kayak trailer rather than panniers

Discussion in 'Australia and New Zealand' started by Jake, Dec 4, 2003.

  1. Jake

    Jake Guest

    I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically. I
    would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be to
    somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I havn't
    figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters with
    kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?

    Examples of any other tourers whove done it?

    Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.

    Mrs Hung a 40 year old new immigrant from Hong Kong is shocked that our
    country is so empty. Apparently she brought two boxes of pollution masks
    with her but was delighted to discover in australia it would be somewhat odd
    thing to wear around. (Article on population reaching 20million
    statistically today. The Age newspaper - today)
     
    Tags:


  2. Jake wrote:
    >
    > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > touring.


    This is do able. You just have a long two wheel trailer for the kayak.
    Something as simple as a long arm of chrome moly steel ($60/m?) with a
    nose and mid body U shape to strap canoe into. Thi is the lightest
    trailer that I can think of and easily broken down to carry inside
    canoe.


    > Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.


    Perhaps in a forward direction, but not when the wind is from the side.

    > I
    > would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be to
    > somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking.


    ROFL. Visions on bicycle mounted on bike rack behind paddler {:).
    From my experience, kayaks are of delicate balance any way, so the best
    bicycle would have to be able to be broken down and fit into the kayak
    with the weight acting to improve balance. Something like a Moulton
    perhaps. Otherwise, you might need to make your Kayak a Canadian canoe
    instead, or fit a large hatch in the rear.



    > I havn't
    > figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters with
    > kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?


    Yep, you can toe the kayak, but that might put a hole in it {:).

    Keep in mind that you still have your weight of the equipment that would
    be in the panniers, plus the weight of the kayak, plus the weight of the
    kayak trailer. So this is not going to save you weight. Panniers are
    comparatively light and you will probably still have stuff sacks or even
    waterproof barrels inside the kayak (?).

    Traction (my guess as to what you really mean) is not normally a problem
    as most of it comes from your arse on the seat. If traction is a
    problem, then you should be walking as the last thing you would want to
    do is jack knife your bicycle into the kayak.


    Biggest problem is high side winds.
    How do you attach a flag to rear end of kayak to warn cars?


    Unless you are really attached to a kayak, have you considered an
    inflatable? with care, you could carry a standard bike. The inflatable
    could fit into a Bob-style (one wheel) trailer.
     
  3. Juz

    Juz Guest

    > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically. I
    > would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be to
    > somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I havn't
    > figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters with
    > kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?
    >
    > Examples of any other tourers whove done it?
    >
    > Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.




    I don't know about the practicalities of using a kayak as a substitute for
    panniers. For example, if you were on a tour, how would you secure the kayak
    overnight? And kayaks can be heavy... my tourer weighs in at about 18kg.
    Also I don't know about how you would go about fixing your bike to the kayak
    while paddling. You'd have to balance the load perfectly, and there's the
    risk that if you had it strapped on the deck then the bike would get water
    in all of the wrong places.

    But towing a kayak behind a bike is pretty easy to accomplish, and there are
    a number of commercially made trailers that do this. There are also a few
    "do it yourself" articles on the net.

    Some links that might be useful:

    http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/spine-bike-trailer/
    http://www.victoriabybike.com/trailers.htm
    http://danenet.wicip.org/bcp/bike_trailers.html


    Also, Sea Kayaker magazine ran a couple of articles last year about bike
    trailers for yaks. See if you can track down a back issue -- if you're in a
    capital city, try visiting your local State Library. I think that the State
    Library of Vic gets copies of Sea Kayaker. Or you can order back issues from
    Sea Kayaker's website: http://www.seakayakermag.com/

    Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 29: ³Bike cart for kayaks² by Steve Nagode:
    Equipment review, Bicycle kayak cart, EZ Top bicycle kayak cart

    Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 31: ³Do it yourself bike cart for kayaks² by
    Christopher Cunningham: Do-it-yourself, Bicycle kayak cart


    Or another option to look at would be to get a folding kayak and put it in a
    smaller bike trailer such as a Bob. Feathercraft is one of the best makers
    of folding boats: http://www.feathercraft.com

    Don't give up on your quest... cycling and kayaking are two of my favourite
    activities, and anyone who finds a way to combine them gets two thumbs up
    from me!

    cheers
    Juz
     
  4. Jake

    Jake Guest

    No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything behind
    that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when I
    leave? You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
    want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of the
    kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm planning to
    go touring for two-three years.
    "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Jake wrote:
    > >
    > > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > > touring.

    >
    > This is do able. You just have a long two wheel trailer for the kayak.
    > Something as simple as a long arm of chrome moly steel ($60/m?) with a
    > nose and mid body U shape to strap canoe into. Thi is the lightest
    > trailer that I can think of and easily broken down to carry inside
    > canoe.
    >
    >
    > > Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

    >
    > Perhaps in a forward direction, but not when the wind is from the side.
    >
    > > I
    > > would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be

    to
    > > somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking.

    >
    > ROFL. Visions on bicycle mounted on bike rack behind paddler {:).
    > From my experience, kayaks are of delicate balance any way, so the best
    > bicycle would have to be able to be broken down and fit into the kayak
    > with the weight acting to improve balance. Something like a Moulton
    > perhaps. Otherwise, you might need to make your Kayak a Canadian canoe
    > instead, or fit a large hatch in the rear.
    >
    >
    >
    > > I havn't
    > > figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters

    with
    > > kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?

    >
    > Yep, you can toe the kayak, but that might put a hole in it {:).
    >
    > Keep in mind that you still have your weight of the equipment that would
    > be in the panniers, plus the weight of the kayak, plus the weight of the
    > kayak trailer. So this is not going to save you weight. Panniers are
    > comparatively light and you will probably still have stuff sacks or even
    > waterproof barrels inside the kayak (?).
    >
    > Traction (my guess as to what you really mean) is not normally a problem
    > as most of it comes from your arse on the seat. If traction is a
    > problem, then you should be walking as the last thing you would want to
    > do is jack knife your bicycle into the kayak.
    >
    >
    > Biggest problem is high side winds.
    > How do you attach a flag to rear end of kayak to warn cars?
    >
    >
    > Unless you are really attached to a kayak, have you considered an
    > inflatable? with care, you could carry a standard bike. The inflatable
    > could fit into a Bob-style (one wheel) trailer.
     
  5. Jake wrote:
    >
    > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything behind
    > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when I
    > leave?


    The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
    off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
    short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
    then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
    fit into the kayak with the bicycle.


    > You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
    > want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of the
    > kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm planning to
    > go touring for two-three years.


    Well, you would need to work out a method of hitching the front or rear
    of the kayak to the bicycle and method of attaching a pair of wheels in
    the middle. I would not be in favour of doing this as I think you will
    eventually destroy (delaminate/defibre) the canoe where these points
    attach. Fibreglass doesn't like vibration. Boats have massive mounting
    blocks to transmit the outboard vibration over a wide area.

    If you are planning on going around the coast, then this sounds
    feasible, except for the Nullarbor (ship the kayak by truck?
    Port-Augusta to KAlgoolie?). Also feasible for Adelaide to Cairns
    through inland Vic, NSW & Qld. But otherwise, it is along way to drag a
    kayak for little use.
     
  6. "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Jake wrote:
    > >
    > > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything

    behind
    > > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when

    I
    > > leave?

    >
    > The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
    > off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
    > short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
    > then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
    > fit into the kayak with the bicycle.


    I think you mean the rowing boat :)

    Cheers
    Peter
     
  7. Jeremy Lunn

    Jeremy Lunn Guest

    On 2003-12-05, Terry Collins <[email protected]> wrote:
    > ROFL. Visions on bicycle mounted on bike rack behind paddler {:).
    > From my experience, kayaks are of delicate balance any way, so the best
    > bicycle would have to be able to be broken down and fit into the kayak
    > with the weight acting to improve balance. Something like a Moulton
    > perhaps. Otherwise, you might need to make your Kayak a Canadian canoe
    > instead, or fit a large hatch in the rear.


    You'd also want to make sure you don't capsize! Bicycles tend not to
    like being submerged in water.

    --
    Jeremy Lunn
    Melbourne, Australia
    Homepage: http://www.austux.net/
    http://www.jabber.org.au/ - the next generation of Instant Messaging.
     
  8. Jake

    Jake Guest

    I guess you could figure a way to tow the kayak and utilise it for storage
    too, despite wind considerations etc but the problem is carrying the bike. I
    think I will give up on that part of the dream then. I suppose I would need
    a fold-up bike, because carrying it on the kayak would compromise the
    dynamics. I didn't consider the side-wind. Also in many countries trailers
    on bicycles are illegal. (for reasons like that I assume!)

    Thanks for your time and comments mate,
    Jake


    "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Jake wrote:
    > >
    > > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything

    behind
    > > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when

    I
    > > leave?

    >
    > The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
    > off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
    > short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
    > then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
    > fit into the kayak with the bicycle.
    >
    >
    > > You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
    > > want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of the
    > > kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm planning

    to
    > > go touring for two-three years.

    >
    > Well, you would need to work out a method of hitching the front or rear
    > of the kayak to the bicycle and method of attaching a pair of wheels in
    > the middle. I would not be in favour of doing this as I think you will
    > eventually destroy (delaminate/defibre) the canoe where these points
    > attach. Fibreglass doesn't like vibration. Boats have massive mounting
    > blocks to transmit the outboard vibration over a wide area.
    >
    > If you are planning on going around the coast, then this sounds
    > feasible, except for the Nullarbor (ship the kayak by truck?
    > Port-Augusta to KAlgoolie?). Also feasible for Adelaide to Cairns
    > through inland Vic, NSW & Qld. But otherwise, it is along way to drag a
    > kayak for little use.
     
  9. Mike

    Mike Guest

    Jake wrote:
    > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically. I


    Sorry, but this does not sound liks a good idea. Bikes in general have
    the drag coefficient of a brick, because its just not worth trying to
    make them streamlined. Fairings add weight, and vulnerability to side-winds.
    And bikes just dont go that fast, unlike motorbikes which have far more
    to gain from streamlining. Kayaks are heavy, and the slightest incline
    will really slow you down. If you want to reduce drag, panniers are FAR
    better than trailers.
    How about carrying a light inflatable raft instead? That'll get you
    across rivers.
    Aerodynamics, and low frontal area are important when racing, but for
    long distance touring, forget about it. Weight becomes the big issue.

    > only novicial encounters with kayaking.


    Then this is all just a pipe-dream? Leave the kayak at home.
     
  10. Jake

    Jake Guest

    Thanks Juz, I'll check it all out. Great leads mate, cheers.
    "Juz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BBF68B30.A3A6%[email protected]
    > > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

    I
    > > would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be

    to
    > > somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I havn't
    > > figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters

    with
    > > kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?
    > >
    > > Examples of any other tourers whove done it?
    > >
    > > Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.

    >
    >
    >
    > I don't know about the practicalities of using a kayak as a substitute for
    > panniers. For example, if you were on a tour, how would you secure the

    kayak
    > overnight? And kayaks can be heavy... my tourer weighs in at about 18kg.
    > Also I don't know about how you would go about fixing your bike to the

    kayak
    > while paddling. You'd have to balance the load perfectly, and there's the
    > risk that if you had it strapped on the deck then the bike would get water
    > in all of the wrong places.
    >
    > But towing a kayak behind a bike is pretty easy to accomplish, and there

    are
    > a number of commercially made trailers that do this. There are also a few
    > "do it yourself" articles on the net.
    >
    > Some links that might be useful:
    >
    > http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/spine-bike-trailer/
    > http://www.victoriabybike.com/trailers.htm
    > http://danenet.wicip.org/bcp/bike_trailers.html
    >
    >
    > Also, Sea Kayaker magazine ran a couple of articles last year about bike
    > trailers for yaks. See if you can track down a back issue -- if you're in

    a
    > capital city, try visiting your local State Library. I think that the

    State
    > Library of Vic gets copies of Sea Kayaker. Or you can order back issues

    from
    > Sea Kayaker's website: http://www.seakayakermag.com/
    >
    > Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 29: ³Bike cart for kayaks² by Steve Nagode:
    > Equipment review, Bicycle kayak cart, EZ Top bicycle kayak cart
    >
    > Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 31: ³Do it yourself bike cart for kayaks² by
    > Christopher Cunningham: Do-it-yourself, Bicycle kayak cart
    >
    >
    > Or another option to look at would be to get a folding kayak and put it in

    a
    > smaller bike trailer such as a Bob. Feathercraft is one of the best makers
    > of folding boats: http://www.feathercraft.com
    >
    > Don't give up on your quest... cycling and kayaking are two of my

    favourite
    > activities, and anyone who finds a way to combine them gets two thumbs up
    > from me!
    >
    > cheers
    > Juz
    >
     
  11. I used to tow my kayak down to river behind my pushy when I was a kid. I
    have a perception dancer. I had a keel fitted at the back that fits on
    with little buckle like a helmet strap. I pulled the front steering
    wheels off my billy cart and attached them to the keel clip with another
    buckle. Then dad welded up a gooseneck with a collar that fit over the
    seat stem. That hooked onto the front of the kayak with a bit of rope.
    Really not suitable for long distance touring as it was a prick to ride
    with. Do you really want a trailer that weighs 20kg? Hills were scary
    going down and painful going up.
    But that's how I towed my kayak to and from the river.


    --
    Cheers
    Damian Harvey

    www.mazzoir.textamerica.com is my moblog.
    Why? Because I have a sexy cam-phone and you don't.
    Ha.
     
  12. Gags

    Gags Guest

    "Jake" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > I guess you could figure a way to tow the kayak and utilise it for storage
    > too, despite wind considerations etc but the problem is carrying the bike.

    I
    > think I will give up on that part of the dream then. I suppose I would

    need
    > a fold-up bike, because carrying it on the kayak would compromise the
    > dynamics. I didn't consider the side-wind. Also in many countries

    trailers
    > on bicycles are illegal. (for reasons like that I assume!)
    >
    > Thanks for your time and comments mate,
    > Jake
    >
    >
    > "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    > > Jake wrote:
    > > >
    > > > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything

    > behind
    > > > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak

    when
    > I
    > > > leave?

    > >
    > > The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
    > > off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
    > > short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
    > > then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
    > > fit into the kayak with the bicycle.
    > >
    > >
    > > > You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
    > > > want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of

    the
    > > > kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm

    planning
    > to
    > > > go touring for two-three years.

    > >
    > > Well, you would need to work out a method of hitching the front or rear
    > > of the kayak to the bicycle and method of attaching a pair of wheels in
    > > the middle. I would not be in favour of doing this as I think you will
    > > eventually destroy (delaminate/defibre) the canoe where these points
    > > attach. Fibreglass doesn't like vibration. Boats have massive mounting
    > > blocks to transmit the outboard vibration over a wide area.
    > >
    > > If you are planning on going around the coast, then this sounds
    > > feasible, except for the Nullarbor (ship the kayak by truck?
    > > Port-Augusta to KAlgoolie?). Also feasible for Adelaide to Cairns
    > > through inland Vic, NSW & Qld. But otherwise, it is along way to drag a
    > > kayak for little use.

    >


    Just thought of another option.......hows about modifying a kayak so that
    you can use it as an aerodynamic helmet (similar to ones used in time trials
    but obviously much more streamline given it's extended length). A couple of
    months of neck and shoulder exercises in the gym and cycle or two of roids
    should build up sufficient strength to keep your neck upright. You might
    want to think about putting mirrors on the bike though as turning your head
    to check for traffic at the speeds that you will be able to reach (with your
    now aerodynamic scone) may result in your head spinning a la "The Exorcist".

    Good Luck,

    Gags
     
  13. Bikesoiler

    Bikesoiler Guest

    Jake wrote:
    > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.
    > I would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would
    > be to somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I
    > havn't figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial
    > encounters with kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight
    > on the back?
    > Examples of any other tourers whove done it?
    > Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.




    Jake I've often thought of the same thing. How to tour by bike and/or
    raft/kayak without leaving either bike or boat behind. Many hours
    thought while riding & paddling led me to the conclusion, too much
    compromise of both modes. I could see it working with the right
    equipment but it isn't going to be cheap. You need to buy a light
    compact raft (or inflatable kayak) even these are about 21 kgs plus 2
    piece paddle. See http://www.incept.co.nz/ To carry this & anything else
    you want by bike I would use a BoB trailer. See
    http://www.bobtrailers.com Now the hard part. How to pack a bike into
    the boat? I'd use a folding bike, with smaller wheels maybe, like a Bike
    Friday. See http://www.bikefriday.com

    The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and; Packing the
    bike & trailer into the boat so as not to puncture the boat it & keep
    the bike etc dry. You will need a flotation vest but the same helmet
    will work for bike & boat. Use flat pedals & the same shoes will work,
    maybe some Teva's. See
    http://www.teva.com/products.asp?d=1&g=men&c=hydro&sc=1&sku=6772&NAV=1
    Shimano make an SPD sandal (SH-SD60) that could work, watch the metal
    cleat doesn't hole the boat.

    All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.



    --
     
  14. Jake

    Jake Guest

    Yep, its a pipe dream. But buddy, you help me turn it into a real dream and
    I'll drop off that love letter you wrote to that girl five years ago that
    you didn't think you could ever have and then still five years later guess
    what? You never had her? How come? Casue you never sent it? We all got pipe
    dreams :)
    "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > Jake wrote:
    > > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

    I
    >
    > Sorry, but this does not sound liks a good idea. Bikes in general have
    > the drag coefficient of a brick, because its just not worth trying to
    > make them streamlined. Fairings add weight, and vulnerability to

    side-winds.
    > And bikes just dont go that fast, unlike motorbikes which have far more
    > to gain from streamlining. Kayaks are heavy, and the slightest incline
    > will really slow you down. If you want to reduce drag, panniers are FAR
    > better than trailers.
    > How about carrying a light inflatable raft instead? That'll get you
    > across rivers.
    > Aerodynamics, and low frontal area are important when racing, but for
    > long distance touring, forget about it. Weight becomes the big issue.
    >
    > > only novicial encounters with kayaking.

    >
    > Then this is all just a pipe-dream? Leave the kayak at home.
    >
     
  15. Jake

    Jake Guest


    > Jake I've often thought of the same thing. How to tour by bike and/or
    > raft/kayak without leaving either bike or boat behind. Many hours
    > thought while riding & paddling led me to the conclusion, too much
    > compromise of both modes. I could see it working with the right
    > equipment but it isn't going to be cheap. You need to buy a light
    > compact raft (or inflatable kayak) even these are about 21 kgs plus 2
    > piece paddle. See http://www.incept.co.nz/


    No I think the infaltible is out of the quesiton because it won't hold the
    bicycle and I'll need a decent pump. This looks like something more on the
    track, weighing in at 18.4kg.
    http://www.cobrakayaks.com/explorer.html. I can picture the wheels on the
    front flush space and the bike from on the back, although starting to
    consider a means by which the wheels and frame could be fitted inside the
    kayak to add to it structurally. This is the ideal goal i guess, to get the
    two to compliment each other as much as possible. IT wouldn't matter if it
    took an hour or two to convert systems, as long as I ahve it all with me eh.


    > you want by bike I would use a BoB trailer. See
    > http://www.bobtrailers.com Now the hard part. How to pack a bike into
    > the boat? I'd use a folding bike, with smaller wheels maybe, like a Bike
    > Friday. See http://www.bikefriday.com


    I'm familiar with the Bob trailers. they are fantastic for what they do but
    may hug too close the ground for the length differentials of a kayak. Liek
    you said this is doable at a price and I'm willing to go up to $10000
    because touring for two-three years will save me on rent and utililities.




    > The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and;



    I weigh 85kgs and considering that someone weighing 100kgs will have the
    same problem as me with a trailer. I can have equivalent endurance and
    strength. My fitness will adjsut, besides, I'm not carrying the weight, I'm
    not goign anywhere too fast, and I will be able to account for this I hope
    in my gear differentials.


    > Use flat pedals & the same shoes will work,


    Considering that one to two hours conversion time is acceptable I would opt
    for water tolerant off-road spd or nike bike shoes which don't have proud
    clips.


    > Shimano make an SPD sandal (SH-SD60) that could work, watch the metal
    > cleat doesn't hole the boat.


    Actually, the spd sandels are a little dangerous for my liking - RE: rode
    over snake

    > All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.


    Well maybe looking at some custom engineering fetch it up to $10000 - of
    course I want solar panels feeding a laptop and the laptop feeding my music
    studio, digital camera, satallite phone, and GPS coupled device. Cool
    coupling would be with the digital shots.

    All great tours must have a Cause. Bombs for Peace, is like Fucks for
    Virginity. My cause will be "Fucks for Virginity". I will be calling on all
    virgins of australia to sacrafice their virginity to me, merely the
    facilitating symbol of concentrated effort, in protest to fighting world
    peace with bombs i.e. My contribution to this cause will be to aim to have
    sex with 2000 virgins in three years. This is clearly a great sacrafice on
    my behalf and will require exceptional organisational skills. But the
    reality of war as this metaphore will send headlines around the world and
    change the way we think of war as a means to an end. Thus, to mitigate the
    sacrafice these noble princesses make, I will need to be at my greatest
    sexual attractiveness ever, and touring is a brilliant way to compliment
    this. Thus kayaking is an absolute must for upper body workout.
     
  16. Jake

    Jake Guest

    Actually bricks have a sensational drag cooefficient per weight.


    "Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
    > Jake wrote:
    > > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
    > > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

    I
    >
    > Sorry, but this does not sound liks a good idea. Bikes in general have
    > the drag coefficient of a brick, because its just not worth trying to
    > make them streamlined. Fairings add weight, and vulnerability to

    side-winds.
    > And bikes just dont go that fast, unlike motorbikes which have far more
    > to gain from streamlining. Kayaks are heavy, and the slightest incline
    > will really slow you down. If you want to reduce drag, panniers are FAR
    > better than trailers.
    > How about carrying a light inflatable raft instead? That'll get you
    > across rivers.
    > Aerodynamics, and low frontal area are important when racing, but for
    > long distance touring, forget about it. Weight becomes the big issue.
    >
    > > only novicial encounters with kayaking.

    >
    > Then this is all just a pipe-dream? Leave the kayak at home.
    >
     
  17. Jake wrote:

    To start, I am going to be honest and say I thought the same things as
    the poster that said your were a fruit loop or whatever when I first
    read your posting. It was the lack of kaycking experience that did it.
    However, your question of carrying a kayak/canoe on a bicycle trailer is
    an interesting exercise, so I was happy to throw in ideas.

    I think that you are not really looking at what people are saying to
    you. Yes, some of it is dumping on your dreams, but some of it is very
    practicle. Dreams are wonderful things, but a bit of reality helps make
    bicycle touring a comfortable and enjoyable thing. For me, it can be
    fscking bucketting, everything can be wet, the #$^%$^ can have had a
    major break down, but so long as I can pitch a tarp, sit and make a
    cuppa, then it can all be fixed.

    Personally, I think you should reasearch and buy a collapsible bicycle,
    then go touring on it for a week/month, etc a number of times. I've been
    away with someone who did week end tours on a Moulton. He wore shorts
    and shoes and helmet. Everything else fitted into a handlebag (including
    the t-shirt for travelling on the trains), with the sleeping bag on
    rack. He had one meal, a spare tube, basic tools and if it rained, he
    got wet and didn't sleep. If that is how you want to spend your 2-3
    years, then fine. Otherwise, those little comforts, like tooth brush,
    tent, rain jacket, cold weather gear, snacks, etc tend to add up to
    weight, weight, weight, weight, weight.

    So, the next thing you are going to have to do, is weigh your bicycle
    and your equipment, then find a kayak that will carry that weight in
    bricks. Bricks are easy and cheap to replace when you turn turtle, which
    is what I think is going to happen when you start loading up a kayak
    with a bicycle frame, bicycle trailer, your gear and four wheels.

    Also, your bicycle is going to get wet, wet, wet. Despite the best
    intentions, shit happens and you can expect it to go into the drink a
    few time. If you are planning on crossing dams and deep rivers, I would
    also suggest a float and long length of rope on top (just in case).

    I suspect you will quickly find that your kayak is history and you
    really want a canoe or inflatable boat. At least to carry the bicycle.
    Have you considered a seperate inflatable just to carry your bicycle?

    <weird idea> Perhaps your panniers/gear storage can be two waterproof
    drums that mount like panniers but are the flotation barrels for a raft
    that carries your bicycle and kayak trailer behind your kayak?</weird
    idea>


    > No I think the infaltible is out of the quesiton because it won't hold the
    > bicycle and I'll need a decent pump.


    The pump is the least of your worries.

    You have three classes of water transport.

    Rigid: like a fibreglass or plastic kyak.

    Constructed: you insert panels or framework into a cloth to create your
    kayak/canoe/boat.

    Inflatable: kyak, canoe, or boat.


    Just my 2c, but anything rigid is not going to like being the load
    bearing struture it become when it is the trailer body. Watercraft save
    weight be distributing their load "equally" over the water. Converting
    that watercraft into trailer suddenly focusses that load into wheel and
    link attachment points which have to be reinforced, which is extra
    weight.


    ....snip... useless weekender kayak.



    > I'm familiar with the Bob trailers. they are fantastic for what they do but
    > may hug too close the ground for the length differentials of a kayak.


    Fsck, that wasn't what was said. He was saying that you could easily
    carry an inflatable in a bob style trailer.

    However, if you wanted to make your kayak into a bob-style trailer, then
    you would just use a larger wheel to get clearance. Again, you are going
    to need reinforcement in both ends to handle all the forces. Instead, I
    would suggest a two wheel trailer design.


    ....snip......

    > > The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and;

    >
    > I weigh 85kgs and considering that someone weighing 100kgs will have the
    > same problem as me with a trailer. I can have equivalent endurance and
    > strength. My fitness will adjsut, besides, I'm not carrying the weight, I'm
    > not goign anywhere too fast, and I will be able to account for this I hope
    > in my gear differentials.


    Yep, you will not be going too fast. You will notice it on every little
    incline. That extra weight has to be pulled uphill. To appreciate this,
    I would suggest doing a weeks tour with a trailer and the weight of the
    kayak in bricks.

    ....snip stuff on shoes...... I wear common sandals or shoes.

    > > All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.

    >
    > Well maybe looking at some custom engineering fetch it up to $10000 - of
    > course I want solar panels feeding a laptop and the laptop feeding my music
    > studio, digital camera, satallite phone, and GPS coupled device. Cool
    > coupling would be with the digital shots.


    Have you worked out your energy budget?
    You are going to get one big surprise when you work out how much solar
    panels space you are going to have to carry around with you.


    ....snip wank about rooting around Australia. FYI, some middle age old
    fart did it twice pushing a postal wheelie, which included a 36 dozen
    condoms (or so he said). If it worked for him, I guess it can work for
    you.
     
  18. Jake

    Jake Guest

    Well lets say this much. I give you my word I am going to do this and will
    leave by June 2004. I'm going touring in Tassie for three weeks Dec 25 - Jan
    15, but I won't be doing any brick experiments then. Thus far I've found
    this modest candidate but some reengineering would be required to redress
    your important concerns about the weight ditribution of trailer mode versus
    water mode kayak.

    Nice thoughts and will get back to you all once I've fully investigated all
    the generous and constructive inputs from this newsgroup.
    Cheers,
    Jake.


    "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Jake wrote:
    >
    > To start, I am going to be honest and say I thought the same things as
    > the poster that said your were a fruit loop or whatever when I first
    > read your posting. It was the lack of kaycking experience that did it.
    > However, your question of carrying a kayak/canoe on a bicycle trailer is
    > an interesting exercise, so I was happy to throw in ideas.
    >
    > I think that you are not really looking at what people are saying to
    > you. Yes, some of it is dumping on your dreams, but some of it is very
    > practicle. Dreams are wonderful things, but a bit of reality helps make
    > bicycle touring a comfortable and enjoyable thing. For me, it can be
    > fscking bucketting, everything can be wet, the #$^%$^ can have had a
    > major break down, but so long as I can pitch a tarp, sit and make a
    > cuppa, then it can all be fixed.
    >
    > Personally, I think you should reasearch and buy a collapsible bicycle,
    > then go touring on it for a week/month, etc a number of times. I've been
    > away with someone who did week end tours on a Moulton. He wore shorts
    > and shoes and helmet. Everything else fitted into a handlebag (including
    > the t-shirt for travelling on the trains), with the sleeping bag on
    > rack. He had one meal, a spare tube, basic tools and if it rained, he
    > got wet and didn't sleep. If that is how you want to spend your 2-3
    > years, then fine. Otherwise, those little comforts, like tooth brush,
    > tent, rain jacket, cold weather gear, snacks, etc tend to add up to
    > weight, weight, weight, weight, weight.
    >
    > So, the next thing you are going to have to do, is weigh your bicycle
    > and your equipment, then find a kayak that will carry that weight in
    > bricks. Bricks are easy and cheap to replace when you turn turtle, which
    > is what I think is going to happen when you start loading up a kayak
    > with a bicycle frame, bicycle trailer, your gear and four wheels.
    >
    > Also, your bicycle is going to get wet, wet, wet. Despite the best
    > intentions, shit happens and you can expect it to go into the drink a
    > few time. If you are planning on crossing dams and deep rivers, I would
    > also suggest a float and long length of rope on top (just in case).
    >
    > I suspect you will quickly find that your kayak is history and you
    > really want a canoe or inflatable boat. At least to carry the bicycle.
    > Have you considered a seperate inflatable just to carry your bicycle?
    >
    > <weird idea> Perhaps your panniers/gear storage can be two waterproof
    > drums that mount like panniers but are the flotation barrels for a raft
    > that carries your bicycle and kayak trailer behind your kayak?</weird
    > idea>
    >
    >
    > > No I think the infaltible is out of the quesiton because it won't hold

    the
    > > bicycle and I'll need a decent pump.

    >
    > The pump is the least of your worries.
    >
    > You have three classes of water transport.
    >
    > Rigid: like a fibreglass or plastic kyak.
    >
    > Constructed: you insert panels or framework into a cloth to create your
    > kayak/canoe/boat.
    >
    > Inflatable: kyak, canoe, or boat.
    >
    >
    > Just my 2c, but anything rigid is not going to like being the load
    > bearing struture it become when it is the trailer body. Watercraft save
    > weight be distributing their load "equally" over the water. Converting
    > that watercraft into trailer suddenly focusses that load into wheel and
    > link attachment points which have to be reinforced, which is extra
    > weight.
    >
    >
    > ...snip... useless weekender kayak.
    >
    >
    >
    > > I'm familiar with the Bob trailers. they are fantastic for what they do

    but
    > > may hug too close the ground for the length differentials of a kayak.

    >
    > Fsck, that wasn't what was said. He was saying that you could easily
    > carry an inflatable in a bob style trailer.
    >
    > However, if you wanted to make your kayak into a bob-style trailer, then
    > you would just use a larger wheel to get clearance. Again, you are going
    > to need reinforcement in both ends to handle all the forces. Instead, I
    > would suggest a two wheel trailer design.
    >
    >
    > ...snip......
    >
    > > > The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and;

    > >
    > > I weigh 85kgs and considering that someone weighing 100kgs will have the
    > > same problem as me with a trailer. I can have equivalent endurance and
    > > strength. My fitness will adjsut, besides, I'm not carrying the weight,

    I'm
    > > not goign anywhere too fast, and I will be able to account for this I

    hope
    > > in my gear differentials.

    >
    > Yep, you will not be going too fast. You will notice it on every little
    > incline. That extra weight has to be pulled uphill. To appreciate this,
    > I would suggest doing a weeks tour with a trailer and the weight of the
    > kayak in bricks.
    >
    > ...snip stuff on shoes...... I wear common sandals or shoes.
    >
    > > > All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.

    > >
    > > Well maybe looking at some custom engineering fetch it up to $10000 - of
    > > course I want solar panels feeding a laptop and the laptop feeding my

    music
    > > studio, digital camera, satallite phone, and GPS coupled device. Cool
    > > coupling would be with the digital shots.

    >
    > Have you worked out your energy budget?
    > You are going to get one big surprise when you work out how much solar
    > panels space you are going to have to carry around with you.
    >
    >
    > ...snip wank about rooting around Australia. FYI, some middle age old
    > fart did it twice pushing a postal wheelie, which included a 36 dozen
    > condoms (or so he said). If it worked for him, I guess it can work for
    > you.
     
  19. Theo Bekkers

    Theo Bekkers Guest

    "Jake" wrote
    > Actually bricks have a sensational drag cooefficient per weight.


    A brick (or more correctly, a cube) has a drag coefficient of 1. It's
    weight is irrelevant. A modern sedan has a drag coefficient of around
    0.3 or better.

    Theo
     
  20. Jake

    Jake Guest

    Well if a brick is the maximum drag with coefficient of the WHOLE '1' then
    what is the drag cof of a parachute?
    "Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:D[email protected]
    > "Jake" wrote
    > > Actually bricks have a sensational drag cooefficient per weight.

    >
    > A brick (or more correctly, a cube) has a drag coefficient of 1. It's
    > weight is irrelevant. A modern sedan has a drag coefficient of around
    > 0.3 or better.
    >
    > Theo
    >
    >
     
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