Kevlar tires

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Trying, Jun 28, 2003.

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  1. Trying

    Trying Guest

    I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
    Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it!
    I know becasue the galss was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    tires than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as fast
    as possible.

    Tom
     
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  2. Trying wrote:
    > I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
    > Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
    > it! I know becasue the galss was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    > tires than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as
    > fast as possible.

    I've had pretty good luck with the Performance kevlars. The belt is fairly thick though so it's a
    little heavier and has more rolling resistance than most racing tires. I tried a Vittoria racing
    tire with the high tpi kevlar casing but only because I got it for $14 in a closeout bin. I had a
    few flats right through that thin belt in short order. It didn't help at all. It's currently my
    front tire since I rarely flat the front regardless of what tire I use.

    Even with the Performance kevlars I would get some flats but most of them were sidewall cuts
    (unprotected by the belt) or the occasional pothole induced snake bite. I never had glass or a
    significant sized piece of metal go through the belt. I did have one almost microscopic metal
    splinter work its way through the weave in the belt once but it was only big enough to cause a slow
    leak. It probably wouldn't have even done that if I'd had a slime tube then (as I do now).

    --Bill Davidson
     
  3. Jean

    Jean Guest

    "Trying" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    | I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
    | Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
    | it! I know becasue the
    galss
    | was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    tires
    | than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as fast as
    | possible.
    |
    | Tom
    |
    |

    The Ricorso tires do not have a kevlar belt. Vredestein tires with the "puncture resistance system"
    have a layer of hard rubber vulcanized between the tread and the casing.

    Jean
     
  4. Arous

    Arous Guest

    Hi Tom,

    They haven't completely eliminated flats, damn close though, but I switched to and swear by
    Contentials...Since I spent the money for them I've had maybe two flats in the past year...I ride
    about 150 (245km) to 200 (325km) miles a week and I too got fed up with flats...I hated spending the
    money at first but now I'm glad I did!

    I'm not a racer but I like to get where I'm going at a 'brisk' pace...and not wasting time on the
    side of the road fixing flats!

    Cordially, Arous

    "Trying" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
    > Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
    > it! I know becasue the
    galss
    > was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    tires
    > than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing, but I want to ride as fast as
    > possible.
    >
    > Tom
     
  5. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:04:46 GMT, "Trying" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Are there BETTER Kevlar tires than others? If so which ones? I ride 40 to 100 a week, no racing,
    > but I want to ride as fast as possible.

    Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is
    to learn how to change out a flat w/o hassle. It takes practice. With time you can get the tire
    off and on
    w/o tools. A spare tube and a CO2 cartridge and you are on your way in about 5 min. Why suffer with
    heavy tires that don't roll well all the time when you only need to changeout a puncture rarely.
     
  6. Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is
    > to learn how to change out a flat w/o hassle. It takes practice. With time you can get the tire
    > off and on
    > w/o tools.

    The differences in rolling resistance are likely to marginal, if the tyres are otherwise
    equivalent. If the extra puncture resistance really means that you flat less often, and thus spend
    less time stanionary changing or patching a tube, your average speed is likely to be higher with
    the "slower" tyre.

    -as
     
  7. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    >Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is to
    >learn how to change out a flat w/o

    What's the opinion about those inserts that claim to reduce punctures? They look like plastic,
    placed between the tire and tube.

    Doug
     
  8. On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:04:46 +0000, Trying wrote:

    > I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
    > Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of
    > it! I know becasue the galss was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    > tires than others? If so which ones?

    OK, by what mechanism would a layer of any cloth stop a pointed piece of glass from getting through?
    If you manage that , we can design knife-proof shirts with it. Always useful for city riding.

    Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects, since it simply separates the weave of
    the cloth.

    Avoid pointy objects.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. _`\(,_ | That is easy. All
    you have to do is tell them they are being (_)/ (_) | attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for
    lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any <country. --
    Hermann Goering
     
  9. On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:39:20 +0000, Antti Salonen wrote:

    > The differences in rolling resistance are likely to marginal, if the tyres are otherwise
    > equivalent.

    That is not so clear. The kevlar will add to the energy expended in flexing the casing. I don't have
    numbers available -- but it would be interesting to have them (anyone? Same basic tire in a
    kevlar/non kevlar model, like the Avocets.

    If the extra puncture resistance really
    > means that you flat less often, and thus spend less time stanionary changing or patching a tube,
    > your average speed is likely to be higher with the "slower" tyre.

    But this presumes that the kevlar belt has more than adverstising effectiveness, something that is
    not evident. I have used both types, and have not noticed a difference in the frequency of flats.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | When you are up to your ass in alligators, it's hard to remember _`\(,_ | that your initial
    objective was to drain the swamp. -- LBJ (_)/ (_) |
     
  10. Review Boy

    Review Boy Guest

    While kevlar belts are designed to prevent penetration of most objects, David has pointed out their
    Achilles Tendon, which is that very slender objects can penetrate the belt's weave.

    Strips such as Mr. Tuffy have complementary characteristics, though.

    In over 10 years, I have only ever gotten one flat when combining kevlar-belted tires with Mr.
    Tuffy, and that was on the sidewall.

    It's perfectly reasonable to ride without belts or flat-prevention strips and benefit from the
    lesser rolling resistance (is any quantative data on the amount of the handicap due to kevlar belts,
    by the way?). It's also perfectly reasonable for those of us who don't want to deal with flat to
    take on a bit greater rolling resistance. Neither group is mentally deficient or uneducated.

    Viva la difference!

    Ride on.

    "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > < snip > Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects,
    since it
    > simply separates the weave of the cloth.
     
  11. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:04:46 +0000, Trying wrote:
    > > I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso
    > > tires. Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of
    glass
    > > through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it! I know becasue the
    galss
    > > was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    tires
    > > than others? If so which ones?

    "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > OK, by what mechanism would a layer of any cloth stop a pointed piece of glass from getting
    > through? If you manage that , we can design knife-proof shirts with it. Always useful for
    > city riding.
    >
    > Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects, since it simply separates the weave
    > of the cloth. Avoid pointy objects.

    In my bicycle service class, I ask students to puncture a section of kelvar(aramid) lined tire. When
    a section of tire is laid flat on wood, a very aggressive stab with a #1 Phillips screwdriver won't
    penetrate the liner even with extreme effort. An ordinary sewing needle passes right through as
    easily as an unlined casing. If you have such a tire, try that some time ( a needle, not a
    screwdriver. A sewing needle won't harm your casing at all but a screwdriver may rend the fabric)

    --
    Andrew Muzi www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April, 1971
     
  12. Jay Beattie

    Jay Beattie Guest

    "A Muzi" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > > On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 07:04:46 +0000, Trying wrote:
    > > > I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I
    bought
    > > > Vredestein Ricorso tires. Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of
    > glass
    > > > through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it! I know becasue the
    > galss
    > > > was still lodged in the ininside of the tire. Are there BETTER Kevlar
    > tires
    > > > than others? If so which ones?
    >
    >
    > "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > OK, by what mechanism would a layer of any cloth stop a pointed piece of glass from getting
    > > through? If you manage that , we can design knife-proof shirts with it. Always useful for city
    > > riding.
    > >
    > > Kevlar in a tread is a cloth. It cannot stop pointy objects, since it simply separates the weave
    > > of the cloth. Avoid pointy objects.
    >
    > In my bicycle service class, I ask students to puncture a section of kelvar(aramid) lined tire.
    > When a section of tire is laid flat on wood, a very aggressive stab with a #1 Phillips screwdriver
    > won't penetrate the liner even with extreme effort. An ordinary sewing needle passes right through
    > as easily as an unlined casing. If you have such a tire, try that some time ( a needle, not a
    > screwdriver. A sewing needle won't harm your casing at all but a screwdriver may rend the fabric)

    The problem is that the usual puncture-causing object is more like a needle (or glass shard) than a
    screw driver. In fact (and here is some more lore), I think I get more flats on kevlar belted tires
    because it is harder to find and remove glass shards. -- Jay Beattie.
     
  13. Frank Miles

    Frank Miles Guest

    In article <5ohsfvop2iefjlcrc7[email protected]>,

    >>Tires with Kevlar belts do not roll as well as those w/o. The best solution for your dilema is to
    >>learn how to change out a flat w/o
    >
    >What's the opinion about those inserts that claim to reduce punctures? They look like plastic,
    >placed between the tire and tube.

    You mean like the Mr. Tuffy liners? I use them with my commuter bike and IMHO they seem to
    substantially reduce flats. Some people have said that the liner itself can cause a leak where the
    liner overlaps itself. I haven't had that problem after years of use.

    The ride "feel" is definitely poorer with the liners, but (especially for commuting in the dark,
    with wet/cold weather) it's well worth it to reduce the number of flats.

    You wouldn't want to ride competitively with these, but for training they should be fine. Whatever
    minor extra energy they require means you get a bit more training.

    -frank
    --
     
  14. Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote:
    >hassle. It takes practice. With time you can get the tire off and on
    >w/o tools. A spare tube and a CO2 cartridge and you are on your way in about 5 min.

    It takes much longer than that to inflate a tube with a CO2 cartridge; you must wait after it fails
    for someone with an HPX to stop by and mock you before inflating the tube. :)
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  15. Trying <[email protected]> wrote:
    >I hate flats, so my friends told me to get Kevlar belted tires. I bought Vredestein Ricorso tires.
    >Then, IK got a flat from a small piece of glass through the Kevlar belt. Right in the center of it!

    Wet glass will cut anything. You're going to get flats now and again; carry a spare inner tube so
    you don't have to patch tubes on the road (but carry patches so as not to tempt fate).

    I get a flat every 800 miles or so; it takes me 15 minutes to put a spare tube in my rear wheel (all
    told - from the moment I decelerate cursing to the moment I mount up again). A tube or tyre that
    would prevent _all_ punctures would still lose me time overall unless the slowdown due to increased
    rolling resistance was less than half a percentage point - and no "puncture proof" equipment is that
    effective.

    Therefore, I don't worry about it; I ride plain rubber tyres and just deal with it when it happens.
    --
    David Damerell <[email protected]> Distortion Field!
     
  16. Dan Johnson

    Dan Johnson Guest

    I had an old Mr. Tuffy's split longitudinally and cause a flat. Not sure how many it prevented but
    I've been running liners and kevlar belted tires and have had far fewer flats than I used to. These
    were really old so I can't fault the liners.

    Parmer Lane in Austin is just thick with glass esp after Sat nights so it's hard to avoid all of it.
    Always more broken taillights and headlights where cars have pulled out in to traffic after a
    weekend too. I've also picked up the tiny wires from tire belts-they're fun when your finger finds
    them still in the tire when you're checking after a flat. Lots of heavy trucks blowing up tires
    around here too.

    I've liked a pair of conti gatorskins, and have tried specialized armadillos too. I've got vittoria
    courier tires on spare rims (came on a set of wheels), and had the first crash in 20+ years this
    morning. Strange-I've got <100 mi on them. Can't say I like them. I sure hate roadrash!

    I think kevlar and liners have helped me-would be hard to prove why the number of flats went down
    though. I'm willing to give up a little weight and ride quality for fewer flats.

    > You mean like the Mr. Tuffy liners? I use them with my commuter bike and IMHO they seem to
    > substantially reduce flats. Some people have said that the liner itself can cause a leak where the
    > liner overlaps itself. I haven't had that problem after years of use.
     
  17. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On 30 Jun 2003 16:20:03 +0100 (BST), David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote:

    >It takes much longer than that to inflate a tube with a CO2 cartridge; you must wait after it fails
    >for someone with an HPX to stop by and mock you before inflating the tube. :)
    >--

    Well, I admit, I have a #2 HPX on the seat stay too. I use it for the 2nd flat. The new CO2
    inflators work much better than the older ones.
     
  18. N2vx Jim

    N2vx Jim Guest

    Ah, but a flat always happens on hot sunny days when there is no shade and you are all sweaty. They
    also happen when you're in a hurry to get somewhere or when it's raining.

    I use kevlar-belted tires. I may go slower but I'm out there for the exercise. And it's just not fun
    having to stop and fix a flat. I still carry a tube and pump just in case.

    When I have to use non-kevlar belted tires the tire liners help.

    Jim

    On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:47:12 -0400, "David L. Johnson" <[email protected]> wrote:

    >On Sat, 28 Jun 2003 22:39:20 +0000, Antti Salonen wrote:
    >
    >> The differences in rolling resistance are likely to marginal, if the tyres are otherwise
    >> equivalent.
    >
    >That is not so clear. The kevlar will add to the energy expended in flexing the casing. I don't
    >have numbers available -- but it would be interesting to have them (anyone? Same basic tire in a
    >kevlar/non kevlar model, like the Avocets.
    >
    >If the extra puncture resistance really
    >> means that you flat less often, and thus spend less time stanionary changing or patching a tube,
    >> your average speed is likely to be higher with the "slower" tyre.
    >
    >But this presumes that the kevlar belt has more than adverstising effectiveness, something that is
    >not evident. I have used both types, and have not noticed a difference in the frequency of flats.
     
  19. Rick Warner

    Rick Warner Guest

    David Damerell <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<s4p*[email protected]>...

    >
    > Therefore, I don't worry about it; I ride plain rubber tyres and just deal with it when it
    > happens.

    I was riding plain rubber, and got tired of the flats on virtually every ride. Switched to Vittoria
    Rubino Pro's on both road bikes; do not notice any difference in speed or rolling resistance (e.g.,
    any effect is below the perceivable threshhold). Been 19 months and around 10K miles since the last
    flat. Same roads, same riding style (avoid glass and objects when I can see it in advance and steer
    around it, same as before). Sure is nice to go out and NOT have to stop for a repair :)

    - rick warner
     
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