joggers

[Loki]

I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident involving joggers. Last fall
I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way was a
gaggle of female, I assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on there
left/ my right and they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them. The bike
lane is well marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now last week I
came upon a middle aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation

Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the lane
seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a similar
situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede right of way.

Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

--
'As your looks start slipping; so should your standards.' -red green

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
"loki" <[email protected]> writes:

> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

Sometimes I encounter joggers on some streets here. I don't mind 'em; at least they stick to their
lines. But I do wish certain of 'em would wear something reflective at night.

It's the wrong-way riders that really get my goat.

cheers, Tom

--
-- Powered by FreeBSD Above address is just a spam midden. I'm really at: tkeats [curlicue] vcn
[point] bc [point] ca

 

[M. Barbee]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident
> involving joggers. Last fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane
> city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way was a gaggle of female,
I
> assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on there left/ my right and
> they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them. The bike lane is well
> marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now last week I came upon a
middle
> aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation
>
> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
> right of way.
>
> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only
has
> a sidewalk but an asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating
it
> from the road. I can't imagine what benefit the road would have for a
jogger
> over the sidewalk or grass.
>
> --
> 'As your looks start slipping; so should your standards.' -red green
>
>

My job just moved a few weeks ago and my new route includes 3 or 4 miles along a street with a bike
lane. I've run into joggers running in the bike lane in the wrong direction regularly in the
evening after 6 in the dark. I must admit being a bit annoyed by this, but I think they are a lot
less dangerous than the cars on the road. I'm already riding towards the outside of the bike lane
to reduce the chance of being doored. Further, I regularly have to merge into the main lanes to get
around vehicles standing in the bike lane or people lingering at their cars in the bike lane.
Although the runners are running in the wrong direction, even at night, I usually see them in
plenty of time to merge safely into the main lanes. Sometimes you don't have that luxury when
someone decides to open their car door. My hope is that the people who jog in the lane are the same
people who drive cars down that street and that they will respect the need to ride in the main
lanes at times.

I don't know why the people prefer the bike lane where you are. Perhaps the asphalt sidewalk is not
in good condition. Here the sidewalks are concrete so I can understand why the runners may prefer
the bike lane.

 

[Badger_South]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 00:10:33 -0800, [email protected] (Tom Keats) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, "loki"
><[email protected]> writes:
>
>> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
>> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
>> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.
>
>Sometimes I encounter joggers on some streets here. I don't mind 'em; at least they stick to their
>lines. But I do wish certain of 'em would wear something reflective at night.
>
>It's the wrong-way riders that really get my goat.
>
>
>cheers, Tom

Paintball with reflective properties?

Naw, that's just too extreme - maybe little easy-break water balloon with reflective paint in
it...unh-uh.

OK - we hire the pepe lePieu to paint a reflective stripe down their back.

Yeah, that's the ticket!

-B

 

[Daniel Ballagh]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident
> involving joggers. Last fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane
> city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way was a gaggle of female,
I
> assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on there left/ my right and
> they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them. The bike lane is well
> marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now last week I came upon a
middle
> aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation
>
> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
> right of way.
>
> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only
has
> a sidewalk but an asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating
it
> from the road. I can't imagine what benefit the road would have for a
jogger
> over the sidewalk or grass.

How about yelling out (calling out) that your approaching on their left? I'm of course assuming that
your both going in right direction on the right side of the road.

Dan.

 

[Badger_South]

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 12:14:29 GMT, "Daniel Ballagh" <[email protected]>
wrote:

>> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
>> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
>> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
>> right of way.
>>
>> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only on a sidewalk but an
>> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating from the road. I can't imagine what
>> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.
>
>How about yelling out (calling out) that your approaching on their left? I'm of course assuming
>that your both going in right direction on the right side of the road.
>
>Dan.

Ah a fellow nordic skiier. Greetz.

-B My fav is on the double chair 'Single', with a <bseg> thrown in. Ah the mammar&^H^H^H^H memories.

 

[Loki]

"M. Barbee" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news[email protected]... [...]
> I've run into joggers running in the bike lane in the wrong direction regularly in the evening
> after 6 in the dark.

Not literally I hope.

> I must admit being a bit annoyed by this, but I think they are a lot less dangerous than the cars
> on the road. I'm already riding towards the
outside
> of the bike lane to reduce the chance of being doored.

No parking along this street and I'm not really annoyed with it either - share and share and all
that. It just seemed to me - were the situation reversed - that common courtesy would dictate that
I wouild cede the lane. They made no effort to do so.

--
'As your looks start slipping; so should your standards.' -red green

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 03:10:40 GMT, "loki" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the lane
> seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a similar
> situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede right of way.

That's because your'e a pedestrian and a cyclist. The jogger is a pedestrian, probably not a
cyclist, and probably also a motorist. He can ride on the edge of the road--no cars there. But a
bicycle? In traffic? unthinkable! The bike lanes are probably used so seldom that they figure they
are just rightfully using abandoned space...

>
> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

Less street furniture, a consistent grade, smoother, more predictable surface.

Maybe it's worth slowing down, downshifting, and explaining the rules of the road politely?

I'd do that. Preferably over a cool refereshing drink of

water.

-Luigi

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 02 Mar 2004 06:53:08 -0500, Badger_South <[email protected]>
wrote:

>
>Paintball with reflective properties?
>
>Naw, that's just too extreme - maybe little easy-break water balloon with reflective paint in
>it...unh-uh.
>
>OK - we hire the pepe lePieu to paint a reflective stripe down their back.
>
>Yeah, that's the ticket!

Cartoons again, B?

I'll volunteer.

-Luigi *le sigh*

 

[Teresa Bippert-]

I'm a runner and a cyclist. And you're right- they should have ceded
the bike lane to you. I do when I run in a bike lane. The reason I run
in a bike lane, when I do (which is rarely), is because there is no
good alternative. I won't run on the local sidewalks (uneven and running
on concrete is too hard on the joints). But I always keep an eye out
for cyclists and move over when they approach. If it's any consolation,
we have gaggles of both male AND female joggers AND cyclists that move
around in packs near the University and don't tend to be courteous to
anyone. Advice: stay away from Universtity areas.

Teresa in Arizona

loki wrote:
> I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident involving joggers. Last
> fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane city street with bike lanes. Coming the other
> way was a gaggle of female, I assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike
> lane on there left/ my right and they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide
> around them. The bike lane is well marked including the little universal bike symbol for the
> illiterate. Now last week I came upon a middle aged lone male jogger along the same area, same
> situation
>
> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
> right of way.
>
> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

 

[Amh]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident involving joggers. Last
> fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way
> was a gaggle of female, I assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on
> there left/ my right and they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them.
> The bike lane is well marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now
> last week I came upon a middle aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation
>
> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
> right of way.
>
> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

I can give you my answer why I prefer to run in the street rather than a nice sidewalk. When I run
in the street I can see intersections much better than from the side walks here in Queens, NYC. We
all know that cars "stopping" for stop signs don't stop until they are a few feet into traffic. I
usually run through intersections just in front of where most cars "stop". If I run on the sidewalk
the driver's have no chance of seeing me as I step off the sidewalk. Because the thought of a
pedestrian crossing a street is the last thing on their minds.

A pox upon the runners who don't allow cyclists to pass them without going into traffic. I'm always
concerned in a situation where a cyclist has their back to traffic while I can see traffic clearly.

Why can't we all just get along?

Andy

 

[Loki]

"Teresa Bippert-Plymate" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]... [...]
> I'm a runner and a cyclist. And you're right- they should have ceded the bike lane to you. I do
> when I run in a bike lane. The reason I run in a bike lane, when I do (which is rarely), is
> because there is no good alternative. I won't run on the local sidewalks (uneven and running on
> concrete is too hard on the joints).

I can understand that. Would a jogger prefer grass though?Were I a jogger I think that running
on the grass strip would be preferred. Though maybe joggers might consider that _too_ soft. But
as I said; this stretch of sidewalk was asphalt and there was very little traffic thanks to the
time of day.

> But I always keep an eye out for cyclists and move over when they approach. If it's any
> consolation, we have gaggles of both male AND female joggers AND cyclists that move around in
> packs near the University and don't tend to be courteous to anyone. Advice: stay away from
> Universtity areas.

Kinda hard for me as the U of Guelph is between my home and my work.

Not a huge deal but something I thought less than courteous

--
'As your looks start slipping; so should your standards.' -red green

 

[Tanya]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> I don't mean to start a cross-sport war but I've had a second incident involving joggers. Last
> fall I was eastbound on College Ave - a two lane city street with bike lanes. Coming the other way
> was a gaggle of female, I assume frosh from the University. They were jogging in the bike lane on
> there left/ my right and they did not even cede the lane but forced me to swing wide around them.
> The bike lane is well marked including the little universal bike symbol for the illiterate. Now
> last week I came upon a middle aged lone male jogger along the same area, same situation
>
> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
> right of way.
>
> Second; why do they prefer the bike lane? This stretch of road not only has a sidewalk but an
> asphalt sidewalk with a wide strip of grass separating it from the road. I can't imagine what
> benefit the road would have for a jogger over the sidewalk or grass.

Hi Loki, I used to get annoyed at joggers on the bike path or in bike lanes and now I've taken up
jogging as well and prefer the bike path Asphalt is easier to run on than concrete. Not sure why
they would prefer the bike lane on the road over the asphalt sidewalk, but perhaps the road is in
better condition. Grass tends to be too muddy at this time of year, and really in any case there's
always the chance of jumping into doggie-doo.

Once you get momentum going while you're jogging, you don't really want to stop to let something
else go by. But common courtesy would indicate if there is room for them to move around you, since a
jogger is more versatile than a bicycle, and the roadway is really intended for vehicles, they
should do so.

I think pedestrians sometimes have the mistaken impression of how fast a bicycle is travelling and
that they can somehow stop on a dime. Some peds cross against red lights in front of me - oh its
just a bicycle not a car, and I have to swerve to avoid them. I really must mount my air horn on
my bicycle.

Tanya http://crazybikerchick.blogspot.com

 

[Amh]

"M. Barbee" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "loki" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> >
>
<snip>

> bike lane or people lingering at their cars in the bike lane. Although the runners are running in
> the wrong direction, even at night, I usually see

Runners are much much safer running while facing traffic. At least here in Queens, NYC runners are
advised to run facing traffic. So we can see cars coming at us. Runners are also advised to wear
reflective clothing when running at night. From my experience perhaps 75% of runners I see running
at night have something reflective. I won't use anything less than a vest.

Andy

 

[Curtis L . Russ]

On 2 Mar 2004 09:17:21 -0800, [email protected] (Tanya) wrote:

>Not sure why they would prefer the bike lane on the road over the asphalt sidewalk, but perhaps the
>road is in better condition.

Well, it makes sense at night. Asphalt is one of the hardest surfaces to see well at night and a lot
of sidewalks are less even than roadways. There are some in my area that I won't walk at night -
tired of looking like a drunk when I'm cold sober.

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

 

[Steven M. O'Nei]

Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote:
>Well, it makes sense at night. Asphalt is one of the hardest surfaces to see well at night and a
>lot of sidewalks are less even than roadways. There are some in my area that I won't walk at night
>- tired of looking like a drunk when I'm cold sober.

The terrorists have won.

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]

 

[Curtis L . Russ]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:44:24 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M.
O'Neill) wrote:

>The terrorists have won.

Meaning? Walking on uneven asphalt sidewalks is a problem. Absent street lights, you can't see the
surface where you walk, Stepping on uneven surfaces in the dark can makes you stagger or lurch as
you catch your footing. This has what to do with terrorists?

Or is it that you don't understand because you stay safely at home at night and have yet to walk
in the dark?

Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...

 

[Steven M. O'Nei]

Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote:
>On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:44:24 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>
>>The terrorists have won.
>
>Meaning? Walking on uneven asphalt sidewalks is a problem. Absent street lights, you can't see the
>surface where you walk, Stepping on uneven surfaces in the dark can makes you stagger or lurch as
>you catch your footing. This has what to do with terrorists?

You're afraid to walk at night -- therefore you have been successfully terrorized into a
certain behavior.

(I'm critisizing MD-DOT, not you....)

--
Steven O'Neill [email protected]

 

[Fritz M]

"loki" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Wass'up up wi' dat? First of all wouldn't minimal courtesy require the jogger to cede the
> lane seeing as they must be aware the area was intended for bikes. I now if I were in a
> similar situation In an area marked as pedestrian the very least I would to would be to cede
> right of way.

I run and bike. I can't comment on the motivations joggers you encountered, but for me if traffic is
light then I run in the street, even if there's a good sidewalk nearby because curb cuts, driveways
and swales can be a little hard on the ankles and knees. It never even occurred to me before this
post that oncoming cyclists might get annoyed at my failure to get off the road, especially since
I've never had problems passing joggers while I'm on bike.

Incidentally, the magic white stripe is not an impenetrable barrier. Vehicles of all types,
including bicycles, are capable of crossing it. Even states that mandate bike lane usage provide
exceptions for avoiding hazards and obstructions.

A couple of people in this thread have commented on contra-flow joggers. Joggers are
pedestrians, not vehicle operators, and hence do not follow the rules of vehicular operation
like a cyclist should.

RFM

 

[Luigi de Guzman]

On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 19:41:33 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M.
O'Neill) wrote:

>Curtis L. Russell <[email protected]> wrote:
>>On Tue, 2 Mar 2004 17:44:24 +0000 (UTC), [email protected] (Steven M. O'Neill) wrote:
>>
>>>The terrorists have won.
>>
>>Meaning? Walking on uneven asphalt sidewalks is a problem. Absent street lights, you can't see the
>>surface where you walk, Stepping on uneven surfaces in the dark can makes you stagger or lurch as
>>you catch your footing. This has what to do with terrorists?
>
>You're afraid to walk at night -- therefore you have been successfully terrorized into a certain
>behavior.
>
>(I'm critisizing MD-DOT, not you....)

So it would seem that regime-change is in order?

-Luigi