Keeping warm and dry in the cold and wet



D

David Martin

Guest
Pinky wrote:
>
> The Altura Nevis is a very reasonably priced Waterproof jacket which has
> seen me through two winters and two long cycle camping tours.


I have one of these. It is a good piece of kit though the front zip
could be a more robust design.
Done me just over a year, and still going strong. Currently worn every
day as I ride to the lab.

> ( I haven't written up my journal for 2005 but my journal for 2004 to Spain
> has some photos of me in full "winter warfare kit!
> www.tapan.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk -- I encountered some snow on four days in
> Northern Spain!)


I heard about the pilgrimage. It is something I would like to do at
some point.

...d
 
N

Nick Kew

Guest
Mike Civil wrote:
> In article <[email protected]>,
> wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>
>> But one always has
>>a balck bottom, so to speak.

>
>
> Um, is this some female type medical complaint?


It's brought on by envy of bibshorts.

--
not me guv
 
P

POHB

Guest
Let's hear it for the Altura Nevis!
Mine has done me fine for 2 years of daily commuting.
Mind you, it isn't as hi-viz as it used to be.

"David Martin" wrote
>
> Pinky wrote:
>>
>> The Altura Nevis is a very reasonably priced Waterproof jacket which has
>> seen me through two winters and two long cycle camping tours.

>
> I have one of these. It is a good piece of kit though the front zip
> could be a more robust design.
> Done me just over a year, and still going strong. Currently worn every
> day as I ride to the lab.
>
 
P

POHB

Guest
Granny was probably more used to getting cold and wet than folks nowadays.
Back in the days before central heating and air-conditioned cars there
wasn't the expectation that you'd always be at a comfortable temperature,
you just got on with it. We sent our boys to fight in the trenches in
midwinter in far worse clothing than a lot of folks would now deem
neccessary for a walk down the high street.
The requirement to take a shower the moment you raise a sweat is relatively
new too.
Mammals are pretty well equipped to maintain a constant body temperature and
skin is waterproof.
One of the great things about cycling is that you notice the weather and the
seasons rather than trying to hide from them.

- Pat

P.S. Of course I wear a fancy modern cycling jacket etc. and shower when I
get to work.

"Fay" wrote
>
> I don't want to buy special cycling clothes. I want to buy some clothes
> which will pass equally well as ordinary walking about and shopping
> clothes. I'm sure my grandmother, who cycled most days into her 70s
> with a wicker shopping basket on her ancient bicycle, knew answers to
> this problem.
 
J

James Annan

Guest
Clive George wrote:

> Winter
> cycling tights - ones with a slightly fleecy feel - are jolly good in both
> cold and wet. Then a skirt over the top takes care of the looks.


I''ll take your word for it!

James
PS No, I know I didn't have anything useful to add, but just wanted to
play with a bit of context-altering snipping...:)
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Nick Kew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Mike Civil wrote:
>> In article <[email protected]>,
>> wafflycat <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote:
>>
>>> But one always
>>> has a balck bottom, so to speak.

>>
>>
>> Um, is this some female type medical complaint?

>
> It's brought on by envy of bibshorts.
>


No, envy is not the accurate term ;-)

Cheers, helen s
 
J

John Hearns

Guest
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 08:56:29 +0000, POHB wrote:

> Granny was probably more used to getting cold and wet than folks nowadays.
> Back in the days before central heating and air-conditioned cars there
> wasn't the expectation that you'd always be at a comfortable temperature,
> you just got on with it. We sent our boys to fight in the trenches in
> midwinter in far worse clothing than a lot of folks would now deem
> neccessary for a walk down the high street.


I remember reading in one of Lynne McDonalds books that greatcoats were
forbidden in the trenches.
I've never worn one, but I would imagine that the British Army greatcoat
of the time would function as a pretty good improvised bivvy, ie, troops
would be able to sleep outdoors in them.
Looking for some confirmation from the group, the reason for banning them
might be something do do with 'fighting spirit' and being ready at all
times. Seems ruddy cruel to me though to deprive men of the means to keep
warm. Henc
 
F

Fay

Guest
David Martin wrote:
> Fay wrote:
> > My New Year resolution is to return to the cycling to work I enjoyed in
> > the summer, and in future not to stop when it gets cold and wet. I'm a
> > middle aged woman just cycling slowly to the office for some exercise.
> > I'm not concerned to build up super fitness or enter races. My problem
> > is that it's hard to find clothes which are warm enough when I'm cold,
> > but cool enough that I don't sweat a lot when I've warmed up.

>
> How far are you riding and on what sort of terrain? I ride to work
> about 1.5 miles and don't bother with anything special.


My ride to the office is about 1.5 miles too. Shopping sometimes sees
me going as far as 3 or 4. Visiting friends can take me up to about 6.
That's getting to be the kind of distance that in this winter weather I
prefer to do on four wheels.

> During the
> winter I wear a fleece and a raincoat (cycle specific cut but an
> ordinary one does fine) when the weather demands. If it doesn't demant
> I put it in the pannier bag. In summer I dispense with the fleece and
> usually the raincoat as well.
>
>
> This is the typical layering problem. You have two options:
>
> 1. cycle slowly so you never get too warm. Not really an appropriate
> option in anything other than very flat lands.


Edinburgh. Need I say more? :)

> 2. Take a jumper/cardigan that you can take off when riding and put
> back on when you stop.
>
> > It's even
> > harder to find something reasonably rain proof which doesn't make me
> > wetter than rain because of sweating inside it.

>
> A modern fleece with the appropriate cover/lining will provide
> showerproof cycling wear. There is no option but getting wet from
> exercise in a downpour except to wear waterproofs and slow down.
>
>
> > I don't want to buy special cycling clothes. I want to buy some clothes
> > which will pass equally well as ordinary walking about and shopping
> > clothes.

>
> Cycling or running tights will provide appropriate warmth in the winter
> and can be disguised easily with a skirt or baggy shorts/trousers as
> appropriate.


Sounds like the local outdoor shops would be a good place to look.
There's plenty of middle aged skiers and hillwalkers who don't want to
look like an explosion in a paint shop.

> > I'm sure my grandmother, who cycled most days into her 70s
> > with a wicker shopping basket on her ancient bicycle, knew answers to
> > this problem.

> She probably cycled at a 'ladylike' pace and carried a spare pullover
> in the basket.


I've been trying to remember. I think she wore a general purpose coat,
not thick, showeproof rather than waterprrod, and I think she did cary
a cardigan in the basket!

I have a metal shopping basket on my city hybrid bike, attached with
metal hooks. I'm sure it's heavier than my gran's wicker basket, which
was attached by leather straps. It's also about half the size of her
wicker basket. That doesn't look like progress to me!

> > I'm sure that with today's modern materials there are
> > even better answers to this problem than she knew. But going into
> > bicycle shops staffed by muscular teenagers wearing cycling tights I
> > don't seem to heading in the right direction to find an answer :)

>
> Find clothes that are comfortable. Avoid cotton. Be prepared to be cold
> as you start off and warm up underway. Take clothes off and put them on
> as appropriate.
>
> Sorrry I can't give you any specifics. It depends on how far you are
> riding, for how long, how prepared you are to change clothes, what sort
> of things you are happy to wear to go shopping and so on.


The answers in this weather seem to be rarely more than a few miles or
forty minutes. With better clothes, and if I got fitter, I might go
further. I remember as a young girl I was quite happy doing a 30 mile
round trip on a summer's day.

I'd prefer to be able to open and close things rather than change. I'm
too old to be bothered trying to look glamorous. So long as I look more
like someone who likes being out in the weather rather than someone
with no choice, like a bag lady, I'm happy. I'm more bothered with how
I feel than how I look. Undermeath my outdoor stuff I have to be
wearing office suitable clothes. Since there's others in the office my
age who wear T-shirt and jeans or what I call old gypsy gear that's not
too demanding. "Old gypsy gear" means long brightly coloured skirts and
enough clanking beads and brooches to scare off birds :)

Fay
 
F

Fay

Guest
Peter B wrote:
> "Fay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > My New Year resolution is to return to the cycling to work I enjoyed in
> > the summer, and in future not to stop when it gets cold and wet. I'm a
> > middle aged woman just cycling slowly to the office for some exercise.
> > I'm not concerned to build up super fitness or enter races. My problem
> > is that it's hard to find clothes which are warm enough when I'm cold,
> > but cool enough that I don't sweat a lot when I've warmed up. It's even
> > harder to find something reasonably rain proof which doesn't make me
> > wetter than rain because of sweating inside it.

>
> I think that you have to accept being cold on some points of a winter bike
> ride if you want to avoid getting too hot <1>.
> Based on my own experience when I first go outside I'll feel cool but as
> soon as I start cycling I'll feel cold until my body generates heat from
> work due to wind chill.
> If I then cycle slowly up a hill I'll get very warm but feel colder
> descending the other side fast.
> Maybe Grandmother was just more accepting of being cold and didn't expect
> the ambient temp to be a constant 22c which we now come to expect ;-)


I'm more traditional than that. Like my grandmother I live in a
traditional old house which is ventilated by draughts. The temperature
rarely exceeds 19C in a warm room unless I've invited some centrally
heated friends round for dinner :)

> On a longish ride it's not a problem to use the layering technique: Base
> layer to wick perspiration, mid layer for warmth and shell to keep out wind
> and/or rain but this isn't cheap and may not be practical for a short
> commute, I'll leave the commuters on the group to provide tried & tested
> solutions.


Sounds an interesting technique . It wouldn't be practical for my
office, but if I'm going further I wouldn't be going to the office.

Fay
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Fay" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
>
> David Martin wrote:
>> Fay wrote:
>> > My New Year resolution is to return to the cycling to work I enjoyed in
>> > the summer, and in future not to stop when it gets cold and wet. I'm a
>> > middle aged woman just cycling slowly to the office for some exercise.
>> > I'm not concerned to build up super fitness or enter races. My problem
>> > is that it's hard to find clothes which are warm enough when I'm cold,
>> > but cool enough that I don't sweat a lot when I've warmed up.

>>
>> How far are you riding and on what sort of terrain? I ride to work
>> about 1.5 miles and don't bother with anything special.

>
> My ride to the office is about 1.5 miles too. Shopping sometimes sees
> me going as far as 3 or 4. Visiting friends can take me up to about 6.
> That's getting to be the kind of distance that in this winter weather I
> prefer to do on four wheels.
>


1.5 miles, even I, a devout follower of the church of cycling attire, would
be happy to do in 'normal' clothes :) Mind you, I adore RonHill Bikesters as
they are incredibly useful attire. Remove the reflective strip from the back
of each leg and you would not know they are cycling attire.



snippity..

>
> Sounds like the local outdoor shops would be a good place to look.
> There's plenty of middle aged skiers and hillwalkers who don't want to
> look like an explosion in a paint shop.
>


There's several Edinburgh cyclists post here, who could prolly tell you of
decent shops. Mind you, there's the Edinburgh Bicycle Co-op at
8 Alvanley Terrace, Whitehouse Loan. Not all cycling attire is coloured for
those of us who have a leaning for the highly coloured :)



>> > I'm sure my grandmother, who cycled most days into her 70s
>> > with a wicker shopping basket on her ancient bicycle, knew answers to
>> > this problem.

>> She probably cycled at a 'ladylike' pace and carried a spare pullover
>> in the basket.

>
> I've been trying to remember. I think she wore a general purpose coat,
> not thick, showeproof rather than waterprrod, and I think she did cary
> a cardigan in the basket!
>
> I have a metal shopping basket on my city hybrid bike, attached with
> metal hooks. I'm sure it's heavier than my gran's wicker basket, which
> was attached by leather straps. It's also about half the size of her
> wicker basket. That doesn't look like progress to me!
>
>> > I'm sure that with today's modern materials there are
>> > even better answers to this problem than she knew. But going into
>> > bicycle shops staffed by muscular teenagers wearing cycling tights I
>> > don't seem to heading in the right direction to find an answer :)

>>
>> Find clothes that are comfortable. Avoid cotton. Be prepared to be cold
>> as you start off and warm up underway. Take clothes off and put them on
>> as appropriate.
>>
>> Sorrry I can't give you any specifics. It depends on how far you are
>> riding, for how long, how prepared you are to change clothes, what sort
>> of things you are happy to wear to go shopping and so on.

>
> The answers in this weather seem to be rarely more than a few miles or
> forty minutes. With better clothes, and if I got fitter, I might go
> further. I remember as a young girl I was quite happy doing a 30 mile
> round trip on a summer's day.
>


When this middle-aged overweight woman first got back on a bike a few years
ago, I couldn't cycle the 5 miles into town without getting off for a
breather several of times... The key is to cycle often and gradually work up
the mileages. I find that tea shops provide suitable points to aim for and
encouragement in getting to the next one :)


> I'd prefer to be able to open and close things rather than change. I'm
> too old to be bothered trying to look glamorous. So long as I look more
> like someone who likes being out in the weather rather than someone
> with no choice, like a bag lady, I'm happy. I'm more bothered with how
> I feel than how I look. Undermeath my outdoor stuff I have to be
> wearing office suitable clothes. Since there's others in the office my
> age who wear T-shirt and jeans or what I call old gypsy gear that's not
> too demanding. "Old gypsy gear" means long brightly coloured skirts and
> enough clanking beads and brooches to scare off birds :)
>


And you are worried about brightly coloured Lycra? ;-)

Cheers, helen s
 
F

Fay

Guest
dkahn400 wrote:
> Fay wrote:
>
> > I don't want to buy special cycling clothes. I want to buy some clothes
> > which will pass equally well as ordinary walking about and shopping
> > clothes.

>
> Unfortunately cycling-specific is best, particularly for your jacket.
> This is both for the cut and for visibility. A cycling jacket will be
> cut longer in the back and the sleeves to make sure your lower back and
> wrists remain covered.


I hadn't thought of that. I suspect it's not so important if you're an
old fashioned lady cyclist who sits up. I haven't noticed that kind of
problem with the ordinary street clothes I wear on the bike.

> The pockets will be positioned so things in them
> won't get in your way as you reach forward for the handlebars. It will
> also have reflective strips built into it that will help you to be seen
> at night. These can be quite discreet so it doesn't have to shout
> "cyclist". There are styles that are quite wearable off the bike.


Those are good points. I haven't noticed pockets getting in the way of
my reach. I have noticed heavy things in my pockets bumping up and down
on my legs as I cycle. Obviously the wrong pockets.

> I understand the problem with being intimidated by the lads in the bike
> shop, so why not have a look on-line? Go to <http://www.wiggle.co.uk/>
> and then pick "Waterproofs - Cycle Jackets" from the bar on the left.
> Then have a look, for example, at the Altura Womens Nevis Jacket. Both
> the blue and grey versions could pass for ordinary leisure jackets in
> spite of the relective piping and zipped rear pocket. It's a well
> respected make and currently at a very good price.


I don't mind buying on-line, but I do want to try clothes on before
buying them.

Fay
 
D

David Martin

Guest
Fay wrote:
> dkahn400 wrote:
> > Fay wrote:
> >
> > > I don't want to buy special cycling clothes. I want to buy some clothes
> > > which will pass equally well as ordinary walking about and shopping
> > > clothes.

> >
> > Unfortunately cycling-specific is best, particularly for your jacket.
> > This is both for the cut and for visibility. A cycling jacket will be
> > cut longer in the back and the sleeves to make sure your lower back and
> > wrists remain covered.

>
> I hadn't thought of that. I suspect it's not so important if you're an
> old fashioned lady cyclist who sits up. I haven't noticed that kind of
> problem with the ordinary street clothes I wear on the bike.


There are plenty of designs available. most aim to not have front
pockets, and to minimise the amount of loose material so are a
reasonably snug fit (more so for me than most). A normal coat would be
fine if it is not too long, and less of a problem if you are quite
upright.


> > The pockets will be positioned so things in them
> > won't get in your way as you reach forward for the handlebars. It will
> > also have reflective strips built into it that will help you to be seen
> > at night. These can be quite discreet so it doesn't have to shout
> > "cyclist". There are styles that are quite wearable off the bike.

>
> Those are good points. I haven't noticed pockets getting in the way of
> my reach. I have noticed heavy things in my pockets bumping up and down
> on my legs as I cycle. Obviously the wrong pockets.


Big patch pockets on the front of an outdoors coat? Not a problem if
you don't put stuff in them ;-)
That is what the basket is for on the front. It can be useful to have a
bungee (elastic clip) to ensure that what you have put in the basket
stays there. I tend to try to use a small rucksack rather than having
stuff in pockets- are you a handbag sort of person?


> > I understand the problem with being intimidated by the lads in the bike
> > shop, so why not have a look on-line? Go to <http://www.wiggle.co.uk/>
> > and then pick "Waterproofs - Cycle Jackets" from the bar on the left.
> > Then have a look, for example, at the Altura Womens Nevis Jacket. Both
> > the blue and grey versions could pass for ordinary leisure jackets in
> > spite of the relective piping and zipped rear pocket. It's a well
> > respected make and currently at a very good price.

>
> I don't mind buying on-line, but I do want to try clothes on before
> buying them.


Nip along to a cycle shop or outdoors shop and try stuff on. You sound
like the sort of person who can tell a spotty oik in lycra what you
wnat to do and what colours/styles you find acceptable.

Key thing with any coat is ventilation control - stopping the wind
getting in the front but letting it out everywhere else. The Altura
Nevis has 'pit zips', underarm ventilation. I opened mine when I first
got it and have never needed to close them since.

As for trousers/legs, it depends what you want to wear. A pair of
legwarmers (visions of Fame! all over again) can be good to keep legs
warm on a short trip and are easily removed. For wet/cold heavier
weight trousers are fine but try to avoid things like cotton (eg jeans)
which are relatively uncomfortable to cycle in and awful when wet.

...d
 
A

Ambrose Nankivell

Guest
POHB wrote:
> P.S. Of course I wear a fancy modern cycling jacket etc. and shower
> when I get to work.
>

I wear a tatty fleece when I get to work. I think wearing a shower and fancy
modern cycling jacket would be frowned upon. For one thing, I'd get the
books wet.

That said, despite the fact that I benefit from 4kW of heating all to
myself, I'm normally working in an ambient temperature of about 10 celsius.

When on the bike, my technical clothing consists of a merino polo neck I
bought by mistake 6 years ago, which is warm but dorky, and some sheepskin
gloves of the same vintage. It seems to do the job.
--
Ambrose
 
C

Clive George

Guest
"wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]

> Mind you, I adore RonHill Bikesters as they are incredibly useful attire.


Not as warm as roubaix-type cycling tights though - have you tried them?
Wife rather likes the ones she's got - non bib. And you can wear ronnies on
top!

cheers,
clive
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"Clive George" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> "wafflycat" <w*a*ff£y£cat*@£btco*nn£ect.com> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
>
>> Mind you, I adore RonHill Bikesters as they are incredibly useful attire.

>
> Not as warm as roubaix-type cycling tights though - have you tried them?
> Wife rather likes the ones she's got - non bib. And you can wear ronnies
> on top!
>
> cheers,
> clive


If it's really cold, I just stick a pair of longjohns under the Bikesters.

Cheers, helen s
p.s. Glad to see your better half has the correct attitude ;-)
 
J

John Hearns

Guest
On Thu, 05 Jan 2006 11:24:47 +0000, Ambrose Nankivell wrote:


>
> That said, despite the fact that I benefit from 4kW of heating all to
> myself, I'm normally working in an ambient temperature of about 10
> celsius.

Get round the back, and start running something CPU intensive. Toasty warm
then. And wear those ear plugs. I SAID WEAR THOSE EAR PLUGS.
 
D

dkahn400

Guest
Fay wrote:

> My ride to the office is about 1.5 miles too. Shopping sometimes sees
> me going as far as 3 or 4. Visiting friends can take me up to about 6.
> That's getting to be the kind of distance that in this winter weather I
> prefer to do on four wheels.


<snip>

> The answers in this weather seem to be rarely more than a few miles or
> forty minutes. With better clothes, and if I got fitter, I might go
> further. I remember as a young girl I was quite happy doing a 30 mile
> round trip on a summer's day.


I think it's quite important to solve this clothing problem. It's only
by extending your distance that you will get fitter, but that won't
happen if your clothing doesn't let you do that comfortably. In the
first paragraph I quoted you seem to be suggesting that your clothing
only needs to cope with very short rides. In the second you admit that
with better clothing you would be tempted to go further and so get more
benefit from your cycling, which means you'd enjoy it more and go
further still, and so on.

It's a problem only you can solve but to me it seems to be pointing in
the direction of cycling gear that will pass when off the bike rather
than ordinary clothes that you can cycle in, which would be perfectly
OK if you were definite about short rides only.

You shouldn't feel limited by no longer being a young girl either. Some
of us round here are not exactly spring chickens but we seem to manage
reasonable distances.

--
Dave...
 
W

wafflycat

Guest
"dkahn400" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> Fay wrote:
>
>> My ride to the office is about 1.5 miles too. Shopping sometimes sees
>> me going as far as 3 or 4. Visiting friends can take me up to about 6.
>> That's getting to be the kind of distance that in this winter weather I
>> prefer to do on four wheels.

>
> <snip>
>
>> The answers in this weather seem to be rarely more than a few miles or
>> forty minutes. With better clothes, and if I got fitter, I might go
>> further. I remember as a young girl I was quite happy doing a 30 mile
>> round trip on a summer's day.

>
> I think it's quite important to solve this clothing problem. It's only
> by extending your distance that you will get fitter, but that won't
> happen if your clothing doesn't let you do that comfortably. In the
> first paragraph I quoted you seem to be suggesting that your clothing
> only needs to cope with very short rides. In the second you admit that
> with better clothing you would be tempted to go further and so get more
> benefit from your cycling, which means you'd enjoy it more and go
> further still, and so on.
>


As a middle-aged woman cyclist, I agree that if the clothing is right, in
the sense that it is 'fit for purpose', then cycling any sort of distance
becomes much a much more plesant experience.


> It's a problem only you can solve but to me it seems to be pointing in
> the direction of cycling gear that will pass when off the bike rather
> than ordinary clothes that you can cycle in, which would be perfectly
> OK if you were definite about short rides only.
>
> You shouldn't feel limited by no longer being a young girl either. Some
> of us round here are not exactly spring chickens but we seem to manage
> reasonable distances.
>


Oh indeedee, we middle-aged ladies can manage distances we never thought
possible when we first got back on a bike. I never thought I'd cycle round
Paris in the rush-hour, do the Paris bit of the Tour de France, cycle along
the Rhine, round Bordeaux region... I am *so* glad I got back on a bike.
Even if it does mean I inflict thge sight of me wearing acres of bright
and/or fluorescent yellow upon the retinas of the general public ;-)

Cheers, helen s




> --
> Dave...
>
 
C

Chris Malcolm

Guest
Tosspot <[email protected]> wrote:
> Fay wrote:
> <snip>


>> I don't want to buy special cycling clothes. I want to buy some clothes
>> which will pass equally well as ordinary walking about and shopping
>> clothes.


> <snip>


> Buffalo jackets used to work well. Theres probably more modern, better
> stuff about these days. http://www.buffalosystems.co.uk/dpthumbs.htm


For winter cycling of distances greater than about 4 miles (my office
commuting distance) I wear a Buffalo shirt over a Helly Hansen
half-merino half-polyester wicking T-shirt. With tights and trousers
that keeps me warm and not feeling wet while able to sweat a lot. I
control the difference between varieties of cold by headgear. As it
gets colder I switch from a woolly hat to a warmer wind-stopper hat
plus ear muffs. When its very cold I install the optional extra
buffalo hood. When it rains more than lightly I switch from fleecy
gloves to waterproof.

That kit was my introduction to the modern concept of sweat-permeable
non-waterproof garments which are only showerproof, but keep you warm
when wet and dry out while being worn very quickly. A real revelation.

When hillwalking the same combination works well while I'm moving, but
in frosty windy weather is too cold for standing about, so I carry a
light mountain coat to put on top when I stop moving and start cooling
down.

I've been so impressed by the utility of this sweat-permeable
non-waterproof idea, that I've taken an old woolly windcheater I've
had for years, and treated it with showerproofing which makes rain
bead and bounce off. Without that it simply soaked up rain like a
sponge. With this showerproofing it has become transformed into a
useful non-sweaty cycling to work and walking about garment which
takes rain of less than than half an hour's duration in its stride.

--
Chris Malcolm [email protected] +44 (0)131 651 3445 DoD #205
IPAB, Informatics, JCMB, King's Buildings, Edinburgh, EH9 3JZ, UK
[http://www.dai.ed.ac.uk/homes/cam/]