Ketosis

Discussion in 'Food and nutrition' started by John S, Mar 6, 2004.

  1. John S

    John S Guest

    Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there are any
    knowledgable people out there that can explain the above
    subject to me in more detail. I would like to try it, but am
    sceptical there isn't enough research information out there
    to back up trying to go into a state of ketosis. I exercise
    quite regulary and am a undergo regular weight training. Is
    this lifestyle choice a bad one cause of low Carbohydrate
    levels? Any advice from anyone, or especially people who are
    quite sports oreintated, please post feedback. I'm a healthy
    24 year old with no family history of heart problems under
    55. Thanks in Advance John
     
    Tags:


  2. [email protected] [email protected] [email protected] Once
    upon a time, our fellow John S rambled on about "Ketosis."
    Our champion De-Medicalizing in sci.med.nutrition retorts,
    thusly ...

    >I'm a healthy 24 year old with no family history of heart
    >problems under 55.

    That pretty much explains the low IQ problem.

    Ha, ... Hah, Ha!

    Just my opinion. But, I am *right* as usual!
     
  3. John Claude

    John Claude Guest

    John S <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there are
    > any knowledgable people out there that can explain the
    > above subject to me in more detail. I would like to
    try
    > it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
    > information out there to back up trying to go into a state
    > of ketosis.

    So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey, it
    works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body of
    carbohydrates until it burns protein? Not trying to flame
    you, just checking your logic. Something about us humans
    seems to trust an anecdote ("my grandmother smoked until she
    was 90") rather than research across a population. I did
    some research on ketosis on the net a while back and found a
    lot of info out there. It does seem to take away a lot of
    weight for people with serious obesity. I think there's too
    much potential for damage. While the rest of the body can
    switch to ketosis for energy, the brain needs glucose. There
    are people who think that ketosis is actually a natural
    state, and there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at
    the NIH who is trying to prove this, that we as prehistoric
    humans regularly starved, and the agricultural revolution
    has locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that the
    brain works more efficiently on ketones.

    Here's Veech's position: http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/intramura-
    l/web_lmbb/LMBB%20PDF_Folder/VeechIUBMBLif e2001_241.pdf

    Ketosis may cause heart problems:ttp://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
    diet.htm

    And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
    http://www.thedietchannel.com/weight.htm#Fad%20Diets

    >I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular weight
    >training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad one cause of low
    >Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from anyone, or especially
    >people who are quite sports oreintated, please post
    >feedback. I'm a
    healthy
    > 24 year old with no family history of heart problems
    > under 55.

    -So why fix it if it ain't broke?

    John Claude
     
  4. Susan

    Susan Guest

    x-no-archive: yes

    >While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
    >energy, the brain needs glucose.

    The brain can use ketones, too. And any additional glucose
    requirements can be easily met by protein, which converts to
    glucose, just less efficiently and completely than carbs.

    There is no such thing in human nutrition as an essential
    carbohydrate, just essential fats and proteins.

    Some carbs can be part of a healthy diet, but they aren't
    necessary.

    Susan
     
  5. Mark D.

    Mark D. Guest

    "John Claude" <[email protected]*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > John S <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there are
    > > any knowledgable people out
    there
    > > that can explain the above subject to me in more detail.
    > > I would like to
    > try
    > > it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
    > > information out there
    to
    > > back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.
    >
    > So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey, it
    > works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body of
    > carbohydrates until it burns protein?

    Burns *protein*?

    You are full of shit, sonny.

    Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut into two-
    and four-carbon fragments called ketones or ketone bodies.

    Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.

    Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're talking
    about: until that time, you're a danger.

    > Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.

    No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what you're
    talking about. Go away.

    > Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote ("my
    > grandmother smoked until
    she
    > was 90") rather than research across a population. I did
    > some research on ketosis on the net a while back and found
    > a lot of info out there. It
    does
    > seem to take away a lot of weight for people with serious
    > obesity. I
    think
    > there's too much potential for damage.

    Who gives a shit what you think? You've already proved that
    you don't know what you're talking about. Go away.

    > While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
    > energy, the brain needs glucose. There are people
    who
    > think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
    > there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the NIH who
    > is trying to prove this, that
    we
    > as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
    > agricultural revolution
    has
    > locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that the
    > brain works more efficiently on ketones.
    >
    > Here's Veech's position:
    >
    http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/intramural/web_lmbb/LMBB%20PDF_Fol-
    der/VeechIUBMBLif
    > e2001_241.pdf
    >
    > Ketosis may cause heart problems:p://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
    > diet.htm
    >
    > And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
    > http://www.thedietchannel.com/weight.htm#Fad%20Diets
    >
    > >I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular weight
    > >training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad one cause of low
    > >Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from anyone, or
    > >especially people who are quite sports oreintated, please
    > >post feedback. I'm a
    > healthy
    > > 24 year old with no family history of heart problems
    > > under 55.
    >
    > -So why fix it if it ain't broke?
    >

    You don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
    You're a danger.

    M.
     
  6. John S

    John S Guest

    "Susan " <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > x-no-archive: yes
    >
    > >While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
    > >energy, the brain needs glucose.
    >
    > The brain can use ketones, too. And any additional glucose
    > requirements
    can be
    > easily met by protein, which converts to glucose, just
    > less efficiently
    and
    > completely than carbs.
    >
    > There is no such thing in human nutrition as an essential
    > carbohydrate,
    just
    > essential fats and proteins.
    >
    > Some carbs can be part of a healthy diet, but they aren't
    > necessary.
    >
    > Susan

    Thanks for the input John s
     
  7. John S

    John S Guest

    "Mark D." <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "John Claude" <[email protected]*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > John S <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there
    > > > are any knowledgable people out
    > there
    > > > that can explain the above subject to me in more
    > > > detail. I would like
    to
    > > try
    > > > it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
    > > > information out there
    > to
    > > > back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.
    > >
    > > So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey, it
    > > works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body of
    > > carbohydrates until it burns protein?
    >
    > Burns *protein*?
    >
    > You are full of shit, sonny.
    >
    > Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut
    > into two- and four-carbon fragments called ketones or
    > ketone bodies.
    >
    > Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.
    >
    > Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're talking
    > about: until that time, you're a danger.
    >
    > > Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.
    >
    > No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what you're
    > talking about.
    Go
    > away.
    >
    > > Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote
    > > ("my grandmother smoked until
    > she
    > > was 90") rather than research across a population. I did
    > > some research
    on
    > > ketosis on the net a while back and found a lot of info
    > > out there. It
    > does
    > > seem to take away a lot of weight for people with
    > > serious obesity. I
    > think
    > > there's too much potential for damage.
    >
    > Who gives a shit what you think? You've already proved
    > that you don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
    >
    > > While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
    > > energy, the brain needs glucose. There are people
    > who
    > > think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
    > > there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the NIH
    > > who is trying to prove this,
    that
    > we
    > > as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
    > > agricultural revolution
    > has
    > > locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that the
    > > brain works
    more
    > > efficiently on ketones.
    > >
    > > Here's Veech's position:
    > >
    >
    http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/intramural/web_lmbb/LMBB%20PDF_Fol-
    der/VeechIUBMBLif
    > > e2001_241.pdf
    > >
    > > Ketosis may cause heart problems://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
    > > diet.htm
    > >
    > > And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
    > > http://www.thedietchannel.com/weight.htm#Fad%20Diets
    > >
    > > >I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular
    > > >weight training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad
    one
    > > > cause of low Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from
    > > > anyone, or
    especially
    > > > people who are quite sports oreintated, please post
    > > > feedback. I'm a
    > > healthy
    > > > 24 year old with no family history of heart problems
    > > > under 55.
    > >
    > > -So why fix it if it ain't broke?
    > >
    >
    > You don't know what you're talking about. Go away. You're
    > a danger.
    >
    > M.
    >
    >
    Cheers Mark, good to see someone has some knowledge out
    there. John S
     
  8. Pizza Girl

    Pizza Girl Guest

    He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.

    Big deal so you had a slip of the tongue.

    "John S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > "Mark D." <[email protected]> wrote in
    > message news:[email protected]
    > gui.server.ntli.net...
    > > "John Claude" <[email protected]*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
    > > message news:[email protected]...
    > > > John S <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if there
    > > > > are any knowledgable people out
    > > there
    > > > > that can explain the above subject to me in more
    > > > > detail. I would
    like
    > to
    > > > try
    > > > > it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
    > > > > information out
    there
    > > to
    > > > > back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.
    > > >
    > > > So if one or two or even twenty people here say, hey,
    > > > it works for me, you'll go ahead and starve your body
    > > > of carbohydrates until it burns protein?
    > >
    > > Burns *protein*?
    > >
    > > You are full of shit, sonny.
    > >
    > > Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut into
    > > two- and four-carbon fragments called ketones or ketone
    > > bodies.
    > >
    > > Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.
    > >
    > > Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're talking
    > > about: until
    that
    > > time, you're a danger.
    > >
    > > > Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.
    > >
    > > No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what
    > > you're talking
    about.
    > Go
    > > away.
    > >
    > > > Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote
    > > > ("my grandmother smoked
    until
    > > she
    > > > was 90") rather than research across a population. I
    > > > did some
    research
    > on
    > > > ketosis on the net a while back and found a lot of
    > > > info out there. It
    > > does
    > > > seem to take away a lot of weight for people with
    > > > serious obesity. I
    > > think
    > > > there's too much potential for damage.
    > >
    > > Who gives a shit what you think? You've already proved
    > > that you don't
    know
    > > what you're talking about. Go away.
    > >
    > > > While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
    > > > energy, the brain needs glucose. There are
    people
    > > who
    > > > think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
    > > > there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the NIH
    > > > who is trying to prove this,
    > that
    > > we
    > > > as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
    > > > agricultural
    revolution
    > > has
    > > > locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that
    > > > the brain works
    > more
    > > > efficiently on ketones.
    > > >
    > > > Here's Veech's position:
    > > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/intramural/web_lmbb/LMBB%20PDF_Fol-
    der/VeechIUBMBLif
    > > > e2001_241.pdf
    > > >
    > > > Ketosis may cause heart problems:www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
    > > > diet.htm
    > > >
    > > > And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
    > > > http://www.thedietchannel.com/weight.htm#Fad%20Diets
    > > >
    > > > >I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular
    > > > >weight training. Is this lifestyle choice a bad
    > one
    > > > > cause of low Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from
    > > > > anyone, or
    > especially
    > > > > people who are quite sports oreintated, please post
    > > > > feedback. I'm a
    > > > healthy
    > > > > 24 year old with no family history of heart problems
    > > > > under 55.
    > > >
    > > > -So why fix it if it ain't broke?
    > > >
    > >
    > > You don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
    > > You're a danger.
    > >
    > > M.
    > >
    > >
    > Cheers Mark, good to see someone has some knowledge out
    > there. John S
     
  9. Mark D.

    Mark D. Guest

    "Pizza Girl" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    > He is a troll of the lousiest order.

    Sure: that's why *I'm* posting corrective factual
    information and *you're* posting half-understood hearsay
    bullshit and aggressive, self-deluding fantasy.

    Take your medication, baby.

    M.

    > Ignore the flame.
    >
    > Big deal so you had a slip of the tongue.
    >
    >
    > "John S" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > >
    > > "Mark D." <Mark.D_is[email protected]> wrote in
    > > message news:[email protected]
    > > gui.server.ntli.net...
    > > > "John Claude" <[email protected]*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in
    > > > message news:[email protected]...
    > > > > John S <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > > > Hello Everyone, I was just curious to know if
    > > > > > there are any knowledgable people
    out
    > > > there
    > > > > > that can explain the above subject to me in more
    > > > > > detail. I would
    > like
    > > to
    > > > > try
    > > > > > it, but am sceptical there isn't enough research
    > > > > > information out
    > there
    > > > to
    > > > > > back up trying to go into a state of ketosis.
    > > > >
    > > > > So if one or two or even twenty people here say,
    > > > > hey, it works for
    me,
    > > > > you'll go ahead and starve your body of
    > > > > carbohydrates until it burns protein?
    > > >
    > > > Burns *protein*?
    > > >
    > > > You are full of shit, sonny.
    > > >
    > > > Ketones are fat fragments: free fatty acids are cut
    > > > into two- and four-carbon fragments called ketones or
    > > > ketone bodies.
    > > >
    > > > Ketosis is nothing to do with 'burning protein'.
    > > >
    > > > Keep away from Usenet until you know what you're
    > > > talking about: until
    > that
    > > > time, you're a danger.
    > > >
    > > > > Not trying to flame you, just checking your logic.
    > > >
    > > > No: you aren't able to, because you don't know what
    > > > you're talking
    > about.
    > > Go
    > > > away.
    > > >
    > > > > Something about us humans seems to trust an anecdote
    > > > > ("my grandmother smoked
    > until
    > > > she
    > > > > was 90") rather than research across a population. I
    > > > > did some
    > research
    > > on
    > > > > ketosis on the net a while back and found a lot of
    > > > > info out there.
    It
    > > > does
    > > > > seem to take away a lot of weight for people with
    > > > > serious obesity.
    I
    > > > think
    > > > > there's too much potential for damage.
    > > >
    > > > Who gives a shit what you think? You've already proved
    > > > that you don't
    > know
    > > > what you're talking about. Go away.
    > > >
    > > > > While the rest of the body can switch to ketosis for
    > > > > energy, the brain needs glucose. There are
    > people
    > > > who
    > > > > think that ketosis is actually a natural state, and
    > > > > there's even a scientist, Richard L. Veech, at the
    > > > > NIH who is trying to prove this,
    > > that
    > > > we
    > > > > as prehistoric humans regularly starved, and the
    > > > > agricultural
    > revolution
    > > > has
    > > > > locked us in an "unnatural" state. He believes that
    > > > > the brain works
    > > more
    > > > > efficiently on ketones.
    > > > >
    > > > > Here's Veech's position:
    > > > >
    > > >
    > >
    >
    http://www.niaaa.nih.gov/intramural/web_lmbb/LMBB%20PDF_Fol-
    der/VeechIUBMBLif
    > > > > e2001_241.pdf
    > > > >
    > > > > Ketosis may cause heart problems:
    > > > >
    ttp://www.cincinnatichildrens.org/about/news/release/2000/7-
    diet.htm
    > > > >
    > > > > And here's a big page o' links that argue against:
    > > > > http://www.thedietchannel.com/weight.htm#Fad%20Diets
    > > > >
    > > > > >I exercise quite regulary and am a undergo regular
    > > > > >weight training. Is this lifestyle choice a
    bad
    > > one
    > > > > > cause of low Carbohydrate levels? Any advice from
    > > > > > anyone, or
    > > especially
    > > > > > people who are quite sports oreintated, please
    > > > > > post feedback. I'm
    a
    > > > > healthy
    > > > > > 24 year old with no family history of heart
    > > > > > problems under 55.
    > > > >
    > > > > -So why fix it if it ain't broke?
    > > > >
    > > >
    > > > You don't know what you're talking about. Go away.
    > > > You're a danger.
    > > >
    > > > M.
    > > >
    > > >
    > > Cheers Mark, good to see someone has some knowledge out
    > > there. John S
    > >
    >
     
  10. John Claude

    John Claude Guest

    Pizza Girl <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.

    I was beginning to wonder if this was a default attitude on
    this NG for dealing with someone who says something
    incorrect. I just associated, as I was writing the sentence,
    ketosis with starvation and protein catabolism, as the
    medical establishment has for years. But I can change,
    really I can.

    I don't claim to be an authority, but let's listen to
    someone who may be:
    http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/242/77461

    "Maria C. Linder is on the faculty at California State
    University Fullerton, California in the Department of
    Chemistry and Biochemistry. All quotes are from her
    textbook; "Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism: with
    clinical applications", Maria C. Linder. pages 87-109.
    Chapter Eight: Nutrition and Metabolism of Protein."

    "Early in fasting glycogen reserves are depleted, and
    protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major source of
    carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
    substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous
    system on a daily basis. There is also an initiation of
    ketone body production by the liver to provide a more water
    soluble form of fat-derived fuel."

    "DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE
    PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."

    ""The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for protein-
    dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its production of
    ketones, a fuel ALTERNATIVE to glucose for MOST CELLS.

    Circulating ketones reach maximum levels after about ten
    days of fasting and now substitute for much of the glucose
    requirement of the central nervous system. This drastically
    reduces the need for catabolism of muscle protein."

    "With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen
    excretion also declines. And there is a shift from the
    excretion of urea to a predominance of ammonia loss. This
    shift toward ammonia versus urea parallels the increased
    production and excretion of keto acids, and serves to
    MAINTAIN ACID / BASE BALANCE."

    "The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of
    carbons that can be used for glucose production when needed.
    However the body prevents excessive losses of muscle protein
    over long periods of fasting by adapting the central nervous
    system to utilization of ketone bodies for fuel."

    What I take from this is that the body may simultaneously
    turn to muscle protein and dietary protein while it is
    adjusting to ketosis. Once ketosis is in full swing, then
    the need for protein catabolism decreases. Is it less than
    when the body was a glucose machine (since there is always a
    baseline of protein catabolisis going on at any time- right
    Mark? Some amino acids are known as ketogenic*, right Mark?
    )? I don't know. Does anyone have the answer for that? It
    could be different for each person. Is this a good idea for
    bodybuilders? I don't know. I think maybe- but then I'm not
    sure, because I haven't taken the time to know everything-
    that some bodybuilders, some athletes, some of the greatest
    sports performers ever have been able to do what they do
    without ketosis. Maybe our good troll knows, and maybe he'd
    like to teach us something, or would he rather spew more
    profanity and poison about the group?

    *"Carbon skeletons of ketogenic amino acids can be
    catabolized for energy in Krebs Cycle, or converted to
    ketone bodies or fatty acids." http://216.239.57.104/search-
    ?q=cache:mY7HOp5_icIJ:www.rpi.edu/dept/bcbp/molb iochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/23-
    aacarb.ppt+ketogenic+amino+acids&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

    I will admit my error on the brain's use of glucose: it will
    use ketones, and from what I've read, the brain and many
    other organs will prefer to use ketones for fuel when they
    are available. This may support the argument that ketosis is
    "normal," but maybe it is just another way to control the
    level of ketones in the body - i.e. "get rid of these
    first." I don't know. Just thought I'd throw it out there
    for discussion. Am I allowed to discuss things here, with
    the possibility of making an error, or do I have to know a
    lot of things and insult people that don't?

    The gist of my original post was only this: yes, be
    skeptical. Yeah, I'm a danger.

    JC
     
  11. John S

    John S Guest

    "John Claude" <[email protected]*SPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Pizza Girl <[email protected]> wrote in message news:c59a-
    > [email protected]
    > > He is a troll of the lousiest order. Ignore the flame.
    >
    > I was beginning to wonder if this was a default attitude
    > on this NG for dealing with someone who says something
    > incorrect. I just associated, as
    I
    > was writing the sentence, ketosis with starvation and
    > protein catabolism, as the medical establishment has for
    > years. But I can change, really I
    can.
    >
    > I don't claim to be an authority, but let's listen to
    > someone who may be:
    > http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/242/77461
    >
    > "Maria C. Linder is on the faculty at California State
    > University Fullerton, California in the Department of
    > Chemistry and Biochemistry. All quotes are from her
    > textbook; "Nutritional Biochemistry and Metabolism:
    with
    > clinical applications", Maria C. Linder. pages 87-109.
    > Chapter Eight: Nutrition and Metabolism of Protein."
    >
    > "Early in fasting glycogen reserves are depleted, and
    > protein (mainly from muscle) becomes the major source of
    > carbon for glucose production. Glucose is required in
    > substantial amounts by blood cells and the central nervous
    > system on a daily basis. There is also an initiation of
    > ketone body production by the liver to provide a more
    > water soluble form of
    fat-derived
    > fuel."
    >
    > "DIETARY PROTEIN LARGELY OR FULLY SUBSTITUTES FOR MUSCLE
    > PROTEIN IN GLUCONEOGENESIS."
    >
    > ""The body adapts to starvation and reduces the need for
    > protein-dependent gluconeogenesis by boosting its
    > production of ketones, a fuel ALTERNATIVE
    to
    > glucose for MOST CELLS.
    >
    > Circulating ketones reach maximum levels after about ten
    > days of fasting
    and
    > now substitute for much of the glucose requirement of the
    > central nervous system. This drastically reduces the need
    > for catabolism of muscle
    protein."
    >
    > "With reduced protein catabolism, urinary nitrogen
    > excretion also
    declines.
    > And there is a shift from the excretion of urea to a
    > predominance of
    ammonia
    > loss. This shift toward ammonia versus urea parallels the
    > increased production and excretion of keto acids, and
    > serves to MAINTAIN ACID / BASE BALANCE."
    >
    > "The overall point is that muscle is a valuable reserve of
    > carbons that
    can
    > be used for glucose production when needed. However the
    > body prevents excessive losses of muscle protein over long
    > periods of fasting by
    adapting
    > the central nervous system to utilization of ketone bodies
    > for fuel."
    >
    > What I take from this is that the body may simultaneously
    > turn to muscle protein and dietary protein while it is
    > adjusting to ketosis. Once
    ketosis
    > is in full swing, then the need for protein catabolism
    > decreases. Is it less than when the body was a glucose
    > machine (since there is always a baseline of protein
    > catabolisis going on at any time- right Mark? Some amino
    > acids are known as ketogenic*, right Mark? )? I don't
    > know. Does anyone have the answer for that? It could be
    > different for each person.
    Is
    > this a good idea for bodybuilders? I don't know. I think
    > maybe- but
    then
    > I'm not sure, because I haven't taken the time to know
    > everything- that
    some
    > bodybuilders, some athletes, some of the greatest sports
    > performers ever have been able to do what they do without
    > ketosis. Maybe our good troll knows, and maybe he'd like
    > to teach us something, or would he rather spew more
    > profanity and poison about the group?
    >
    > *"Carbon skeletons of ketogenic amino acids can be
    > catabolized for energy
    in
    > Krebs Cycle, or converted to ketone bodies or fatty
    > acids."
    >
    http://216.239.57.104/search?q=cache:mY7HOp5_icIJ:www.rpi.e-
    du/dept/bcbp/molb
    > iochem/MBWeb/mb2/part1/23-
    > aacarb.ppt+ketogenic+amino+acids&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
    >
    > I will admit my error on the brain's use of glucose: it
    > will use ketones, and from what I've read, the brain and
    > many other organs will prefer to
    use
    > ketones for fuel when they are available. This may
    > support the argument that ketosis is "normal," but maybe
    > it is just another way to control the level of ketones
    > in the body - i.e. "get rid of these first." I don't
    > know. Just thought I'd throw it out there for
    > discussion. Am I allowed
    to
    > discuss things here, with the possibility of making an
    > error, or do I have to know a lot of things and insult
    > people that don't?
    >
    > The gist of my original post was only this: yes, be
    > skeptical. Yeah, I'm
    a
    > danger.
    >
    > JC
    >
    >
    >
    Thanks JC, You did well to correct some parts of your
    earlier mistake. Could it be the efficiency of the body to
    utilise ketones the result of why some people tend to stay
    leaner then others (once genetics and muscle mass is ruled
    out). Just a topic of discussion. John S
     
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