July 3rd Tour de France on OLN - Questions...

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by C.J.Patten, Jul 3, 2005.

  1. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    HOLY COW.

    Frickin' awesome coverage of the tour on OLN.

    One thing that struck me: EVERYONE finished within seconds of each other.
    Even the stragglers were within sight of the podium crowd.

    What this suggests to me is the riders must train within *extremely close*
    conditions to each other.

    I mean, if some team doctor screws up two weeks before a tour and says
    "here, take this new vitamin" and it turns out to be a bad choice, I would
    think TINY changes like that could be enough to cost someone a win.

    Know what I mean?

    Chris - *awe-struck*
     
    Tags:


  2. Mike Causer

    Mike Causer Guest

    On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 11:05:25 -0400, C.J.Patten wrote:

    > One thing that struck me: EVERYONE finished within seconds of each other.
    > Even the stragglers were within sight of the podium crowd.
    >
    > What this suggests to me is the riders must train within *extremely close*
    > conditions to each other.


    Just wait for the mountain stages!


    I guess that this might be the first TdF you've followed? If so get
    to a newsstand and buy a copy of the Tour special edition of one of the
    cycling mags. That will explain the tactics and the likely outcome of the
    different stages. For example Cycling Weekly wrote about today's stage
    "Tradition has it that the first road stage of the Tour features a long
    fruitless break, several big crashes and a bunch sprint, and this long
    loop through western France is unlikely to provide anything out of the
    ordinary." Well, the crashes were small, but apart from that they were
    spot on.


    Mike
     
  3. Pete

    Pete Guest

    It's a stage race. Except for crashes which might put a rider out of the
    running, not too much happens in any one stage. Watching the TdF is kind of
    like watching paint dry (yes, I'm a longtime cycling fan, but let's face it,
    bike races aren't exactly made-for-TV events), except for a few moments,
    like end of stage sprints, and even these aren't very relevant to the
    outcome of the race. Only a baseball game on TV is less exciting :)

    It's a different thing if you're actually there though. In that case, it's
    the atmosphere and the party of the thing, not the actual race, since you
    only see a few fleeting seconds of it anyway.

    I don't know about vitamins, but slight mismanagement of the EPO could be
    disastrous for any rider.






    "C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > HOLY COW.
    >
    > Frickin' awesome coverage of the tour on OLN.
    >
    > One thing that struck me: EVERYONE finished within seconds of each other.
    > Even the stragglers were within sight of the podium crowd.
    >
    > What this suggests to me is the riders must train within *extremely close*
    > conditions to each other.
    >
    > I mean, if some team doctor screws up two weeks before a tour and says
    > "here, take this new vitamin" and it turns out to be a bad choice, I would
    > think TINY changes like that could be enough to cost someone a win.
    >
    > Know what I mean?
    >
    > Chris - *awe-struck*
    >
     
  4. psycholist

    psycholist Guest

    "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:0%[email protected]
    > It's a stage race. Except for crashes which might put a rider out of the
    > running, not too much happens in any one stage. Watching the TdF is kind
    > of like watching paint dry (yes, I'm a longtime cycling fan, but let's
    > face it, bike races aren't exactly made-for-TV events), except for a few
    > moments, like end of stage sprints, and even these aren't very relevant to
    > the outcome of the race. Only a baseball game on TV is less exciting :)
    >
    > It's a different thing if you're actually there though. In that case, it's
    > the atmosphere and the party of the thing, not the actual race, since you
    > only see a few fleeting seconds of it anyway.
    >
    > I don't know about vitamins, but slight mismanagement of the EPO could be
    > disastrous for any rider.
    >


    I've gotta pretty much agree with you Pete. I've been a serious cycling
    addict for a long time, but when I set my VCR to record the TdF, for most
    stages I only bother to catch the last 1/2 hour. The rest of the time there
    just isn't much going on and, even if there is, OLN will show it six more
    time throughout the day. The mountain stages are a bit more interesting, be
    even there, if it's not an uphill finish it'll be rather blah. Now, I will
    say that when there's excitement, it can be spectacularly exciting. Take,
    for instance, back in 2003 when Beloki crashed in front of Armstrong and
    Lance cut across that field. That was simply awesome. I know OLN is doing
    some "top 25 Lance moments" thing. I haven't seen how that's going, but to
    me, nothing he's done will top that moment of luck or brilliance or whatever
    it was.

    But yep ... it can often be like watching paint dry. Today's highlight was
    Thomas Vockler winning the sprint to the top of a Cat. 4 climb to claim the
    first KOM jersey. YYYAAAAAAWWWWNNNN. Actually, today's highlight was the
    interview with Sheryl Crow afterward. She's pretty sharp.
    --
    Bob C.

    "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
     
  5. Pete

    Pete Guest

    "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:0%[email protected]
    >> It's a stage race. Except for crashes which might put a rider out of the
    >> running, not too much happens in any one stage. Watching the TdF is kind
    >> of like watching paint dry (yes, I'm a longtime cycling fan, but let's
    >> face it, bike races aren't exactly made-for-TV events), except for a few
    >> moments, like end of stage sprints, and even these aren't very relevant
    >> to the outcome of the race. Only a baseball game on TV is less exciting
    >> :)
    >>
    >> It's a different thing if you're actually there though. In that case,
    >> it's the atmosphere and the party of the thing, not the actual race,
    >> since you only see a few fleeting seconds of it anyway.
    >>
    >> I don't know about vitamins, but slight mismanagement of the EPO could be
    >> disastrous for any rider.
    >>

    >
    > I've gotta pretty much agree with you Pete. I've been a serious cycling
    > addict for a long time, but when I set my VCR to record the TdF, for most
    > stages I only bother to catch the last 1/2 hour. The rest of the time
    > there just isn't much going on and, even if there is, OLN will show it six
    > more time throughout the day. The mountain stages are a bit more
    > interesting, be even there, if it's not an uphill finish it'll be rather
    > blah. Now, I will say that when there's excitement, it can be
    > spectacularly exciting. Take, for instance, back in 2003 when Beloki
    > crashed in front of Armstrong and Lance cut across that field. That was
    > simply awesome. I know OLN is doing some "top 25 Lance moments" thing. I
    > haven't seen how that's going, but to me, nothing he's done will top that
    > moment of luck or brilliance or whatever it was.
    >
    > But yep ... it can often be like watching paint dry. Today's highlight
    > was Thomas Vockler winning the sprint to the top of a Cat. 4 climb to
    > claim the first KOM jersey. YYYAAAAAAWWWWNNNN. Actually, today's
    > highlight was the interview with Sheryl Crow afterward. She's pretty
    > sharp.
    > --
    > Bob C.
    >
    > "Of course it hurts. The trick is not minding that it hurts."
    > T. E. Lawrence (of Arabia)
    >


    My most exciting moment of watching a Tour was in 1998 when Pantani took the
    lead, I forget on which mountain - no matter what happened with Pantani
    afterwards. There aren't too many before that time, for me, because the only
    television of it in North America was a short one hour package of highlights
    on ABC, if that. I've only ever been a road cyclist, but for me, the
    absolute most exciting cycling to watch happens on the track. If someone
    could revive six days trials, that would be something!

    Pete
     
  6. "psycholist" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > "Pete" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > I've gotta pretty much agree with you Pete. I've been a serious cycling
    > addict for a long time, but when I set my VCR to record the TdF, for most
    > stages I only bother to catch the last 1/2 hour. The rest of the time there
    > just isn't much going on and, even if there is,


    You guys need to take up some other sport, cycling isn't for you.

    You're not a cyclist.
     
  7. Veloise

    Veloise Guest

    psycholist wrote:
    > ...I've been a serious cycling
    > addict for a long time, but when I set my VCR to record the TdF, for most
    > stages I only bother to catch the last 1/2 hour. The rest of the time there
    > just isn't much going on and, even if there is, OLN will show it six more
    > time throughout the day...


    You mean, you don't care to play Spot the Devil or enjoy the
    landscaping (the round haybales as bike wheels...now that was art) or
    turning your head upside down to read the vugarity painted on the road
    or guessing that the Bull Horn Guy will impale his flag or admiring the
    the high BMI of yer typical polka-dotted fan at the crest of a hill?

    And then there's the commercials!

    > But yep ... it can often be like watching paint dry. Today's highlight was
    > Thomas Vockler winning the sprint to the top of a Cat. 4 climb to claim the
    > first KOM jersey. YYYAAAAAAWWWWNNNN. Actually, today's highlight was the
    > interview with Sheryl Crow afterward. She's pretty sharp.


    What was she wearing?

    --Karen M.
    needs to find a smoke-free sports bar or break down & get cable for a
    couple weeks
     
  8. Fred

    Fred Guest

    "C.J.Patten" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > HOLY COW.
    >
    > Frickin' awesome coverage of the tour on OLN.
    >
    > One thing that struck me: EVERYONE finished within seconds of each other.
    > Even the stragglers were within sight of the podium crowd.
    >
    > What this suggests to me is the riders must train within *extremely close*
    > conditions to each other.
    >
    > I mean, if some team doctor screws up two weeks before a tour and says
    > "here, take this new vitamin" and it turns out to be a bad choice, I would
    > think TINY changes like that could be enough to cost someone a win.
    >
    > Know what I mean?
    >
    > Chris - *awe-struck*
    >
    >


    One of the major components of bicycle racing on the road is the effect of
    aerodynamics. The play of aerodynamics is what makes cycling strategies
    complex and hard to understand to the uninitiated. It is also why the sport
    has a paradoxical combination of both individual and team capability.

    When a group of riders ride closely together, the riders behind the front
    riders receive a 20 to 35% reduction in the power requirement to travel at
    the same speed. By trading positions at the front, the riders alternate
    between resting and working hard. On flat ground the group travels at a
    constant 30mph for very long distances. Faster than any rider could do over
    such long distances by themselves.

    When the road tilts up, gravity becomes predominate over aerodynamics and
    things change. Now individuals with high power and low weight can travel
    faster than many others in the group.

    Because the stage you watched was flat, no one in the group could challenge
    the group alone and they all stayed in the same proximity. As the route
    gets more hilly you'll see more differentiation.

    There's a lot more to it but this is a start.
     
  9. C.J.Patten

    C.J.Patten Guest

    Cool. Thanks for that Fred.

    I remember seeing bits of the TdF in the Miguel Indrain and Greg Lemond
    days. I was biking seriously back then but fell out of the sport for a
    decade and didn't watch the tour during that time.

    I find it a happy coincidence that I'm enjoying cycling again and have
    access to OLN with it's total TdF coverage.

    I was listening to some of the commentary this evening - I think one of the
    sportscasters rode in the tour years ago? He mentioned the aerodynamic
    issues too. You see the speeds on the screen but they seem ridiculously high
    for such long durations until you take the drafting into account...

    *********

    I find it compelling to watch not for any single reason.

    Partly it's the technical aspects - I'm a gear geek and like all sorts of
    gizmos.

    Partly it's identifying with how it must feel to do that kind of riding -
    I'm sure everyone here can imagine the wind in their hair and sore thighs.

    For me, it's a bit of nostalga as I used to live in Europe and can almost
    smell the air as they zip through towns reminiscent of the one I lived in.

    If I weren't biking again, I might not be following it, but now that I am,
    watching the tour is very appealing to me.

    :)



    "Fred" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > One of the major components of bicycle racing on the road is the effect of
    > aerodynamics. The play of aerodynamics is what makes cycling strategies
    > complex and hard to understand to the uninitiated. It is also why the
    > sport
    > has a paradoxical combination of both individual and team capability.
    >
    > When a group of riders ride closely together, the riders behind the front
    > riders receive a 20 to 35% reduction in the power requirement to travel at
    > the same speed. By trading positions at the front, the riders alternate
    > between resting and working hard. On flat ground the group travels at a
    > constant 30mph for very long distances. Faster than any rider could do
    > over
    > such long distances by themselves.
    >
    > When the road tilts up, gravity becomes predominate over aerodynamics and
    > things change. Now individuals with high power and low weight can travel
    > faster than many others in the group.
    >
    > Because the stage you watched was flat, no one in the group could
    > challenge
    > the group alone and they all stayed in the same proximity. As the route
    > gets more hilly you'll see more differentiation.
    >
    > There's a lot more to it but this is a start.
    >
    >
    >
     
  10. "Veloise" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > What was she wearing


    A black tee with straps.
     
  11. Bob

    Bob Guest

    Fabrizio Mazzoleni wrote:
    > "Veloise" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >
    > > What was she wearing

    >
    > A black tee with straps.


    You're slipping, Fabs. What was the *brand* name? <g>

    Regards,
    Bob Hunt
     
  12. Fred wrote:

    > One of the major components of bicycle racing on the road
    > is the effect of aerodynamics.


    I had just taken a sip of Bass Ale, then snorted it out my nose when I
    heard either Phil Liggett or Paul Sherwen [I don't remember which] say
    Lance's Trek is the most aerodynamic bike in production. I can only try
    to imagine how hard it is to think "outside the box" for someone who has
    never actually been outside the box.

    --
    "Bicycling is a healthy and manly pursuit with much
    to recommend it, and, unlike other foolish crazes,
    it has not died out." -- The Daily Telegraph (1877)
     
  13. The Wogster

    The Wogster Guest

    LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m wrote:
    > Fred wrote:
    >
    >> One of the major components of bicycle racing on the road
    >> is the effect of aerodynamics.

    >
    >
    > I had just taken a sip of Bass Ale, then snorted it out my nose when I
    > heard either Phil Liggett or Paul Sherwen [I don't remember which] say
    > Lance's Trek is the most aerodynamic bike in production. I can only try
    > to imagine how hard it is to think "outside the box" for someone who has
    > never actually been outside the box.
    >


    While Lances bike may be built by Trek, on a standard Trek road frame,
    it's most likely that it has been so highly customized, that it really
    has about as much resemblance to a production bike, as a Formula one
    Honda race car does to the Civic in the showroom.

    W
     
  14. SlowRider

    SlowRider Guest

    Fred wrote:
    > When a group of riders ride closely together, the riders behind the front
    > riders receive a 20 to 35% reduction in the power requirement to travel at
    > the same speed. By trading positions at the front, the riders alternate
    > between resting and working hard. On flat ground the group travels at a
    > constant 30mph for very long distances. Faster than any rider could do over
    > such long distances by themselves.


    I never appreciated that difference until I got to ride in a
    loosely-organized group of 25-30 riders led by some of the local
    hotshots last summer. After an hour I started to get impatient since
    we didn't seem to be doing any work. (Heck, aren't we out here for
    exercise??) I looked down at my computer and it finally dawned on me
    that we were doing over 25 MPH! I didn't have my HRM on, but I don't
    think I was doing more than 100-110, which is a recovery rate for me.
    Heck, half the time I was coasting. The draft in a large group is
    simply amazing.

    I notice with the HRM data they've been showing on OLN, the guys in the
    peloton are in the 95-110 range on flat roads. Given that they're all
    about 15-20 years younger than me, that's probably an easy recovery
    pulse for them, too.


    -JR
     
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    In article <[email protected]>,
    The Wogster <[email protected]> wrote:
    >LioNiNoiL_a t_Y a h 0 0_d 0 t_c 0 m wrote:
    >> Fred wrote:
    >>
    >>> One of the major components of bicycle racing on the road
    >>> is the effect of aerodynamics.

    >>
    >>
    >> I had just taken a sip of Bass Ale, then snorted it out my nose when I
    >> heard either Phil Liggett or Paul Sherwen [I don't remember which] say
    >> Lance's Trek is the most aerodynamic bike in production. I can only try
    >> to imagine how hard it is to think "outside the box" for someone who has
    >> never actually been outside the box.
    >>

    >
    >While Lances bike may be built by Trek, on a standard Trek road frame,
    >it's most likely that it has been so highly customized, that it really
    >has about as much resemblance to a production bike, as a Formula one
    >Honda race car does to the Civic in the showroom.
    >


    _ This is not as true as you would think. For one it would be
    against the UCI rules[1] and for two, those molds are pretty damn
    expensive, even winning the tour is not enough to justify
    building one or ten bikes. What Trek does is build the molds
    to suit Lance and then pumps out ton's of copies. When you
    buy a Madonna or whatever, you're a lot closer to what Lance
    is riding than your civic is to a formula one car.

    _ Booker C. Bense


    [1]_ Racers are supposed to use "production bikes", i.e. a
    bicycle that you can buy, maybe not right now, but eventually.
    UCI rules forbid the use of one off bikes. The rules are an
    attempt to limit the advantage of technology in bicycle racing.

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  16. Bill Sornson

    Bill Sornson Guest

    Booker C. Bense wrote:

    > When you
    > buy a Madonna or whatever, you're a lot closer to what Lance
    > is riding...


    Sheryl is quite a bit younger.

    FWIW, BS
     
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