Well they call Chicago the "Windy City", but for different reasons than the wind here. It is common
    for us to experience pretty much the same windy conditions that you do in Minnesota, especialy in
    the Fall of the year. When it gets to 30 mph plus and gusty, riding is just not fun anymore. At 40
    mph it becomes intollerable, but a bit after I called it quits, the winds reached 60 mph. I've never
    ridden in winds over 50 mph and at 50 mph, ridiing really is a struggle. I did a 60 mile ride once
    in winds topping 40 mph. Needless to say it was a trying ride, but I got a good workout.

    Jim McNamara

    [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...

    > Jim, your tale of battling the wind is an everyday occurrence here in SW Minnesota. It is always
    > blowing between 15 - 25 mph year around. The few days when it is not blowing it is downright
    > eerie. I have spent the last 20 years cursing the wind. It detracts enormously from pleasant
    > cycling. I believe I would rather put up with a lot of hills than the constant and eternal wind.
    > It is enough to drive a person crazy. I normally stay in town when the wind is howling as it is
    > just too unpleasant to go out into the country side and have to face that
    > g.d. wind.
    >
    > I have read in geography books that the aboriginal inhabitants of Tierra Del Fuego on the southern
    > extremity of South America (Chile - Argentina) were literally driven insane by the constant
    > powerful winds that blew there year around. I do not find this hard to understand at all.
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  8. Gary Mc

    Gary Mc Guest

    Bob,

    I lived in Bremerhaven, Germany for about a year. The wind usually had the flag out the window of my
    office horizontal most days. I rode an upright then and got the full brunt of the wind. I made sure
    that I always rode upwind on the first half of a ride. One particular day I remember turning back
    towards home. With a strong wind at my back I easily got up to 30 mph and found myself riding along
    in a eerie silence as my speed pretty much matched that of the wind. I thought at time that must be
    what it was like to be Greg LeMond, except of course he would have been doing 40+ in the same
    conditions.

    Gary McCarty, Salt Lake City

    "Robert Siegel" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Some days living in the FL Keys I felt if the damn wind didn't stop right NOW I'd go nuts. People
    > asked me why I rode a 21 speed bike in flat country. Hell, when I "flew" southwest at 25 mph I was
    > barely pedaling. BUT when I returned to the northeast I was often in granny gear.
     
  9. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Edward Dolan wrote:
    > > ... Jim, your tale of battling the wind is an everyday occurrence here in SW Minnesota. It is
    > > always blowing between 15 - 25 mph year around. The few days when it is not blowing it is
    > > downright eerie. I have spent the last 20 years cursing the wind. It detracts enormously from
    > > pleasant cycling. I believe I would rather put up with a lot of hills than the constant and
    > > eternal wind. It is enough to drive a person crazy. I normally stay in town when the wind is
    > > howling as it is just too unpleasant to go out into the country side and have to face that
    > > g.d. wind.
    >
    > A used RANS Gemini [1] would be a solution - let the wind be your friend.
    >
    > [1] <http://www.ransbikes.com/images/25c_8.jpg>
    >
    > Tom Sherman - Planet Earth

    I am well acquainted with the early history of RANS as a sail trike manufacturer. I think the only
    place those contraptions would ever work would be a dried lake bed out in the Mojave Desert of
    California or the Great Salt Lake Flats of Utah. Unfortunately, for the rest of us the wind is our
    eternal enemy. The few days when there is not a wind here in SW Minnesota I fly on my recumbents and
    think I am in heaven. All wind when you are on a bicycle feels essentially like some kind of
    headwind unless you have got it exactly in your tail. I could die happy if there was never any wind
    again in my life. But it is my understanding that wind is quite necessary in order to equalize the
    temperatures between the poles and the equator.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  10. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > Hi Ed,
    >
    > Well they call Chicago the "Windy City", but for different reasons than the wind here. It is
    > common for us to experience pretty much the same windy conditions that you do in Minnesota,
    > especially in the Fall of the year. When it gets to 30 mph plus and gusty, riding is just not fun
    > anymore. At 40 mph it becomes intolerable, but a bit after I called it quits, the winds reached 60
    > mph. I've never ridden in winds over 50 mph and at 50 mph, riding really is a struggle. I did a 60
    > mile ride once in winds topping 40 mph. Needless to say it was a trying ride, but I got a good
    > workout.

    Jim, anything over 25 mph and I refuse to go out anymore. I am fed up with constantly having to
    fight the wind. Anyone who can ride in winds up to 40 mph has my undying respect.

    I once did a week long tour in Nebraska (BRAN) and the first day out it was incredibly windy.
    Everyone was going about 8 mph and they all said it was the slowest they had ever gone in their
    lives. It just seemed like another normal cycling day to me and I was used to going 8 mph. But
    frankly, I am getting tired of it. I will no longer go out of town if the wind is above 15 mph. I am
    not interested in getting "workouts"; I cycle strictly for the enjoyment of it.

    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  11. Jim McNamara

    Jim McNamara Guest

    Hi Ed,

    I recall reading in both Bicycle Guide and Bicycling Magazine an explanataion about why this A wind
    not directly at one's back is, at a given speed, pereceived as being "in our face", I just don't
    recall the the reason. This much I remember though. Rarely is wind squarely at our backs and as our
    speed increases the degree of the angle of the wind at our backs becomes more a factor such that a
    major deviation is perceived sooner than a minor deviation. It seems strange that any wind ta our
    backs could be percieved as "in our face" regardless of our speed, but that's physics for you. I
    just wish I could recall the explanation of it all. As I recall it was a rather complicated
    explanation that I just did not commit to memory. Time to do some internet research.

    Jim McNamara

    [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > I am well acquainted with the early history of RANS as a sail trike manufacturer. I think the only
    > place those contraptions would ever work would be a dried lake bed out in the Mojave Desert of
    > California or the Great Salt Lake Flats of Utah. Unfortunately, for the rest of us the wind is our
    > eternal enemy. The few days when there is not a wind here in SW Minnesota I fly on my recumbents
    > and think I am in heaven. All wind when you are on a bicycle feels essentially like some kind of
    > headwind unless you have got it exactly in your tail. I could die happy if there was never any
    > wind again in my life. But it is my understanding that wind is quite necessary in order to
    > equalize the temperatures between the poles and the equator.
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  12. Jim McNamara

    Jim McNamara Guest

    Hi,

    I just made a few corrections to my original post (below) that was pretty poor. I guess I was tired
    and didn't bother to proof read. What I was tring to communicate is that the time when wind is
    perceived as being in one's face is in direct proportion to the increase in angle from the
    perpendicular to an imaginary line across one's back. The more the angle departs (increases or
    decreases from 90 degrees), the sooner the wind is perceived in relation to our speed. As another
    poster reported, on those rare occasions when the wind is really directly at our backs, we can
    experience a stange phenomena of errie silence as our speed mathes that of the wind. It is as if one
    was riding nearly effortlessly in a vacuum. On such days, one can be lured into a false sense of
    strength and fitness. Then, when the bike is turned around, reality sets in and we are immediately
    reminded that mother nature played a hand in our deception and that hand is now planted squarely in
    our face and its payback time.

    Jim McNamara

    [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > Hi Ed,
    >
    > I recall reading in both Bicycle Guide and Bicycling Magazine an explanataion about why a wind not
    > directly at one's back is, at a given speed, pereceived as being "in on's face", I just don't
    > recall the reason. This much I remember though. Rarely is the wind squarely at our backs and as
    > our speed increases the degree of the angle of the wind at our backs becomes more of a factor such
    > that a major deviation is perceived sooner than a minor deviation. It seems strange that any wind
    > at one's backs could be percieved as "in one's face" regardless of one's speed, but that's physics
    > for you. I just wish I could recall the explanation of it all. As I recall it was a rather
    > complicated explanation that I just didn't commit to memory. Time to do some internet research.
    >
    > Jim McNamara
    >
    > [email protected] (Edward Dolan) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    > > Tom Sherman <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > I am well acquainted with the early history of RANS as a sail trike manufacturer. I think the
    > > only place those contraptions would ever work would be a dried lake bed out in the Mojave Desert
    > > of California or the Great Salt Lake Flats of Utah. Unfortunately, for the rest of us the wind
    > > is our eternal enemy. The few days when there is not a wind here in SW Minnesota I fly on my
    > > recumbents and think I am in heaven. All wind when you are on a bicycle feels essentially like
    > > some kind of headwind unless you have got it exactly in your tail. I could die happy if there
    > > was never any wind again in my life. But it is my understanding that wind is quite necessary in
    > > order to equalize the temperatures between the poles and the equator.
    > >
    > > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  13. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...

    > Hi,
    >
    > I just made a few corrections to my original post (below) that was pretty poor. I guess I was
    > tired and didn't bother to proof read. What I was trying to communicate is that the time when wind
    > is perceived as being in one's face is in direct proportion to the increase in angle from the
    > perpendicular to an imaginary line across one's back. The more the angle departs (increases or
    > decreases from 90 degrees), the sooner the wind is perceived in relation to our speed. As another
    > poster reported, on those rare occasions when the wind is really directly at our backs, we can
    > experience a strange phenomena of eerie silence as our speed matches that of the wind. It is as if
    > one was riding nearly effortlessly in a vacuum. On such days, one can be lured into a false sense
    > of strength and fitness. Then, when the bike is turned around, reality sets in and we are
    > immediately reminded that mother nature played a hand in our deception and that hand is now
    > planted squarely in our face and its payback time.
    >
    > Jim McNamara

    Jim, that is as good an explanation as I have ever read. By and large, technical explanations are
    wasted on me. But still I know exactly what you mean.

    The phenomenon of an exact tailwind that matches your speed is one of the most eerie sensations
    possible. It is very rare. I had this experience once in the middle of a Tour De Wyoming ride though
    a slightly rolling landscape. I was flying with no effort at all. And it seemed like I was going
    uphill because of the lay of the road in relationship to the lay of the surrounding landscape. We
    all thought we had entered the twilight zone. Alas, it came to an abrupt end all too soon.

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  14. I experienced that in the FL Keys a number of times due to the way the overseas highway runs WSW,
    which sometimes is exactly the same direction as the prevailing wind. I pedaled along at about 18-20
    mph, which was wind speed. It felt like effortless flying.

    --
    Gatorized Bob Siegel in Gainesville FL "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > [email protected] (Jim McNamara) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Hi,
    > >
    > > I just made a few corrections to my original post (below) that was pretty poor. I guess I was
    > > tired and didn't bother to proof read. What I was trying to communicate is that the time when
    > > wind is perceived as being in one's face is in direct proportion to the increase in angle from
    > > the perpendicular to an imaginary line across one's back. The more the angle departs (increases
    > > or decreases from 90 degrees), the sooner the wind is perceived in relation to our speed. As
    > > another poster reported, on those rare occasions when the wind is really directly at our backs,
    > > we can experience a strange phenomena of eerie silence as our speed matches that of the wind. It
    > > is as if one was riding nearly effortlessly in a vacuum. On such days, one can be lured into a
    > > false sense of strength and fitness. Then, when the bike is turned around, reality sets in and
    > > we are immediately reminded that mother nature played a hand in our deception and that hand is
    > > now planted squarely in our face and its payback time.
    > >
    > > Jim McNamara
    >
    > Jim, that is as good an explanation as I have ever read. By and large, technical explanations are
    > wasted on me. But still I know exactly what you mean.
    >
    > The phenomenon of an exact tailwind that matches your speed is one of the most eerie sensations
    > possible. It is very rare. I had this experience once in the middle of a Tour De Wyoming ride
    > though a slightly rolling landscape. I was flying with no effort at all. And it seemed like I was
    > going uphill because of the lay of the road in relationship to the lay of the surrounding
    > landscape. We all thought we had entered the twilight zone. Alas, it came to an abrupt end all
    > too soon.
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  15. Tom Sherman

    Tom Sherman Guest

    Edward Dolan wrote:
    > ... All wind when you are on a bicycle feels essentially like some kind of headwind unless you
    > have got it exactly in your tail....

    I recall at least two occasions when I was riding with just a front fairing [1], I was able to sail
    at close to 20-mph without pedaling, and I could even get started from a stop without pedaling. In
    both cases I was riding West to East, and the wind was coming from a SSW direction.

    [1] Zzipper Road on a RANS "Wavewind" and Mueller Windwrap on a RANS Rocket.

    Tom Sherman - Planet Earth
     
  16. Tom Sherman wrote:

    > I recall at least two occasions when I was riding with just a front fairing [1], I was able to
    > sail at close to 20-mph without pedaling, and I could even get started from a stop without
    > pedaling. In both cases I was riding West to East, and the wind was coming from a SSW direction.

    Paul Davies reported (BHPC Newsletter, Issue 58, Autumn 1999)):

    "On 3 Tuesdays last month, according to my meter, it was blowing a rather windy 20+ mph (that's
    moderate to fresh, force 4/5 for Radio 4 listeners), and being so open, Castle Combe is the ideal
    place to practice HPV sailing. In summer however, due mainly to the convection that takes place, the
    wind will be gusty and can vary considerably (5-25 mph). On such a day it is possible to sail about
    half the circuit. I can't get going from a standstill, but if I ride into the area where the wind is
    at the best angle, I can freewheel up to a mile at speeds around 20-25 mph. I've done this many
    times in the past on my trike, but the bike does it better.( This no doubt explains some of Paul's
    unorthodox cornering lines - Ed.)"

    On one occasion in 1985, I and my heavily-laden upright touring bike were spun out in top gear for
    about ten miles down the N7 in the Rhone valley with the Mistral lending a hand. Since top gear on
    that bike was 87", this was likely around 23 mph, and the wind was overtaking me. Turning off the
    main road rather spoiled the effect...

    Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
    ===========================================================
    Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
    http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
    ===========================================================
     
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