Kirk Trainer competition

[TShame]

My cousin bailed out on me.

We used to 'compete' against each other and strive for improvements in time trials.

Anyone with a Kinetic want to post some results?

I am just getting in the indoor groove and had my first real baseline test.

I do short rides compared to most.

My test is a 10 minute, 4 minute, 1 minute ride.

10:00 = 39.0
4:00 = 39.9
1:00 = 43.7

I'm a good month to top level as I peaked at the end of October and coasted in November.


Tim

 

[alienator]

FYI, it's Kurt Kinetic. What are the numbers to the right of the equal signs?

 

[TShame]

average speed. Should I list average watts instead?
Then 407 (10), 423 (4), 528 (1)
These numbers are low compared to last year's peak, but that's what training is for.

 

[TShame]

Well, a bit of error there. I just had to replace the battery and realized I had the wrong wheel size.

This is what it should have been:

10 minute = 43.82 kph
4 minute = 44.83 kph
1 minute = 49.10 kph

I'm not looking for head-to-head comp.
Just try the same workouts and see what increases you can manage every two weeks or so.
Or post a workout for me/others to try.

Sorry for the typo in the original header.

 

[bgoetz]

407 watts for 10 minutes, that seems like quite a bit, especially looking at your other numbers. I am guessing that is just something Kurt Knetic came up with based on an estimated power curve and those #s don't really represent a true wattage. Especially given that you say they are "low". That or you are a talented individual who specializes in longer sustained efforts and races at a high level.

 

[gudujarlson]

Those power numbers don't line up with the published power curve for the KK.

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

 

[alienator]

Those power numbers don't line up with the published power curve for the KK. http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

Wow. Science is useful after all.

 

[bgoetz]

I think it would be impossible to have any type of competition with two different trainers as even two Kurt Knetics are likely to be different. Maybe your cousin bailed because he figured out he had the slow trainer, lol

 

[gregf83]

Originally Posted by gudujarlson .

Those power numbers don't line up with the published power curve for the KK.

http://www.kurtkinetic.com/powercurve.php

Those power numbers look correct for speeds measured in kph.

My KK is generally within 5-10% of power measured with an SRM.

 

[bgoetz]

5-10% is the difference of 10 minute MMP or 5 minute MMP, that would be quite significant. All I am saying is 400+ watts for 10 minutes is quite a large # where as comparitvely

 

[bgoetz]

Of course your power computer reads the same, I would be worried if it didn't. All that thing does is say if you are going x mph the your watts is x, they are all the same. The issue is not all trainers are the same, temperature can have a huge impact, how tight the wheel is tightened, air pressure, type of tire, so on. So your x mph may really be x+/- 50 watts.

 

[TShame]

Understand that these are workouts, not races.
I can withstand 400 watts for some distance.
My best 10 minutes is actually 440, which is low compared to 600 for world class.
I know the watts measurement is accurate. It is the same as outdoor/track wattage.
The speed on the Kinetic is accurate for its design.
They use a 1% incline on road surface, as calculated by the man behind analyticalcycling.com
Please disregard the numbers posted in the original post.

Yesterday I rode a 20 minute exercise at 42.99 kph. This is almost exactly what I do on a good day workout outdoors.
A race time trial can peak at 43.50 kph for a 16 kilo distance., (closer to 48 if I can ride a tail-wind only course)
I haven't done a 'race' mode kilometer in several months, but my wattage average is close to 800.
As I said, I'm not looking for head-to-head numbers.
If I can get this 16 k around 43.5, that's a 1.1&% increase,( I started my indoor season exhausted at 41.57 for comparison)
So far then I've 'improved' 3.4%, but that was just a getting-back-to-normal kind of increase.

My wattage yesterday was 383 (almost exactly what Kinetic curve at 1% and ac.com calculates for my weight at that speed)
My personal best was several years ago at 396.

 

[TShame]

Someone said that my wattage and resulting speeds don't look right in the original post.

You are right, I tried to post the corrected speed numbers, but it wasn't posted???
When I post it says "you are new here and must be approved by moderator" ???

What I submitted as an update was that my wheel size was set wrong, way wrong and the battery died the next day..
I replaced the battery and measured my wheel and redid that workout.

10 minutes...42.92
4 minutes.... 44.04
1 minute.......49.66

 

[gregf83]

Originally Posted by bgoetz .

5-10% is the difference of 10 minute MMP or 5 minute MMP, that would be quite significant.
All I am saying is 400+ watts for 10 minutes is quite a large # where as comparitvely <600 watts for 1 minute is not.
Even a computrainer which is an actual powermeter would be somewhat difficult to have competitions with.
I just always found that power computer that they sell kinda silly. I can accomplish the exact same thing with a speedometer and my Blackburn. I won't have watts, I will have mph, but that is really no different than what the KK spits out.

I don't think it's feasible to have a competition on trainers but I would just comment that KK's new powermeter, (Inride I think) designed to work with their trainers, is more than a speedometer. It attaches to the trainer flywheel and allows them to to a coastdown calibration to eliminate some of the variability associated with tire pressure and roller tension.

 

[TShame]

I posted several replies but they still aren't showing up.
I joined two years ago.

 

[bgoetz]

I am not going to really sit and debate numbers. I will say this, 43.5 for a 16k is just over 27mph average speed. I average higher speeds than that and their is no way in gods green earth that I can come anywhere close to 440 watts for ten minutes. So you either weigh a great deal more than 82kg or you timetrial with a kite on your back. While I think KK trainers are a nice option for someone who does not want to invest in an actual power meter, they are not a power meter. Great tool to focus your training and compare numbers you generate on that machine yes, power meter no I am really not trying to belittle your tool that you use or muck your thread up, it is just that those numbers seemed a bit off to me. But who knows I guess you could weigh 100+ kg.

 

[TShame]

I'm not as aero as I use to be...broke a hip at one point. I didn't say I was the fastest man in the world. My best rides are short distances. watts are relative to size also. If I was Boardman's size, then I could keep up with him for ten minutes.

I train to strive to get faster. Like I said, I can do 48 kph for 20 minutes, but only on a windy day.
I didn't realize my ten minute wattage would impress anyone. Like I said, a lot of pros can do that for an hour. I don't use the kinetic to measure watts.

I need to work on my kilo speed but first I will improve my 20, then the 10, 4 , and finally my kilo before starting on the road this spring.

 

[TShame]

My post window is still not working. Is this normal?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bgoetz .

I am not going to really sit and debate numbers. I will say this, 43.5 for a 16k is just over 27mph average speed. I average higher speeds than that and their is no way in gods green earth that I can come anywhere close to 440 watts for ten minutes.
While I think KK trainers are a nice option for someone who does not want to invest in an actual power meter, they are not a power meter. Great tool to focus your training and compare numbers you generate on that machine yes, power meter no
I am really not trying to belittle your tool that you use or muck your thread up, it is just that those numbers seemed a bit off to me.
How is it my fault you can't do that? I'm a track rider and I kilo and pursuit. A lot of rides in the 20-30 minute range are about 380 watts and 360 over that.I'm not super aero as I broke my hip a few years ago and I'm not tiny like Levi Leipheimer. Jens Viogt can ride 400 watts for an hour. I can do it for 10. You are not reading what this thread is about. Let's hear your numbers and see how much you can up it.

 

[bgoetz]

I suppose if you are basing it off of data from an actual power meter and not your trainer, there is really not much I can debate. My interest in this thread was in how one races on a KK trainer. The numbers you provided, to me seemed to support that the data from a KK trainer is not reliable and cannot be used as a substitute for power numbers provided from a true power meter. Now only you know if you REALLY have data from a power meter that supports the data you get from your KK trainer, but if you do then I suppose my assumption that the trainer is not reliable MAY be wrong. If that is the case 440watts for 10 minutes or even 400 for that matter to me seems quite exceptional. I will say that I have never done a focused 10 minute effort and off the top of my head I think my highest AP for 10 minutes was actually made up of 1000 watt sprints in a crit. I do know what I can do for 5 and 20 minutes, but who knows maybe I am selling myself short OR maybe your focused training for track creates a very functional VO2 max. In any case my apologies for derailing your thread that was simply meant to inspire some form of competitiveness.

 

[TShame]

Thanks. I'm a bit sensitive when it comes to skepticism.

I'm pretty sure I said 440 was my PB. Don't think that came easy.
It was a totally exhausting effort that took a whole winter of build-up.
The best part is winter flab doesn't slow you down on the trainer.
I think a 5, 10, and 20 data rides are more rounded out.
If I up one of them, I know I'm in shape to up the other two.
I'll try another 10 on Thursday or Friday and see where I'm at.
I'm aiming for 420-425. I know what you are saying about watt meters.
Trainer provided watts are all suspect, especially all magnetic and Tacx and Computrainers.
Kinetics feel good and tough and are built exceptionally well.
It is the closest ride to my Velodyne, except it can't do inclines or adjust rider weight.
I still have the Velodyne, but it needs some new wires that run to the computer.


Today I did 4 X 4.

And I was able to post today without a 24 hour wait. Yeah!