Kids safety & the "climate of fear" (warning: heavy stuff, some may not want to read this)

[Simon Galgut]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I'm not certain, but I believe the school may in that case have committed
an
> offence. This would not apply if it was a private school, but I don't
think
> state schools are allowed to exclude pupils based on behaviour outside school - this may well be
> wrong, of course, but what these boys did (as stated) was legal, did not bring the school into
> disrepute, had no implications for public order and infringed no road traffic regulations -
so
> any school which excluded them on the basis of cycling to school without a polystyrene yarmulke
> would undoubtedly face some searching questions at appeal.

I wouldn't bet on it. The same moronic tree-hugging liberals who sit on appeals panels and insist
that young thugs who terrorise and assault teachers are re-instated, probably also think that
helmets are obligatory and 'A Good Thing' and all cyclists should be forced to wear them

Regards Simon

 

[Just Zis Guy]

Simon Galgut wrote:
>> any school which excluded them on the basis of cycling to school without a polystyrene yarmulke
>> would undoubtedly face some searching questions at appeal.

> I wouldn't bet on it. The same moronic tree-hugging liberals who sit on appeals panels and insist
> that young thugs who terrorise and assault teachers are re-instated, probably also think that
> helmets are obligatory and 'A Good Thing' and all cyclists should be forced to wear them

Speaking as a paid-up tree-hugging liberal, I think you'll find that appeals panels are slightly
better briefed than that.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104

 

[Tony W]

"Simon Galgut" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> I wouldn't bet on it. The same moronic tree-hugging liberals who sit on appeals panels and insist
> that young thugs who terrorise and assault teachers are re-instated, probably also think that
> helmets are obligatory and 'A Good Thing' and all cyclists should be forced to wear them

Lots of anger here. Somehow the term 'tree hugging liberal' brings to mind beards, sandals and
ancient push bikes. Certainly not concepts like Obligatory and Forced to wear. This sounds much too
authoritarian for liberals (tree hugging or not).

T

 

[Simon Galgut]

"Just zis Guy, you know?" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

>
> Speaking as a paid-up tree-hugging liberal, I think you'll find that
appeals
> panels are slightly better briefed than that.
>

Do you have any idea who sits on appeals panels ??

 

[Simon Galgut]

"Tony W" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> Lots of anger here. Somehow the term 'tree hugging liberal' brings to
mind
> beards, sandals and ancient push bikes. Certainly not concepts like Obligatory and Forced to wear.
> This sounds much too authoritarian for liberals (tree hugging or not).

Perhaps the wrong term. Now who else can I upset. How about self-serving councillors, lay persons
without any clue what they are doing etc.

No anger - just been on the wrong end of some panel decisions so Guy's idea(l)s of searching
questions at appeal was a bit provking

Regards Simon

 

[Just Zis Guy]

Simon Galgut wrote:

>> Speaking as a paid-up tree-hugging liberal, I think you'll find that appeals panels are slightly
>> better briefed than that.

> Do you have any idea who sits on appeals panels ??

The ones we deal with usually have a couple of folks from the LEA and at least one
independent person.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104

 

[Tony W]

"Simon Galgut" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> Perhaps the wrong term. Now who else can I upset. How about self-serving councillors,

Any idea of the ammount of time and commitment your local coucillors (of whatever stripe) put in for
next to no money?

T

 

[Marc]

Simon Galgut <[email protected]> wrote:

> How about self-serving councillors, lay persons without any clue what they are doing etc.

There is another kind of councillor?

 

[Marc]

Tony W <[email protected]> wrote:

> > Perhaps the wrong term. Now who else can I upset. How about self-serving councillors,
>
> Any idea of the ammount of time and commitment your local coucillors (of whatever stripe) put in
> for next to no money?

Under the cabinet method up to 35 hrs per week for up to £80,000. Next question?

 

[David Pipes]

In message <[email protected]>, Marc
<[email protected]> writes
>Tony W <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> > Perhaps the wrong term. Now who else can I upset. How about self-serving councillors,
>>
>> Any idea of the ammount of time and commitment your local coucillors (of whatever stripe) put in
>> for next to no money?
>
>Under the cabinet method up to 35 hrs per week for up to £80,000. Next question?
Which planet is that on? The annual allowance for a district councillor in my part of Somerset
is £2,500.
--
DP

 

[Marc]

David Pipes <[email protected]> wrote:

> >> Any idea of the ammount of time and commitment your local coucillors (of whatever stripe) put
> >> in for next to no money?
> >
> >Under the cabinet method up to 35 hrs per week for up to £80,000. Next question?
> Which planet is that on?

"What planet are you on? " A question that is asked more and more often in regard to Bridgend County
Borough Council :-(

> The annual allowance for a district councillor in my part of Somerset is £2,500.

COUNCILLORS' ANNUAL ALLOWANCES Basic allowance      £10,200 Leader £30,678 Deputy Leader £16,872
Cabinet Member £15,338 Members with Special Responsibility £6,135 Chairs of Scrutiny Committees
£9,203 Chairs of Main Committees £6,135 Vice Chairs of Main Committees £3,067

--
Marc T Shirts, Sweatshirts, polo shirts, banners, signs,decals, stickers etc for clubs and
associations of all types http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

 

[David Pipes]

In message <1fpn9q7.1cce89tznbwruN%[email protected]>, marc
<[email protected]> writes
>David Pipes <[email protected]> wrote:
>> The annual allowance for a district councillor in my part of Somerset is £2,500.
>
>
>COUNCILLORS' ANNUAL ALLOWANCES Basic allowance      £10,200 Leader £30,678 Deputy Leader £16,872
>Cabinet Member £15,338 Members with Special Responsibility £6,135 Chairs of Scrutiny Committees
>£9,203 Chairs of Main Committees £6,135 Vice Chairs of Main Committees £3,067

<Gulp!> A quick 'google' on councillors' allowances from 8 councils shows a range from £1,500 to
£5,500 with the exception of Bridgend. The words 'gravy' and 'train' spring to mind.
--
DP

 

[Gary Knighton]

In article <1fpjou5.1bxvcmm1501avkN%[email protected]>, Marc wrote:
> If the above was even 1/2way true then why don't schools impose rules that state that children may
> not be ferried in bloody great 4x4s that block the gates every morning?
>

School can only impose rules on children while in the position of loco parentis. If the school gates
are obstructed by mobile real estate then it is a police matter provided the entrances are marked
and traffic orders exist. Random visits by the police usually keep such offenders at bay at the
local school.

Gary

--

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[Gary Knighton]

In article <[email protected]>, You know? Just zis Guy wrote:
> Popint of information, Mr Speaker: no they may *not* impose any such rule. The most they may do
> is forbid the child to bring the cycle onto the premises, and they would then be on a sticky
> wicket if it was stolen due to being placed in a less secure place than would otherwise have been
> the case.
>

Stand corrected, bringing a cycle unaccompanied onto school premises.

> As is the cycling proficiency scheme today - it now includes road cycling. At least it does at the
> school where I'm a governor - and if it didn't before it would this year because I'm the
> instructor
>

Good for you. I was asked if I liked to be a school governor but the problem is the times of the
meetings, they start at 6.30pm, I don't get home until after 6pm! Is the scheme for which you are an
instructor actually known as "Cycle Proficiency" or is it a cycling skills course. How much of the
tuition is on-road?

Gary

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[Gary Knighton]

In article <[email protected]>, Phil Bixby wrote:
> You a Yorkie too then Gary?
>

I'm from York, I attended a meeting where the man who used to co-ordinate the cycle training scheme
(Ken Spence, IIRC) spoke about the scheme and his experiences with that and elsewhere. He is
impressed at the way the trainers train young cyclists. He also co-ordinated training by York staff
for cycle trainers elsewhere around the country.

> Not a Good Food Shop customer by any chance?
>

'Fraid not (wherever that is? !!).

Gary

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[Gary Knighton]

In article <[email protected]>, John B wrote:
> Near me, the Primary School says no cycling to school is permitted - and when queried it is on the
> ridiculous grounds that they would insist on helmets and there is nowhere to store them
>

The headteacher of the school in question will have dickey fit if he/she witness how some children
arrive at our local primary. Tandem tricycle with a U-Plus-2 trailer as the family concerned has no
other transport available at that time (car in use elsewhere) and they live about 1-1/2 miles away
(pavement runs out after 1/2 mile) with half-hourly bus service.

Gary

--

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[Just Zis Guy]

Gary Knighton wrote:

> Is the scheme for which you are an instructor actually known as "Cycle Proficiency" or is it a
> cycling skills course.

National Cycling Proficiency, the good old-fashioed RoSPA flavour I think (still to have that chat
with the current bloke).

> How much of the tuition is on-road?

I believe about 20%, with an on-road assessment, but see above.

--
Guy
===
I wonder if you wouldn't mind piecing out our imperfections with your thoughts; and while you're
about it perhaps you could think when we talk of bicycles, that you see them printing their proud
wheels i' the receiving earth; thanks awfully.

http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#103 http://www.highwaycode.gov.uk/09.shtml#104

 

[Marc]

Gary Knighton <[email protected]> wrote:

> > If the above was even 1/2way true then why don't schools impose rules that state that children
> > may not be ferried in bloody great 4x4s that block the gates every morning?
> >
>
> School can only impose rules on children while in the position of loco parentis.

Out of date and incorrect.

> If the school gates are obstructed by mobile real estate then it is a police matter provided the
> entrances are marked and traffic orders exist.
And the use of cycles by children isn't even a police matter let alone a school one.

--
Marc T Shirts, Sweatshirts, polo shirts, banners, signs,decals, stickers etc for clubs and
associations of all types http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

 

[Marc]

David Pipes <[email protected]> wrote:

> <[email protected]> writes
> >David Pipes <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> The annual allowance for a district councillor in my part of Somerset is £2,500.
> >
> >
> >COUNCILLORS' ANNUAL ALLOWANCES Basic allowance      £10,200 Leader £30,678 Deputy Leader £16,872
> >Cabinet Member £15,338 Members with Special Responsibility £6,135 Chairs of Scrutiny Committees
> >£9,203 Chairs of Main Committees £6,135 Vice Chairs of Main Committees £3,067
>
> <Gulp!> A quick 'google' on councillors' allowances from 8 councils shows a range from £1,500 to
> £5,500 with the exception of Bridgend. The words 'gravy' and 'train' spring to mind.

I didn't look for the Cardiff ones which is where my ( admitedly from memory) £80,000 figure came
from, as to 'gravy' and 'train' when you have 40 out of 54 councilors from one party is it any
suprise that they can pay themselves what they like?

--
Marc T Shirts, Sweatshirts, polo shirts, banners, signs,decals, stickers etc for clubs and
associations of all types http://www.jaceeprint.demon.co.uk/

 

[Gary Knighton]

In article <1fpnfzb.1jd59fmht5m75N%[email protected]>, Marc wrote:
> > If the school gates are obstructed by mobile real estate then it is a police matter provided the
> > entrances are marked and traffic orders exist.
> And the use of cycles by children isn't even a police matter let alone a school one.
>
The reference to mobile real estate was that of parents' portable private space which masquerades as
family transport.

Gary

--

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