"John Claude" <urajzed@NO*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Pizza Girl <
[email protected]> wrote in message
news:c59a-
>
[email protected]...
> > He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.
>
> I was beginning to wonder if this was a default attitude
> on this NG for dealing with someone who says something
> incorrect. I just associated, as
I
> was writing the sentence, ketosis with starvation and
> protein catabolism, as the medical establishment has for
> years. But I can change, really I
can.
>
> I don't claim to be an authority, but let's listen to
> someone who may be:
>
http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/242/77461
>
> "Maria C. Linder is on the faculty at California State
> University Fullerton, California in the Department of
> Chemistry and Biochemistry. All quotes are from her
> textbook; "Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism:
with
> clinical applications", Maria C. Linder. pages 87-109.
> Chapter Eight: Nutrition and Metabolism of Protein."
>
> "Early in fasting glycogen reserves are depleted, and
> protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major source of
> carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
> substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous
> system on a daily basis. There is also an initiation of
> ketone body production by the liver to provide a more
> water soluble form of
fat-derived
> fuel."
>
> "DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE
> PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."
>
> ""The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for
> protein-dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its
> production of ketones, a fuel ALTERNATIVE
to
> glucose for MOST CELLS.
>
> Circulating ketones reach maximum levels after about ten
> days of fasting
and
> now substitute for much of the glucose requirement of the
> central nervous system. This drastically reduces the need
> for catabolism of muscle
protein."
>
> "With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen
> excretion also
declines.
> And there is a shift from the excretion of urea to a
> predominance of
ammonia
> loss. This shift toward ammonia versus urea parallels the
> increased production and excretion of keto acids, and
> serves to MAINTAIN ACID / BASE BALANCE."
>
> "The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of
> carbons that
can
> be used for glucose production when needed. However the
> body prevents excessive losses of muscle protein over long
> periods of fasting by
adapting
> the central nervous system to utilization of ketone bodies
> for fuel."
>
> What I take from this is that the body may simultaneously
> turn to muscle protein and dietary protein while it is
> adjusting to ketosis. Once
ketosis
> is in full swing, then the need for protein catabolism
> decreases. Is it less than when the body was a glucose
> machine (since there is always a baseline of protein
> catabolisis going on at any time- right Mark? Some amino
> acids are known as ketogenic*, right Mark? )? I don't
> know. Does anyone have the answer for that? It could be
> different for each person.
Is
> this a good idea for bodybuilders? I don't know. I think
> maybe- but
then
> I'm not sure, because I haven't taken the time to know
> everything- that
some
> bodybuilders, some athletes, some of the greatest sports
> performers ever have been able to do what they do without
> ketosis. Maybe our good troll knows, and maybe he'd like
> to teach us something, or would he rather spew more
> profanity and poison about the group?
>
> *"Carbon skeletons of ketogenic amino acids can be
> catabolized for energy
in
> Krebs Cycle, or converted to ketone bodies or fatty
> acids."
>
http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:mY7HOp5_icIJ:www.rpi.e-
du/dept/bcbp/molb
> iochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/23-
> aacarb.ppt+ketogenic+amino+acids&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
>
> I will admit my error on the brain's use of glucose: it
> will use ketones, and from what I've read, the brain and
> many other organs will prefer to
use
> ketones for fuel when they are available. This may
> support the argument that ketosis is "normal," but maybe
> it is just another way to control the level of ketones
> in the body - i.e. "get rid of these first." I don't
> know. Just thought I'd throw it out there for
> discussion. Am I allowed
to
> discuss things here, with the possibility of making an
> error, or do I have to know a lot of things and insult
> people that don't?
>
> The gist of my original post was only this: yes, be
> skeptical. Yeah, I'm
a
> danger.
>
> JC
>
>
>
Thanks JC, You did well to correct some parts of your
earlier mistake. Could it be the efficiency of the body to
utilise ketones the result of why some people tend to stay
leaner then others (once genetics and muscle mass is ruled
out). Just a topic of discussion. John S
://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-