Just trued my first wheel

Discussion in 'UK and Europe' started by Call Me Bob, Jan 26, 2003.

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  1. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    A couple of nights ago I managed to make a mess of the rear wheel on my new EBC Courier - a pannier
    half detached and flung itself into the spokes, gah!

    So, today I've been out to buy my first spoke key. Nobody local had any Spokeys in, so settled for
    the Park triangular multi-size job.

    The first ten minutes were a bit traumatic.:

    "Oh gawd what have I done."

    "Crikey, it's just getting worse!"

    "Oh boll*cks to this!"

    I almost gave up, nipped round to the shop and asked them to true it for me, I realised though that
    I'd look a right clown. Buy a spoke key then come back an hour later with pringled wheel having
    obviously failed miserably myself.

    Once I forced myself to actually have a bit of patience whilst I played around it became quite
    enjoyable, and I've got quite a good result too.

    Laterally it's pretty near spot on, I can see it's out (very) slightly radially but I'm reluctant to
    tackle that at the moment. Seems a bit tricky trying to manage with a bent spoke sellotaped to the
    chainstay so might treat myself to a proper stand soon and have another bash.

    Anyway, just giving myself a pat on the back in public, hope nobody minds :eek:)

    Bob
    --
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  2. Tony W

    Tony W Guest

    "Call me Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > A couple of nights ago I managed to make a mess of the rear wheel on my new EBC Courier - a
    > pannier half detached and flung itself into the spokes, gah!
    >
    > So, today I've been out to buy my first spoke key. Nobody local had any Spokeys in, so settled for
    > the Park triangular multi-size job.
    >
    > The first ten minutes were a bit traumatic.:
    >
    > "Oh gawd what have I done."
    >
    > "Crikey, it's just getting worse!"
    >
    > "Oh boll*cks to this!"
    >
    > I almost gave up, nipped round to the shop and asked them to true it for me, I realised though
    > that I'd look a right clown. Buy a spoke key then come back an hour later with pringled wheel
    > having obviously failed miserably myself.
    >
    > Once I forced myself to actually have a bit of patience whilst I played around it became quite
    > enjoyable, and I've got quite a good result too.
    >
    > Laterally it's pretty near spot on, I can see it's out (very) slightly radially but I'm reluctant
    > to tackle that at the moment. Seems a bit tricky trying to manage with a bent spoke sellotaped to
    > the chainstay so might treat myself to a proper stand soon and have another bash.
    >
    > Anyway, just giving myself a pat on the back in public, hope nobody minds :eek:)

    Satisfying -- isn't it. Your right though. You do need to relax and just take it step at a
    time. Make sure your stress relieve all the spokes well -- otherwise it will be back out of
    true in no time.

    T
     
  3. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Call me Bob wrote:
    > Laterally it's pretty near spot on, I can see it's out (very) slightly radially but I'm reluctant
    > to tackle that at the moment. Seems a bit tricky trying to manage with a bent spoke sellotaped to
    > the chainstay so might treat myself to a proper stand soon and have another bash.

    It is good to have a truing stand but the bike frame can be ok for lateral truing. Easier than using
    a spoke, I think, is to just use the brake blocks* - adjusting them nearer and nearer to the rim as
    the wheel gets truer. When it's really close, deflect the rim by pushing and pulling to tell which
    block the rim is hitting, then true away from it. The wheel can be trued to an incredibly fine
    degree like this.

    This does depend on the brakes being centered, so flip the wheel every so often to test the dish
    (wheel's centering) (or get a dishing gauge). It doesn't matter if dish and radial true is a
    little bit out. Radial truing is more tricky and requires the spokes to be turned more - and it
    always messes up the lateral truing at least a bit, so it's best to leave the _fine_ lateral
    truing until last.

    * Listening for rubbing and watching for blocks slowing/jamming the slowly spun wheel.

    ~PB
     
  4. Nick Murphy

    Nick Murphy Guest

    Check out http://sheldonbrown.com/wheelbuild.html

    I built my own road wheels from 2 hubs, 2 rims, a load of spokes and nipples etc about 2 years ago
    with absolutely no previous knowledge, using just this site. To build your own wheels from scratch
    is amazing, and I've never had a truer pair of wheels.

    NickM

    "Call me Bob" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > A couple of nights ago I managed to make a mess of the rear wheel on my new EBC Courier - a
    > pannier half detached and flung itself into the spokes, gah!
    >
    > So, today I've been out to buy my first spoke key. Nobody local had any Spokeys in, so settled for
    > the Park triangular multi-size job.
    >
    > The first ten minutes were a bit traumatic.:
    >
    > "Oh gawd what have I done."
    >
    > "Crikey, it's just getting worse!"
    >
    > "Oh boll*cks to this!"
    >
    > I almost gave up, nipped round to the shop and asked them to true it for me, I realised though
    > that I'd look a right clown. Buy a spoke key then come back an hour later with pringled wheel
    > having obviously failed miserably myself.
    >
    > Once I forced myself to actually have a bit of patience whilst I played around it became quite
    > enjoyable, and I've got quite a good result too.
    >
    > Laterally it's pretty near spot on, I can see it's out (very) slightly radially but I'm reluctant
    > to tackle that at the moment. Seems a bit tricky trying to manage with a bent spoke sellotaped to
    > the chainstay so might treat myself to a proper stand soon and have another bash.
    >
    > Anyway, just giving myself a pat on the back in public, hope nobody minds :eek:)
    >
    >
    > Bob
    > --
    > Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  5. Bob Flemming

    Bob Flemming Guest

    >Seems a bit tricky trying to manage with a bent spoke sellotaped to the chainstay so might treat
    >myself to a proper stand soon and have another bash.

    I'll see if I can get hold of a digital camera to upload a pic of my real cheapo combined truing and
    dishing 'thingie', that may interest you. Made from wood, it works real well - using the bike as the
    wheel stand of course...but NOT the brake pads as a guide - never got on with using the pads . It's
    just a piece of hardwood <a bit of old picture frame> that attachs to the frame with an adjustable
    bolt as the 'guide' . Hell it works...works well too.

    Don't call me 'Bob the bodger' for nowt !

    It's useful to understand a bit about wheel building and truing. And good to feel good when you
    do too :)

    bob
     
  6. There is a trick to dealing with radial truing. Don't introduce the error in the first place.

    If you're careful to adjust all the nipple the exact same amount before you start truing, and avoid
    turning any one of them too much, but spread your corrections, I've found that you will NOT need to
    do any radial truing.
     
  7. Pete Biggs

    Pete Biggs Guest

    Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee wrote:
    > There is a trick to dealing with radial truing. Don't introduce the error in the first place.
    >
    > If you're careful to adjust all the nipple the exact same amount before you start truing, and
    > avoid turning any one of them too much, but spread your corrections, I've found that you will NOT
    > need to do any radial truing.

    That's sometimes extremely difficult or impossible.

    What rims do you use, and what radial error do you find acceptable (after all, they're
    never perfect)?

    ~PB
     
  8. "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Gearóid Ó Laoi, Garry Lee wrote:
    > > There is a trick to dealing with radial truing. Don't introduce the error in the first place.
    > >
    > > If you're careful to adjust all the nipple the exact same amount before you start truing, and
    > > avoid turning any one of them too much, but spread your corrections, I've found that you will
    > > NOT need to do any radial truing.
    >
    > That's sometimes extremely difficult or impossible.
    >
    > What rims do you use, and what radial error do you find acceptable (after all, they're never
    > perfect)?

    I think it depend a lot on the rims you're using, mtb rims are stiffer and therefore less easy to
    get out of radial true in the first place - I've done 3 wheels now and only had to do radial truing
    once - anything less then 1mm radially and I'm happy YMMV

    Russ
     
  9. Call me Bob <[email protected]> wrote
    > I think the stress relieving is where I'm most unsure. Just how much pressure do I apply? Bit
    > cautious of being too heavy handed yet want to do the job properly. It's a bit tricky to be
    > objective when just *reading* about the process. Ho hum, I'll get there.

    This was the worst problem I had when learning to build wheels. Not really about how much force to
    apply when stress relieving, but how tight to make the spokes. Initially I made them fairly loose,
    but then with successive wheels I got more daring and made them tighter. Then came the day that I
    tacoed a Mavic MA2 rim due to excessively tight spokes. I tell you, it's a sinking feeling when in
    the middle of doing stress relieving your rims suddlenly gives up and bends itself into a pretzel
    shape... The thing was, that the wheel had been exhibiting strange symptoms before the tacoing, but
    I didn't realize what they were and proceeded blindly on. Now I know the symptoms and will take
    remedial action (i.e. back off the tension on the spokes!).

    What I've come to realize is that as long as the spokes aren't too tight, you don't need to worry
    about how much pressure you apply when stress relieving. If your spokes are too tight, then even the
    smallest pressure will taco the wheel. The warning signs are that that the wheel goes into mini-taco
    shapes as you true it up and tighten it up. So if you've tightened a spoke or two and suddenly find
    the rim's developed small but distinct wavey bits, your spokes are too tight, so loosen them up. If
    this doesn't happen, you can stress relieve to your heart's content.

    -Myra
     
  10. Call me Bob <[email protected]> wrote
    > I think the stress relieving is where I'm most unsure. Just how much pressure do I apply? Bit
    > cautious of being too heavy handed yet want to do the job properly. It's a bit tricky to be
    > objective when just *reading* about the process. Ho hum, I'll get there.

    This was the worst problem I had when learning to build wheels. Not really about how much force to
    apply when stress relieving, but how tight to make the spokes. Initially I made them fairly loose,
    but then with successive wheels I got more daring and made them tighter. Then came the day that I
    tacoed a Mavic MA2 rim due to excessively tight spokes. I tell you, it's a sinking feeling when in
    the middle of doing stress relieving your rims suddlenly gives up and bends itself into a pretzel
    shape... The thing was, that the wheel had been exhibiting strange symptoms before the tacoing, but
    I didn't realize what they were and proceeded blindly on. Now I know the symptoms and will take
    remedial action (i.e. back off the tension on the spokes!).

    What I've come to realize is that as long as the spokes aren't too tight, you don't need to worry
    about how much pressure you apply when stress relieving. If your spokes are too tight, then even the
    smallest pressure will taco the wheel. The warning signs are that that the wheel goes into mini-taco
    shapes as you true it up and tighten it up. So if you've tightened a spoke or two and suddenly find
    the rim's developed small but distinct wavey bits, your spokes are too tight, so loosen them up. If
    this doesn't happen, you can stress relieve to your heart's content.

    -Myra
     
  11. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:45:58 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >It is good to have a truing stand but the bike frame can be ok for lateral truing. Easier than
    >using a spoke, I think, is to just use the brake blocks* This does depend on the brakes being
    >centered,

    Yes, I did consider this, had I been working on my road bike I'd certainly have used the brakes.
    I've been having trouble with the relatively cheapo V brakes on this bike though and keeping them
    centered is proving quite a challenge. They're all over the shop so I didn't want to use them in
    this case.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  12. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:45:58 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >It is good to have a truing stand but the bike frame can be ok for lateral truing. Easier than
    >using a spoke, I think, is to just use the brake blocks* This does depend on the brakes being
    >centered,

    Yes, I did consider this, had I been working on my road bike I'd certainly have used the brakes.
    I've been having trouble with the relatively cheapo V brakes on this bike though and keeping them
    centered is proving quite a challenge. They're all over the shop so I didn't want to use them in
    this case.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  13. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:32:58 +0000, Bob Flemming <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'll see if I can get hold of a digital camera to upload a pic of my real cheapo combined truing
    >and dishing 'thingie', that may interest you. Made from wood, it works real well - using the bike
    >as the wheel stand of course...but NOT the brake pads as a guide - never got on with using the pads
    >. It's just a piece of hardwood <a bit of old picture frame> that attachs to the frame with an
    >adjustable bolt as the 'guide' . Hell it works...works well too.

    Oooh, yes, I would be interested in seeing that. I like a bit of bodging myself and might quite
    enjoy knocking up a stand.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  14. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:06:38 +0000 (UTC), "Nick Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I built my own road wheels from 2 hubs, 2 rims, a load of spokes and nipples etc about 2 years ago
    >with absolutely no previous knowledge, using just this site. To build your own wheels from scratch
    >is amazing, and I've never had a truer pair of wheels.

    Yep, this is definitely on my list now. I quite fancy booking myself on one of those wheelbuilding
    day course thingies. Have to see if there is one anywhere near me (which is Derby, so shout up if
    anyone knows of any).

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  15. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 22:32:58 +0000, Bob Flemming <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I'll see if I can get hold of a digital camera to upload a pic of my real cheapo combined truing
    >and dishing 'thingie', that may interest you. Made from wood, it works real well - using the bike
    >as the wheel stand of course...but NOT the brake pads as a guide - never got on with using the pads
    >. It's just a piece of hardwood <a bit of old picture frame> that attachs to the frame with an
    >adjustable bolt as the 'guide' . Hell it works...works well too.

    Oooh, yes, I would be interested in seeing that. I like a bit of bodging myself and might quite
    enjoy knocking up a stand.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  16. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:06:38 +0000 (UTC), "Nick Murphy" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I built my own road wheels from 2 hubs, 2 rims, a load of spokes and nipples etc about 2 years ago
    >with absolutely no previous knowledge, using just this site. To build your own wheels from scratch
    >is amazing, and I've never had a truer pair of wheels.

    Yep, this is definitely on my list now. I quite fancy booking myself on one of those wheelbuilding
    day course thingies. Have to see if there is one anywhere near me (which is Derby, so shout up if
    anyone knows of any).

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  17. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:17:02 -0000, "Tony W" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Make sure your stress relieve all the spokes well -- otherwise it will be back out of true
    >in no time.

    Ahem, indeed.

    I took it out for an hour after I'd done the job and wasn't quite so smug after getting back
    home again :eek:)

    A couple of spokes had unwound and were very slack so it had come quite a way out of true. Time to
    break out the spoke key again.

    This time I was more thorough - I oiled each nipple and left it for a while to penetrate, then, was
    careful to overwind and release back a little when making adjustments. I then stress relieved the
    whole wheel using the spanner type method Sheldon advocates. Fingers crossed it will be more durable
    this time, although I don't actually mind if I have to have another go, I'm enjoying learning.

    I think the stress relieving is where I'm most unsure. Just how much pressure do I apply? Bit
    cautious of being too heavy handed yet want to do the job properly. It's a bit tricky to be
    objective when just *reading* about the process. Ho hum, I'll get there.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  18. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 17:17:02 -0000, "Tony W" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Make sure your stress relieve all the spokes well -- otherwise it will be back out of true
    >in no time.

    Ahem, indeed.

    I took it out for an hour after I'd done the job and wasn't quite so smug after getting back
    home again :eek:)

    A couple of spokes had unwound and were very slack so it had come quite a way out of true. Time to
    break out the spoke key again.

    This time I was more thorough - I oiled each nipple and left it for a while to penetrate, then, was
    careful to overwind and release back a little when making adjustments. I then stress relieved the
    whole wheel using the spanner type method Sheldon advocates. Fingers crossed it will be more durable
    this time, although I don't actually mind if I have to have another go, I'm enjoying learning.

    I think the stress relieving is where I'm most unsure. Just how much pressure do I apply? Bit
    cautious of being too heavy handed yet want to do the job properly. It's a bit tricky to be
    objective when just *reading* about the process. Ho hum, I'll get there.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  19. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:45:58 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >Easier than using a spoke, I think, is to just use the brake blocks*

    I found a useful tip at BikeMagic which made my second attempt at the wheel a bit easier.

    http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/wheel_biro.jpg

    Uses a pen and rubber band, I found it much easier to adjust than the spoke.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
  20. Call Me Bob

    Call Me Bob Guest

    On Sun, 26 Jan 2003 18:45:58 -0000, "Pete Biggs" <pLime{remove_fruit}@biggs.tc> wrote:

    >Easier than using a spoke, I think, is to just use the brake blocks*

    I found a useful tip at BikeMagic which made my second attempt at the wheel a bit easier.

    http://www.bikemagic.com/news/images/wheel_biro.jpg

    Uses a pen and rubber band, I found it much easier to adjust than the spoke.

    Bob
    --
    Mail address is spam trapped To reply by email remove the beverage
     
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