Just found out about recumbents..need to know more...

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Elhanan Maayan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>... and
>>>a large portion of it objects to our pm's actions on settlemetns
>>>evictions...
>>
>>Removing the post 1967 Jewish settlement from the occupied territories is
>>the LEGAL and MORAL course.
>
>
> If the Palestinians are not going to be forcibly removed from Gaza, then it
> is the PRUDENT course to remove the Jewish settlements from there. The West
> Bank is a totally different story.
>
>
>>>... in USA, both
>>>party have equel voices. one side cannot close the other side's mouth...
>>
>>If the Bushites get their way, this will no longer be true. They view any
>>dissent as a terrorist act.
>
>
> Straight from Cuckoo-land! Mr. Sherman needs to get off of all those liberal
> hate Bush web sites.

The Bushites are the ones who claimed that any opposition to their
policies was supporting terrorism.

Bush is not worth hating, since he is merely a puppet controlled by the
real powers in the Republican Party. They do not have too much trouble
fooling him into his thinking he is running the show.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[...]
> Yes, all Jews who do not believe that the Palestinians are sub-human scum
> who should be cleansed from the face of the earth are self-hating. What
> ridiculous nonsense. And anyone who does not support "Greater Israel" is
> an anti-Semite. Sheesh!

All the Palestinians should be removed from the so-called occupied
territories. Those lands would then become part of the state of Israel. The
Palestinian state would be Jordan.

> Hey, the Palestinians are also Semitic people!

But they are not Jews. That is the only distinction that matters. The way
things are going, we Americans are going to end up hating the g.d. Arabs as
much if not more than the Jews.

> It is people like Mr. Maayan who will get innocent Jews murdered in
> retaliation for the murder of innocent Palestinians by the IDF and
> paramilitary groups.

It is people like Mr. Sherman that keep the world in a perpetual state of
war and strife. He does not believe in victory for anyone. Instead, he
believes in letting things drag on for all eternity. In the short run,
nothing ever gets resolved, and in the long run we are all of us dead. That
is his non-solution.

But Mr. Maayan is living there at ground zero and he will treat the Mr.
Sherman's of this word with the contempt they so richly deserve. The Jews
maybe know a thing or two about who their friends are and who their enemies
are.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> ...
> But Mr. Maayan is living there at ground zero and he will treat the Mr.
> Sherman's of this word with the contempt they so richly deserve. The Jews
> maybe know a thing or two about who their friends are and who their enemies
> are.

Jews with values like these
<http://www.tikkun.org/community/index.cfm/action/core_vision.html> will
have many friends and few enemies. Those that seek to take land through
conquest and ethnic cleansing will have few friends and many enemies.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> ...
>> Terrorism is your number one problem in Israel. We Americans are so
>> stupid that we don't think it could ever happen to us. That is why 9/11
>> is so valuable for us - if only we can learn from it....
>
> We should learn that the US can not have a monopoly on violence. After
> bullying much of the world for over a century with either the US military
> or US proxies (like the Shah of Iran, or Pinochet in Chile), someone hit
> back.

Pure left wing propaganda left over from the Cold War.

>> Kerry and the liberal Dems obviously still don't have a clue.
>> Fortunately, we have Bush for President who knows that the only way to
>> deal with terrorists is to hunt them down and kill them.
>
> Violence breeds more violence, and the arrogant war crimes of the Cheney
> /Bush administration in Iraq and the violation of human rights and
> international treaties in US jails [1] and concentration camps [2] will
> only lead to more anti-US violence. The "War on Terror" [3] will only
> breed more hatred of the US, and make innocent US citizens less safe.

I guess we all know who this lefty is going to vote for, don't we?

>>>u'll be very popular in some right wing factions we have here.
>>
>>
>> I would be totally right wing if I were an Israeli. There is nothing to
>> talk about with suicide bombers. Your Prime Minister is not nearly tough
>> enough on the Arab Muslims. I would wage total war on them and forcibly
>> expel them into Jordan, their true Palestinian state.
>
> Why not just kill them all? This was the way the immigrants to the US
> dealt with the indigenous population who rightfully owned the land.

If it was necessary to kill them all to remove them, I would. But it would
not be necessary. The only ones who would want to die are the suicide
bombers and other nut cases and there aren't very many of them. Idi Amin
expelled all the Indians from Uganda and that was the end of that particular
problem for Uganda and for the world. Violence often works when everything
else has failed.

Anyone here but me notice that it is always a liberal who brings up the
subject of killing everyone in order to solve a problem. Just like ******
and Stalin, two other notorious liberals.

>>>and if u think kerry is bad, at least YOU have a democracy, in our
>>>'plant' our prime minister FIRES ministers becouse he didn't get their
>>>vote about his descisons, which btw are in complete contrast to his
>>>own party line which got him elected in the first place.
>>>he plans to evict thousands of jews from their homes even though he
>>>throw a pole in his party, commiting to abide by that pole, but even
>>>though pole results were DRASTICALLLY against him, the simply ignored
>>>it and moved on.
>>
>>
>> You have a democracy in Israel. It is a parliamentary system as opposed
>> to a presidential system, so it functions a bit different. The g.d. Arabs
>> have still to prove they are even capable of democracy. The recent
>> elections in Afghanistan are a good omen and the upcoming elections in
>> Iraq will be very important, not just for Iraq, but for the entire Middle
>> East.
>
> Do you mean the highly fraudulent elections in Afghanistan for a president
> who will have no real power and would be killed in short order except for
> US protection?

We have had US troops in Europe and South Korea like forever. They can now
take up residence in the Middle East forever if that is what is required.
The Roman Empire had it's troops stationed at the frontiers of the Empire
for hundreds of years.

>> I consider Israel to be the only democracy in the Middle East with the
>> possible exception of Turkey. Hopefully, that will change soon as a
>> result of American interference in the region.
>
> ROTFLMFAO!!!! The conquest of Iraq will end up no better than the
> imposition of the Shah on the Iranian people worked out in the long run.

In the long run we are all of us dead and everything under the sun fails.
However, in the short run, which is all most of us ever care about, Iraq
could prove to be a big success. If it is, it means the end of terrorist
groups. That is how you win the War on Terrorism. You take the war to them,
not let it come to us.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Elhanan Maayan wrote:
>> ...
>> and if u think kerry is bad, at least YOU have a democracy, in our
>> 'plant' our prime minister FIRES ministers becouse he didn't get their
>> vote about his descisons, which btw are in complete contrast to his
>> own party line which got him elected in the first place.
>> he plans to evict thousands of jews from their homes even though he
>> throw a pole in his party, commiting to abide by that pole, but even
>> though pole results were DRASTICALLLY against him, the simply ignored
>> it and moved on....
>
> I believe that you mean "poll", not pole.

You had best leaving the "correcting" to me. English is most likely not
Elhanan's first language. Maybe you would like to try a little Hebrew on him
and see how far you get?

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
> By the way, from personal experience it is possible to have both Jewish
> and Muslim friends at the same time as long as they are both reasonable
> people (as are the majority of both Jews and Muslims).

That may or may not be true here in the US, but I strongly suspect that it
is not true in the Middle East. The majority of Muslims are NOT sane and
reasonable. They are possessed of a religion of the Devil that believes in
Jihad (holy war against the infidel - that's you and me) and they act on it.
If they had atomic weapons, they would be using them against us right now.

I am not even a Jew and I hate those bastards all the way to hell and back.
You would too if you had any brains. But you will only learn to hate them
when they are slitting your throat or beheading you. Too late you will get
wise.

By the way, personal experience is not as valuable as most people think it
is. It can lead you astray as often as not.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>...
>>>Terrorism is your number one problem in Israel. We Americans are so
>>>stupid that we don't think it could ever happen to us. That is why 9/11
>>>is so valuable for us - if only we can learn from it....
>>
>>We should learn that the US can not have a monopoly on violence. After
>>bullying much of the world for over a century with either the US military
>>or US proxies (like the Shah of Iran, or Pinochet in Chile), someone hit
>>back.
>
>
> Pure left wing propaganda left over from the Cold War.

There is a significant portion of the US population that believes that
they are the chosen people and therefore have rights, such as using
violence to impose their will, that other nations do not. Obviously, the
other nations do not share this view.

>>>Kerry and the liberal Dems obviously still don't have a clue.
>>>Fortunately, we have Bush for President who knows that the only way to
>>>deal with terrorists is to hunt them down and kill them.
>>
>>Violence breeds more violence, and the arrogant war crimes of the Cheney
>>/Bush administration in Iraq and the violation of human rights and
>>international treaties in US jails [1] and concentration camps [2] will
>>only lead to more anti-US violence. The "War on Terror" [3] will only
>>breed more hatred of the US, and make innocent US citizens less safe.
>
>
> I guess we all know who this lefty is going to vote for, don't we?

>>>>u'll be very popular in some right wing factions we have here.
>>>
>>>
>>>I would be totally right wing if I were an Israeli. There is nothing to
>>>talk about with suicide bombers. Your Prime Minister is not nearly tough
>>>enough on the Arab Muslims. I would wage total war on them and forcibly
>>>expel them into Jordan, their true Palestinian state.
>>
>>Why not just kill them all? This was the way the immigrants to the US
>>dealt with the indigenous population who rightfully owned the land.
>
>
> If it was necessary to kill them all to remove them, I would. But it would
> not be necessary. The only ones who would want to die are the suicide
> bombers and other nut cases and there aren't very many of them. Idi Amin
> expelled all the Indians from Uganda and that was the end of that particular
> problem for Uganda and for the world. Violence often works when everything
> else has failed.

If those Indians had viewed Uganda as their ancestral homeland, they
would not have gone so easily.

And all else has not been tried and failed. The US has yet to try a just
foreign policy in place of the policy of economic exploitation.

> Anyone here but me notice that it is always a liberal who brings up the
> subject of killing everyone in order to solve a problem. Just like ******
> and Stalin, two other notorious liberals.

Playing too stupid to recognize a sarcastic rhetorical question, Mr. Dolan?

>>>>and if u think kerry is bad, at least YOU have a democracy, in our
>>>>'plant' our prime minister FIRES ministers becouse he didn't get their
>>>>vote about his descisons, which btw are in complete contrast to his
>>>>own party line which got him elected in the first place.
>>>>he plans to evict thousands of jews from their homes even though he
>>>>throw a pole in his party, commiting to abide by that pole, but even
>>>>though pole results were DRASTICALLLY against him, the simply ignored
>>>>it and moved on.
>>>
>>>
>>>You have a democracy in Israel. It is a parliamentary system as opposed
>>>to a presidential system, so it functions a bit different. The g.d. Arabs
>>>have still to prove they are even capable of democracy. The recent
>>>elections in Afghanistan are a good omen and the upcoming elections in
>>>Iraq will be very important, not just for Iraq, but for the entire Middle
>>>East.
>>
>>Do you mean the highly fraudulent elections in Afghanistan for a president
>>who will have no real power and would be killed in short order except for
>>US protection?
>
>
> We have had US troops in Europe and South Korea like forever. They can now
> take up residence in the Middle East forever if that is what is required.
> The Roman Empire had it's troops stationed at the frontiers of the Empire
> for hundreds of years.

But almost no one was attacking the US troops in Europe and South Korea.
There is a broad based nationalistic occupation resistance in Iraq which
is growing with every civilian death, every day the US embezzles money
from Iraqi oil [1], every day basis services are not restored.

>>>I consider Israel to be the only democracy in the Middle East with the
>>>possible exception of Turkey. Hopefully, that will change soon as a
>>>result of American interference in the region.
>>
>>ROTFLMFAO!!!! The conquest of Iraq will end up no better than the
>>imposition of the Shah on the Iranian people worked out in the long run.
>
>
> In the long run we are all of us dead and everything under the sun fails.
> However, in the short run, which is all most of us ever care about, Iraq
> could prove to be a big success. If it is, it means the end of terrorist
> groups. That is how you win the War on Terrorism. You take the war to them,
> not let it come to us.

There were no anti-US terrorists in Iraq until after the US invaded. DUH!!!

[1] Over 8 billion mismanaged so far, that likely went to pay of
collaborators.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
[...]
>> Elhanan is not going to have any fun cycling in Israel. He is going to
>> get himself killed. Most areas of the world are not suited for cycling
>> because of cultural and other anomalies (like constant warfare and civil
>> unrest). America and Western Europe are peculiar in this regard for being
>> more or less civilized and so are suitable for cycling. Most of the rest
>> of the world, including Israel, is not. It is not even safe to cycle in
>> the cities of Israel, but it is suicidal to venture forth on the roads
>> outside of the cities. Elhanan should completely forget about cycling.
>> Maybe someday his children will be able to do something so simple which
>> we in the West take for granted, but it is not for him, not now and not
>> in Israel.
>
> As long as there is the goal of a "Greater Israel" encompassing everything
> west of the Jordan River, there will never be peace for Israel. Hopefully
> the majority of Israelis will accept this (and insist on an equitable
> settlement) before it is too late for both sides.

There will be peace in Israel when one side has decisively defeated the
other side. It is called victory. We know it is not going to be the
Palestinian side, don't we?Therefore, it is incumbent on Israel to defeat
them once and for all with no hope of anything. Let the Palestinians learn
what true despair is.

The Palestinians should be expelled from the lands that Israel considers
it's own and then you would have "Fortress Israel", defended by it's own
military forces and armed with atomic weapons. An Arab state that would
attack with atomic weapons would be immediately obliterated from the face of
the earth. Armageddon is better than these constant trickle of murders.

There will be peace in Israel when all the Palestinians are either dead or
removed. Thus spake Zarathustra.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>By the way, from personal experience it is possible to have both Jewish
>>and Muslim friends at the same time as long as they are both reasonable
>>people (as are the majority of both Jews and Muslims).
>
>
> That may or may not be true here in the US, but I strongly suspect that it
> is not true in the Middle East. The majority of Muslims are NOT sane and
> reasonable. They are possessed of a religion of the Devil that believes in
> Jihad (holy war against the infidel - that's you and me) and they act on it.
> If they had atomic weapons, they would be using them against us right now....

Remember, Mr. Dolan, that the majority of Muslims are not Arabs and live
outside the Middle East. Your prejudiced generalizations are making you
look foolish again.

> I am not even a Jew and I hate those bastards all the way to hell and back.
> You would too if you had any brains. But you will only learn to hate them
> when they are slitting your throat or beheading you. Too late you will get
> wise.

Mr. Dolan indicates that he is capable of hatred, but not wisdom.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>
> [...]
>
>>>Elhanan is not going to have any fun cycling in Israel. He is going to
>>>get himself killed. Most areas of the world are not suited for cycling
>>>because of cultural and other anomalies (like constant warfare and civil
>>>unrest). America and Western Europe are peculiar in this regard for being
>>>more or less civilized and so are suitable for cycling. Most of the rest
>>>of the world, including Israel, is not. It is not even safe to cycle in
>>>the cities of Israel, but it is suicidal to venture forth on the roads
>>>outside of the cities. Elhanan should completely forget about cycling.
>>>Maybe someday his children will be able to do something so simple which
>>>we in the West take for granted, but it is not for him, not now and not
>>>in Israel.
>>
>>As long as there is the goal of a "Greater Israel" encompassing everything
>>west of the Jordan River, there will never be peace for Israel. Hopefully
>>the majority of Israelis will accept this (and insist on an equitable
>>settlement) before it is too late for both sides.
>
>
> There will be peace in Israel when one side has decisively defeated the
> other side. It is called victory. We know it is not going to be the
> Palestinian side, don't we?Therefore, it is incumbent on Israel to defeat
> them once and for all with no hope of anything. Let the Palestinians learn
> what true despair is.
>
> The Palestinians should be expelled from the lands that Israel considers
> it's own and then you would have "Fortress Israel", defended by it's own
> military forces and armed with atomic weapons. An Arab state that would
> attack with atomic weapons would be immediately obliterated from the face of
> the earth. Armageddon is better than these constant trickle of murders.
>
> There will be peace in Israel when all the Palestinians are either dead or
> removed. Thus spake Zarathustra.

Mr. Dolan is again having fun expressing morally bankrupt views.

There are other weapons more powerful than military force. Israel will
soon exhaust the remainder of the Holocaust sympathy and the collective
guilt of the Europeans will die out with the generation born before
1930. They will become a pariah state the way South Africa was at the
end of the Apartheid Era.

There is still time to compromise for peace, but it is getting short.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
[...]
> The US and the Soviet Union for obvious reason did not want nuclear war -
> both countries were run by rational people. The religious fanatics on both
> sides of the Israeli/Arab conflict are not so rational.

The religous fanatics have never yet come to power in Israel whereas the
religious fanatics are the power in Iran. We can never permit Iran to become
a nuclear power as long as the clerics are ruling. They are just crazy
enough to set off a nuclear war, but the biggest danger is that they would
palm off nuclear weapons to a terrorist group. Either way, the US and Israel
could not permit Iran to get nuclear weapons.
[...]

> However, based on precedent, the Arabs in the Middle East will remember
> Israel's actions of the 20th and 21st Centuries in the 26th Century
> (assuming human civilization survives that long).

They should remember how Israel forbeared in spite of great provocation and
did not wipe them off the face of the earth, something Israel could have
done if it wanted to. Fortunately, it was not something the Arabs could do
even though they tried many times.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> ...
>> The bottom line is that we did not kill nearly enough of them, as witness
>> this insurgency which we are now having to put down. These insurgents
>> should all have been slaughtered on the battlefield, but instead they ran
>> and hid like the cowards they are. No one can stand up to U.S. military
>> might. That is the way I like it and that is the way I want to keep
>> it....
>
> Yet all the military might is nearly useless against a few thousand
> occupation resistance fighters equipped only with small arms. The US has
> won the battles in Iraq, but will lose the war (just like Vietnam).
>
> Colonialism is dead. Accept it.

The US only briefly flirted with colonialism following the Spanish-American
War. The US was never a colonial power and we are not now. We are in Iraq as
liberators and we have no interest in occupying the country. Our only
interest there is that it not fall into the hands of terrorist groups. If it
can become a democracy so much the better, but the main thing is that it not
be a threat to the safety and security of this country. We are soon perhaps
going to have to do something about Iran and for the same reasons.

I do not consider what is happening in Iraq now to be much of a war at all.
The insurgents will eventually be put down. The war has long since been won,
but nobody can say for sure just what the new Iraq is going to look like. We
will do our damnedest to make sure that it never again looks like the old
Iraq under Sadaam.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Edward Dolan]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Edward Dolan wrote:
>
>> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Elhanan Maayan wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>... and
>>>>a large portion of it objects to our pm's actions on settlemetns
>>>>evictions...
>>>
>>>Removing the post 1967 Jewish settlement from the occupied territories is
>>>the LEGAL and MORAL course.
>>
>>
>> If the Palestinians are not going to be forcibly removed from Gaza, then
>> it is the PRUDENT course to remove the Jewish settlements from there. The
>> West Bank is a totally different story.
>>
>>
>>>>... in USA, both
>>>>party have equel voices. one side cannot close the other side's mouth...
>>>
>>>If the Bushites get their way, this will no longer be true. They view any
>>>dissent as a terrorist act.
>>
>>
>> Straight from Cuckoo-land! Mr. Sherman needs to get off of all those
>> liberal hate Bush web sites.
>
> The Bushites are the ones who claimed that any opposition to their
> policies was supporting terrorism.

That is the effect of the liberal nut cases who are the reason Kerry moved
so far to the left. The Dems should have gone with Dean. Now you are stuck
with Kerry and a bad conscience about the war. We Republicans support Bush
and the war wholeheartedly even though it is not going as smoothly now as we
thought it would. I look upon the liberal Dems as appeasers. They come
across as hating America and all it stands for in the world. Kerry would be
right at home in France. Need I say more?

> Bush is not worth hating, since he is merely a puppet controlled by the
> real powers in the Republican Party. They do not have too much trouble
> fooling him into his thinking he is running the show.

Nothing but sour grapes. Everyone knows that Bush is his own man. We do not
have puppet presidents in this country. There is too much power and prestige
invested in the office for that.

--
Regards,

Ed Dolan - Minnesota

 

[Mark Leuck]

"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> > The fear of mutual destruction kept the peace between the US and Russia
for
> > almost 40 years, I see no reason to think Israel vs Iran would be any
> > different
>
> The US and the Soviet Union for obvious reason did not want nuclear war
> - both countries were run by rational people. The religious fanatics on
> both sides of the Israeli/Arab conflict are not so rational.

That would depend on if Iran were to give other arab nations that
capability, for the last 20+ years they haven't chosen to cozy up to any of
them although time will tell on that one

> > How is the US in decline, seems to me quite the opposite?
>
> The economic course as an increasing debtor nation,

The debt vs GDP is roughly the same as it was 10 years ago and down from
what it was 20

A 400 to 500 billion deficit would have been huge 15 years ago when our GDP
was around 6 or 7 trillion but now it's 10.5.

http://www.eh.net/hmit/gdp/

> military spending
> and foreign adventurism beyond the available means,

That hasn't been established at all

> the increasing
> divide between rich and poor

Neither has that one

> the deterioration of infrastructure, and
> the intellectual stagnation that are occurring are all signs of decline.

What specific infrastructure is deteriorating?

The intellectual stagnation comment is laughable

> The US is also much less well prepared than Europe for the upcoming
> fossil fuel scarcity.

I disagree, assuming one is coming they have far less options as far as
alternatives and the ability to fund them but that also remains to be seen

> Believing that the US will be in a pre-eminent position as a world
> superpower with an effective veto on the actions of other nations 500
> years from now is a rather large assumption.

Without a crystal ball yes I imagine that might be the case, for all we know
Bangladesh will be the next major superpower

> However, based on precedent, the Arabs in the Middle East will remember
> Israel's actions of the 20th and 21st Centuries in the 26th Century
> (assuming human civilization survives that long).

20 years ago almost every arab country was against Israel, today only Iran
and Syria are considered enemies, every other arab nation has either made
peace with Israel (Egypt and Jordan) or choose to tolerate them (Saudi
Arabia, Kuwait). If anything by the 26th century the conflicts of that area
will be gone

 

[James S. Prine]

>The US has
>won the battles in Iraq, but will lose the war (just like Vietnam).

Interesting view, especially with November 2nd and the Presidential election
rapidly approaching American voters.

It is interesting that Kerry and his supporters are doing their best to
undermine U.S. troop morale and military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan...just
as Kerry and his comrades did back in the early 1970s, giving aid and comfort
to our enemies and definitely undermining U.S. military morale and
effectiveness in the field.



History *does* repeat itself.
James S. Prine
"I do my own stunts."
http://hometown.aol.com/jsprine/

 

[Slugger]

In article <[email protected]>, Edward Dolan
<[email protected]> wrote:

> "Slugger" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:161020042323560711%[email protected]...
> >
> >> Also from the mind of Ed Dolan: I, the personal pronoun, should always be
> >> capitalized. Instead you write it "i." How dumb is that?
> >
> > In my opinion you must capitalize all of the you's and yours as well as
> > the My's and Mines. Or don't do them at all. But that is not how the
> > english language works so if i skip a capital here or there please
> > forgive me and get on with the topic at hand instead of changing to
> > the same old ****.
>
> Also from the mind of Ed Dolan: I, the personal pronoun, should always be
> capitalized. Instead you write it "i." How dumb is that?
>
> By the way, your "opinion" does not mean **** when it come to how the
> language is to be used.

Right. Did you miss the part where i said please forgive me if i miss
a capital here or there? Get on with life Ed. Its too short to be
hacking on people on Usenet about punctuation.

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>...
>>>The bottom line is that we did not kill nearly enough of them, as witness
>>>this insurgency which we are now having to put down. These insurgents
>>>should all have been slaughtered on the battlefield, but instead they ran
>>>and hid like the cowards they are. No one can stand up to U.S. military
>>>might. That is the way I like it and that is the way I want to keep
>>>it....
>>
>>Yet all the military might is nearly useless against a few thousand
>>occupation resistance fighters equipped only with small arms. The US has
>>won the battles in Iraq, but will lose the war (just like Vietnam).
>>
>>Colonialism is dead. Accept it.
>
>
> The US only briefly flirted with colonialism following the Spanish-American
> War. The US was never a colonial power and we are not now. We are in Iraq as
> liberators and we have no interest in occupying the country. Our only
> interest there is that it not fall into the hands of terrorist groups. If it
> can become a democracy so much the better, but the main thing is that it not
> be a threat to the safety and security of this country. We are soon perhaps
> going to have to do something about Iran and for the same reasons.
>
> I do not consider what is happening in Iraq now to be much of a war at all.
> The insurgents will eventually be put down. The war has long since been won,
> but nobody can say for sure just what the new Iraq is going to look like. We
> will do our damnedest to make sure that it never again looks like the old
> Iraq under Sadaam.

No, it is a new form of colonialism that seeks to impose
neo-conservative values on other countries, using not only the US
military, but the IMF, World Bank, WTO, all for the greater profit of
multi-national corporations.

The US guaranteed its defeat in Iraq but having Paul Bremer try to
impose economic "free market shock therapy" on the Iraqi people without
their consent (or any basis in international law). Maintaining
employment and keeping the government bureaucracies intact (removing
only the top level of Ba'athist appointees) MIGHT have maintained social
order. But the amateur neo-cons (many of them Republicans in their 20's
with no experience) ignored the advice of the US State Department and UN
and tried to impose their ideological vision on Iraq, resulting in disaster.

Allawi is a pretty close Hussein substitute - he is ruthless, brutal and
has lots of covert connection to the US government. The are other
similarities. Hussein tortured innocent Iraqis at Abu Ghraib, and the US
has tortured innocent Iraqi at Abu Ghraib. This in itself is enough for
the Iraqi to never accept the US as a benevolent liberation, but will
confirm the US in their minds as an aggressive conqueror.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Tom Sherman]

James S. Prine wrote:

>>The US has
>>won the battles in Iraq, but will lose the war (just like Vietnam).
>
>
> Interesting view, especially with November 2nd and the Presidential election
> rapidly approaching American voters.
>
> It is interesting that Kerry and his supporters are doing their best to
> undermine U.S. troop morale and military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan...just
> as Kerry and his comrades did back in the early 1970s, giving aid and comfort
> to our enemies and definitely undermining U.S. military morale and
> effectiveness in the field.

The Vietnam War was lost the day Japan surrendered, since the Vietnamese
people were determined to be free of foreign rule no matter the cost.
The age of colonialism had come to an end, and it was a foolish mistake
to support fading French dreams of retaining their colonial empire
instead of supporting Vietnamese self-rule.

The Vietnamese only turned to the support of "Communist" nations after
it became clear the US would not help them achieve self-determination
(Ho Chi Minh asked Truman for this very help).

The US was destined to lose in Iraq before the first cruise missile was
fired in March 2003, since the goal was to impose a neo-conservative
vision of government and economy on Iraq. The Iraqi people of course
wanted no part of this, so naturally a domestic resistance to foreign
occupation developed.

The more the US "goes after the insurgents", the greater the support for
the occupation resistance grows. The only sensible and moral solution at
this point is to get US forces out of Iraq as soon as possible. I am
sure very few of them would object to returning to the US.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Tom Sherman]

James S. Prine wrote:

>>The US has
>>won the battles in Iraq, but will lose the war (just like Vietnam).
>
>
> Interesting view, especially with November 2nd and the Presidential election
> rapidly approaching American voters.
>
> It is interesting that Kerry and his supporters are doing their best to
> undermine U.S. troop morale and military efforts in Iraq and Afghanistan...just
> as Kerry and his comrades did back in the early 1970s, giving aid and comfort
> to our enemies and definitely undermining U.S. military morale and
> effectiveness in the field.

The Vietnam War was lost the day Japan surrendered, since the Vietnamese
people were determined to be free of foreign rule no matter the cost.
The age of colonialism had come to an end, and it was a foolish mistake
to support fading French dreams of retaining their colonial empire
instead of supporting Vietnamese self-rule.

The Vietnamese only turned to the support of "Communist" nations after
it became clear the US would not help them achieve self-determination
(Ho Chi Minh asked Truman for this very help).

The US was destined to lose in Iraq before the first cruise missile was
fired in March 2003, since the goal was to impose a neo-conservative
vision of government and economy on Iraq. The Iraqi people of course
wanted no part of this, so naturally a domestic resistance to foreign
occupation developed.

The more the US "goes after the insurgents", the greater the support for
the occupation resistance grows. The only sensible and moral solution at
this point is to get US forces out of Iraq as soon as possible. I am
sure very few of them would object to returning to the US.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant

 

[Tom Sherman]

Edward Dolan wrote:

> "Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
>
>>Edward Dolan wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Tom Sherman" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>
>>>>Elhanan Maayan wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>... and
>>>>>a large portion of it objects to our pm's actions on settlemetns
>>>>>evictions...
>>>>
>>>>Removing the post 1967 Jewish settlement from the occupied territories is
>>>>the LEGAL and MORAL course.
>>>
>>>
>>>If the Palestinians are not going to be forcibly removed from Gaza, then
>>>it is the PRUDENT course to remove the Jewish settlements from there. The
>>>West Bank is a totally different story.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>>... in USA, both
>>>>>party have equel voices. one side cannot close the other side's mouth...
>>>>
>>>>If the Bushites get their way, this will no longer be true. They view any
>>>>dissent as a terrorist act.
>>>
>>>
>>>Straight from Cuckoo-land! Mr. Sherman needs to get off of all those
>>>liberal hate Bush web sites.
>>
>>The Bushites are the ones who claimed that any opposition to their
>>policies was supporting terrorism.
>
>
> That is the effect of the liberal nut cases who are the reason Kerry moved
> so far to the left. The Dems should have gone with Dean. Now you are stuck
> with Kerry and a bad conscience about the war. We Republicans support Bush
> and the war wholeheartedly even though it is not going as smoothly now as we
> thought it would. I look upon the liberal Dems as appeasers. They come
> across as hating America and all it stands for in the world. Kerry would be
> right at home in France. Need I say more?

"Not going as smoothly now as we thought it would"? No cakewalk and
Iraqis throwing flowers at US troops? I guess the Iraqi people prefer
hand grenades instead. Iraq is a complete disaster, and the best course
for the US would be to leave as soon as possible.

The John Kerry of three decades ago (if only he had the same moral
courage now) was right when he asked, "How do you ask a man to be the
last one to die for a mistake?"

>>Bush is not worth hating, since he is merely a puppet controlled by the
>>real powers in the Republican Party. They do not have too much trouble
>>fooling him into his thinking he is running the show.
>
>
> Nothing but sour grapes. Everyone knows that Bush is his own man. We do not
> have puppet presidents in this country. There is too much power and prestige
> invested in the office for that.

It is fun to get Mr. Dolan to say things he really does not believe.
That is a problem one can have when they support someone like Bush II
out of partisanship.

--
Tom Sherman - Curmudgeon and Pedant