KH24 Creaking

Discussion in 'rec.sport.unicycling' started by ethilien, Jul 27, 2004.

  1. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Today when I've been riding my kh24, I've noticed this weird creaking
    noise that seems to be coming from the axle end of the cranks. I does
    this when I get on or pedal so its constantly creaking on one side then
    the other. Does anyone know whats causing this? It has me a little
    concerned :(

    Are the cranks loose or something?

    Also, how easily does this uni rust? I've gotten it wet a couple times
    lately, and it looks like it has some brown dust around the pedals and
    the hub. Is this rust, or just dust?

    Thanks guys :)


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    signature
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
    Tags:


  2. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Oh, I've also noticed that there's a little bit of play in the cranks
    to. Does that have something to do with the squeaking?


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  3. daino149

    daino149 Guest

    That has everyhting to do with the squeaking. Look here for advice on
    how to fix it.

    http://tinyurl.com/3pqsu


    --
    daino149 - How's it going, Texas?

    Check out my pics: www.unicyclist.com/gallery/daino Updated: 04.07.03
    Kaena
    Bugman - "if you are a little left of them, it would seem like they are
    on the right"
    Sig count: 2

    04.05.23 11214
    04.05.25 11284
    04.05.26 11329
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    daino149's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/933
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  4. c.critch

    c.critch Guest

    i have had the exact problem, first of all, tighten up the cranks, loose
    is what bends them, and go to ur bike shop and get the tire trued. they
    will know what it means, do not tru the wheel at home, it will cost
    roughly 15-20 in store. (canadian eh)


    --
    c.critch - omg, I lost a wheel!!!

    http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuv93
    Check out my Gallery.
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    c.critch's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/5745
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  5. mango

    mango Guest

    c.critch wrote:
    > *i have had the exact problem, first of all, tighten up the cranks,
    > loose is what bends them, and go to ur bike shop and get the tire
    > trued. they will know what it means, do not tru the wheel at home, it
    > will cost roughly 15-20 in store. (canadian eh) *



    Where did you get trueing the wheel from? That doesnt seem to apply to
    his problem.


    --
    mango - unity - as 1 stand together

    http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/albuv16

    "...I speculated that if we all got to know each other, one lawn mower
    would be enough for any neighborhood." -Keith Cash
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    mango's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/3892
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  6. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Ok, today I just finally got some anti-sieze greese so I took the cranks
    off my uni, and I found that the axle is really rusty! :eek:

    I've only rinsed my uni off twice with a hose when it got really muddy,
    could this have caused all that rust? The rust wasn't thick and it was
    only on the surface, but it covered all the splines and in the cracks
    between them :(

    What should I do? Just scrape it off with steel wool or what?

    Thanks for the help guys, sorry to resurect this thread :D


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  7. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    Use a wire brush or steel wool to remove the rust. A little WD-40 or
    light oil may also help you get the rust off.

    Then cover the axle and the splines with anti-seize before putting it
    back together. The anti-seize will help protect the steel parts from
    rusting again. And don't forget to put some anti-seize on the crank
    bolts too.

    I don't wash off my muni or my bike with water. Water just causes rust
    problems. And if you spray the water on the uni with a nozzle you can
    end up getting water in the bearings and in other places where the water
    shouldn't go. It's better to just brush off any dirt with a utility
    brush.

    If you ride your uni in the rain or other wet conditions (snow, mud,
    streams, etc.) then you'll need to check for rust more often and make
    sure that the grease or anti-seize is still there and not washed away.


    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
    Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  8. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Ok, I covered every part in anti-sieze (the axle, the axle bolts, pinch
    bolts) and then reassembled it and crancked everything down as tight as
    I could. But just now when I rode it, it started creaking again when I
    hopped :(

    Should I tighten the bolts down again? Do they just come loose a little
    after the first ride?

    Thanks for the help john :D


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  9. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Ok, I covered every part in anti-sieze (the axle, the axle bolts, pinch
    bolts) and then reassembled it and crancked everything down as tight as
    I could. But just now when I rode it, it started creaking again when I
    hopped :(

    Should I tighten the bolts down again? Do they just come loose a little
    after the first ride?

    Thanks for the help john :D


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  10. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    ethilien wrote:
    > *Should I tighten the bolts down again? Do they just come loose a
    > little after the first ride? *


    Check the bolts again. They will work themselves loose after being
    greased. Eventually they'll settle in and stay tight longer.

    But don't overdo it. One person managed to break off one of the big
    crank bolts by overtightening the bolts. Don't get them too tight. You
    can break the bolts off.

    At this point it is probably not the cranks that are making the noise.
    It could be the spokes. Take the wheel to a good bike shop and ask them
    to tension all the spokes. The KH unicycles don't get a top notch wheel
    build at the factory and the spokes aren't as tight as they should be.
    A good wheel build will strengthen the wheel and get rid of any spoke
    creaking.

    Your local bike shop will charge somewhere around $15 or $20 to do the
    wheel tensioning. Have them tension in up tight and then stress relieve
    all the spokes. It is best to find a bike shop that is known for their
    wheel building skills. Not all bike shops do a good job of wheel
    building. Ask a local MTB club for local bike shop recommendations that
    do good wheel builds.

    If the spokes are loose or if the spokes have a lot of wind-up you can
    get creaking noises from the spokes. Where the spokes cross each other
    the spokes will rub and make creaking noises. One thing you can do is
    put a little dab of grease or a little drop of oil at each point where
    the spokes cross. But a well built wheel should not creak like that.
    The creaking is a sign of a poorly built wheel.


    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
    Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  11. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    I'm pretty sure its not the spokes, they don't seem very loose and the
    noise it makes isn't the same I hear when riding.

    Also, when I hold the uni up and just put my foot on one pedal and push
    down hard the crank moves a little bit and it clicks :(

    I have the bolts as tight as I can possibly get them, could this be a
    problem caused by the axel being too small or something? Could some rust
    have done that or something, so that the cranks don't fit tight anymore?
    :confused:


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  12. Jerad

    Jerad Guest

  13. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    ethilien wrote:
    > *I'm pretty sure its not the spokes, they don't seem very loose and
    > the noise it makes isn't the same I hear when riding.
    >
    > Also, when I hold the uni up and just put my foot on one pedal and
    > push down hard the crank moves a little bit and it clicks :(
    >
    > I have the bolts as tight as I can possibly get them, could this be a
    > problem caused by the axle being too small or something? Could some
    > rust have done that or something, so that the cranks don't fit tight
    > anymore? :confused: *



    Spokes can make strange noises and not sound the way that you would
    expect them to. Unless you've got experience feeling the spokes of a
    really well built wheel it is hard to know how tight is tight enough.
    You can feel the spokes of a poorly built wheel and say "these feel
    tight". And then feel the spokes of a well built wheel and say "wow!
    these feel really tight". Without a frame of reference it is hard to
    say what is tight and what is not. A good bike shop will know the
    difference, so if you're unsure have the bike shop take a look.

    But all that stuff on wheels may not be the problem. Jerad brought up a
    good possibility. It could be the axle is actually moving inside of the
    hub body. This would happen due to poor tolerances during
    manufacture.

    The steel axle is actually press fit in the aluminum hub body. If that
    press fit isn't tight the axle will move inside of the hub body and feel
    like a loose crank. Steve Howard has a gallery with pictures of a
    'dissected KH hub' (http://gallery.unicyclist.com/KH_hub). The pictures
    will show you how the hub goes together. Now imagine that the axle was
    slightly undersized or that the hole in the hub body was slightly
    oversized. You'll end up with slop and the axle will move in the hub
    body. That may be what is happening with your hub.

    What you can do is push down on one crank and feel if the other crank
    rises up an equal amount. If both cranks are moving in unison then it's
    a loose axle in the hub body. If the cranks move independently then
    it's a loose crank and not a loose hub. It may take two people to test
    this. You may have to stand on one pedal while someone else holds their
    hand on the other crank and feels for movement. What you're trying to
    determine is if the cranks are moving in unison or independently. It
    may take some force to get the cranks or axle to slip so it may not be
    easy. A bike shop would be a good place to go for a second opinion on
    the matter. Print out the pictures in Steve's gallery so the bike shop
    guys can see how it's put together, then explain the problem and see if
    they agree that the axle is loose.

    If it turns out to be the hub then contact unicycle.com or the place
    where you bought the unicycle and find out what to do from there. If
    the hub is loose you can still ride it. You're not going to damage the
    cranks. If you're handy with shop tools and machining tools you can try
    fixing the hub by bonding the axle inside the hub body with epoxy. That
    would be a temporary fix until you can get a replacement hub, hopefully
    under warranty.


    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
    Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  14. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Ok, I just did what you said, I held the wheel in between my knees and
    pushed on the cranks. I can see now that both move in complete unisun
    without the wheel moving :(

    So I guess the diagnosis is the axle is slipping in the hub huh? So
    should I send it back to unicycle.com (that is where I bought it) and
    get a replacement?

    Thanks for all the help guys, I really am clueless when it comes to
    reparing something like this :D


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  15. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    ethilien wrote:
    > *So I guess the diagnosis is the axle is slipping in the hub huh? So
    > should I send it back to unicycle.com (that is where I bought it) and
    > get a replacement? *



    Call unicycle.com and find out from them what to do. I'm not sure what
    process they have for replacing the defective hubs.

    My guess is that they'll have you ship the defective wheel back to them
    and then they'll ship you a new wheel. Hopefully they'll cover the
    shipping.

    One option that would result in lower shipping costs would be to have
    them ship you just a new hub. You can have a local bike shop swap the
    hub and rebuild the wheel. Then you ship back the old hub. A local
    bike shop will probably charge somewhere around $30 to $40 to do that.
    But they'll need both hubs so they can swap the spokes and keep the
    spokes in the same position on the new wheel. This option might be less
    than shipping an entire wheel back to Georgia and then shipping an
    entire wheel back to Denver. I don't know if unicycle.com will consider
    this option. Most likely they'll just have you ship the entire wheel
    back.

    The advantage here (in addition to saving shipping costs) is that you'll
    end up with a hand built wheel out of the deal. It will save you the
    $20 later of having your new wheel retensioned. Being in Denver you
    should have some very good local bike shops who can do the wheel build.


    But for now you can still ride the uni. You're not going to damage the
    hub more than it already is.


    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
    Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  16. Ken Cline

    Ken Cline Guest

    "john_childs" <[email protected]> writes:

    > One option that would result in lower shipping costs would be to have
    > them ship you just a new hub. You can have a local bike shop swap the
    > hub and rebuild the wheel. Then you ship back the old hub. A local
    > bike shop will probably charge somewhere around $30 to $40 to do that.


    If you want to come up to Fort Collins I'll rebuild your wheel. No
    charge. I do a quality wheelbuild (way better than the stock KH24).

    Ken
     
  17. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Wow, thats generous of you!

    Thanks Ken, I'd love to take advantage of your offer, but I think I'm
    gonna call up unicycle.com first to ask if they'll ship me a new hub so
    that would work, or if I have to send the whole wheel back :)

    If that'll work out I'll figure out some way to contact you :D


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  18. Ken Cline

    Ken Cline Guest

    "ethilien" <[email protected]> writes:

    > If that'll work out I'll figure out some way to contact you :D


    Hint: My phone number is listed.

    Ken
     
  19. ethilien

    ethilien Guest

    Once again I shall resurect this thread... ;)

    Ok, here's the problem, I had a new wheel shipped to me by unicycle.com
    (sorry ken, I can't have you just switch the hub :( ), and I'm supposed
    to switch it out with my current one. I have a couple of questions
    regarding doing this however:

    1. How do you get the bearings off? They're the only thing stil on the
    wheel, but I can't get them off. Do I just pull really hard, or what?

    2. When I'm reassembling the wheel, is there a certain amount of
    pressure I should put on the fork axle clamps?

    Thanks for the help once again guys :D


    --
    ethilien - Unicycling DCC

    Stop looking at my signature. It is unimportant. Have you stopped
    looking yet? NO YOU HAVEN'T! STOP LOOKING AT MY SIGNATURE!
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    ethilien's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/6984
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
  20. john_childs

    john_childs Guest

    The bearings on the KH hub should come off without too much effort. The
    bearings slip on the axle. They're not pressed on like with the
    standard square tapered hubs. But even still, they may be a little bit
    stubborn to remove.

    Try some light penetrating oil to loosen the bearings up. Try something
    like Tri-Flow or a similar oil. Note that WD-40 is not a lubricant and
    won't give as good of results. Maybe after the oil has worked its way
    in you'll be able to pull the bearings off by hand.

    If that doesn't work you can resort to a bearing puller like the
    'Evercraft bearing puller'
    (http://www.unicycle.com/shopping/shopexd.asp?id=419). But that's a
    little overkill for the KH bearings. You can find these bearing pullers
    at auto parts stores like NAPA. They're used to remove pulleys from
    things like the power steering unit and the water pump. At the auto
    parts store they're called a pulley puller. At the unicycle store
    they're called a bearing puller.

    The bearing clamps on the frame should be tightened so they're snug but
    not tight. If you get them too tight the bearing won't spin freely. If
    you get them too loose the bearing will wobble in the bearing clamp and
    the bolts will vibrate loose.

    My rule of thumb is to just get them finger tight. Hold the allen key
    with your finger tips and tighten it up. If you make a fist around the
    allen key you are going to get the bolts too tight.

    Screws (bolts) can generate a lot of clamping force with just a half or
    quarter revolution. There is a lot of mechanical advantage in the screw
    threads. It is very easy to get the bearing caps too tight. A little
    experimentation and you'll get the hang of it and discover exactly how
    tight is just right.


    --
    john_childs - Guinness Mojo

    john_childs (at) hotmail (dot) com
    Gallery: '' (http://www.unicyclist.com/gallery/john_childs)
    ------------------------------------------------------------------------
    john_childs's Profile: http://www.unicyclist.com/profile/449
    View this thread: http://www.unicyclist.com/thread/34174
     
Loading...
Loading...