Jobst was Re: Sheldon

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Tim Bernard, May 1, 2003.

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  1. Tim Bernard

    Tim Bernard Guest

    The hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > anonymous writes:
    >
    > > Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of respect
    > > in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.
    >
    > Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you stand by
    > your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what is offered
    > here on its own merit rather than who said it?

    I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

    > Is rudeness why you write anonymously?

    I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

    Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9. Maybe
    you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as easy to
    post under a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious alias.

    Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.

    Have a good day,

    Tim

    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
    Tags:


  2. Bill Toler

    Bill Toler Guest

    Your irony meter may have hit nine, but my hypocrisy meter just exploded. This is the same guy that
    made fun of me a while back, I didn't appreciate that then, and I don't appreciate this now. I have
    bone disease in my back and as a result my spine is very contorted. When I was riding my road bike
    the handlebars were too narrow and I would become out of breath. I didn't realize that the
    handlebars were playing a role in what was happening, this group helped me figure it out. Anyway,
    this guy chided in and was making fun of my disease and the thought that handlebars had anything to
    do with breathing. It kinda hurts to bring it up again, but this guy is a classless jerk, is it
    possible to get him banned from this newsgroup? I don't understand what is so wrong with people like
    this, that they treat other people, strangers in fact, the way that they do.

    "Tim Bernard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]... The
    hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > anonymous writes:
    >
    > > Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of respect
    > > in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.
    >
    > Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you stand by
    > your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what is offered
    > here on its own merit rather than who said it?

    I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

    > Is rudeness why you write anonymously?

    I agree, respond to the content not who said it.

    Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9. Maybe
    you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as easy to
    post under a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious alias.

    Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.

    Have a good day,

    Tim

    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Tim Bernard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > The hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > anonymous writes:
    > >
    > > > Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of
    > > > respect in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.
    > >
    > > Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you stand
    > > by your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what is
    > > offered here on its own merit rather than who said it?
    >
    > I agree, respond to the content not who said it.
    >
    > > Is rudeness why you write anonymously?
    >
    > I agree, respond to the content not who said it.
    >
    > Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9.
    > Maybe you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as
    > easy to post
    under
    > a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious
    alias.
    >
    > Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.
    >
    > Have a good day,
    >
    > Tim
    >
    >
    >

    I gotta say, as much as I tend to like straightforward speakers like Jobst, and I do get a kick out
    of many of his off-camber responses, and I really value him for his contributions to cycling, though
    I think he does go way overboard, like someone who thinks too highly of themselves. He's an old dog
    and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

    --
    Robin Hubert <[email protected]
     
  4. Tim McNamara

    Tim McNamara Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, "Bill Toler"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > It kinda hurts to bring it up again, but this guy is a classless jerk, is it possible to get him
    > banned from this newsgroup?

    Nope. This is about as uncontrolled a medium as exists anywhere.
     
  5. > > It kinda hurts to bring it up again, but this guy is a classless jerk, is it possible to get him
    > > banned from this newsgroup?
    >
    > Nope. This is about as uncontrolled a medium as exists anywhere.

    well, we can always just roll our eyes everytime he starts in on his "back in my day, we used to
    have to make our own innertubes. and, ah, raise the silkworms to make thread for our tubulars!"

    fc
     
  6. Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

    How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1 of a ton)

    Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    (303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  7. TNEWSOME1

    TNEWSOME1 Guest

    I agree. I really believe that Jobst and Sheldon are national treasures in the bicycling world and
    even though I may disagree with them at times, they're the ones who are probably right! They're
    about the only ones who I listen to. "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Tim Bernard" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > The hypocrital Jobst wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > > > anonymous writes:
    > > >
    > > > > Deepest appologies for any offense, none was meant. There appears to be a great deal of
    > > > > respect in this newsgroup for him, and I certainly do not wish to tread on any toes.
    > > >
    > > > Oh! So only because others respect Sheldon you withdraw your snide remarks, otherwise you
    > > > stand by your comments, inappropriate as they are. How about responding to the content of what
    > > > is offered here on its own merit rather than who said it?
    > >
    > > I agree, respond to the content not who said it.
    > >
    > > > Is rudeness why you write anonymously?
    > >
    > > I agree, respond to the content not who said it.
    > >
    > > Wait! Don't you have a habit of besmirching anonymous posters? Hmm, my irony meter just hit 9.
    > > Maybe you should be reminded of your own words? Respond to the content not who said it. It's as
    > > easy to post
    > under
    > > a real sounding name, fake or not, as it is to post under an obvious
    > alias.
    > >
    > > Plus, we know from your posts that rudeness is not confined to anonymous posters.
    > >
    > > Have a good day,
    > >
    > > Tim
    > >
    > >
    > >
    >
    > I gotta say, as much as I tend to like straightforward speakers like
    Jobst,
    > and I do get a kick out of many of his off-camber responses, and I really value him for his
    > contributions to cycling, though I think he does go way overboard, like someone who thinks too
    > highly of themselves. He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.
    >
    > --
    > Robin Hubert <[email protected]
     
  8. In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    Campagnolo) wrote:

    > Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.
    >
    > How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1 of a ton)

    It's JB's right not to respond, but he first rode the alps in 1959:

    http://www-math.science.unitn.it/Bike/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_ of_the_Alps/1959/

    He was there on compulsory military service, I'd guess he was at least
    18. Suffice it to say I think he is old enough to enter Masters races.

    I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.
    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  9. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "George F. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > >From: [email protected]
    >
    > >I agree. I really believe that Jobst and Sheldon are national treasures
    in
    > >the bicycling world and even though I may disagree with them at times, they're the ones who are
    > >probably right! They're about the only ones who
    I
    > >listen to.
    >
    > I find it rather unfortunate that at least one of the experts who frequent
    this
    > news group finds it necessary to boost his own ego by constantly being
    rude.
    > For myself, I've been riding for about a half century, I'm the only one
    who
    > ever works on my bikes, I build my own wheels having never read a single
    book
    > on the subject and I manage to get by while ignoring this individual but
    I'll
    > bet a lot of newer riders who could use some of his advice are put off by
    his
    > attitude. I thought we were supposed to be helping each, but rudness is
    seldom
    > helpful.
    >
    > George F. Johnson A veteran for peace

    I've been pretty quiet in this thread, trying to be a nice guy. I think that the last paragraph sums
    it up for me nicely.

    Mike
     
  10. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    > Campagnolo) wrote:
    >
    > > Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.
    > >
    > > How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1
    of a
    > > ton)
    >
    > It's JB's right not to respond, but he first rode the alps in 1959:
    >
    > http://www-math.science.unitn.it/Bike/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_ of_the_Alps/1959/
    >
    > He was there on compulsory military service, I'd guess he was at least
    > 18. Suffice it to say I think he is old enough to enter Masters races.
    >
    > I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.

    Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio! ;-)

    --
    Robin Hubert <[email protected]
     
  11. Robin Hubert

    Robin Hubert Guest

    "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    > > Campagnolo) wrote:
    > >
    > > > Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.
    > > >
    > > > How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century,
    .1
    > of a
    > > > ton)
    > >
    > > It's JB's right not to respond, but he first rode the alps in 1959:
    > >
    > >
    http://www-math.science.unitn.it/Bike/Countries/Europe/Tour_Reports/Tour_
    > > of_the_Alps/1959/
    > >
    > > He was there on compulsory military service, I'd guess he was at least
    > > 18. Suffice it to say I think he is old enough to enter Masters races.
    > >
    > > I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.
    >
    > Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio! ;-)
    >
    >

    Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol he puts out. Does anyone here
    remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from "The Muppet Show"?

    Robin Hubert
     
  12. Peter Cole

    Peter Cole Guest

    "George F. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > I find it rather unfortunate that at least one of the experts who frequent
    this
    > news group finds it necessary to boost his own ego by constantly being rude. For myself, I've been
    > riding for about a half century, I'm the only one who ever works on my bikes, I build my own
    > wheels having never read a single
    book
    > on the subject

    I dunno, one guy brags (or so you claim) about writing a book on wheel building, and you brag about
    never having even read a book. I find the first accomplishment much more impressive, and perhaps
    worth bragging rights.

    The cycling world seems chock full of self-proclaimed experts dispensing advice on every conceivable
    topic, including quite serious issues like those affecting safety. Unfortunately, most of those
    "experts" have no qualifications, yet seem to have little concern for the consequences for others
    following their dubious suggestions. Now that's arrogance! I don't think challenging a poster's
    erroneous/unfounded claims is rude, I think making those claims in the first place goes beyond rude.

    What is particularly rude is authoring and/or contributing to a thread that is completely ad
    hominem. If you guys consider yourselves the arbiters of civility, your hypocrisy is staggering.
     
  13. Bobv

    Bobv Guest

    Well since Jobst doesn't want to post anonymously, then is stuck with this:

    His age is 68.

    http://preview.ussearch.com/preview/preview.jsp?fc=ocean&TID=0&srcAdID=1050034035&sourceid=&searchZ-
    ip=94301-1345&searchState=CA&searchCity=Palo+Alto&searchStreet=351+Middlefield+Rd&searchLName=Brand-
    t&searchFName=Jobst

    Bob

    Who does post semi-anonymously, and his age is 64.

    On 03 May 2003 12:30:50 GMT, [email protected]

    (Qui si parla Campagnolo) wrote:

    >Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.
    >
    >How old is he? i asked him once but he didn't say-I'm 52(.52 century, .1 of a ton)
    >
    >
    >Peter Chisholm Vecchio's Bicicletteria 1833 Pearl St. Boulder, CO, 80302
    >(303)440-3535 http://www.vecchios.com "Ruote convenzionali costruite eccezionalmente bene"
     
  14. Robin Hubert wrote:
    >
    > Does anyone here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from "The Muppet Show"?

    Do you mean Statler and Waldorf? They were my two favorite characters! (Well, after Animal, the
    drummer for Dr. Teeth and the Electric Mayhem, anyway.)

    Mark McMaster [email protected]
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>, "Robin Hubert"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    > > > Campagnolo) wrote:
    > > >
    > > > > Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new tricks.

    > > > I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.
    > >
    > > Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio! ;-)

    > Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol he puts out. Does anyone
    > here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from "The Muppet Show"?

    This thread is turning into a pity party for people who feel picked on, so I want to say it right
    here for Jobst's ears:

    Jobst and I have argued (mostly trivially) over details here and there, but in my opinion he is
    civil when he's not being trifled with or presented with questions already answered in the FAQ.
    Certainly he is civil enough to make discussion with him interesting and useful.

    More to the point, I'd much rather have Jobst, warts and all, as a contributor to the newsgroup than
    I would have no Jobst, and if it means the hurt feelings of so many others go unsalved, that's a
    cost I'm willing to accept.

    I really don't know why a guy like Jobst bothers with this group: I suppose for entertainment and to
    enlighten. Unlike most of us here, he's paid his dues, having done the heavy lifting of a lot of
    fairly serious bicycle research, not just in wheels but in other areas, and his work has been
    admiringly peer-reviewed. Jobst tends to back his work (especially with regard to wheels) with hard
    research and an engineer's eye, two things I trust. His results are well-regarded by the smart and
    experienced hands in this ng, mainly because they have tested his research by building wheels, and
    his methods work.

    The choice is probably not the polite and obsequious Jobst you crave or the current Jobst (and if it
    was, this approach--public sniping and comparing him to Waldorf and Statler--is not going to change
    his ways). It's this Jobst or no Jobst at all.

    I don't have to ponder it. I choose Jobst.

    "You will find these very feeling people are not very ready to do you good. They pay you by
    feeling." -Samuel Johnson

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine President, Fabrizio Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  16. Yeah. Statler & Waldorf.

    >
    > Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol he puts out. Does anyone
    > here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from
    "The
    > Muppet Show"?
    >
    >
    > Robin Hubert
     
  17. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > In article <[email protected]>, "Robin Hubert"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > "Robin Hubert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > "Ryan Cousineau" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] (Qui si parla
    > > > > Campagnolo) wrote:
    > > > >
    > > > > > Robin-<< He's an old dog and nobody's gonna teach him any new
    tricks.
    >
    > > > > I'm 29, but nobody cares, and Fabrizio is . . . ageless.
    > > >
    > > > Well, someone must care, but no-one here, and certainly not Fabrizio!
    ;-)
    >
    > > Oh, he's about 90 or so, judging by the amount of phlegm and vitriol
    he
    > > puts out. Does anyone here remember the crotchety old guys in the balcony from
    "The
    > > Muppet Show"?
    >
    > This thread is turning into a pity party for people who feel picked on, so I want to say it right
    > here for Jobst's ears:
    >
    > Jobst and I have argued (mostly trivially) over details here and there, but in my opinion he is
    > civil when he's not being trifled with or presented with questions already answered in the FAQ.
    > Certainly he is civil enough to make discussion with him interesting and useful.
    >
    > More to the point, I'd much rather have Jobst, warts and all, as a contributor to the newsgroup
    > than I would have no Jobst, and if it means the hurt feelings of so many others go unsalved,
    > that's a cost I'm willing to accept.
    >
    > I really don't know why a guy like Jobst bothers with this group: I suppose for entertainment and
    > to enlighten. Unlike most of us here, he's paid his dues, having done the heavy lifting of a lot
    > of fairly serious bicycle research, not just in wheels but in other areas, and his work has been
    > admiringly peer-reviewed. Jobst tends to back his work (especially with regard to wheels) with
    > hard research and an engineer's eye, two things I trust. His results are well-regarded by the
    > smart and experienced hands in this ng, mainly because they have tested his research by building
    > wheels, and his methods work.
    >
    > The choice is probably not the polite and obsequious Jobst you crave or the current Jobst (and if
    > it was, this approach--public sniping and comparing him to Waldorf and Statler--is not going to
    > change his ways). It's this Jobst or no Jobst at all.
    >
    > I don't have to ponder it. I choose Jobst.

    Amen. Now let us sing hymn 857, "Our Lord is a Mighty Hub."

    I mean really, Jobst troubles with this group because it brings him some sort of enjoyment. There
    are are only a few people in this world who really give a rat's ass about whether a rim hangs from
    or stands on the spokes -- and a good number of those people probably are on this NG (including me).
    But try bringing up this subject up at your next office party. Your co-workers will run screaming
    for the wine box. God bless Jobst, but we need to get a little perspective here. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  18. bobv wrote:
    > Well since Jobst doesn't want to post anonymously, then is stuck with this:
    >
    > His age is 68.

    Having seen Jobst speak at Palo Alto Bicycle last year, I can only say that I wish I am as well
    preserved as he is at 68.

    --
    R.

    <> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements <> The tall blond one. always cause trouble." <>
    [email protected]
     
  19. Jay Beattie wrote:
    > I mean really, Jobst troubles with this group because it brings him some sort of enjoyment. There
    > are are only a few people in this world who really give a rat's ass about whether a rim hangs from
    > or stands on the spokes -- and a good number of those people probably are on this NG (including
    > me). But try bringing up this subject up at your next office party.

    However, if you want to see someone's thought processes at work, it is a nice problem to pose. I
    often use it when interviewing people for technical positions, as it is easy to describe and not
    something that non-cycling technical people are likely to have thought about.

    --
    R.

    <> Richard Brockie "Categorical statements <> The tall blond one. always cause trouble." <>
    [email protected]
     
  20. Fred Roses

    Fred Roses Guest

    I would like to reprint a brief thread from 2001 in which I commented on a Jobst post...

    Cary Purdy wrote: My wife bought a Z3. It looks too low to put on a trailer hitch. It has a
    convertible top - so no roof rack. It doesn't look to me like a bike rack will go on the trunk. Does
    anyone have any experience with this?

    To which Jobst humorously (??) replied: Yes, when my wife bought her Rolls we just decided to
    have her footman follow with our GMC Yukon to carry the bicycles. He's a pretty good bike
    mechanic too, so she won't have to worry about fixing flats. This was a cleaner solution and
    didn't mess with her car.

    About which I subsequently posted: Jobst, I think a guy with a Z3 is as entitled to a helpful answer
    from this group as somebody with an old beetle. Maybe I'm just oversensitive, but I think this
    attempt at humor pushes "curmudgeonliness" over the edge...

    Fred Roses
     
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