Just found out about recumbents..need to know more...

Discussion in 'Recumbent bicycles' started by Elhanan Maayan, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. hi all...

    i've recently been to a bike show in my city where first saw one these
    things.

    it looked pretty cool, and i'm considering getting one but i'm a
    little worried about a few things.

    i currentl use TREK 7500 for my commuting, it a carries heavy load of
    a 15" latptio bag, bike cover, a 1.5 meter chain and clothing bag, all
    in a tatonka bag (2 massive side panniers). 13 kg total, i don't know
    if the bents can handle it.

    the only firm in israel which sells bend is
    http://www.challengebikes.com/

    have you heard about them..

    the last time i got something isoteric was a bike with an electric
    motor, the warrnanty was only half a year and even this was not
    honoured as the motor died a couple of months (was senstive to shocks,
    when i jumped from sidewalk to the road) are the bents also fragile?

    are the bents really faster then regualr bikes, i'm 6'3 173 pounds. i
    can each around 30 kph normally on my trek, and 45 maximum (with
    baggage_, i was told i can reach 40-50 kph normal speed in a bent and
    90-100 kph maximum.

    is it really harder to climb with them (i only travel in the city, i
    barely have to stand on my bikes when climbing).

    last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.

    what do u think?
     
    Tags:


  2. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    [...]
    > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    >
    > what do u think?


    My God almighty! Riding any kind of a bike on the roads in Israel is
    positively suicidal. Don't you know those Arab Muslim bastards are trying to
    kill you? If you want to ride a bicycle, you had best think about emigrating
    to America. The only kind of vehicle I would want to be in in Israel is a
    tank - and I would always shoot first and ask questions later.

    Death to the Muslim foe! And g.d. Fucking France all the way to hell and
    back while we are at it. And God bless Israel, the only civilized state in
    the entire Middle East!

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  3. Bob Parnass

    Bob Parnass Guest

    On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:38:03 -0700, Elhanan Maayan wrote:


    > i've recently been to a bike show in my city where first saw one these
    > things.


    Suggest you start reading this web site, devoted to
    recumbent bikes and trikes:

    http://www.bentrideronline.com

    It has an excellent message board and a buyers' guide
    which surveys many of the bents available.

    Have fun.
    --
    =========================================================================
    Bob Parnass, AJ9S GNU/Linux User http://parnass.com
     
  4. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Bob Parnass" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:p[email protected]
    > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 02:38:03 -0700, Elhanan Maayan wrote:
    >
    >
    >> i've recently been to a bike show in my city where first saw one these
    >> things.

    >
    > Suggest you start reading this web site, devoted to
    > recumbent bikes and trikes:
    >
    > http://www.bentrideronline.com
    >
    > It has an excellent message board and a buyers' guide
    > which surveys many of the bents available.
    >
    > Have fun.


    Elhanan is not going to have any fun cycling in Israel. He is going to get
    himself killed. Most areas of the world are not suited for cycling because
    of cultural and other anomalies (like constant warfare and civil unrest).
    America and Western Europe are peculiar in this regard for being more or
    less civilized and so are suitable for cycling. Most of the rest of the
    world, including Israel, is not. It is not even safe to cycle in the cities
    of Israel, but it is suicidal to venture forth on the roads outside of the
    cities. Elhanan should completely forget about cycling. Maybe someday his
    children will be able to do something so simple which we in the West take
    for granted, but it is not for him, not now and not in Israel.

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  5. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Elhanan Maayan wrote:

    > i currentl use TREK 7500 for my commuting, it a carries heavy load of
    > a 15" latptio bag, bike cover, a 1.5 meter chain and clothing bag, all
    > in a tatonka bag (2 massive side panniers). 13 kg total, i don't know
    > if the bents can handle it.


    There's 'bents and there's 'bents. Just as you wouldn't try and hang 13
    extra Kg on the back of a featherweight upright racer, so it would be
    silly to do the same on a minimalist racing recumbent, but a design
    aimed at loading should take it easily. I know for certain that mine
    would handle that no problem.

    > the only firm in israel which sells bend is
    > http://www.challengebikes.com/
    >
    > have you heard about them..


    Yes, one of the Dutch "Big 3" along with Optima and M5.

    > are the bents also fragile?


    Again the case that some will be, others won't. It isn't any more
    generic than it is with upright bikes, you take them on a case by case
    basis.

    > are the bents really faster then regualr bikes, i'm 6'3 173 pounds. i
    > can each around 30 kph normally on my trek, and 45 maximum (with
    > baggage_, i was told i can reach 40-50 kph normal speed in a bent and
    > 90-100 kph maximum.


    Again the case that some will be, others won't. It isn't any more
    generic than it is with upright bikes, you take them on a case by case
    basis. If you get something like a Challenge Fujin or Taifun then
    there's a good chance you'll be quicker. But there are plenty which
    won't be any faster. Mine (an HP Velotechnik Streetmachine GT) is no
    faster than my old upright tourer, but being an order of magnitude more
    comfortable and giving me a head-up view of where I'm going makes it
    more enjoyable for me to ride, so I don't really care. I didn't buy it
    go fast.

    > is it really harder to climb with them (i only travel in the city, i
    > barely have to stand on my bikes when climbing).


    All else being equal they're generally heavier, so that makes climbing
    harder. But harder does not mean "can't climb". I regularly climb 150m
    (vertical distance, not horizontal!) hills on mine, and have done so
    with full touring/camping gear on board. As long as you have suitable
    gears you can get up hills.

    > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.


    They're not intrinsically worse than uprights. The braking tends to be
    better, and if you hit something you don't fly over the handlebars. You
    hit things feet first, not head first.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  6. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    [email protected] (Elhanan Maayan) wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > hi all...
    >
    > i've recently been to a bike show in my city where first saw one these
    > things.
    >
    > it looked pretty cool, and i'm considering getting one but i'm a
    > little worried about a few things.
    >
    > i currentl use TREK 7500 for my commuting, it a carries heavy load of
    > a 15" latptio bag, bike cover, a 1.5 meter chain and clothing bag, all
    > in a tatonka bag (2 massive side panniers). 13 kg total, i don't know
    > if the bents can handle it.
    >


    Sure, no problem. I know one guy who weighs close to 280 pounds and
    had ridden his Easy Racer recumbent across the United States- in 28
    days. Mine's fine with a small touring load (about 25 pounds) and me
    in the seat- I weigh 220 pounds nowadays.

    > the only firm in israel which sells bend is
    > http://www.challengebikes.com/
    >
    > have you heard about them..
    >


    They build good bikes. I haven't seen many of them here in the U.S.,
    but they're popular in Europe. Bentrideronline is your best source of
    information.

    > the last time i got something isoteric was a bike with an electric
    > motor, the warrnanty was only half a year and even this was not
    > honoured as the motor died a couple of months (was senstive to shocks,
    > when i jumped from sidewalk to the road) are the bents also fragile?
    >


    It depends on the bike. If you buy an ultralight bike and then go
    jumping off of curbs, you can expect it to break. Challenge builds a
    range of bikes- from lightweight racers to heavy-duty tourers. I think
    you would want something from the touring side.

    > are the bents really faster then regualr bikes, i'm 6'3 173 pounds. i
    > can each around 30 kph normally on my trek, and 45 maximum (with
    > baggage_, i was told i can reach 40-50 kph normal speed in a bent and
    > 90-100 kph maximum.
    >


    Well, I'm you height, but about 50 pounds heavier. At first I was
    slower than my upright, but the muscles adjusted and I was soon a
    little faster. I doubt that you'll be 30% faster on a recumbent,
    though- I find that speed claims fro recumbents are often inflated.
    Faster and more comfortable, certainly- but not by that margin.

    > is it really harder to climb with them (i only travel in the city, i
    > barely have to stand on my bikes when climbing).
    >


    If you rarely stand, then you'll be fine. Recumbents require more gear
    shifting than uprights, but you'll quickly adjust.

    > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    >
    > what do u think?


    Riding a bike anywhere is dangerous, so it's up to you to make
    judgements. I used to ride throughout Los Angeles and never had a
    problem.

    Jeff
     
  7. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Jeff Wills" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > [email protected] (Elhanan Maayan) wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...

    [...]
    >> last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    >> rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    >>
    >> what do u think?

    >
    > Riding a bike anywhere is dangerous, so it's up to you to make
    > judgements. I used to ride throughout Los Angeles and never had a
    > problem.


    I don't believe there are as yet any Muslim terrorists trying to blow you up
    on the streets of Los Angeles, but maybe if Kerry wins that will soon be the
    case since he believes that terrorists are nothing but a nuisance and we can
    revert to police action to handle them - which is all that Clinton ever did
    about it also. However, right now, Israel is not Los Angeles, and it is
    indeed extremely dangerous to go out on a bike there. Jeff needs to get up
    to speed on what is happening in the world.

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  8. GOD

    GOD Guest

    Elhanan,

    You have just woken our resident Troll
    You can take anything he says and be
    certain it is WRONG

    No more shrub - Nov 2 2004,
    USAians of course



    Edward Dolan wrote:

    > "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > [...]
    >
    >>last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    >>rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    >>
    >>what do u think?

    >
    >
    > My God almighty! Riding any kind of a bike on the roads in Israel is
    > positively suicidal. Don't you know those Arab Muslim bastards are trying to
    > kill you? If you want to ride a bicycle, you had best think about emigrating
    > to America. The only kind of vehicle I would want to be in in Israel is a
    > tank - and I would always shoot first and ask questions later.
    >
    > Death to the Muslim foe! And g.d. Fucking France all the way to hell and
    > back while we are at it. And God bless Israel, the only civilized state in
    > the entire Middle East!
    >
     
  9. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "GOD" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Elhanan,
    >
    > You have just woken our resident Troll
    > You can take anything he says and be
    > certain it is WRONG
    >
    > No more shrub - Nov 2 2004,
    > USAians of course


    Another idiot top poster!

    You want to take seriously anything someone says who posts under the moniker
    GOD, go right ahead. He is crazy as a loon of course and ought to be taken
    out and stoned to death to spare the rest of us his idiocies.

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota


    > Edward Dolan wrote:
    >
    >> "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> [...]
    >>
    >>>last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    >>>rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    >>>
    >>>what do u think?

    >>
    >>
    >> My God almighty! Riding any kind of a bike on the roads in Israel is
    >> positively suicidal. Don't you know those Arab Muslim bastards are trying
    >> to kill you? If you want to ride a bicycle, you had best think about
    >> emigrating to America. The only kind of vehicle I would want to be in in
    >> Israel is a tank - and I would always shoot first and ask questions
    >> later.
    >>
    >> Death to the Muslim foe! And g.d. Fucking France all the way to hell and
    >> back while we are at it. And God bless Israel, the only civilized state
    >> in the entire Middle East!
    >>

    >
     
  10. Jeff Wills

    Jeff Wills Guest

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    Jeff needs to get up
    > to speed on what is happening in the world.


    Let's see- I was born in Holland. I've traveled through most of North
    America, plus Taiwan, Germany and France. My dad's currently in China
    and my little sister's in Yemen...

    Yes, Ed, I know what's happening in the world.

    Jeff
     
  11. "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > [...]
    > > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    > > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    > >
    > > what do u think?

    >
    > My God almighty! Riding any kind of a bike on the roads in Israel is
    > positively suicidal. Don't you know those Arab Muslim bastards are trying to
    > kill you? If you want to ride a bicycle, you had best think about emigrating
    > to America. The only kind of vehicle I would want to be in in Israel is a
    > tank - and I would always shoot first and ask questions later.
    >
    > Death to the Muslim foe! And g.d. Fucking France all the way to hell and
    > back while we are at it. And God bless Israel, the only civilized state in
    > the entire Middle East!



    Well you partially correct, if you would have talked to any cyclist in
    israel, they would say the same, that's sucicdal, but not becouse of
    terrorits, but becouse of ISRAELI DRIVERS themselves, they considered,
    rude, impulsive, disgragrd to anything else. although i myself have
    not stumbled into them.
    the accidents u'll hear about are when a bus throws off a cyclist off
    the road, of a freak accident when a truck wheel disconnects (loose
    screwing) from it up hill and goes down the hill killing a cyclist
    (no, really).

    infact if you look at the terrists aspect, it safer to ride a bike
    then ride a bus. (simply count how many terrorists kill cyclist and
    how many kill bus riders).

    u'll be very popular in some right wing factions we have here.

    and if u think kerry is bad, at least YOU have a democracy, in our
    'plant' our prime minister FIRES ministers becouse he didn't get their
    vote about his descisons, which btw are in complete contrast to his
    own party line which got him elected in the first place.
    he plans to evict thousands of jews from their homes even though he
    throw a pole in his party, commiting to abide by that pole, but even
    though pole results were DRASTICALLLY against him, the simply ignored
    it and moved on.

    let's see kerry do that in usa.
     
  12. i'm talking about the mistral or hurricane models .

    the mistral looks more fit for packing, but will it be faster?
    (otherwise there not much point of getting it).
    so it it faster or fragile?


    Peter Clinch <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Elhanan Maayan wrote:
    >
    > > i currentl use TREK 7500 for my commuting, it a carries heavy load of
    > > a 15" latptio bag, bike cover, a 1.5 meter chain and clothing bag, all
    > > in a tatonka bag (2 massive side panniers). 13 kg total, i don't know
    > > if the bents can handle it.

    >
    > There's 'bents and there's 'bents. Just as you wouldn't try and hang 13
    > extra Kg on the back of a featherweight upright racer, so it would be
    > silly to do the same on a minimalist racing recumbent, but a design
    > aimed at loading should take it easily. I know for certain that mine
    > would handle that no problem.
    >
    > > the only firm in israel which sells bend is
    > > http://www.challengebikes.com/
    > >
    > > have you heard about them..

    >
    > Yes, one of the Dutch "Big 3" along with Optima and M5.
    >
    > > are the bents also fragile?

    >
    > Again the case that some will be, others won't. It isn't any more
    > generic than it is with upright bikes, you take them on a case by case
    > basis.
    >
    > > are the bents really faster then regualr bikes, i'm 6'3 173 pounds. i
    > > can each around 30 kph normally on my trek, and 45 maximum (with
    > > baggage_, i was told i can reach 40-50 kph normal speed in a bent and
    > > 90-100 kph maximum.

    >
    > Again the case that some will be, others won't. It isn't any more
    > generic than it is with upright bikes, you take them on a case by case
    > basis. If you get something like a Challenge Fujin or Taifun then
    > there's a good chance you'll be quicker. But there are plenty which
    > won't be any faster. Mine (an HP Velotechnik Streetmachine GT) is no
    > faster than my old upright tourer, but being an order of magnitude more
    > comfortable and giving me a head-up view of where I'm going makes it
    > more enjoyable for me to ride, so I don't really care. I didn't buy it
    > go fast.
    >
    > > is it really harder to climb with them (i only travel in the city, i
    > > barely have to stand on my bikes when climbing).

    >
    > All else being equal they're generally heavier, so that makes climbing
    > harder. But harder does not mean "can't climb". I regularly climb 150m
    > (vertical distance, not horizontal!) hills on mine, and have done so
    > with full touring/camping gear on board. As long as you have suitable
    > gears you can get up hills.
    >
    > > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    > > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.

    >
    > They're not intrinsically worse than uprights. The braking tends to be
    > better, and if you hit something you don't fly over the handlebars. You
    > hit things feet first, not head first.
    >
    > Pete.
     
  13. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:<[email protected]>...
    >> "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >> [...]
    >> > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    >> > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    >> >
    >> > what do u think?

    >>
    >> My God almighty! Riding any kind of a bike on the roads in Israel is
    >> positively suicidal. Don't you know those Arab Muslim bastards are trying
    >> to
    >> kill you? If you want to ride a bicycle, you had best think about
    >> emigrating
    >> to America. The only kind of vehicle I would want to be in in Israel is a
    >> tank - and I would always shoot first and ask questions later.
    >>
    >> Death to the Muslim foe! And g.d. Fucking France all the way to hell and
    >> back while we are at it. And God bless Israel, the only civilized state
    >> in
    >> the entire Middle East!

    >
    >
    > Well you partially correct, if you would have talked to any cyclist in
    > israel, they would say the same, that's sucicdal, but not becouse of
    > terrorits, but becouse of ISRAELI DRIVERS themselves, they considered,
    > rude, impulsive, disgragrd to anything else. although i myself have
    > not stumbled into them.
    > the accidents u'll hear about are when a bus throws off a cyclist off
    > the road, of a freak accident when a truck wheel disconnects (loose
    > screwing) from it up hill and goes down the hill killing a cyclist
    > (no, really).
    >
    > infact if you look at the terrists aspect, it safer to ride a bike
    > then ride a bus. (simply count how many terrorists kill cyclist and
    > how many kill bus riders).


    Terrorism is your number one problem in Israel. We Americans are so stupid
    that we don't think it could ever happen to us. That is why 9/11 is so
    valuable for us - if only we can learn from it. Kerry and the liberal Dems
    obviously still don't have a clue. Fortunately, we have Bush for President
    who knows that the only way to deal with terrorists is to hunt them down and
    kill them.

    > u'll be very popular in some right wing factions we have here.


    I would be totally right wing if I were an Israeli. There is nothing to talk
    about with suicide bombers. Your Prime Minister is not nearly tough enough
    on the Arab Muslims. I would wage total war on them and forcibly expel them
    into Jordan, their true Palestinian state.

    > and if u think kerry is bad, at least YOU have a democracy, in our
    > 'plant' our prime minister FIRES ministers becouse he didn't get their
    > vote about his descisons, which btw are in complete contrast to his
    > own party line which got him elected in the first place.
    > he plans to evict thousands of jews from their homes even though he
    > throw a pole in his party, commiting to abide by that pole, but even
    > though pole results were DRASTICALLLY against him, the simply ignored
    > it and moved on.


    You have a democracy in Israel. It is a parliamentary system as opposed to a
    presidential system, so it functions a bit different. The g.d. Arabs have
    still to prove they are even capable of democracy. The recent elections in
    Afghanistan are a good omen and the upcoming elections in Iraq will be very
    important, not just for Iraq, but for the entire Middle East.

    I consider Israel to be the only democracy in the Middle East with the
    possible exception of Turkey. Hopefully, that will change soon as a result
    of American interference in the region.

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  14. Peter Clinch

    Peter Clinch Guest

    Elhanan Maayan wrote:
    > i'm talking about the mistral or hurricane models .
    >
    > the mistral looks more fit for packing, but will it be faster?
    > (otherwise there not much point of getting it).
    > so it it faster or fragile?


    The Mistral should take lowrider racks under the seat as well as a rear
    rack. The Hurricane will be faster, because it's lower, but it will
    still take stuff on a rear rack no problem and if you get recumbent
    specific side bags they'll give you plenty of carrying capacity on a
    Hurricane. My gf's Nazca is a similarly low bike but with the Radical
    side panniers at 55 litres the pair it was fine on tour. See the pic on
    http://www.personal.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/tdn6.htm for a semi-low fully
    laden for real touring that isn't a publicity shot!

    After my experience of the Mistral on a test ride last year I would want
    to get front suspension, which is an option. It was a bit of a
    teeth-rattler on anything other than smooth tarmac without it! If at
    all possible you should give a bike a try before you buy. Roos and I
    were both a bit underwhelmed by the Mistral (seat didn't really agree
    with us, plus the vibration noted above), but horses for courses and it
    might be just the thing for you. Personally, I'd sooner take a
    Hurricane of the two mentioned if I just had paper stats to rely on.

    Finally, for loading note that Mistral's "default" rack doesn't do
    panniers as it doesn't have doglegs, but looking at their site there are
    doglegged racks so I think these are an option. The standard one would
    be fine with a rackpack, but if you want panniers look for doglegs.
    These aren't /necessary/ for side bags, but should probably help.

    Pete.
    --
    Peter Clinch Medical Physics IT Officer
    Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Univ. of Dundee, Ninewells Hospital
    Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
    net [email protected] http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/
     
  15. i agree that the terrorism is our number one problem, but in regards
    to roads and bikes, the number one problem there is the lack for trail
    bikes.

    i'm afraid to burst your bubble but israeli is only a democracy by
    name.
    to give you more examples then the one i gave you, did you know that
    right wings activists can be thrown out to jail, and being kept there
    for months wout been given a trial or a lawyer? on activies was even
    charged 30!!! times, but was equited 95% of the times, (harrasment
    anyone?)

    our judicial system can overide our goverment and it does so numerious
    times, always siding with the arabs.
    the reason why it seems a democracy is becouse there is no one person
    (like sadam hussain) runnings, you won't find torture chambers (well
    mostly), or mass execution becouse u won't need, our entire control
    system is being governed by a collective of press officials , courts
    and procecutors. each one defending each other, ALL of them are siding
    arabs, and contribute to the destuction of israel (why, becouse they
    hate themselves) they ppl, are too tired, scared to do anything about,
    we ourselves don't have collective, are always go accroding to what
    newspapers write (the main ones are left wings).
    then put someone else in the seat you say?
    really? how?

    put better judges in the courts. that would be nice in theory, but
    israel the only democracy that does now allow it's judges to be
    selcted by politcians, but rather under a secret commiette composed,
    of 3 judges 3 lawyers, and 3 yes politicans, sounds fair, but don't
    forget that both the lawyers and politicans may have to stand infront
    of the judges, and will never do anything that would make them angry,
    (jury, what jury?)
    then let's put someone else in the justice department? hmm been there
    tried that, as soon as someone who was considered a threat was
    nominated the procecutors cooked up a charge about not dotting the i's
    on a contract, as the trial begun he was disqualfied from being
    nonimated, his replacment also faced charges, how this time these
    charges were slowly being proccessed, and u might say he was held
    captive by them , he did exactly what he was told, nonminated exactly
    the ppl he was told, he lived in fear.

    how about the media, israel is a small state, and has a handfull of
    monopolly media mongouls, who off course have the left wing approach,
    you cannot compete with them becouse they have cornered the market.
    even if you do try, the entire critics system, will bash it down if
    it's from the wrong wing. we have a few right wing papers but their
    distribution is limited.
    radio, you can't just opened a radio station, it must be approved by
    well you know who.

    each time you try to place with the wrong opinions the entire system
    screams bluddy murder saying its should only for 'profetional' reasons
    not politics (which we all know is dirty)..

    this is a close circut system, you can get in, you can't replace it.
    my dad knows much more about it then i do. sorry for the spelling.

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:<[email protected]>...
    > >> "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > >> news:[email protected]
    > >> [...]
    > >> > last but least, riding a bike in the roads of israel is considred
    > >> > rather dangerous, i don't know about bents.
    > >> >
    > >> > what do u think?
    > >>
    > >> My God almighty! Riding any kind of a bike on the roads in Israel is
    > >> positively suicidal. Don't you know those Arab Muslim bastards are trying
    > >> to
    > >> kill you? If you want to ride a bicycle, you had best think about
    > >> emigrating
    > >> to America. The only kind of vehicle I would want to be in in Israel is a
    > >> tank - and I would always shoot first and ask questions later.
    > >>
    > >> Death to the Muslim foe! And g.d. Fucking France all the way to hell and
    > >> back while we are at it. And God bless Israel, the only civilized state
    > >> in
    > >> the entire Middle East!

    > >
    > >
    > > Well you partially correct, if you would have talked to any cyclist in
    > > israel, they would say the same, that's sucicdal, but not becouse of
    > > terrorits, but becouse of ISRAELI DRIVERS themselves, they considered,
    > > rude, impulsive, disgragrd to anything else. although i myself have
    > > not stumbled into them.
    > > the accidents u'll hear about are when a bus throws off a cyclist off
    > > the road, of a freak accident when a truck wheel disconnects (loose
    > > screwing) from it up hill and goes down the hill killing a cyclist
    > > (no, really).
    > >
    > > infact if you look at the terrists aspect, it safer to ride a bike
    > > then ride a bus. (simply count how many terrorists kill cyclist and
    > > how many kill bus riders).

    >
    > Terrorism is your number one problem in Israel. We Americans are so stupid
    > that we don't think it could ever happen to us. That is why 9/11 is so
    > valuable for us - if only we can learn from it. Kerry and the liberal Dems
    > obviously still don't have a clue. Fortunately, we have Bush for President
    > who knows that the only way to deal with terrorists is to hunt them down and
    > kill them.
    >
    > > u'll be very popular in some right wing factions we have here.

    >
    > I would be totally right wing if I were an Israeli. There is nothing to talk
    > about with suicide bombers. Your Prime Minister is not nearly tough enough
    > on the Arab Muslims. I would wage total war on them and forcibly expel them
    > into Jordan, their true Palestinian state.
    >
    > > and if u think kerry is bad, at least YOU have a democracy, in our
    > > 'plant' our prime minister FIRES ministers becouse he didn't get their
    > > vote about his descisons, which btw are in complete contrast to his
    > > own party line which got him elected in the first place.
    > > he plans to evict thousands of jews from their homes even though he
    > > throw a pole in his party, commiting to abide by that pole, but even
    > > though pole results were DRASTICALLLY against him, the simply ignored
    > > it and moved on.

    >
    > You have a democracy in Israel. It is a parliamentary system as opposed to a
    > presidential system, so it functions a bit different. The g.d. Arabs have
    > still to prove they are even capable of democracy. The recent elections in
    > Afghanistan are a good omen and the upcoming elections in Iraq will be very
    > important, not just for Iraq, but for the entire Middle East.
    >
    > I consider Israel to be the only democracy in the Middle East with the
    > possible exception of Turkey. Hopefully, that will change soon as a result
    > of American interference in the region.
     
  16. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Elhanan Maayan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >i agree that the terrorism is our number one problem, but in regards
    > to roads and bikes, the number one problem there is the lack for trail
    > bikes.
    >
    > i'm afraid to burst your bubble but israeli is only a democracy by
    > name.
    > to give you more examples then the one i gave you, did you know that
    > right wings activists can be thrown out to jail, and being kept there
    > for months wout been given a trial or a lawyer? on activies was even
    > charged 30!!! times, but was equited 95% of the times, (harrasment
    > anyone?)
    >
    > our judicial system can overide our goverment and it does so numerious
    > times, always siding with the arabs.
    > the reason why it seems a democracy is becouse there is no one person
    > (like sadam hussain) runnings, you won't find torture chambers (well
    > mostly), or mass execution becouse u won't need, our entire control
    > system is being governed by a collective of press officials , courts
    > and procecutors. each one defending each other, ALL of them are siding
    > arabs, and contribute to the destuction of israel (why, becouse they
    > hate themselves) they ppl, are too tired, scared to do anything about,
    > we ourselves don't have collective, are always go accroding to what
    > newspapers write (the main ones are left wings).
    > then put someone else in the seat you say?
    > really? how?
    >
    > put better judges in the courts. that would be nice in theory, but
    > israel the only democracy that does now allow it's judges to be
    > selcted by politcians, but rather under a secret commiette composed,
    > of 3 judges 3 lawyers, and 3 yes politicans, sounds fair, but don't
    > forget that both the lawyers and politicans may have to stand infront
    > of the judges, and will never do anything that would make them angry,
    > (jury, what jury?)
    > then let's put someone else in the justice department? hmm been there
    > tried that, as soon as someone who was considered a threat was
    > nominated the procecutors cooked up a charge about not dotting the i's
    > on a contract, as the trial begun he was disqualfied from being
    > nonimated, his replacment also faced charges, how this time these
    > charges were slowly being proccessed, and u might say he was held
    > captive by them , he did exactly what he was told, nonminated exactly
    > the ppl he was told, he lived in fear.
    >
    > how about the media, israel is a small state, and has a handfull of
    > monopolly media mongouls, who off course have the left wing approach,
    > you cannot compete with them becouse they have cornered the market.
    > even if you do try, the entire critics system, will bash it down if
    > it's from the wrong wing. we have a few right wing papers but their
    > distribution is limited.
    > radio, you can't just opened a radio station, it must be approved by
    > well you know who.
    >
    > each time you try to place with the wrong opinions the entire system
    > screams bluddy murder saying its should only for 'profetional' reasons
    > not politics (which we all know is dirty)..
    >
    > this is a close circut system, you can get in, you can't replace it.
    > my dad knows much more about it then i do. sorry for the spelling.


    Thanks for the informative post.

    Your Israeli institutions do not seem any different than ours. We too are
    plagued with liberal media and liberal judges. What else is new? Democratic
    government can never be perfect, but as long as there is opportunity to
    change administrations from time to time via elections, that is the best we
    can hope for.

    Never mind about your spelling. English is obviously not your first
    language. I admire tremendously anyone who can master a second language,
    something I could never do.

    --
    Best Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  17. Mark Leuck

    Mark Leuck Guest

    "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >
    > Never mind about your spelling. English is obviously not your first
    > language. I admire tremendously anyone who can master a second language,
    > something I could never do.
    >
    > --
    > Best Regards,
    >
    > Ed Dolan - Minnesota


    from what i can tell u have yet to master anything yet
     
  18. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "Mark Leuck" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s04...
    >
    > "Edward Dolan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >>
    >> Never mind about your spelling. English is obviously not your first
    >> language. I admire tremendously anyone who can master a second language,
    >> something I could never do.
    >>
    >> --
    >> Best Regards,
    >>
    >> Ed Dolan - Minnesota

    >
    > from what i can tell u have yet to master anything yet


    Careful there Leuck. You are starting to step on my posts when they have
    nothing to do with you. Either respond to the substance of what I say or I
    will return the favor. If I do that, you and the rest of the group will not
    like it much, but you already know what I think of you and the rest of the
    group. This is the second time I have warned you about this. From now on
    there will be instant retaliation. There is absolutely nothing that you can
    say on any topic that I cannot think of something to say about what you say
    and about you personally for good measure. Be warned!

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
  19. G. Morgan

    G. Morgan Guest

    On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:57:06 -0500 "Edward Dolan"
    used 33 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
    alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent

    >Careful there Leuck. You are starting to step on my posts when they have
    >nothing to do with you. Either respond to the substance of what I say or I
    >will return the favor. If I do that, you and the rest of the group will not
    >like it much, but you already know what I think of you and the rest of the
    >group. This is the second time I have warned you about this. From now on
    >there will be instant retaliation. There is absolutely nothing that you can
    >say on any topic that I cannot think of something to say about what you say
    >and about you personally for good measure. Be warned!



    Hey Ed, is this you?

    http://learningcommons.evergreen.edu/institutes/resourceFac.asp?cID=6079


    -Graham

    Remove the 'snails' from my email
     
  20. Edward Dolan

    Edward Dolan Guest

    "G. Morgan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 02:57:06 -0500 "Edward Dolan"
    > used 33 lines of text to write in newsgroup:
    > alt.rec.bicycles.recumbent
    >
    >>Careful there Leuck. You are starting to step on my posts when they have
    >>nothing to do with you. Either respond to the substance of what I say or I
    >>will return the favor. If I do that, you and the rest of the group will
    >>not
    >>like it much, but you already know what I think of you and the rest of the
    >>group. This is the second time I have warned you about this. From now on
    >>there will be instant retaliation. There is absolutely nothing that you
    >>can
    >>say on any topic that I cannot think of something to say about what you
    >>say
    >>and about you personally for good measure. Be warned!

    >
    >
    > Hey Ed, is this you?
    >
    > http://learningcommons.evergreen.edu/institutes/resourceFac.asp?cID=6079


    No, it is not me. It is always somewhat upsetting to discover there is
    someone else in the universe with your name. I guess that is the reason for
    middle names and birth and death dates. Librarians who are catalogers have
    an amazingly difficult time with author's names because there are so very
    many authors with almost the exact same name. The only thing we can be sure
    of is that this other Ed Dolan is also of Irish extraction. But I am much
    better looking than him.

    However, I once ran into a gal on the North Dakota ride (CANDISC) whose last
    name was the same as mine, so I automatically assumed she was Irish too. It
    turned out she was Norwegian and not even Catholic, but a Lutheran! Are
    there any Norwegians on this group who can make sense of this? The only
    thought that occurred to me is that maybe in Norway it was Dolen or Doelen
    or some other variant spelling and when that family emigrated to America
    they changed the spelling of the name to make it look and sound more
    American. I do know Dolan (O'Dolan) is an exclusively Irish name.

    --
    Regards,

    Ed Dolan - Minnesota
     
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