Just bought a new bike, having knee pain

[geezerjock]

My 20 year old Trek 1000 was undersized for me and the fitting confirmed it. Went with a very nice custom frame after LBS convinced me standard frame size would require too many spacers on head tube. I am experiencing pain behind my right knee and a touch behind my left knee. Can this be a variety of adjustments or primarily seat height?

 

[alfeng]

What is your old bike's frame size?
 
How tall are you?
 
How custom was your custom frame & what are it's dimensions?
 
Do you still have your old bike?

 

[geezerjock]

Old bike frame size.., not sure, I have some measurements from my copy of fitting but not the basic head tube, top tube and seat tube length.
I'm 6'1" and have a longer torso, 32" inseam when buying pants.
New bike top tube length is 55cm, head tube is 22.5cm, seat tube is 57.5cm.. Top tube is a little longer and head tube quite a bit longer than a Lynskey Helix L, which was closest stock size. Not sure what other dimensions you need. Yes still have the old bike.
The shop I bought it from suggested lowering the saddle 2-3mm, which I just did. Also seemed as though the tip of the saddle was biased a little towards the right, so I tried my best to eyeball having it centered. The inside of the right knee is considerably more sore than the left.
I do regret not getting a second fitting to compare before purchasing.
Thanks for the help, let me know what other dimensions you need, I'm going to go ride and try not to hammer it(hard to do, kinda like giving me the keys to a Porsche and saying, now drive mellow"

 

[alfeng]

Okay, I'm a little surprised ([COLOR= #696969]make that "very surprised"[/COLOR]) that your new bike's frame was spec'd with a SHORT 55cm top tube ...
 
This is after-the-fact, but I would think that a 57cm (c-c) top tube is really the shortest length that someone who is 6'1" should probably have unless your handlebars are at the same height (or, higher) as the top of your saddle ...
 
IMO, they should have spec'd a frame with a 57cm top tube & fit the frame with a shorter stem (e.g., 90mm) if you were-or-are uncomfortable with a more conventional fit.
 
Does your new/old bike have have DROP bars or FLAT bars?
 
How upright do you sit?
 
Regardless, presuming your old bike "fit" you without pain AND if your Trek is still in a rideable state, then put it side-by-side with your new bike so that the BBs are aligned ...
 
Set the saddle for the new bike in the SAME position aft-of-the-BB as the saddle on your old bike.
 
Presuming the new bike has the same length cranks, set the saddle at the same relative height as the saddle on your old bike.
 
Compare the distance between the BACK of the saddles ([COLOR= #808080]an arbitrary point to measure from[/COLOR]) to the rear of the horns on the brake levers (this statement presumes you are using Road handlebars) -- again, presuming your old bike "fit" (at least, without the current discomfort[COLOR= #f00]![/COLOR]), you want the brake levers on the new bike to be the same distance (certainly, within an inch) from the rear of the saddle to the horns of the brake levers as on your old bike (this may require a different length stem AND/OR different width handlebars) ...
 
That's a long way of saying that I think you should use your Trek as the template for the initial re-positioning of the saddle/etc. on your new bike ...
 
BTW. A 29er Hardtail with a Rigid Fork (or, even a Cannondale Badboy with a Headshok fork) would probably have given you the stem height you wanted.

 

[geezerjock]

Old bike and new bike are drops. The Trek was fine from the waist down but was increasingly causing some back pain and a lot of shoulder pain. So the new bike purposely was supposed to be a bit more upright. I did lower the saddle and no pain behind knee, but on my 55 miler this Sunday I lost most power after about 40 miles and my glutes are tender/little sore, my right hamstring a little sore/tender and my left hamstring is very sore. LBS suggested moving saddle back about 1-2mm since I lowered saddle about 3mm. Another factor we came up with is my Trek came with an oblong crank instead of perfectly round. I guess the current term is biopace. LBS and I have a hunch this may be a factor. I have been perceiving more effort to go fast despite the 9 pound weight savings of the new bike and I haven't felt like I've been putting down as much power on the new bike as the old. My numbers are a smidge faster with avg heartrate about 8-12 BPM more. I was expecting a smidge faster at same effort and moderately faster with a harder effort. I was able to do 85-105 miles on old bike with only the familiar back and shoulder issues and have legs be OK next day. Now the back and shoulders are OK, but last 2 long rides my legs give out considerably after 40-50 miles.

I will compare riding position on both bikes, but I have no saddle on the Trek. It was removed to try out a new saddle and I never put the old one back on. But the stem is still on and I remember having tip of saddle to the center/forward tip of handlebar stem about the same length as measuring from the tip of my fingers to the top of the arm where it meets the shoulder.

 

[geezerjock]

Went to LBS to address the increased soreness in hamstrings and glutes and feeling is after riding for 20+ years on the biopace chainring the round chainring is using less of my stronger muscles (quads & calves) and more of my weaker group (hamstrings and glutes) Compared the size with my old trek and the cockpit is very similar, with the hoods giving me a more upright, straighter spine position than the Trek. Moved the seat back 1cm to get more power from my quads. Will see where it goes and adjust seat back another 1cm and/or move cleats back a bit. It really is like taking the winter off and building the first springtime miles. I need to do more stretching, more recovery rides and warm up and cool down after rides. Also need to ride more frequently, even if I can only get 30 minutes in to develop new muscle memory. My plan is to see how things go through early summer. If it is still an issue then, I will consider getting a different, more elliptical chainring.

 

[kdelong]

I don't know if your Biopace Chainring is the culprit here. I have been riding with Biopace Chainrings since they first came out in the mid 80's, but once a year I get out my trusty old Raleigh for a vintage bike century. My Raleigh has round chainrings as it was manufactured before Biopace Chainrings were invented. I have not had any knee issues. Now granted, we are two different people and we probably have different physiologies and different bike set-ups. But it really sounds more like a change in your seat position in relation to your pedals. Did you go to longer or shorter crank arm lengths?

 

[geezerjock]

Same size crank arm.

 

[zaohua768]

The Trek was fine from the waist down but was increasingly causing some back pain and a lot of shoulder pain. So the new bike purposely was supposed to be a bit more upright. I did lower the saddle and no pain behind knee, but on my 55 miler this Sunday I lost most power after about 40 miles and my glutes are tender/little sore, my right hamstring a little sore/tender and my left hamstring is very sore. LBS suggested moving saddle back about 1-2mm since I lowered saddle about 3mm. Another factor we came up with is my Trek came with an oblong crank instead of perfectly round. I guess the current term is biopace. LBS and I have a hunch this may be a factor. I have been perceiving more effort to go fast despite the 9 pound weight savings of the new bike and I haven't felt like I've been putting down as much power on the new bike as the old. My numbers are a smidge faster with avg heartrate about 8-12 BPM more. I was expecting a smidge faster at same effort and moderately faster with a harder effort. I was able to do 85-105 miles on old bike with only the familiar back and shoulder issues and have legs be OK next day. Now the back and shoulders are OK, but last 2 long rides my legs give out considerably after 40-50 miles.
My 20 year old Trek 1000 was undersized for me and the fitting confirmed it. Went with a very nice custom frame after LBS convinced me standard frame size would require too many spacers on head tube. I am experiencing pain behind my right knee and a touch behind my left knee. Can this be a variety of adjustments or primarily seat height?



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[alfeng]

Since you weren't getting at what I was hinting at with regard to your old bike -- for your consideration ....

• Return the saddle to your Trek in its previous position ... ride ... assess.

• If the pain is mitigated, then consider putting the Biopace rings on your new bike ... if the BCD is different, go onto eBay and find rings that fit your new bike's crankset.

• AND, most of all, ensure that the position of the saddle on the new bike is as close to the relative position as possible as it was on your Trek.

Good luck!