kayak trailer rather than panniers



J

Jake

Guest
I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically. I
would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be to
somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I havn't
figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters with
kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?

Examples of any other tourers whove done it?

Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.

Mrs Hung a 40 year old new immigrant from Hong Kong is shocked that our
country is so empty. Apparently she brought two boxes of pollution masks
with her but was delighted to discover in australia it would be somewhat odd
thing to wear around. (Article on population reaching 20million
statistically today. The Age newspaper - today)
 
T

Terry Collins

Guest
Jake wrote:
>
> I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> touring.


This is do able. You just have a long two wheel trailer for the kayak.
Something as simple as a long arm of chrome moly steel ($60/m?) with a
nose and mid body U shape to strap canoe into. Thi is the lightest
trailer that I can think of and easily broken down to carry inside
canoe.


> Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.


Perhaps in a forward direction, but not when the wind is from the side.

> I
> would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be to
> somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking.


ROFL. Visions on bicycle mounted on bike rack behind paddler {:).
From my experience, kayaks are of delicate balance any way, so the best
bicycle would have to be able to be broken down and fit into the kayak
with the weight acting to improve balance. Something like a Moulton
perhaps. Otherwise, you might need to make your Kayak a Canadian canoe
instead, or fit a large hatch in the rear.



> I havn't
> figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters with
> kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?


Yep, you can toe the kayak, but that might put a hole in it {:).

Keep in mind that you still have your weight of the equipment that would
be in the panniers, plus the weight of the kayak, plus the weight of the
kayak trailer. So this is not going to save you weight. Panniers are
comparatively light and you will probably still have stuff sacks or even
waterproof barrels inside the kayak (?).

Traction (my guess as to what you really mean) is not normally a problem
as most of it comes from your **** on the seat. If traction is a
problem, then you should be walking as the last thing you would want to
do is jack knife your bicycle into the kayak.


Biggest problem is high side winds.
How do you attach a flag to rear end of kayak to warn cars?


Unless you are really attached to a kayak, have you considered an
inflatable? with care, you could carry a standard bike. The inflatable
could fit into a Bob-style (one wheel) trailer.
 
J

Juz

Guest
> I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically. I
> would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be to
> somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I havn't
> figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters with
> kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?
>
> Examples of any other tourers whove done it?
>
> Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.




I don't know about the practicalities of using a kayak as a substitute for
panniers. For example, if you were on a tour, how would you secure the kayak
overnight? And kayaks can be heavy... my tourer weighs in at about 18kg.
Also I don't know about how you would go about fixing your bike to the kayak
while paddling. You'd have to balance the load perfectly, and there's the
risk that if you had it strapped on the deck then the bike would get water
in all of the wrong places.

But towing a kayak behind a bike is pretty easy to accomplish, and there are
a number of commercially made trailers that do this. There are also a few
"do it yourself" articles on the net.

Some links that might be useful:

http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/spine-bike-trailer/
http://www.victoriabybike.com/trailers.htm
http://danenet.wicip.org/bcp/bike_trailers.html


Also, Sea Kayaker magazine ran a couple of articles last year about bike
trailers for yaks. See if you can track down a back issue -- if you're in a
capital city, try visiting your local State Library. I think that the State
Library of Vic gets copies of Sea Kayaker. Or you can order back issues from
Sea Kayaker's website: http://www.seakayakermag.com/

Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 29: ³Bike cart for kayaks² by Steve Nagode:
Equipment review, Bicycle kayak cart, EZ Top bicycle kayak cart

Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 31: ³Do it yourself bike cart for kayaks² by
Christopher Cunningham: Do-it-yourself, Bicycle kayak cart


Or another option to look at would be to get a folding kayak and put it in a
smaller bike trailer such as a Bob. Feathercraft is one of the best makers
of folding boats: http://www.feathercraft.com

Don't give up on your quest... cycling and kayaking are two of my favourite
activities, and anyone who finds a way to combine them gets two thumbs up
from me!

cheers
Juz
 
J

Jake

Guest
No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything behind
that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when I
leave? You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of the
kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm planning to
go touring for two-three years.
"Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Jake wrote:
> >
> > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> > touring.

>
> This is do able. You just have a long two wheel trailer for the kayak.
> Something as simple as a long arm of chrome moly steel ($60/m?) with a
> nose and mid body U shape to strap canoe into. Thi is the lightest
> trailer that I can think of and easily broken down to carry inside
> canoe.
>
>
> > Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

>
> Perhaps in a forward direction, but not when the wind is from the side.
>
> > I
> > would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be

to
> > somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking.

>
> ROFL. Visions on bicycle mounted on bike rack behind paddler {:).
> From my experience, kayaks are of delicate balance any way, so the best
> bicycle would have to be able to be broken down and fit into the kayak
> with the weight acting to improve balance. Something like a Moulton
> perhaps. Otherwise, you might need to make your Kayak a Canadian canoe
> instead, or fit a large hatch in the rear.
>
>
>
> > I havn't
> > figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters

with
> > kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?

>
> Yep, you can toe the kayak, but that might put a hole in it {:).
>
> Keep in mind that you still have your weight of the equipment that would
> be in the panniers, plus the weight of the kayak, plus the weight of the
> kayak trailer. So this is not going to save you weight. Panniers are
> comparatively light and you will probably still have stuff sacks or even
> waterproof barrels inside the kayak (?).
>
> Traction (my guess as to what you really mean) is not normally a problem
> as most of it comes from your **** on the seat. If traction is a
> problem, then you should be walking as the last thing you would want to
> do is jack knife your bicycle into the kayak.
>
>
> Biggest problem is high side winds.
> How do you attach a flag to rear end of kayak to warn cars?
>
>
> Unless you are really attached to a kayak, have you considered an
> inflatable? with care, you could carry a standard bike. The inflatable
> could fit into a Bob-style (one wheel) trailer.
 
T

Terry Collins

Guest
Jake wrote:
>
> No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything behind
> that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when I
> leave?


The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
fit into the kayak with the bicycle.


> You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
> want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of the
> kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm planning to
> go touring for two-three years.


Well, you would need to work out a method of hitching the front or rear
of the kayak to the bicycle and method of attaching a pair of wheels in
the middle. I would not be in favour of doing this as I think you will
eventually destroy (delaminate/defibre) the canoe where these points
attach. Fibreglass doesn't like vibration. Boats have massive mounting
blocks to transmit the outboard vibration over a wide area.

If you are planning on going around the coast, then this sounds
feasible, except for the Nullarbor (ship the kayak by truck?
Port-Augusta to KAlgoolie?). Also feasible for Adelaide to Cairns
through inland Vic, NSW & Qld. But otherwise, it is along way to drag a
kayak for little use.
 
P

Peter Signorini

Guest
"Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Jake wrote:
> >
> > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything

behind
> > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when

I
> > leave?

>
> The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
> off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
> short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
> then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
> fit into the kayak with the bicycle.


I think you mean the rowing boat :)

Cheers
Peter
 
J

Jeremy Lunn

Guest
On 2003-12-05, Terry Collins <[email protected]> wrote:
> ROFL. Visions on bicycle mounted on bike rack behind paddler {:).
> From my experience, kayaks are of delicate balance any way, so the best
> bicycle would have to be able to be broken down and fit into the kayak
> with the weight acting to improve balance. Something like a Moulton
> perhaps. Otherwise, you might need to make your Kayak a Canadian canoe
> instead, or fit a large hatch in the rear.


You'd also want to make sure you don't capsize! Bicycles tend not to
like being submerged in water.

--
Jeremy Lunn
Melbourne, Australia
Homepage: http://www.austux.net/
http://www.jabber.org.au/ - the next generation of Instant Messaging.
 
J

Jake

Guest
I guess you could figure a way to tow the kayak and utilise it for storage
too, despite wind considerations etc but the problem is carrying the bike. I
think I will give up on that part of the dream then. I suppose I would need
a fold-up bike, because carrying it on the kayak would compromise the
dynamics. I didn't consider the side-wind. Also in many countries trailers
on bicycles are illegal. (for reasons like that I assume!)

Thanks for your time and comments mate,
Jake


"Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Jake wrote:
> >
> > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything

behind
> > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak when

I
> > leave?

>
> The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
> off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
> short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
> then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
> fit into the kayak with the bicycle.
>
>
> > You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
> > want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of the
> > kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm planning

to
> > go touring for two-three years.

>
> Well, you would need to work out a method of hitching the front or rear
> of the kayak to the bicycle and method of attaching a pair of wheels in
> the middle. I would not be in favour of doing this as I think you will
> eventually destroy (delaminate/defibre) the canoe where these points
> attach. Fibreglass doesn't like vibration. Boats have massive mounting
> blocks to transmit the outboard vibration over a wide area.
>
> If you are planning on going around the coast, then this sounds
> feasible, except for the Nullarbor (ship the kayak by truck?
> Port-Augusta to KAlgoolie?). Also feasible for Adelaide to Cairns
> through inland Vic, NSW & Qld. But otherwise, it is along way to drag a
> kayak for little use.
 
M

Mike

Guest
Jake wrote:
> I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically. I


Sorry, but this does not sound liks a good idea. Bikes in general have
the drag coefficient of a brick, because its just not worth trying to
make them streamlined. Fairings add weight, and vulnerability to side-winds.
And bikes just dont go that fast, unlike motorbikes which have far more
to gain from streamlining. Kayaks are heavy, and the slightest incline
will really slow you down. If you want to reduce drag, panniers are FAR
better than trailers.
How about carrying a light inflatable raft instead? That'll get you
across rivers.
Aerodynamics, and low frontal area are important when racing, but for
long distance touring, forget about it. Weight becomes the big issue.

> only novicial encounters with kayaking.


Then this is all just a pipe-dream? Leave the kayak at home.
 
J

Jake

Guest
Thanks Juz, I'll check it all out. Great leads mate, cheers.
"Juz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:BBF68B30.A3A6%[email protected]
> > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

I
> > would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would be

to
> > somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I havn't
> > figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial encounters

with
> > kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight on the back?
> >
> > Examples of any other tourers whove done it?
> >
> > Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.

>
>
>
> I don't know about the practicalities of using a kayak as a substitute for
> panniers. For example, if you were on a tour, how would you secure the

kayak
> overnight? And kayaks can be heavy... my tourer weighs in at about 18kg.
> Also I don't know about how you would go about fixing your bike to the

kayak
> while paddling. You'd have to balance the load perfectly, and there's the
> risk that if you had it strapped on the deck then the bike would get water
> in all of the wrong places.
>
> But towing a kayak behind a bike is pretty easy to accomplish, and there

are
> a number of commercially made trailers that do this. There are also a few
> "do it yourself" articles on the net.
>
> Some links that might be useful:
>
> http://www.bikesatwork.com/bike-trailers/spine-bike-trailer/
> http://www.victoriabybike.com/trailers.htm
> http://danenet.wicip.org/bcp/bike_trailers.html
>
>
> Also, Sea Kayaker magazine ran a couple of articles last year about bike
> trailers for yaks. See if you can track down a back issue -- if you're in

a
> capital city, try visiting your local State Library. I think that the

State
> Library of Vic gets copies of Sea Kayaker. Or you can order back issues

from
> Sea Kayaker's website: http://www.seakayakermag.com/
>
> Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 29: ³Bike cart for kayaks² by Steve Nagode:
> Equipment review, Bicycle kayak cart, EZ Top bicycle kayak cart
>
> Issue 86, Feb. 2002, page 31: ³Do it yourself bike cart for kayaks² by
> Christopher Cunningham: Do-it-yourself, Bicycle kayak cart
>
>
> Or another option to look at would be to get a folding kayak and put it in

a
> smaller bike trailer such as a Bob. Feathercraft is one of the best makers
> of folding boats: http://www.feathercraft.com
>
> Don't give up on your quest... cycling and kayaking are two of my

favourite
> activities, and anyone who finds a way to combine them gets two thumbs up
> from me!
>
> cheers
> Juz
>
 
D

Damian Harvey

Guest
I used to tow my kayak down to river behind my pushy when I was a kid. I
have a perception dancer. I had a keel fitted at the back that fits on
with little buckle like a helmet strap. I pulled the front steering
wheels off my billy cart and attached them to the keel clip with another
buckle. Then dad welded up a gooseneck with a collar that fit over the
seat stem. That hooked onto the front of the kayak with a bit of rope.
Really not suitable for long distance touring as it was a ***** to ride
with. Do you really want a trailer that weighs 20kg? Hills were scary
going down and painful going up.
But that's how I towed my kayak to and from the river.


--
Cheers
Damian Harvey

www.mazzoir.textamerica.com is my moblog.
Why? Because I have a sexy cam-phone and you don't.
Ha.
 
G

Gags

Guest
"Jake" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> I guess you could figure a way to tow the kayak and utilise it for storage
> too, despite wind considerations etc but the problem is carrying the bike.

I
> think I will give up on that part of the dream then. I suppose I would

need
> a fold-up bike, because carrying it on the kayak would compromise the
> dynamics. I didn't consider the side-wind. Also in many countries

trailers
> on bicycles are illegal. (for reasons like that I assume!)
>
> Thanks for your time and comments mate,
> Jake
>
>
> "Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > Jake wrote:
> > >
> > > No but theres a problem. Where I go I don't want to leave anything

> behind
> > > that I have to recover. So where do I put the trailer for the kayak

when
> I
> > > leave?

> >
> > The trailer breaks down into parts. you would have a C shape that came
> > off the left hand side chainstay, then a main shaft that broke into
> > short lengths, then a couple of U shapes that slide off the main shaft,
> > then a cross piece that holds the wheels (stub axles?) .All this would
> > fit into the kayak with the bicycle.
> >
> >
> > > You see, I want the kayak to BE the trailer. And when I'm kayaking I
> > > want to have the bike accounted for so that when I get ot the end of

the
> > > kayaking leg I resume the biking and interchange whenever. I'm

planning
> to
> > > go touring for two-three years.

> >
> > Well, you would need to work out a method of hitching the front or rear
> > of the kayak to the bicycle and method of attaching a pair of wheels in
> > the middle. I would not be in favour of doing this as I think you will
> > eventually destroy (delaminate/defibre) the canoe where these points
> > attach. Fibreglass doesn't like vibration. Boats have massive mounting
> > blocks to transmit the outboard vibration over a wide area.
> >
> > If you are planning on going around the coast, then this sounds
> > feasible, except for the Nullarbor (ship the kayak by truck?
> > Port-Augusta to KAlgoolie?). Also feasible for Adelaide to Cairns
> > through inland Vic, NSW & Qld. But otherwise, it is along way to drag a
> > kayak for little use.

>


Just thought of another option.......hows about modifying a kayak so that
you can use it as an aerodynamic helmet (similar to ones used in time trials
but obviously much more streamline given it's extended length). A couple of
months of neck and shoulder exercises in the gym and cycle or two of roids
should build up sufficient strength to keep your neck upright. You might
want to think about putting mirrors on the bike though as turning your head
to check for traffic at the speeds that you will be able to reach (with your
now aerodynamic scone) may result in your head spinning a la "The Exorcist".

Good Luck,

Gags
 
B

Bikesoiler

Guest
Jake wrote:
> I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.
> I would aim to irradicate having any panneirs at all. The object would
> be to somehow be able to get the bicycle on the kayak when kayaking. I
> havn't figured that bit as much because I have had only novicial
> encounters with kayaking. Or is it hard to toe a trailer without weight
> on the back?
> Examples of any other tourers whove done it?
> Any feedback of what ever form is much appreciated.




Jake I've often thought of the same thing. How to tour by bike and/or
raft/kayak without leaving either bike or boat behind. Many hours
thought while riding & paddling led me to the conclusion, too much
compromise of both modes. I could see it working with the right
equipment but it isn't going to be cheap. You need to buy a light
compact raft (or inflatable kayak) even these are about 21 kgs plus 2
piece paddle. See http://www.incept.co.nz/ To carry this & anything else
you want by bike I would use a BoB trailer. See
http://www.bobtrailers.com Now the hard part. How to pack a bike into
the boat? I'd use a folding bike, with smaller wheels maybe, like a Bike
Friday. See http://www.bikefriday.com

The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and; Packing the
bike & trailer into the boat so as not to puncture the boat it & keep
the bike etc dry. You will need a flotation vest but the same helmet
will work for bike & boat. Use flat pedals & the same shoes will work,
maybe some Teva's. See
http://www.teva.com/products.asp?d=1&g=men&c=hydro&sc=1&sku=6772&NAV=1
Shimano make an SPD sandal (SH-SD60) that could work, watch the metal
cleat doesn't hole the boat.

All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.



--
 
J

Jake

Guest
Yep, its a pipe dream. But buddy, you help me turn it into a real dream and
I'll drop off that love letter you wrote to that girl five years ago that
you didn't think you could ever have and then still five years later guess
what? You never had her? How come? Casue you never sent it? We all got pipe
dreams :)
"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> Jake wrote:
> > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

I
>
> Sorry, but this does not sound liks a good idea. Bikes in general have
> the drag coefficient of a brick, because its just not worth trying to
> make them streamlined. Fairings add weight, and vulnerability to

side-winds.
> And bikes just dont go that fast, unlike motorbikes which have far more
> to gain from streamlining. Kayaks are heavy, and the slightest incline
> will really slow you down. If you want to reduce drag, panniers are FAR
> better than trailers.
> How about carrying a light inflatable raft instead? That'll get you
> across rivers.
> Aerodynamics, and low frontal area are important when racing, but for
> long distance touring, forget about it. Weight becomes the big issue.
>
> > only novicial encounters with kayaking.

>
> Then this is all just a pipe-dream? Leave the kayak at home.
>
 
J

Jake

Guest

> Jake I've often thought of the same thing. How to tour by bike and/or
> raft/kayak without leaving either bike or boat behind. Many hours
> thought while riding & paddling led me to the conclusion, too much
> compromise of both modes. I could see it working with the right
> equipment but it isn't going to be cheap. You need to buy a light
> compact raft (or inflatable kayak) even these are about 21 kgs plus 2
> piece paddle. See http://www.incept.co.nz/


No I think the infaltible is out of the quesiton because it won't hold the
bicycle and I'll need a decent pump. This looks like something more on the
track, weighing in at 18.4kg.
http://www.cobrakayaks.com/explorer.html. I can picture the wheels on the
front flush space and the bike from on the back, although starting to
consider a means by which the wheels and frame could be fitted inside the
kayak to add to it structurally. This is the ideal goal i guess, to get the
two to compliment each other as much as possible. IT wouldn't matter if it
took an hour or two to convert systems, as long as I ahve it all with me eh.


> you want by bike I would use a BoB trailer. See
> http://www.bobtrailers.com Now the hard part. How to pack a bike into
> the boat? I'd use a folding bike, with smaller wheels maybe, like a Bike
> Friday. See http://www.bikefriday.com


I'm familiar with the Bob trailers. they are fantastic for what they do but
may hug too close the ground for the length differentials of a kayak. Liek
you said this is doable at a price and I'm willing to go up to $10000
because touring for two-three years will save me on rent and utililities.




> The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and;



I weigh 85kgs and considering that someone weighing 100kgs will have the
same problem as me with a trailer. I can have equivalent endurance and
strength. My fitness will adjsut, besides, I'm not carrying the weight, I'm
not goign anywhere too fast, and I will be able to account for this I hope
in my gear differentials.


> Use flat pedals & the same shoes will work,


Considering that one to two hours conversion time is acceptable I would opt
for water tolerant off-road spd or nike bike shoes which don't have proud
clips.


> Shimano make an SPD sandal (SH-SD60) that could work, watch the metal
> cleat doesn't hole the boat.


Actually, the spd sandels are a little dangerous for my liking - RE: rode
over snake

> All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.


Well maybe looking at some custom engineering fetch it up to $10000 - of
course I want solar panels feeding a laptop and the laptop feeding my music
studio, digital camera, satallite phone, and GPS coupled device. Cool
coupling would be with the digital shots.

All great tours must have a Cause. Bombs for Peace, is like ***** for
Virginity. My cause will be "***** for Virginity". I will be calling on all
virgins of australia to sacrafice their virginity to me, merely the
facilitating symbol of concentrated effort, in protest to fighting world
peace with bombs i.e. My contribution to this cause will be to aim to have
sex with 2000 virgins in three years. This is clearly a great sacrafice on
my behalf and will require exceptional organisational skills. But the
reality of war as this metaphore will send headlines around the world and
change the way we think of war as a means to an end. Thus, to mitigate the
sacrafice these noble princesses make, I will need to be at my greatest
sexual attractiveness ever, and touring is a brilliant way to compliment
this. Thus kayaking is an absolute must for upper body workout.
 
J

Jake

Guest
Actually bricks have a sensational drag cooefficient per weight.


"Mike" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> Jake wrote:
> > I've been thinking about rigging up a kayak to double as a trailer for
> > touring. Serious long term touring. It would be perfect aerodynamically.

I
>
> Sorry, but this does not sound liks a good idea. Bikes in general have
> the drag coefficient of a brick, because its just not worth trying to
> make them streamlined. Fairings add weight, and vulnerability to

side-winds.
> And bikes just dont go that fast, unlike motorbikes which have far more
> to gain from streamlining. Kayaks are heavy, and the slightest incline
> will really slow you down. If you want to reduce drag, panniers are FAR
> better than trailers.
> How about carrying a light inflatable raft instead? That'll get you
> across rivers.
> Aerodynamics, and low frontal area are important when racing, but for
> long distance touring, forget about it. Weight becomes the big issue.
>
> > only novicial encounters with kayaking.

>
> Then this is all just a pipe-dream? Leave the kayak at home.
>
 
T

Terry Collins

Guest
Jake wrote:

To start, I am going to be honest and say I thought the same things as
the poster that said your were a fruit loop or whatever when I first
read your posting. It was the lack of kaycking experience that did it.
However, your question of carrying a kayak/canoe on a bicycle trailer is
an interesting exercise, so I was happy to throw in ideas.

I think that you are not really looking at what people are saying to
you. Yes, some of it is dumping on your dreams, but some of it is very
practicle. Dreams are wonderful things, but a bit of reality helps make
bicycle touring a comfortable and enjoyable thing. For me, it can be
fscking bucketting, everything can be wet, the #$^%$^ can have had a
major break down, but so long as I can pitch a tarp, sit and make a
cuppa, then it can all be fixed.

Personally, I think you should reasearch and buy a collapsible bicycle,
then go touring on it for a week/month, etc a number of times. I've been
away with someone who did week end tours on a Moulton. He wore shorts
and shoes and helmet. Everything else fitted into a handlebag (including
the t-shirt for travelling on the trains), with the sleeping bag on
rack. He had one meal, a spare tube, basic tools and if it rained, he
got wet and didn't sleep. If that is how you want to spend your 2-3
years, then fine. Otherwise, those little comforts, like tooth brush,
tent, rain jacket, cold weather gear, snacks, etc tend to add up to
weight, weight, weight, weight, weight.

So, the next thing you are going to have to do, is weigh your bicycle
and your equipment, then find a kayak that will carry that weight in
bricks. Bricks are easy and cheap to replace when you turn turtle, which
is what I think is going to happen when you start loading up a kayak
with a bicycle frame, bicycle trailer, your gear and four wheels.

Also, your bicycle is going to get wet, wet, wet. Despite the best
intentions, **** happens and you can expect it to go into the drink a
few time. If you are planning on crossing dams and deep rivers, I would
also suggest a float and long length of rope on top (just in case).

I suspect you will quickly find that your kayak is history and you
really want a canoe or inflatable boat. At least to carry the bicycle.
Have you considered a seperate inflatable just to carry your bicycle?

<weird idea> Perhaps your panniers/gear storage can be two waterproof
drums that mount like panniers but are the flotation barrels for a raft
that carries your bicycle and kayak trailer behind your kayak?</weird
idea>


> No I think the infaltible is out of the quesiton because it won't hold the
> bicycle and I'll need a decent pump.


The pump is the least of your worries.

You have three classes of water transport.

Rigid: like a fibreglass or plastic kyak.

Constructed: you insert panels or framework into a cloth to create your
kayak/canoe/boat.

Inflatable: kyak, canoe, or boat.


Just my 2c, but anything rigid is not going to like being the load
bearing struture it become when it is the trailer body. Watercraft save
weight be distributing their load "equally" over the water. Converting
that watercraft into trailer suddenly focusses that load into wheel and
link attachment points which have to be reinforced, which is extra
weight.


....snip... useless weekender kayak.



> I'm familiar with the Bob trailers. they are fantastic for what they do but
> may hug too close the ground for the length differentials of a kayak.


Fsck, that wasn't what was said. He was saying that you could easily
carry an inflatable in a bob style trailer.

However, if you wanted to make your kayak into a bob-style trailer, then
you would just use a larger wheel to get clearance. Again, you are going
to need reinforcement in both ends to handle all the forces. Instead, I
would suggest a two wheel trailer design.


....snip......

> > The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and;

>
> I weigh 85kgs and considering that someone weighing 100kgs will have the
> same problem as me with a trailer. I can have equivalent endurance and
> strength. My fitness will adjsut, besides, I'm not carrying the weight, I'm
> not goign anywhere too fast, and I will be able to account for this I hope
> in my gear differentials.


Yep, you will not be going too fast. You will notice it on every little
incline. That extra weight has to be pulled uphill. To appreciate this,
I would suggest doing a weeks tour with a trailer and the weight of the
kayak in bricks.

....snip stuff on shoes...... I wear common sandals or shoes.

> > All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.

>
> Well maybe looking at some custom engineering fetch it up to $10000 - of
> course I want solar panels feeding a laptop and the laptop feeding my music
> studio, digital camera, satallite phone, and GPS coupled device. Cool
> coupling would be with the digital shots.


Have you worked out your energy budget?
You are going to get one big surprise when you work out how much solar
panels space you are going to have to carry around with you.


....snip **** about rooting around Australia. FYI, some middle age old
fart did it twice pushing a postal wheelie, which included a 36 dozen
condoms (or so he said). If it worked for him, I guess it can work for
you.
 
J

Jake

Guest
Well lets say this much. I give you my word I am going to do this and will
leave by June 2004. I'm going touring in Tassie for three weeks Dec 25 - Jan
15, but I won't be doing any brick experiments then. Thus far I've found
this modest candidate but some reengineering would be required to redress
your important concerns about the weight ditribution of trailer mode versus
water mode kayak.

Nice thoughts and will get back to you all once I've fully investigated all
the generous and constructive inputs from this newsgroup.
Cheers,
Jake.


"Terry Collins" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Jake wrote:
>
> To start, I am going to be honest and say I thought the same things as
> the poster that said your were a fruit loop or whatever when I first
> read your posting. It was the lack of kaycking experience that did it.
> However, your question of carrying a kayak/canoe on a bicycle trailer is
> an interesting exercise, so I was happy to throw in ideas.
>
> I think that you are not really looking at what people are saying to
> you. Yes, some of it is dumping on your dreams, but some of it is very
> practicle. Dreams are wonderful things, but a bit of reality helps make
> bicycle touring a comfortable and enjoyable thing. For me, it can be
> fscking bucketting, everything can be wet, the #$^%$^ can have had a
> major break down, but so long as I can pitch a tarp, sit and make a
> cuppa, then it can all be fixed.
>
> Personally, I think you should reasearch and buy a collapsible bicycle,
> then go touring on it for a week/month, etc a number of times. I've been
> away with someone who did week end tours on a Moulton. He wore shorts
> and shoes and helmet. Everything else fitted into a handlebag (including
> the t-shirt for travelling on the trains), with the sleeping bag on
> rack. He had one meal, a spare tube, basic tools and if it rained, he
> got wet and didn't sleep. If that is how you want to spend your 2-3
> years, then fine. Otherwise, those little comforts, like tooth brush,
> tent, rain jacket, cold weather gear, snacks, etc tend to add up to
> weight, weight, weight, weight, weight.
>
> So, the next thing you are going to have to do, is weigh your bicycle
> and your equipment, then find a kayak that will carry that weight in
> bricks. Bricks are easy and cheap to replace when you turn turtle, which
> is what I think is going to happen when you start loading up a kayak
> with a bicycle frame, bicycle trailer, your gear and four wheels.
>
> Also, your bicycle is going to get wet, wet, wet. Despite the best
> intentions, **** happens and you can expect it to go into the drink a
> few time. If you are planning on crossing dams and deep rivers, I would
> also suggest a float and long length of rope on top (just in case).
>
> I suspect you will quickly find that your kayak is history and you
> really want a canoe or inflatable boat. At least to carry the bicycle.
> Have you considered a seperate inflatable just to carry your bicycle?
>
> <weird idea> Perhaps your panniers/gear storage can be two waterproof
> drums that mount like panniers but are the flotation barrels for a raft
> that carries your bicycle and kayak trailer behind your kayak?</weird
> idea>
>
>
> > No I think the infaltible is out of the quesiton because it won't hold

the
> > bicycle and I'll need a decent pump.

>
> The pump is the least of your worries.
>
> You have three classes of water transport.
>
> Rigid: like a fibreglass or plastic kyak.
>
> Constructed: you insert panels or framework into a cloth to create your
> kayak/canoe/boat.
>
> Inflatable: kyak, canoe, or boat.
>
>
> Just my 2c, but anything rigid is not going to like being the load
> bearing struture it become when it is the trailer body. Watercraft save
> weight be distributing their load "equally" over the water. Converting
> that watercraft into trailer suddenly focusses that load into wheel and
> link attachment points which have to be reinforced, which is extra
> weight.
>
>
> ...snip... useless weekender kayak.
>
>
>
> > I'm familiar with the Bob trailers. they are fantastic for what they do

but
> > may hug too close the ground for the length differentials of a kayak.

>
> Fsck, that wasn't what was said. He was saying that you could easily
> carry an inflatable in a bob style trailer.
>
> However, if you wanted to make your kayak into a bob-style trailer, then
> you would just use a larger wheel to get clearance. Again, you are going
> to need reinforcement in both ends to handle all the forces. Instead, I
> would suggest a two wheel trailer design.
>
>
> ...snip......
>
> > > The problems now are; towing the extra 21+ kgs of boat and;

> >
> > I weigh 85kgs and considering that someone weighing 100kgs will have the
> > same problem as me with a trailer. I can have equivalent endurance and
> > strength. My fitness will adjsut, besides, I'm not carrying the weight,

I'm
> > not goign anywhere too fast, and I will be able to account for this I

hope
> > in my gear differentials.

>
> Yep, you will not be going too fast. You will notice it on every little
> incline. That extra weight has to be pulled uphill. To appreciate this,
> I would suggest doing a weeks tour with a trailer and the weight of the
> kayak in bricks.
>
> ...snip stuff on shoes...... I wear common sandals or shoes.
>
> > > All up cost, about $4500. Have fun & post some photo's.

> >
> > Well maybe looking at some custom engineering fetch it up to $10000 - of
> > course I want solar panels feeding a laptop and the laptop feeding my

music
> > studio, digital camera, satallite phone, and GPS coupled device. Cool
> > coupling would be with the digital shots.

>
> Have you worked out your energy budget?
> You are going to get one big surprise when you work out how much solar
> panels space you are going to have to carry around with you.
>
>
> ...snip **** about rooting around Australia. FYI, some middle age old
> fart did it twice pushing a postal wheelie, which included a 36 dozen
> condoms (or so he said). If it worked for him, I guess it can work for
> you.
 
T

Theo Bekkers

Guest
"Jake" wrote
> Actually bricks have a sensational drag cooefficient per weight.


A brick (or more correctly, a cube) has a drag coefficient of 1. It's
weight is irrelevant. A modern sedan has a drag coefficient of around
0.3 or better.

Theo
 
J

Jake

Guest
Well if a brick is the maximum drag with coefficient of the WHOLE '1' then
what is the drag cof of a parachute?
"Theo Bekkers" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:D[email protected]
> "Jake" wrote
> > Actually bricks have a sensational drag cooefficient per weight.

>
> A brick (or more correctly, a cube) has a drag coefficient of 1. It's
> weight is irrelevant. A modern sedan has a drag coefficient of around
> 0.3 or better.
>
> Theo
>
>
 

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