Julich slams Basso; "I can't say he's clean"

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by whiteboytrash, Aug 31, 2006.

  1. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    NICE Bobby Julich tells a depressing story about his close friend, training partner and teammate Jens Voigt.

    "Jens, winning the Tour of Germany," in August, "winning three stages, instead of celebrating his victory after the time trial, he said, 'I don't know if I should have won the time trial because now everyone will assume I'm doped.'


    "He said this two minutes after his victory in the time trial, when he could first catch his breath," Julich said. "Instead of slapping high-fives, he's worrying what people will think. Because, they'll say, it doesn't make sense, it's not normal."

    In fact, in less suspicious times, it would make sense. Voigt is a strong time-trialer, and, as a German who was rejected for a job more than a dozen years ago by the Telekom team from Germany and exiled to a little-known team in Australia to become a professional, he especially likes to win in his homeland.

    His victory was no fluke, Julich was reminded. Voigt is a major rider, a winner of a stage in the Tour de France as recently as this year.

    Julich was unmoved. "The only thing we can do," he said, "is look at ourselves in the mirror and say, 'We can't listen, we know what we can do.'"

    If that sounds passive, so be it. Julich, a 34-year-old American rider for the CSC team from Denmark, is one of the sport's few outspoken opponents of doping. So is Voigt. Both ride, however, for a team led by Ivan Basso, a 28-year-old Italian who was a favorite in the last Tour de France, from which he was excluded on doping suspicions that have not yet been made public.

    Denying all charges, he began testifying at an official inquiry in Italy on Tuesday.

    "The riders getting caught now are the biggest riders out there," Julich said, listing charges again Basso, Jan Ullrich and Floyd Landis, among others.

    "So many of them are good, honest people, and when they start to dispute the tests, it's natural to listen to what they have to say and maybe even believe them. But I wish that if someone did get caught and was guilty, he would be honest enough to himself, No. 1, and to the public, No. 2, to admit it so that we would have confidence in the tests.

    "The worst scenario for an athlete is to be accused of something you didn't do. But you don't just stumble and fall onto a blood transfusion or a dose of EPO.

    "The operators in the labs hold our careers in their hands. If we don't have 100 percent confidence in these tests, why are we doing them? The tests are there to protect the riders. You have to have a belief system, and the only thing we can believe in now is the validity of these tests."

    Basso's name came up frequently in a long interview with Julich last week.
    "Ivan" was the focus of Julich's account of admiration, loyalty and betrayal, a word that Julich used guardedly.

    "It's very difficult for me to know how I feel at the moment, honestly," he began.

    "I know that Ivan is a good person. No way he could have got that by me. I respect him absolutely as a person, and the only thing I can see is that, if he's involved" in a doping scandal "in the way that it looks like he's involved, that he lied.

    "And that hurts, that definitely hurts. As far as forgiving him, yeah, O.K., if he's guilty, he played with the reputation of our sport, our team, but more importantly, of the individuals on our team. So that's what's tough.

    "At CSC we worked together the right way, trained hard, rested hard, won the biggest races. And we had the reputation of having no drug problems, and that was something I was extremely proud of.

    "We took these morals and team values to the maximum, the riders did. And Ivan was a big part of that because he was the leader."

    Rarely pausing, Julich continued his story. "Jens Voigt and I are very outspoken about doping and making sure the young riders know that's not an option on our team, especially. It should never be an option, period. "I was very proud of being on the No. 1 team in the world. I would put my hand in the fire for anybody on our team and especially for Ivan, because I saw how hard he trained and I saw how serious he is - in December, already with his diet. "Two things matter to him: cycling and his family. "He doesn't tell you how fast his car is, he doesn't tell you how expensive his watch is - he's absolutely the hardest worker I've ever seen, the most serious guy I've ever seen." Then why, if Basso is involved in blood doping, the illegal replacement of blood to increase its oxygen-bearing capacity, would he do it? "That's the question," Julich replied. "We lost our reputation as a team, and it gives people the excuse to say, 'Oh, that's why Bobby is riding so good the last two years, that's why Jens Voigt is winning the Tour of Germany, and that's why Franck Schleck is able to win a classic and the Tour stage into Alpe d'Huez - because they all change their blood. "And that's not fair. That's why I'm extremely upset about Ivan if it's proven that he has anything to do with this. "If he has anything to do with this, absolutely I feel betrayed. It's not normal for a 34-year-old man to look at a 28- year-old guy and put him on a pedestal and say, 'Wow, this is what I need, this is the motivation I need to continue to talk to young riders about clean sport. Because this is what's possible clean. "And then to have that come tumbling down with the realization that he may have been cheating, it hurts, it really does hurt. "I think I could forgive him. If he is involved, O.K., I can forgive him. But unless he proves his 100 percent innocence to his teammates, it would be very difficult to be on the same team with him. "I've been answering questions about Ivan since 2004," when he began starring in the Tour de France, "and I've always said, 'Listen, I know how he trains, come to any of our training camps.' "That was enough for me. I could say that with a clear conscience.



    "Now," Julich said, anguished, "I can't."
     
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  2. helmutRoole2

    helmutRoole2 New Member

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    He's got know the reputation of Bjarne Riis, right? He should examine that first, then Basso.

    When a pro athlete speaks out against doping, everyone assumes they're above board, but in the case of Gatlin, I know that's not always the case. In fact, I think some use it as a smoke screen.

    In my mind, all professional athletes are suspect. Not guilty, but suspect. PEDs are too easy to get, take and test negative.

    Here's a one-stop shopping source: http://www.pharmanabolics.com
     
  3. Powerful Pete

    Powerful Pete New Member

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    Yes, interesting all this. And especially coming from Mr. Julich, another one year TdF wonder... :eek:

    For the record, I do wonder whether Basso is clean...
     
  4. foxvi

    foxvi New Member

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    Different from the loyality shown to Jan Ullrich by his team mates thats for sure. Strange reaction from Bobbie J as it appears Basso will not be implicated in the OPuerto case.
     
  5. cyclingheroes

    cyclingheroes New Member

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    Bobby J.... hmmm no i am not gonna speculate about him but...
     
  6. lwedge

    lwedge New Member

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    Let's go beat him up ! :D


    lw
     
  7. lwedge

    lwedge New Member

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    Bobby seems to be more boisterous this year than in years past.


    CH, am I going crazy or is the link to the (English) Vuelta Stage 6 broken on your site ?

    http://cyclingheroes.tripod.com/cyclingheroes.english/id185.html

    lw
     
  8. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

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    ...too many crocodile tears from a pro rider bemoaning the fact that the public jumps to the conclusion that all riders dope. the riders could have easily cleaned up their teams, but the "celebrity" and money seemed to become too great a lure to getting on ped's.
     
  9. helmutRoole2

    helmutRoole2 New Member

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    Sometimes guys dope for years and then get off the dope and still perform, and they think, "I don't need the dope; I never did," when in fact they're benefiting from years of doping.

    The gains don't go completely away when the dope does. If they're doing it right, about 80-90 percent of the gains stick around.
     
  10. lwedge

    lwedge New Member

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    Do they go through a "slump" period? Like let's say, Giambi or Bonds. Both of these sluggers went through just about a year of injuries and weakness and now they are about 85% percent (that's redundant) of the steroid years. Any likeness?

    lw
     
  11. cyclingheroes

    cyclingheroes New Member

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  12. Bro Deal

    Bro Deal New Member

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    The 1998 Cofidis TdF team roster reads like a who's who of dopers. VDB. Casagrande. Gaumont. Rinero. Lelli. Meier. Livingston. The only members of the team that I don't recall being involved in doping cases are Julich and Nicolas Jalabert, Didn't Gaumont talk about recreational drug use by the English speaking riders of the team?

    I just find it hard to take read Julich's interview with a straight face, especially with his history and his miraculous return to form after he signed with CSC. I have little doubt he was doped to the gills in 1998 just like the rest of his team.
     
  13. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Armstrong was contracted to cycle with Cofidis in 1997 - but was diagnosed with cancer October 1996.
     
  14. helmutRoole2

    helmutRoole2 New Member

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    From what I've been reading on this testosterone and steroid thing, the soft muscle tissue grows and becomes stronger before the connective tissue (ligament, tendons) can have a chance to adjust (either strengthen, increase flexibility or both). Sorry about no links. The info is out there but it might be hard to find. Essentially, the stronger muscles break the weaker components.

    There's also some discussion of a training effect ref. epo use, that the increased rbc overtime create a greater density within the capilary beds. Also, cardiac output might also increase over time due to the greater workload associated with pumping blood with a greater viscosity and running a higher heart rate for long periods before reaching LT. Athletes who use epo run the risk of wearing prematurely different structural components of their hearts, like valves, for the same reason.

    My theory: Giambi and Bonds increased their weight and strength beyond the point that their skeletal system and connective tissue could keep up. It's like when you rebuild the engine of a car. Not soon after, the new engine will wear out the old transmission. So basically, they were just tearing themselves apart. Bonds, it would seem, was using HGH, which should also grow everything (most noticably his head) but it grows soft tissue faster. I'd think none of this applies to cyclists since it's not a weight bearing sport. However -- and I don't understand exactly how this works -- epo causes a weakening of the bones, or so I've read. So crashes can be pretty disastrous -- broken hips, femurs.
     
  15. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

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    ...you seem to be on the money here. although i've only read the sports illustrated excerpts, the book that came from the s.f. newswriters infers the same conclusion. rapid growth of bond's musculature which resulted in numerous tears of the connective/ligament tissue because of the reduced fatigue in training. as far as the latter topic of calcium robbing, kinda hesitant to go there, since hyper ingestion of spinach also robs the body of calcium. sort of a nice way of covering up epo use though...i ate enormous amounts of spinach to boost my iron content...who knew?
     
  16. whiteboytrash

    whiteboytrash New Member

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    Gaumont did... he told stories how Miller was snorting before races ! how he didn't get caught is anyones guess.... those boys lived the good life... the only way to get up the next day and train was to take another hit... and they did.... Gaumont book tells it all... and yes Armstrong gets mentioned as being "part if the gang"... girls, booze, chics, drugs and booze..... Allan Peiper and Gaumont tell a nice story afte the Tour in 95 about Armstrong and his antics with the women (and booze)......... read about it Gaumont book (only in French) "Prisonnier du dopage" and Peipers book "A Peiper tale" (in english)........
     
  17. lwedge

    lwedge New Member

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    Very good theories. I agree with you...

    When do we publish ? :D

    lw
     
  18. wineandkeyz

    wineandkeyz New Member

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    :rolleyes: Your obsession with LA is really growing rather stale.
     
  19. meb

    meb New Member

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    I think he is disgusted with the doping going on in cycling and the doubt it places on every cyclist and he recognizes that Basso might be guilty or might be innocent. He simply doesn't know who is clean and who isn't. Remember, he was Tyler's Olympic roomate too so he's been surprised before and knows he is not omniscient on the doping scene.
     
  20. cyclingheroes

    cyclingheroes New Member

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    Yeah poor Bobby probebly didn't know about his team manager's nickname...:p
     
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