Khannouchi Out, There Goes U.S. Gold....

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by Globaldisc, Dec 6, 2003.

  1. Globaldisc

    Globaldisc Guest

    Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
    Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
    and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
    cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
     
    Tags:


  2. On 05 Dec 2003 13:23:27 GMT, [email protected] (Globaldisc) wrote:

    >Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
    >Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
    >and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
    >cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    >only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.

    He wears nikes.
     
  3. On 05 Dec 2003 13:23:27 GMT, [email protected] (Globaldisc) wrote:

    >Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
    >Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
    >and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
    >cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    >only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    Nikes are for losers.
     
  4. Lyndon

    Lyndon Guest

    Andrew wrote:

    >Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
    >Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
    >and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
    >cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    >only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    >
    What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent causes. There's been some
    discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries from speedwork or speedwork without proper
    preparation. KK has runners knee and a torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so,
    speed aside, he'd fit right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's
    statement to the OT race director:

    "For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my foot and my knee. I tried to
    be careful about it and had much physiotherapy treatment during these last 8 months. I went to
    Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and got good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much
    time I would have to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and this
    mistake was causing the injuries to return...

    Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training should be done after 6 weeks of
    regular running and strengthening exercises."

    I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as much hard speed as anyone
    here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks after a break: Nothing faster than steady state runs
    and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of general
    exercises (no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70% speed.

    I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast speed training without the
    proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.

    Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson
     
  5. I'm sure the American viewers are going to be disappointed. All 8 of them.
     
  6. Tony Tornado

    Tony Tornado Guest

    He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.

    On 05 Dec 2003 18:41:15 GMT, [email protected] (Lyndon) wrote:

    >Andrew wrote:
    >
    >>Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
    >>Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
    >>and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
    >>cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    >>only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    >>
    >What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent causes. There's been some
    >discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries from speedwork or speedwork without proper
    >preparation. KK has runners knee and a torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so,
    >speed aside, he'd fit right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's
    >statement to the OT race director:
    >
    >"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my foot and my knee. I tried to
    >be careful about it and had much physiotherapy treatment during these last 8 months. I went to
    >Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and got good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much
    >time I would have to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and this
    >mistake was causing the injuries to return...
    >
    >Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training should be done after 6 weeks of
    >regular running and strengthening exercises."
    >
    >I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as much hard speed as anyone
    >here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks after a break: Nothing faster than steady state
    >runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of
    >general exercises (no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70% speed.
    >
    >I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast speed training without
    >the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.
    >
    >Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson
     
  7. Tony Tornado

    Tony Tornado Guest

    He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.

    On 05 Dec 2003 18:41:15 GMT, [email protected] (Lyndon) wrote:

    >Andrew wrote:
    >
    >>Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from running,
    >>Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of chronic foot
    >>and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement are likely to
    >>cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    >>only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    >>
    >What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent causes. There's been some
    >discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries from speedwork or speedwork without proper
    >preparation. KK has runners knee and a torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so,
    >speed aside, he'd fit right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's
    >statement to the OT race director:
    >
    >"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my foot and my knee. I tried to
    >be careful about it and had much physiotherapy treatment during these last 8 months. I went to
    >Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and got good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much
    >time I would have to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and this
    >mistake was causing the injuries to return...
    >
    >Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training should be done after 6 weeks of
    >regular running and strengthening exercises."
    >
    >I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as much hard speed as anyone
    >here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks after a break: Nothing faster than steady state
    >runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of
    >general exercises (no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70% speed.
    >
    >I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast speed training without
    >the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.
    >
    >Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track Coach Brooks Johnson
     
  8. Dwjones

    Dwjones Guest

    i thought khannouchi wore new balance. "Tony Tornado" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.
    >
    > On 05 Dec 2003 18:41:15 GMT, [email protected] (Lyndon) wrote:
    >
    > >Andrew wrote:
    > >
    > >>Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him
    from
    > >>running, Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic
    marathon
    > >>trials because of chronic foot and knee injuries. The timing of the
    decision
    > >>and the handling of its announcement are likely to cause further
    discomfort
    > >>to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    only
    > >>U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    > >>
    > >What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent
    causes.
    > >There's been some discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries
    from
    > >speedwork or speedwork without proper preparation. KK has runners knee
    and a
    > >torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so, speed aside,
    he'd fit
    > >right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's statement to the OT race
    > >director:
    > >
    > >"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my
    foot and
    > >my knee. I tried to be careful about it and had much physiotherapy
    treatment
    > >during these last 8 months. I went to Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and
    got
    > >good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much time I
    would have
    > >to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and
    this
    > >mistake was causing the injuries to return...
    > >
    > >Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training
    should be
    > >done after 6 weeks of regular running and strengthening exercises."
    > >
    > >I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as
    much
    > >hard speed as anyone here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks
    after a
    > >break: Nothing faster than steady state runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like
    > >Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of general
    exercises
    > >(no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70%
    speed.
    > >
    > >I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast
    speed
    > >training without the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.
    > >
    > >Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track
    Coach
    > >Brooks Johnson
     
  9. Dwjones

    Dwjones Guest

    i thought khannouchi wore new balance. "Tony Tornado" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > He wears nikes. Losers wear nikes.
    >
    > On 05 Dec 2003 18:41:15 GMT, [email protected] (Lyndon) wrote:
    >
    > >Andrew wrote:
    > >
    > >>Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him
    from
    > >>running, Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic
    marathon
    > >>trials because of chronic foot and knee injuries. The timing of the
    decision
    > >>and the handling of its announcement are likely to cause further
    discomfort
    > >>to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the distance and is the
    only
    > >>U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    > >>
    > >What's interesting here is his type of injuries and their apparent
    causes.
    > >There's been some discussed here by Donovan and others about injuries
    from
    > >speedwork or speedwork without proper preparation. KK has runners knee
    and a
    > >torn tendon between the first and second metatarsal, so, speed aside,
    he'd fit
    > >right in with the people posting here about running injuries. From KK's statement to the OT race
    > >director:
    > >
    > >"For the last 8 months I have being dealing with chronic injury on my
    foot and
    > >my knee. I tried to be careful about it and had much physiotherapy
    treatment
    > >during these last 8 months. I went to Ireland to see Gerard Hartman and
    got
    > >good results. As a professional, I was worried about how much time I
    would have
    > >to train for the Olympic Trials. I began training too fast too soon and
    this
    > >mistake was causing the injuries to return...
    > >
    > >Coming to fast into training was not an option. Fast speed training
    should be
    > >done after 6 weeks of regular running and strengthening exercises."
    > >
    > >I can already see Doug nodding in agreement. I personally probably do as
    much
    > >hard speed as anyone here, but I don't go near a track for 6-8 weeks
    after a
    > >break: Nothing faster than steady state runs and a weekly session of hill repeats. Even guys like
    > >Maurice Greene start with 6 weeks of general
    exercises
    > >(no track at all) and when they do start at the track, they start at 70%
    speed.
    > >
    > >I don't care who you are or how much "talent" you have, jumping into fast
    speed
    > >training without the proper preparation is a recipe for disaster.
    > >
    > >Lyndon "Speed Kills...It kills those that don't have it!" --US Olympic Track
    Coach
    > >Brooks Johnson
     
  10. Bigsky

    Bigsky Guest

    He uses New Balance.

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > On 05 Dec 2003 13:23:27 GMT, [email protected] (Globaldisc) wrote:
    >
    > >Read on AP: Despite vowing five months ago that not even a broken leg would keep him from
    > >running, Khalid Khannouchi has withdrawn from the 2004 U.S. Olympic marathon trials because of
    > >chronic foot and knee injuries. The timing of the decision and the handling of its announcement
    > >are likely to cause further discomfort to Khannouchi, who twice has set world records at the
    > >distance and is the only U.S. runner capable of challenging the world's elite.
    >
    > He wears nikes.
     
  11. Keith Stone

    Keith Stone Guest

    [email protected] (Miss Anne Thrope) wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > I'm sure the American viewers are going to be disappointed. All 8 of them.

    That's a totally unfair statement. There's going to be at least 12 for sure. We'll likely send
    three marathoners in each event. Each has a Father and Mother, so that's 12 right there. I'm sure a
    couple have sisters, brothers, in-laws or whatever to make up for the possible single parent homes
    and orphans.

    Now the demographics may be bad for the sellers of the inevitable stream of tampon ads brought on by
    the gymnastics coverage. A half dozen are likely men, and the women are probably post-menopausal,
    but they'll at least buy some underwear from Hanes so the network will be all over it

    You should know better than to sell the potential market short by a third.
     
  12. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (M1ahearn) wrote:

    > >> That's a totally unfair statement. There's going to be at least 12 for
    > sure. We'll likely send three marathoners in each event. <<
    >
    > Only if the trials winner has an Olympic-qualifying time. We only sent one male and one
    > female marathoner to the 2000 games.

    Wasn't thank because they made the trials Marathon a particularly hard one? I seem to recall some
    complaints about how tough a race they made it.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  13. In article <[email protected]>,
    M1ahearn <[email protected]> wrote:
    > The weather was uncooperative in both races, I think. The women's trial was in Columbia, South
    > Carolina in February and it got up to 70 degrees, I think. The men's was in Pittsburgh in May
    > and it was at least as warm. The South Carolina weather was a little unusual, I think, but the
    > Pittsburgh weather was not that atypical. Holding the race there was just a bad idea, in my
    > opinion.

    If you going to have trials you arguably should do it under similar conditions to those expected at
    the Olympics - and Sydney was about the same temparture for the marathons. The problem seems to me
    more the US's selection rules resulting in people with A-qualifiers not being selected.

    Andrew Taylor
     
  14. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Andrew Taylor) wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, M1ahearn <[email protected]> wrote:
    > > The weather was uncooperative in both races, I think. The women's trial was in Columbia,
    > > South Carolina in February and it got up to 70 degrees, I think. The men's was in Pittsburgh
    > > in May and it was at least as warm. The South Carolina weather was a little unusual, I
    > > think, but the Pittsburgh weather was not that atypical. Holding the race there was just a
    > > bad idea, in my opinion.
    >
    > If you going to have trials you arguably should do it under similar conditions to those expected
    > at the Olympics - and Sydney was about the same temparture for the marathons.

    Well, it seems like the decision to only allow people to compete if they reach a certain qualifying
    time seems to suggest that they run it in conditions favorable to fast times. Realistically, whoever
    wins when it's hot will probably be in the top 3 in cooler conditions, and having 3 people on your
    team gives you a better chance at having someone have a good day and earning a medal.

    >The problem seems to me more the US's selection rules resulting in people with A-qualifiers not
    >being selected.

    Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  15. In article <[email protected]>,
    Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

    A nation can send up to 3 athletes to the Olympic Marathon if they've all met the Olympic A standard
    during the qualifying period or one athlete who has met the B standard.

    The US automatically selects the winner of the trials marathon. If this winner has only met B
    standard this precludes the US sending other athletes.

    Andrew Taylor
     
  16. Dot

    Dot Guest

    Andrew Taylor wrote:

    > In article <[email protected]>, Harold Buck
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.
    >
    >
    > A nation can send up to 3 athletes to the Olympic Marathon if they've all met the Olympic A
    > standard during the qualifying period or one athlete who has met the B standard.
    >
    > The US automatically selects the winner of the trials marathon. If this winner has only met B
    > standard this precludes the US sending other athletes.

    Apparently there was a change in procedure a couple months before trials for this to be the final
    way (and what caused a lot of unhappiness for the women):

    "She [Johnston] complained that initially U.S. officials said all she would need was a qualifying
    time, but then, only a couple of months ago, the final procedure was announced: Only the trials
    winner would go to the Games if the winning time did not meet the standard." from
    http://www.runnersworld.com/events/road2sydney/women_trials/news/2_26_00trials.html

    I think I saw where the qualifying times have been changed for this year, but not sure and don't
    remember where I read it - just something I bumped into while looking for something else.

    Dot

    --
    "Success is different things to different people" -Bernd Heinrich in Racing the Antelope
     
  17. ahass

    ahass Guest

    Harold Buck <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> In article <[email protected]>, M1ahearn <[email protected]> wrote:
    >> > The weather was uncooperative in both races, I think. The women's trial was in Columbia,
    >> > South Carolina in February and it got up to 70 degrees, I think. The men's was in
    >> > Pittsburgh in May and it was at least as warm. The South Carolina weather was a little
    >> > unusual, I think, but the Pittsburgh weather was not that atypical. Holding the race there
    >> > was just a bad idea, in my opinion.

    ---It was nearly 80F in Pittsburgh, which is a tough course to begin with. THis caused many of the
    favorites to either drop out or run SLOW (ie 2:30ish) times.

    >>
    >> If you going to have trials you arguably should do it under similar conditions to those expected
    >> at the Olympics - and Sydney was about the same temparture for the marathons.

    ---Well, it depends. Do you want one person going or 3? Selecting a hot qualifying race doesn'
    necessarily mean you will select the person best able to handle those conditions, only that you
    select the one best able to handle it on THAT DAY.

    > Well, it seems like the decision to only allow people to compete if they reach a certain
    > qualifying time seems to suggest that they run it in conditions favorable to fast times.
    > Realistically, whoever wins when it's hot will probably be in the top 3 in cooler conditions, and
    > having 3 people on your team gives you a better chance at having someone have a good day and
    > earning a medal.

    ---Ah, but this is the marathon and not the 10k. Someone who wins when it's hot will not necessarily
    be top 3 when it's cool; a good number of top-3 caliber people bit the dust at Pittsbrugh in 2000.
    We have one guy at 2:09 and about 5 more under or around 2:13...Any of these six could make up the
    top 3, or someone with a PR of 2:14-2:15 (of which there are a dozen!) could step up in rough
    conditions.

    >>The problem seems to me more the US's selection rules resulting in people with A-qualifiers not
    >>being selected.

    > Could you please explain what you mean by this? I'm not familiar with the selection rules.

    ---The US uses a "reward the winner" system. This means that if you win the Trials, you
    automatically go to the Olympics. If you are over the Olympic A standard at the Trials however (like
    DeHaven in 2000), you are the ONLY person who gets to go. If the winner makes the Olympic "A"
    standard, then the next two finishers who have the A standard (if even before the Trials) get to go
    too. Andy Hass
     
  18. Dot <[email protected]#att.net> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > I think I saw where the qualifying times have been changed for this year, but not sure and don't
    > remember where I read it - just something I bumped into while looking for something else.

    Yes, the IAAF convened at the end of last month and changed the qualifying limits. In marathon the
    bar was lowered quite a bit:

    Men: A 2:12:00 - 2:15:00 B 2:14:30 - 2:18:00

    Women: A 2:32:00 - 2:37:00 B 2:36:00 - 2:42:00

    Anders
     
  19. Harold Buck

    Harold Buck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Anders Lustig) wrote:

    > Yes, the IAAF convened at the end of last month and changed the qualifying limits. In marathon the
    > bar was lowered quite a bit:
    >
    > Men: A 2:12:00 - 2:15:00 B 2:14:30 - 2:18:00
    >
    > Women: A 2:32:00 - 2:37:00 B 2:36:00 - 2:42:00

    What happens if you run less than 2:12?

    [JK--I assume that the cutoff for A will be set at some sepcific point in that range.]

    --Harold Buck

    "I used to rock and roll all night, and party every day. Then it was every other day. . . ."

    - Homer J. Simpson
     
  20. >> Men: A 2:12:00 - 2:15:00
    >> B 2:14:30 - 2:18:00
    >>
    >> Women: A 2:32:00 - 2:37:00 B 2:36:00 - 2:42:00
    >
    >
    >What happens if you run less than 2:12?

    It appears to be confusingly presented, but here's what I think it means: The men's A standard was
    changed to 2:15 from 2:12 and the B standard to 2:18 from 2:14:30. Similarly for the women.

    --
    Brian P. Baresch Fort Worth, Texas, USA Professional editing and proofreading

    If you're going through hell, keep going. --Winston Churchill
     
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