just a typical cyclist really



B

boulder, MBA

Guest
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm

....heaven forbid he hits a car driver using his mobile ;-)

Cameron 'sorry' for bike mistakes

Conservative leader David Cameron has apologised after being
photographed breaking red lights and cycling the wrong way up a one-way
street.
Pictures in the Daily Mirror newspaper showed the politician breaching
traffic rules as he cycled to work.

"I know it is important to obey traffic laws - but I have obviously
made mistakes on this occasion and I am sorry," Mr Cameron said in a
statement.

But cycling groups defended him, blaming poor regulation and signage.

Cyclist rules

The Mirror followed Mr Cameron on three Wednesdays as he cycled to the
Houses of Parliament from his Notting Hill home.

Friday's newspaper featured Mr Cameron cycling the wrong way up a
one-way street in Dawson Place, breaking a red light in Great George Street,
driving the wrong way around a bollard in the Mall and breaching a red light
at the Houses of Parliament.

But the pictures merely highlighted the difficulties the average
London cyclist faced, said cycling campaign group CTC.

"It shows what an ass cycling regulation (and) traffic management is
in this country at the moment ... we campaign in CTC for things like opening
up one-way streets, which are allowed all over Europe," said director Kevin
Mayne.

"[Mr Cameron] is a yard in front of the white line in front of the
Houses of Parliament - frankly, that's where I'd go to get away from the
cars, he was hardly jumping the light," he said.

He added that the story had also highlighted how difficult "signage
for cyclists is in London".

Hypocrisy?

However, Kevin Clinton, head of road safety for the Royal Society for
the Prevention of Accidents, criticised Mr Cameron.

"It is essential that all road users, including cyclists, obey traffic
laws. The laws are there for everybody's safety and, as always, it is
disappointing when someone in the public eye sets a bad example," he said.

The Tory leader, who has been keen to establish his green credentials,
cycles to work once a week - usually on Wednesday.

He found himself accused of hypocrisy in 2006 for cycling while being
followed by a car carrying his briefcase.

He has since said that this only happened "once or twice".
 
C

calum

Guest
On Mar 21, 12:42 pm, "boulder, MBA" <[email protected]>
wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm
>



Typical cyclist? Not in my experience.

He does no favours for cyclists with such behaviour though.
I'd rather he just stuck to driving rather than give more ammo to
those who would prefer there were no cyclists.

Nice to see him deploy the politicians' obligatory defence of "I've
made mistakes ... and I'm sorry."
Oh well, that's alright then.

Calum
 
E

elyob

Guest
"boulder, MBA" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm
>
> ...heaven forbid he hits a car driver using his mobile ;-)
>
> Cameron 'sorry' for bike mistakes
>
> Conservative leader David Cameron has apologised after being
> photographed breaking red lights and cycling the wrong way up a one-way
> street.
> Pictures in the Daily Mirror newspaper showed the politician
> breaching traffic rules as he cycled to work.
>
> "I know it is important to obey traffic laws - but I have obviously
> made mistakes on this occasion and I am sorry," Mr Cameron said in a
> statement.
>
> But cycling groups defended him, blaming poor regulation and signage.
>


Cycling wrong way up one way street was a big mistake, agreed. They said he
went through a "red man" on the traffic lights, I wasn't aware that it was
law to have to obey these red/green 'proceed' signals for peds and cyclists.
He went through a red light, but stopped ahead of the traffic, shows that
there is good cause to have an ASL there. This isn't red light jumping in
the traditional sense, but self preservation and making himself seen. Can't
remember what the fourth was, but a storm in a teacup.
 
T

TerryJ

Guest
>
> > But cycling groups defended him, blaming poor regulation and signage.

>
> Cycling wrong way up one way street was a big mistake, agreed. They said he
> went through a "red man" on the traffic lights, I wasn't aware that it was
> law to have to obey these red/green 'proceed' signals for peds and cyclists.
> He went through a red light, but stopped ahead of the traffic, shows that
> there is good cause to have an ASL there. This isn't red light jumping in
> the traditional sense, but self preservation and making himself seen. Can't
> remember what the fourth was, but a storm in a teacup.


i agree.The white line is often in an inappropriate place for cyclists
and to put your wheel over it to give better visibility ,or position
in the traffic when the lights change, should be the rule.One way
systems can increase considerably the distance of a journey and the
continentals seem to cope differently with them.
Terry J
 
N

Nick

Guest
boulder, MBA wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm
>
> ...heaven forbid he hits a car driver using his mobile ;-)
>
> Cameron 'sorry' for bike mistakes


>


No doubt he realised he was being followed and for safety reasons need
to break a few laws to avoid the potential risk.

Worked for Jack Straw's police driver in 2001. Although in this case
Cameron actually was being tailed.
 
L

LSMike

Guest
On 21 Mar, 14:56, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> i agree.The white line is often in an inappropriate place for cyclists
> and to put your wheel over it to give better visibility ,or position
> in the traffic when the lights change, should be the rule.One way
> systems can increase considerably the distance of a journey and the
> continentals seem to cope differently with them.
> Terry J


Can't agree with stopping ahead of the line. Sure, it's a minor
issue, but it's unnecessary and illegal. Safety isn't even an excuse,
as if you're the first at the lights, then you should be in the middle
of the lane. If not the first, then it's best to wait behind the
first or second car in the queue, as per John Franklin and Cyclecraft.

Back on topic, how many MPs were caught drinking and driving in the
last year?
 
C

Colin McKenzie

Guest
boulder, MBA wrote:
> The Mirror followed Mr Cameron on three Wednesdays as he cycled to the
> Houses of Parliament from his Notting Hill home.
>
> Friday's newspaper featured Mr Cameron cycling the wrong way up a
> one-way street in Dawson Place, breaking a red light in Great George Street,
> driving the wrong way around a bollard in the Mall and breaching a red light
> at the Houses of Parliament.


If they followed an MP driving to work over a similar route, I bet
they'd break the speed limit more than 4 times.

But that wouldn't be news.

Colin McKenzie

--
No-one has ever proved that cycle helmets make cycling any safer at
the population level, and anyway cycling is about as safe per mile as
walking.
Make an informed choice - visit www.cyclehelmets.org.
 
A

Adrian Boliston

Guest
LSMike wrote:

> Can't agree with stopping ahead of the line. Sure, it's a minor
> issue, but it's unnecessary and illegal. Safety isn't even an excuse,
> as if you're the first at the lights, then you should be in the middle
> of the lane. If not the first, then it's best to wait behind the
> first or second car in the queue, as per John Franklin and Cyclecraft.


I always try and get as far forward as possible at lights as it means I'm
more visible to other traffic and there is less chance of someone "left
hooking" me when the lights go green. I will always put my own safety
above any "white stop line" technicality.
 
M

Martin Dann

Guest
boulder, MBA wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/7308400.stm
>
> ...heaven forbid he hits a car driver using his mobile ;-)
>
> Cameron 'sorry' for bike mistakes
>
> Conservative leader David Cameron has apologised after being
> photographed breaking red lights and cycling the wrong way up a one-way
> street.
> Pictures in the Daily Mirror newspaper showed the politician breaching
> traffic rules as he cycled to work.


If this is the kind of coverage he gets for doing something this
naughty, imagine the coverage he would get if he did something really
bad like lying to these countries and Parliament about why we bombed
another country, or spending 20,000,000,000 ukp of tax payers money to
buy a few votes.


> Friday's newspaper featured Mr Cameron cycling the wrong way up a
> one-way street in Dawson Place, breaking a red light in Great George Street,
> driving the wrong way around a bollard in the Mall and breaching a red light
> at the Houses of Parliament.


I noticed the mirror journalist followed Mr Cameron up the one way
street, and through the red light, I don't think the other two things
were illegal. The RLJ that was illegal was just road positioning, I do
this myself sometimes, (Going over the line, but not entering the
junction on red, I even did it tonight on the way home from work.)


>
> But the pictures merely highlighted the difficulties the average
> London cyclist faced, said cycling campaign group CTC.
>
> "It shows what an ass cycling regulation (and) traffic management is
> in this country at the moment ... we campaign in CTC for things like opening
> up one-way streets, which are allowed all over Europe," said director Kevin
> Mayne.
> Hypocrisy?
>
> However, Kevin Clinton, head of road safety for the Royal Society for
> the Prevention of Accidents, criticised Mr Cameron.
>
> "It is essential that all road users, including cyclists, obey traffic
> laws. The laws are there for everybody's safety and, as always, it is
> disappointing when someone in the public eye sets a bad example," he said.
>
> The Tory leader, who has been keen to establish his green credentials,
> cycles to work once a week - usually on Wednesday.
>
> He found himself accused of hypocrisy in 2006 for cycling while being
> followed by a car carrying his briefcase.
>
> He has since said that this only happened "once or twice".
>
>
>
 
E

elyob

Guest
"LSMike" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]m...
> On 21 Mar, 14:56, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> i agree.The white line is often in an inappropriate place for cyclists
>> and to put your wheel over it to give better visibility ,or position
>> in the traffic when the lights change, should be the rule.One way
>> systems can increase considerably the distance of a journey and the
>> continentals seem to cope differently with them.
>> Terry J

>
> Can't agree with stopping ahead of the line. Sure, it's a minor
> issue, but it's unnecessary and illegal. Safety isn't even an excuse,
> as if you're the first at the lights, then you should be in the middle
> of the lane. If not the first, then it's best to wait behind the
> first or second car in the queue, as per John Franklin and Cyclecraft.


In an ideal world I'd totally agree with you on this Mike, however I think
it's far too simple a decision. If you see the example with Cameron, there
is already a bike in front of the line. Would you sit back here? Personally
I'd have done exactly what Cameron did. He took a controlling position, and
was only flouting a law that was already broken. (And was making his
position unsafe). Franklin's position is all well and good, but a slightly
different law applies in London IMO. Basically it's the law of staying alive
and I'll do whatever is needed to obey this law ...

Must admit, I was told off for encroaching the white line in Belfast once. A
machine gun popped out of the back of an Army land rover and I was told in
no uncertain words that I'd broken the law ... made me think twice. Perhaps
this is something we should do in London?!
 
T

TerryJ

Guest
On 21 Mar, 16:39, LSMike <[email protected]> wrote:
> On 21 Mar, 14:56, TerryJ <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > i agree.The white line is often in an inappropriate place for cyclists
> > and to put your wheel over it to give better visibility ,or position
> > in the traffic when the lights change, should be the rule.One way
> > systems can increase considerably the distance of a journey and the
> > continentals seem to cope differently with them.
> > Terry J

>
> Can't agree with stopping ahead of the line. Sure, it's a minor
> issue, but it's unnecessary and illegal. Safety isn't even an excuse,
> as if you're the first at the lights, then you should be in the middle
> of the lane. If not the first, then it's best to wait behind the
> first or second car in the queue, as per John Franklin and Cyclecraft.
>
> Back on topic, how many MPs were caught drinking and driving in the
> last year?


Here is an example in our village.The white line is 5 metres downhill
of the actual junction.This is to keep the motor vehicles back to
allow buses etc a space to get round the corner. If I take the middle
of the lane that far back the cars behind may not get clear before the
traffic sets off on the main road, even though they went through on
green or amber.And I am not a very slow cyclist.The antics of the
drivers make obeying the law risky, while moving into a better
position on red is obviously the safer and more considerate option.The
traffic designers would not put an advanced stop line there.
There are so many examples of this. indeed I think it is usual for
the line to be a metre or so back from the actual junction. If it
seems at all reasonable to obey the law to the letter I do so. I have
never to my recollection crossed a junction or ped crossing on red.
 
L

LSMike

Guest
On 21 Mar, 22:20, "Adrian Boliston" <[email protected]> wrote:
> LSMike wrote:
> > Can't agree with stopping ahead of the line. Sure, it's a minor
> > issue, but it's unnecessary and illegal. Safety isn't even an excuse,
> > as if you're the first at the lights, then you should be in the middle
> > of the lane. If not the first, then it's best to wait behind the
> > first or second car in the queue, as per John Franklin and Cyclecraft.

>
> I always try and get as far forward as possible at lights as it means I'm
> more visible to other traffic and there is less chance of someone "left
> hooking" me when the lights go green. I will always put my own safety
> above any "white stop line" technicality.


I've never yet come across a junction where there's any need for an
ASL, or to sit ahead of the white line for safety. If you were to do
a bit of injudicious filtering, that might put you in a position where
you'd want to go ahead of the line, but that's just making two
avoidable mistakes.

I've not found a better approach than John Franklin's. This reply can
stand for elyob's and TerryJ's posts too, I think.
 
B

BigRab

Guest
I seem to remember a few years ago (and I am ready to be corrected)
that the ACPO recommended that , in the absence of an ASL, cyclists
were advised to create their own by waiting in the area that would be
created by an ASL.