Kevlar bike tires not bullet proof

[Jorg Lueke]

After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
Bontragers.

 

[BobT]

"Jorg Lueke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.
>
I replaced my Specialized Armadillo's after literally hundreds of goat heads
stuck in them on a 1 1/2 mile dirt path ride. My friend and I fixed 5 flats
in 30 minutes and ended up walking our bikes back to the truck.

After that experience, I searched for the most puncture resistance tires I
could find for my commuter/touring bike. No tire is absolutely puncture/cut
proof but I think the Schwalbe Marathon Plus comes close. I have been using
Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires and Schwalbe tubes filled with Specialized
Airlock goo for about a year and I have not had a flat yet. They are
designed to be tough and puncture resistant, not for winning races. They
are very heavy but I guessed that counting grams is not your primary concern
if you are buying 28 mm Specialized Armadillo tires.

BobT

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> writes:
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.

Aw, heck -- I was hoping you were giving an account
about experimentally shooting your kevlar tires

So anyway, I guess they're not sharp-pointy-stuffproof.

Maybe kevlar bulletproof vests aren't crossbow-boltproof,
nor for that matter, harpoonproof or pikeproof.

To be more serious, I wonder if silk might be a more
suitable material than kevlar for rendering bicycle
tires more puncture resistant.

To paraphrase Frank Zappa: using "bulletproof" material
to allay cuts from sharp objects is like dancing about
architecture.

And I'm nevertheless left wondering how well kevlar tires
stand up to .45 military hardball.


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me -- nothing is truly foolproof.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 7:39 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.

Specialized has a tire called Paris-Roibuiex (sp, I know!) that on its
package claims to be the "most puncture resistant tire" there is.
Based on how freakin' thick the tread on that thing was, I wouldn't be
surprised if it was!

 

[Hank Wirtz]

On Sep 15, 4:39 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.

For a long time, I was only buying kevlar-belted tires for fear of
flats. But once I started riding over 1000 miles a year, I started
getting flats anyway. So I quit caring whether a tire was kevlar
belted or not,

By my reckoning, every flat I've ever had, bar one, was with a kevlar-
belted tire, The non-kevlar one was a Specialized Fat Boy. The Kevlar
ones were Pasela Tourguards (In fairness to those, I've probably put
more miles on the three or four sets I've gone through than anything
else), Conti GP4Season, Specialized TriSport Flak Jackets, and some
Vittoria sewup and can't remember the model name of at the moment.

I'm jinxing it by posting this, but I haven't had a flat in probably
2500 miles (back in March, maybe?), riding a mixture of Paselas (non-
TG), Michelin Lithions, IRC Redstorms, Clement Futura sewups, and some
really old Wolber clinchers.

Not saying kevlar belts contributed to my flats, but they certainly
didn't stop them. Risk compensation. maybe? Without kevlar belts, I'm
more aware of what I'm riding over? I don't know.

 

[Just A User]

Jorg Lueke wrote:
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.
>

I have ridden literally thousands of miles on kevlar belted tires and
can't remember ever having a puncture flat.

 

[smn]

"Jorg Lueke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.



Try them with tuffys in the tire. Worked for me. I had panaracer kevlar
belted and I know what you mean. Now I have no flats. Adds a little weight
and the tire feels a tiny bit funny but the ride is just as fun..

 

[smn]

To paraphrase Frank Zappa: using "bulletproof" material
to allay cuts from sharp objects is like dancing about
architecture.
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

What does that mean if it is not a typo?

 

[Jorg Lueke]

On Sep 16, 3:28 pm, "smn" <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Jorg Lueke" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> news:[email protected]...
>
> > After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> > miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> > LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> > had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> > coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> > Bontragers.
>
> Try them with tuffys in the tire. Worked for me. I had panaracer kevlar
> belted and I know what you mean. Now I have no flats. Adds a little weight
> and the tire feels a tiny bit funny but the ride is just as fun..

I kind of wonder if it makes much different all in all for where I
ride. What struck me kind of funny is the way the sales people pitch
these kevlar tires. Oohhh Kevlar, must be good! Even once cyclist
who stopped by when I was changing the flat said "You have an
armadillo and you STILL got a flat". The marketing must be decent

For tubes I do like the slime tubes, they help get you home so you
don't have to do the whole work of changing a flat on the road.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <z6bHi.186971$rX4.47366@pd7urf2no>,
"smn" <[email protected]> writes:
> To paraphrase Frank Zappa: using "bulletproof" material
> to allay cuts from sharp objects is like dancing about
> architecture.
> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>
> What does that mean if it is not a typo?

The original quote was something like: "Writing about
music is like dancing about architecture."

It describes using an inappropriate means to an end.

I guess there's a tendency to believe that since
kevlar is used to make bulletproof vests, it can
can also resist punctures from jagged, pointy,
broken glass. Kevlar is just a woven fabric.
Bullets can't penetrate between the fibres, but
sharp stuff like broken glass, can.

Silk can also be a very tough woven fabric,
and I believe silk can be woven more tightly
than kevlar. And silk is lighter. It's not
as bulletproof as kevlar, but how often do
bicycle tires have to stop bullets?


cheers,
Tom

--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[smn]

"Tom Keats" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <z6bHi.186971$rX4.47366@pd7urf2no>,
> "smn" <[email protected]> writes:
>> To paraphrase Frank Zappa: using "bulletproof" material
>> to allay cuts from sharp objects is like dancing about
>> architecture.
>> <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
>>
>> What does that mean if it is not a typo?
>
> The original quote was something like: "Writing about
> music is like dancing about architecture."
>
> It describes using an inappropriate means to an end.
>
> I guess there's a tendency to believe that since
> kevlar is used to make bulletproof vests, it can
> can also resist punctures from jagged, pointy,
> broken glass. Kevlar is just a woven fabric.
> Bullets can't penetrate between the fibres, but
> sharp stuff like broken glass, can.
>
> Silk can also be a very tough woven fabric,
> and I believe silk can be woven more tightly
> than kevlar. And silk is lighter. It's not
> as bulletproof as kevlar, but how often do
> bicycle tires have to stop bullets?
>
>
> cheers,
> Tom
>
> --
> Nothing is safe from me.
> I'm really at:
> tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

Thanks,, you never know what the future holds. Funny I did not get that the
first time. The subject though was a good joke I thought and self
explanatory too.

 

[smn]

For tubes I do like the slime tubes, they help get you home so you
don't have to do the whole work of changing a flat on the road.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>><<<<<<<<<<<<<

I carry a spare for that since goo can mess up your valve and good buy bye
tire.

 

[Andrew Price]

On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 19:09:34 -0500, "BobT"
<[email protected]> wrote:

[---]

>No tire is absolutely puncture/cut
>proof but I think the Schwalbe Marathon Plus comes close.

I'd agree with that.

>I have been using
>Schwalbe Marathon Plus tires and Schwalbe tubes filled with Specialized
>Airlock goo for about a year and I have not had a flat yet. They are
>designed to be tough and puncture resistant, not for winning races. They
>are very heavy

That's the trade-off - they are indeed extremely heavy - almost 1kg
for a 700x40. I had to put one on a rear wheel last August, to
replace a tyre which had become irreparably damaged. I was in
Arnstadt that day, and no-one there had "normal" Marathons, only the
"Plus". I took it off when I got home, though.

>but I guessed that counting grams is not your primary concern
>if you are buying 28 mm Specialized Armadillo tires.

In that case, they're an excellent recommendation. In my case, road
only cycling, I prefer to fit normal Marathons and fix the punctures
when they happen.

 

[landotter]

On Sep 16, 5:33 am, Just A User <[email protected]> wrote:
> Jorg Lueke wrote:
> > After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> > miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> > LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> > had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> > coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> > Bontragers.
>
> I have ridden literally thousands of miles on kevlar belted tires and
> can't remember ever having a puncture flat.

Me either. I've run three different brands (IRC, Cheng Shin, Vittoria)
on three bikes, for thousands of miles and only one pinch flat on
those tires. I doubt it's just dumb luck, as when I used regular tires
the punctures returned--especially with the WTBs [shakes fist].

 

[DennisTheBald]

I've been quite happy with the Schwalabe Marathon, the regular ones
not the plus... I did have a puncture once, but it was a big staple
bent funny and I really should have seen it, I really should have been
more careful riding around a construction site.

I've been getting pretty good treadwear outta the Schwalabes too,
about 5000 on the front and nearly twice that on the back (did I
mention the front is 16" and the back 26"?-). I used to ride Advocet
Cross Kevlar and I was pretty happy with them. I haven't been so
happy with Continental Super Sports and other people rave about them.

 

[Tom Keats]

In article <[email protected]>,
DennisTheBald <[email protected]> writes:
> I've been quite happy with the Schwalabe Marathon, the regular ones
> not the plus... I did have a puncture once, but it was a big staple
> bent funny and I really should have seen it, I really should have been
> more careful riding around a construction site.

Double "heh", plus a snicker from a guy who's had to ride
to & from construction sites.
P
> I've been getting pretty good treadwear outta the Schwalabes too,
> about 5000 on the front and nearly twice that on the back (did I
> mention the front is 16" and the back 26"?-). I used to ride Advocet
> Cross Kevlar and I was pretty happy with them. I haven't been so
> happy with Continental Super Sports and other people rave about them.

Those Cheng Shins & a pair of open eyes, 'n yer
off 'n runnin'.

Schwallabees, eh? ;-) I can countenance that.

Schwallabees -- I like that. Good ol' bulletproof kevlar,


cheers,
Tom
--
Nothing is safe from me.
I'm really at:
tkeats curlicue vcn dot bc dot ca

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 15, 6:39 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
> After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> Bontragers.

I agree with the others, regarding Schwalbe Marathon Plus. I don't
think there is a need for anything like goo or tire liners with the SM
Plus. They are heavy, but I am a city commuter, not a racer. Lots of
glass and all manner of sharp road debris on my route.

The 'Schwalbe Marathon' (NOT Plus) is not as puncture-resistant.
Schwalbe must agree, otherwise there would be no need for the Plus
model.

Jay

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 18, 5:35 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Sep 15, 6:39 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> > miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> > LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> > had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> > coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> > Bontragers.
>
> I agree with the others, regarding Schwalbe Marathon Plus. I don't
> think there is a need for anything like goo or tire liners with the SM
> Plus. They are heavy, but I am a city commuter, not a racer. Lots of
> glass and all manner of sharp road debris on my route.
>
> The 'Schwalbe Marathon' (NOT Plus) is not as puncture-resistant.
> Schwalbe must agree, otherwise there would be no need for the Plus
> model.
>
> Jay

The thing about the Marathon Pluses is that they gain their puncture
resistance through a thick liner--almost like a solid tire--so the
rolling resistance will be abysmal. Speaking from experience, I had a
set of Contis with Kevlar belts that got maybe four flats within their
lifetime. Not sure the model, (I just threw the last one out) but
they are very similar to the Marathons (which are their replacement--
the store I was shopping at didn't sell Contis and I had credit from
them) but with less tread.

 

[[email protected]]

On Sep 20, 11:26 am, [email protected] wrote:
> On Sep 18, 5:35 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Sep 15, 6:39 pm, Jorg Lueke <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > After my stock Bontrager select tires started to wear out after 2000
> > > miles I got some Specialized Armadillos mainly because that's what the
> > > LBS near me had in a 28. Within two two weeks a single piece of glass
> > > had penetrated the tire and had rendered it useless. It's probably
> > > coincidence but I'm still going to look for soe of those stock
> > > Bontragers.
>
> > I agree with the others, regarding Schwalbe Marathon Plus. I don't
> > think there is a need for anything like goo or tire liners with the SM
> > Plus. They are heavy, but I am a city commuter, not a racer. Lots of
> > glass and all manner of sharp road debris on my route.
>
> > The 'Schwalbe Marathon' (NOT Plus) is not as puncture-resistant.
> > Schwalbe must agree, otherwise there would be no need for the Plus
> > model.
>
> > Jay
>
> The thing about the Marathon Pluses is that they gain their puncture
> resistance through a thick liner--almost like a solid tire--so the
> rolling resistance will be abysmal. Speaking from experience, I had a
> set of Contis with Kevlar belts that got maybe four flats within their
> lifetime. Not sure the model, (I just threw the last one out) but
> they are very similar to the Marathons (which are their replacement--
> the store I was shopping at didn't sell Contis and I had credit from
> them) but with less tread.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes, that is why I mentioned that I am a commuter, not a racer. I use
a SM+ on the back, and only a SM (not Plus) on the front. This setup
gets me to and from work without a surprise flat, which is more
important to me than rolling resistance or tire weight. I also run
both tires at somewhat higher PSI than the max rated PSI, and I check
the pressure at least twice a week.

Jay

 

[Dane Buson]

[email protected] wrote:
> On Sep 18, 5:35 am, "[email protected]" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> I agree with the others, regarding Schwalbe Marathon Plus. I don't
>> think there is a need for anything like goo or tire liners with the SM
>> Plus. They are heavy, but I am a city commuter, not a racer. Lots of
>> glass and all manner of sharp road debris on my route.
>>
> The thing about the Marathon Pluses is that they gain their puncture
> resistance through a thick liner--almost like a solid tire--so the
> rolling resistance will be abysmal.

Actually, no the rolling resistance is still pretty reasonable. The
reason being that what ends up flexing is the India rubber layer and not
the sidewalls. I'm not going to tell you you'll win races on them or
anything, but I really don't notice any additional drag from them
myself.

> Speaking from experience, I had a set of Contis with Kevlar belts that got
> maybe four flats within their lifetime. Not sure the model, (I just threw
> the last one out) but they are very similar to the Marathons (which are
> their replacement-- the store I was shopping at didn't sell Contis and I had
> credit from them) but with less tread.

The Conti TT 2K are what I use to ride before the M+ tires. They are
a decent tire, but they are not even in the same league of puncture
resistance as the M+ tires.

--
Dane Buson - [email protected]
Love makes the world go 'round, with a little help from intrinsic angular
momentum.