Kilowatt club

Discussion in 'Power Training' started by AndROOb, Jul 8, 2006.

  1. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    What were the torque numbers for this 5sec sprint (max, avg)? Oh, and have you zeroed your torque since you got your PT?
     


  2. Lucy_Aspenwind

    Lucy_Aspenwind New Member

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    Heh...I can tell you are dubious! [​IMG]

    I have several sets of torque numbers.....the ones in the csv file? the crank torque? hub torque?

    As for zeroing it, I have not done it formally, but have observed that when I coast the power goes to zero and in the csv files of my workouts, I see the torque is consistently 0 when coasting also. Not sure if that counts.
     
  3. Alex Simmons

    Alex Simmons Member

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    Good enough for me. Especially if you show a consistent ability to replicate similar numbers. I was always suspect of when I broke 1400 for the first time, then I found myself doing it fairly regularly (and on 3 different PT hubs), so I knew I had stepped up another level with my NMP. It was one of those season by season improvement things.

    Crank torque as reported in CP is a back calculated number (using cadence, speed & hub torque). PT of course only actually generates a hub torque number, which in itself is pretty useless as a number - hence CP has added the feature of an inferred crank torque. But remember - just pedal, right?;)
     
  4. velomanct

    velomanct New Member

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    Nope. I can't jump for beans. Pedaling a bike is different though.
     
  5. Lucy_Aspenwind

    Lucy_Aspenwind New Member

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    Point taken Alex - the real question is repeatability. Then it becomes difficult to dismiss as a suspect number. I really enjoyed doing these and in general seem to favor shorter, harder efforts than prologned ones (ie....FTP). I'll add them into training as it shouldn't interfere with the entire goal I have of raising FTP.

    My point in sharing this wasn't to pat myself on the back or anything like that. In fact what prompted me to mention it, was a) novelty, and b) an old thread which debated the use of 5s peak power.

    Here's the quote I'm getting at from the aforementioned thread:

    [emphasis added by me - also I am not questioning use of 5s power]

    That's it right there, proving that an untrained person (or rather, someone with just 3 months of riding like me), can generate big power numbers for infinitesimal periods of time - while in normal riding situations at say FTP, is unable to keep up with anyone but the absolute slowest riders!
     
  6. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Not really. But, if you have never zeroed your torque it's possible that your torque numbers are wrong. Torque can be either positive or negative when it should be zero. The "zero when coasting" test should serve to eliminate the possibility that torque is positive when it should be zero, but the PT computer display doesn't show negative torque so if torque is actually negative it will display zero when coasting (hope that makes sense). It is possible to get spurious power numbers with the PT, but I've never heard of multiple repeat errors. Usually, it's just a couple of observations that are easy to spot because they make no sense in the context of the rest of the ride file. It's a good habit to zero torque regularly (e.g., weekly) and before any performance test ride.

    In the CP graph, when you select the peak 5sec segment you'll have some summary statistics at the bottom of that column. One of the summary stats is for torque. Hub torque is fine, since that is what PT is actually measuring.
     
  7. otb4evr

    otb4evr New Member

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    Lucy,

    I guess we will have to find out if your 5 sec power decreases with your FTP training...

    Keep doing the NM work and we will see.

    If it doesn't, be prepared to start smoking some people...

    I thought I remember your weight being about 75 kg, is that right? I apologize if I have it wrong...

    That still gives you a 5 sec w/kg of ~17.3... :eek:

    This will give lots of men fits... Imagine what it would do in a women's field... ;)

    Jim
     
  8. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    Max power of 1400+W and 5sec power of 1300+W is definitely unusual (for males or females). I can only regularly attain ~1200W max power and ~1000W for 5sec and I do L7s on a regular basis.
     
  9. Lucy_Aspenwind

    Lucy_Aspenwind New Member

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    Is it fair to conclude then, as I'm leaning towards, that these abilities are largely genetic vs. FTP & aerobic prowess which are highly trainable?
     
  10. otb4evr

    otb4evr New Member

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    If I remember correctly, bios update 2.21 brought the ability to "auto-zero" the computer while coasting, if the torque was between -6 and +6 in-lbs...

    I think you have to have the "no track bike" switch on.

    Sorry, but I am not remembering the correct terminology, but I think it is on by default. Meaning that it thinks it is going on a road bike anyway.

    Jim
     
  11. Lucy_Aspenwind

    Lucy_Aspenwind New Member

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    Arrrghhh - how dare you insinuate....LOL...I'm joking! I fluctuate between 71-73 depending on time of month.....lately closer to 73 as the rain has made long weekend rides a difficult proposition!

    Heh....it is hard for me to think of any of my cycling abilities as even fair, much less great, when I get dropped on every climb and passed in the flats even by mountain bikers! :eek:
     
  12. otb4evr

    otb4evr New Member

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    Lucy,

    I think that all of them are trainable, but will be limited by genetics...

    That is why we train our weaknesses and race our strengths...

    For instance, I picked up ~300 watts maximum and ~200 watts over 5 seconds this year vs. last year by concentrating on sprints at the end of 2 - 3 workouts every week...

    Jim
     
  13. otb4evr

    otb4evr New Member

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    Come on out to the midwest...

    Or, keep training your butt off and smoke the little chicks after you latch back onto the break during the downhill. As long as the race doesn't finish on an uphill, you have a great chance of unleasing that sprint.

    Really, keep training the sprint. It will come in handy as you build your FTP...

    Jim
     
  14. RapDaddyo

    RapDaddyo Active Member

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    As Jim said, they're all trainable. Actually, I think the often overlooked range is anaerobic capacity (AC or AWC). This matters more than 5sec power in RRs and crits and I think many people don't include L6 intervals in their programs (because they don't appreciate its importance).
     
  15. PaulMD

    PaulMD New Member

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    No, both are genetic and trainable.

    Somepeople have an FTP of 4.5 watt/kg with one training a week. Somepeople have an 5sec max of 18 watt/kg with one training a week. But most cyclists only train their aerobe system.
     
  16. joule

    joule New Member

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    Not a priority for me at this time of the season, but at 990w, cannot get much closer. Being a slow twitcher and a small/light guy, it's a battle to get over that number. No worries tho, other than bragging rights my real concern this upcoming season is to up my "matchbook" size and get rid of the legs cramps that plagued me this past season.



     
  17. Lucy_Aspenwind

    Lucy_Aspenwind New Member

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    Can you suggest a good method? I recall mention of a test where you hold the rear brake, stand on a pedal, have the PT display set to torque and compare it against a given value? is that the one? and if it is, could you please share the details? I've forgotten!

    Max Torque (hub) 647 lb-in
     
  18. Lucy_Aspenwind

    Lucy_Aspenwind New Member

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    LOL - I used to live in chicago and then Toronto, before NM...Let's just say the winters shelled me! My origins are from far warmer climates!

    My FTP number is a darn near perfect punchline to a joke, so it is hard to equate this max power stuff with anything other than a novelty.


    So I have to ask, doesn't this come back to that whole thread I alluded to about 5sec power and its utility? The 5sec power, I'm inferring is perhaps more applicable to track events much more so than RR's & crits? - this is what you mean? And if so, you are saying AWC becomes a big factor in one's success at these types of events (RR's)?
     
  19. otb4evr

    otb4evr New Member

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    Lucy,

    After you have started riding, put your arrows on the wattage line and hold down the right button until the "watts" flashes. You are now in Torque mode. If you see any number other than zero, hold the right button down until it goes to zero.

    Regardless, to get back to Wattage mode, push the right button.

    Jim
     
  20. otb4evr

    otb4evr New Member

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    Yeah, started the ride today and it was 28 degrees. Luckily, no wind.

    It is now 42, but it feels a bit nippy...

    I would love to live out west, but...

    Jim
     
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