Klein vs. Trek

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Lester Long, Sep 25, 2003.

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  1. Lester Long

    Lester Long Guest

    My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004 Trek 5200 or 2004 Klein
    Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both will be available end of October. Both use
    Shimano Ultegra components, and both use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.

    Which bike would you choose?

    Thanks in advance, Lester
    PS: Some specs below:

    KLEIN

    sizes 49cm, 52cm, 54cm, 56cm, 58cm, 61cm color Silver Storm frame material Gradient ZR9000
    w/Carbon Wishbone msrp (usd) $2,619.99 (Double) | $2,649.99 (Triple) fork Klein Aeros 110GSM
    Carbon headset Klein Airheadset rear shock N/A crankset Ultegra 53/39 bottom bracket Shimano
    105 deraileurs (f/r) Shimano Ultegra shifters Shimano Ultegra STI chain Shimano HG-93 wheel
    system Bontrager Race Lite Road tires Bontrager Race X-Lite 700x23C cassette Shimano Ultegra,
    12-25, 9 speed brakes Shimano Ultegra brake levers Shimano Ultegra STI handlebars Bontrager
    Flat-top Race Lite road stem Race Lite 31.8 Stem seatpost Race 5mm-offset seatpost 31.6 x 250
    saddle San Marco Era Luxe, CrMo/leather grips/tape Bontrager Gel Tape

    TREK FRAME OCLV 120 Carbon

    FORK Bontrager Race Lite

    WHEELS Bontrager Race Lite

    DRIVETRAIN: crankset Shimano Ultegra 53/39 or 52/42/30 rear derailleur Shimano Ultegra

    SIZES 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 60, 62cm

    COLORS Nude Carbon, Nude Pearl/Baja Blue (Team)

    Advertised Retail $2,749.99*
     
    Tags:


  2. Mike S.

    Mike S. Guest

    "Lester Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004
    Trek
    > 5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both
    will
    > be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and
    both
    > use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.
    >
    > Which bike would you choose?
    >
    > Thanks in advance, Lester
    > PS: Some specs below:

    The one that fits.

    Mike
     
  3. Lester Long

    Lester Long Guest

    "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > "Lester Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004
    Trek
    > > 5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both
    will
    > > be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and
    both
    > > use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.
    > >
    > > Which bike would you choose?
    > >
    > > Thanks in advance, Lester
    > > PS: Some specs below:
    >
    >
    > The one that fits.
    >
    > Mike

    Can't they both be made to fit?

    Lester
     
  4. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Lester Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > >
    > > The one that fits.
    > >
    > > Mike
    >
    > Can't they both be made to fit?
    >
    > Lester

    He is right, fit is first. They both are just as likely to be fit correctly. They are both
    excellent, but as much as I love Klein, I think the Trek makes a slightly better bike, especially
    for an "only bike", or a first bike. (BTW, get a frame with Campagnolo and your own choice of
    wheels. It will cost less in the long run and will weigh less, if that is important and I assume it
    is if you looked at those 2 bikes).

    Anyhow, there are just a few niggling issues with the Klein compared to the Trek. The Trek is more
    tolerant to impact damage (crashes or accidents during transport and storage). The aluminum is so
    thin in spots, it was a constantly a concern when putting on racks, etc. The plastic frame on the
    Trek is a lot more durable in those situations and I think makes an excellent work horse race bike.
    If there are no sponsorship considerations and you can "live without" aluminum (some claim they
    can't) then I think you will be happier in the long run with the Trek. The only case that would not
    be true would be if you really fell in love with the Klein paint and finish, which is quite a bit
    nicer than the Trek. (This may no longer be true now that Trek produces them). You may have a
    favorite paint scheme and if you are willing to be careful with ding exposure and the quirky
    drop-outs, then it is still a great bike. Just take it for a test ride and change the rear wheel a
    bunch of times to be sure you can deal with it.

    Have fun. They are both great frames. I once was in a spot of bother when I had to replace a stolen
    5 year old Klein and I ended up opting with the Trek simply because it had Campy (I could not wait
    for a build) and discovered the positive attributes as discussed. I also found the comfort to
    stiffness ration better but that brings tire size, pressure and wheels in to play.
     
  5. Lester Long wrote:
    > My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004 Trek 5200 or 2004 Klein
    > Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both will be available end of October. Both use
    > Shimano Ultegra components, and both use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.
    >
    > Which bike would you choose?
    >
    > Thanks in advance, Lester
    > PS: Some specs below:

    Best to Hannah!

    The replies about fit are correct. The tough part is the criteria used for setup. I wanted
    to look like Lemond on the bike. This required a really stretched out position on the bike.
    My arms are long relative to my legs, so (since I had a stock frame) I needed a long stem.
    This gave me a decent setup, but put my weight relatively far forward, which wasn't the best
    for fast downhills. What I needed was a frame with a longer top tube, but I didn't care
    enough to get a custom frame. Anyhow, I never got to be Lemond. But the really stretched out
    position probably contributed to the neck problems I have now. Just make sure she's set up
    comfortably on whatever she chooses. She should also be prepared to tweak the setup
    periodically as she gets more experienced and learns what works for her.

    Steve

    >
    >
    >
    >
    > KLEIN
    >
    > sizes 49cm, 52cm, 54cm, 56cm, 58cm, 61cm color Silver Storm frame material Gradient ZR9000
    > w/Carbon Wishbone msrp (usd) $2,619.99 (Double) | $2,649.99 (Triple) fork Klein Aeros 110GSM
    > Carbon headset Klein Airheadset rear shock N/A crankset Ultegra 53/39 bottom bracket Shimano
    > 105 deraileurs (f/r) Shimano Ultegra shifters Shimano Ultegra STI chain Shimano HG-93 wheel
    > system Bontrager Race Lite Road tires Bontrager Race X-Lite 700x23C cassette Shimano
    > Ultegra, 12-25, 9 speed brakes Shimano Ultegra brake levers Shimano Ultegra STI handlebars
    > Bontrager Flat-top Race Lite road stem Race Lite 31.8 Stem seatpost Race 5mm-offset seatpost
    > 31.6 x 250 saddle San Marco Era Luxe, CrMo/leather grips/tape Bontrager Gel Tape
    >
    >
    >
    > TREK FRAME OCLV 120 Carbon
    >
    > FORK Bontrager Race Lite
    >
    > WHEELS Bontrager Race Lite
    >
    > DRIVETRAIN: crankset Shimano Ultegra 53/39 or 52/42/30 rear derailleur Shimano Ultegra
    >
    > SIZES 50, 52, 54, 56, 58, 60, 62cm
    >
    > COLORS Nude Carbon, Nude Pearl/Baja Blue (Team)
    >
    > Advertised Retail $2,749.99*
    >
    >
    >
     
  6. Corey Green

    Corey Green Guest

    "Lester Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > "Mike S." <[email protected]> wrote in message news:p[email protected]...
    > > "Lester Long" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > news:[email protected]...
    > > > My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004
    > Trek
    > > > 5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both
    > will
    > > > be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and
    > both
    > > > use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.
    > > >
    > > > Which bike would you choose?
    > > >
    > > > Thanks in advance, Lester
    > > > PS: Some specs below:
    > >
    > >
    > > The one that fits.
    > >
    > > Mike
    >
    > Can't they both be made to fit?
    >
    > Lester

    Maybe, maybe not. Depends on a lot of factors.

    Does she have a road bike she is riding now? If so, does she like the way it rides? If not, what
    would she change about the way it rides?

    This is just the start of what you should be asking your wife before purchasing a new bike. You can
    get a lot of opinions on this newsgroup, but the only one that matters is the one your wife has
    after spending countless hours in the saddle riding.

    You can force fit almost any bike to make it work, but that doesn't represent the best solution.
     
  7. patch70

    patch70 New Member

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    If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people? If so, the geometry is unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the one you find more comfortable.
     
  8. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Corey Green" <[email protected]> wrote in message

    > You can force fit almost any bike to make it work, but that doesn't represent the best solution.

    Speaking of fit, don't forget to look at the WSD models from Trek (that might be the wrong acronym,
    because I think it is "Women's Specific Fit" but maybe it is "Dimensions") that are not available
    from Klein. If these are a better fit, then that is a definite advantage for the Treks. BUT, I do
    not know if the OCLV WSDs are out yet so check with your dealer about what is available if your wife
    will be better served by those sizes.
     
  9. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    Mike S. wrote:
    >> The one that fits.

    Lester Long wrote:
    > Can't they both be made to fit?

    The Trek geometry has a rather long top tube so if your body geometry includes a short torso and
    long legs then the Trek might not be the best bet.
     
  10. Rk

    Rk Guest

    patch70 <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people? If so, the geometry is
    > unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the one you find more comfortable.

    Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer top-tube, more seattube
    setback, to accomodate the longer femur that professional racers tend to have.
     
  11. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "RK" <[email protected]com> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
    > patch70 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    > > If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people? If so, the geometry is
    > > unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the one you find more comfortable.
    >
    > Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer top-tube, more seattube
    > setback, to accomodate the longer femur that professional racers tend to have.

    This is mostly true. The only time it was not true was when the Lemond brand was purchased without
    any real design properties. IOW, they wanted the name and the rest would come later, so they slapped
    some Lemond decals on existing Trek models but measured them c-t while Trek normally measures c-c.
    This made it look like the Lemond bike were "really long for the *femur*" (get over it Greg) and it
    worked from a marketing standpoint. In defense of Trek, they did have Greg pen some designs (or at
    least have the designers use some of his published design preferences) and now they do have
    exclusive geometry and design AFAIK.

    With regard to Klein, this company was purchased several years ago and Gary Klein has thus far been
    able to maintain every aspect of his design uniqueness. This says good things about both Trek and
    Klein, IMO.

    Still, Klein and Trek may use slightly different approaches, but they are going after the same
    market do their fit is not going to be terribly different from one another, but the larger scale of
    the Trek line does allow the "WSF" models, which AFAIK are not available with Klein.

    This thread is taking a *.tech flavor, so...I suggest if it continues along these lines it should be
    cross-posted and \ or moved over. (Although I don't care, since many tech issues are race related,
    so whatever you dudes want).
     
  12. Lester Long

    Lester Long Guest

    "Steven Bornfeld" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Lester Long wrote:
    > > My wife just joined a racing team and we're considering either the 2004
    Trek
    > > 5200 or 2004 Klein Q-Pro XV. They are both similarly priced, and both
    will
    > > be available end of October. Both use Shimano Ultegra components, and
    both
    > > use Bontrager Race Lite wheels.
    > >
    > > Which bike would you choose?
    > >
    > > Thanks in advance, Lester
    > > PS: Some specs below:
    >
    > Best to Hannah!

    Thanks Steve! I'm *kinda* her coach, given my brief cycling career 15 years ago, and my weighlifting
    experience. She really loves the sport, so I'm supportive, despite the fact that she can kick my
    butt around Central Park!

    > The replies about fit are correct. The tough part is the criteria used for setup. I wanted to look
    > like Lemond on the bike. This required a really stretched out position on the bike. My arms are
    > long relative to my legs, so (since I had a stock frame) I needed a long stem. This gave me a
    > decent setup, but put my weight relatively far forward, which wasn't the best for fast downhills.
    > What I needed was a frame with a longer top tube, but I didn't care enough to get a custom frame.
    > Anyhow, I never got to be Lemond. But the really stretched out position probably contributed to
    > the neck problems I have now. Just make sure she's set up comfortably on whatever she chooses. She
    > should also be prepared to tweak the setup periodically as she gets more experienced and learns
    > what works for her.
    >
    > Steve

    There's definitely a continuum between the perfect racing bike, and being comfortable. The problem
    is it seems to take a few dozen hours of riding before you find where the like is on that continuum.

    Good to hear from you!

    Regards, Lester
     
  13. Lester Long

    Lester Long Guest

    "Nick Burns" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "RK" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > patch70 <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > > > If I remember correctly, aren't Klein & Trek made by the same people?
    If
    > > > so, the geometry is unlikely to be very different. Thus, go with the
    one
    > > > you find more comfortable.
    > >
    > > Lemonds are made by Trek, and the geometry is very different -- longer top-tube, more seattube
    > > setback, to accomodate the longer femur that professional racers tend to have.
    >
    > This is mostly true. The only time it was not true was when the Lemond
    brand
    > was purchased without any real design properties. IOW, they wanted the
    name
    > and the rest would come later, so they slapped some Lemond decals on existing Trek models but
    > measured them c-t while Trek normally measures
    c-c.
    > This made it look like the Lemond bike were "really long for the *femur*" (get over it Greg) and
    > it worked from a marketing standpoint. In defense
    of
    > Trek, they did have Greg pen some designs (or at least have the designers use some of his
    > published design preferences) and now they do have
    exclusive
    > geometry and design AFAIK.
    >
    > With regard to Klein, this company was purchased several years ago and
    Gary
    > Klein has thus far been able to maintain every aspect of his design uniqueness. This says good
    > things about both Trek and Klein, IMO.
    >
    > Still, Klein and Trek may use slightly different approaches, but they are going after the same
    > market do their fit is not going to be terribly different from one another, but the larger scale
    > of the Trek line does
    allow
    > the "WSF" models, which AFAIK are not available with Klein.
    >
    >
    > This thread is taking a *.tech flavor, so...I suggest if it continues
    along
    > these lines it should be cross-posted and \ or moved over. (Although I
    don't
    > care, since many tech issues are race related, so whatever you dudes
    want).

    Thanks for all the great replies to my thread!

    My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike. The WSF models are
    all too small for her, and thus she's confined to the men's models. I guess my question is a
    difficult one to answer, since both bikes are targeted to the same market.

    Regards, Lester
     
  14. On Sat, 27 Sep 2003 12:06:11 GMT, Lester Long wrote:
    > is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike.

    That sounds about right, but I think 58cm may be a better fit because of a slightly shorter top tube
    (generally, women have relatively longer legs). The height isn't *that* much of an issue.
     
  15. > My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike. The WSF models
    > are all too small for her, and thus she's confined
    to
    > the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer, since both bikes are targeted
    > to the same market.
    >
    > Regards, Lester

    Lester: The Klein & TREK product ride very differently; subtle changes in geometry product
    not-so-subtle changes in ride. With a Klein she'd go for a 58cm (the 61cm would have too-long a top
    tube), while TREK it very well might be a 60cm. Keep in mind that a 60cm TREK has a slightly-shorter
    top tube than a 58cm Klein (comparing a 60cm 2300 to a 58cm Klein Aura in this case)... yet the
    Klein has a slightly-longer wheelbase. There are a number of little things that add up to a
    significantly different ride. One isn't really better than the other, with the exception of fit
    considerations, and Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate, since
    there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.

    You are correct that there are no WSD (Women Specific Design) bikes in a large enough size for her;
    they generally fit up to about 5'7" or so.

    Your best bet is to have her ride each bike, making sure they're set up similarly. It wouldn't be a
    fair comparison to test-ride a Klein with a super-short stem and a TREK with a super-long one, and
    vice versa. Cockpit dimensions (distance from seat to bars, drop in height from seat to bars,
    distance from pedals to seat and setback of seat from bottom bracket) should all be set the same on
    each bike. That way she'll be evaluating the bike, not some random aspect of fit. And it will also
    show if one bike simply can't quite be made to fit right.

    --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
     
  16. Nick Burns

    Nick Burns Guest

    "Mike Jacoubowsky" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > > My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a
    60cm
    > > bike. The WSF models are all too small for her, and thus she's confined
    > to
    > > the men's models. I guess my question is a difficult one to answer,
    since
    > > both bikes are targeted to the same market.
    > >
    > > Regards, Lester
    >
    > Lester: The Klein & TREK product ride very differently; subtle changes in geometry product
    > not-so-subtle changes in ride. With a Klein she'd go for
    a
    > 58cm (the 61cm would have too-long a top tube), while TREK it very well might be a 60cm. Keep in
    > mind that a 60cm TREK has a slightly-shorter top tube than a 58cm Klein (comparing a 60cm 2300 to
    > a 58cm Klein Aura in this case)... yet the Klein has a slightly-longer wheelbase. There are a
    number
    > of little things that add up to a significantly different ride. One isn't really better than the
    > other, with the exception of fit considerations,
    and
    > Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,
    since
    > there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.
    >
    > You are correct that there are no WSD (Women Specific Design) bikes in a large enough size for
    > her; they generally fit up to about 5'7" or so.
    >
    > Your best bet is to have her ride each bike, making sure they're set up similarly. It wouldn't be
    > a fair comparison to test-ride a Klein with a super-short stem and a TREK with a super-long one,
    > and vice versa.
    Cockpit
    > dimensions (distance from seat to bars, drop in height from seat to bars, distance from pedals to
    > seat and setback of seat from bottom bracket)
    should
    > all be set the same on each bike. That way she'll be evaluating the bike, not some random aspect
    > of fit. And it will also show if one bike simply can't quite be made to fit right.
    >
    > --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
    >
    >

    I agree with Mike and would add that the Klein will be more stable. This also sometimes fills the
    needs of women that want rock solid linear stability at all speeds.

    The Trek is also good in these aspects of handling and someone that wants stable but quicker
    response to input may prefer the Trek.

    This is really a tough choice. For all of the differences, these two bikes IMO are after almost
    the same market and I think they (Trek) expect the material preference and brand issues to be the
    biggest differentiators (is that a word or did I make that up?). In spite of originating from
    very different approaches, these two bike over time have been honed to evolve in to almost the
    same niche.

    It really may come down to ride preference, appearance, or concerns over durability. I think they
    both have lifetime frame warranties (take note Justin), is that correct Mike?
     
  17. I have a Trek 5200 today and love it. I will never buy another roadbike that is not made in Carbon.

    --
    Perre

    You have to be smarter than a robot to reply.
     
  18. Lester Long wrote:

    > Thanks for all the great replies to my thread!
    >
    > My wife is 5'-11" and has a 34" inseam, and was told that she needs a 60cm bike. The WSF models
    > are all too small for her, and thus she's confined to the men's models. I guess my question is a
    > difficult one to answer, since both bikes are targeted to the same market.
    >
    > Regards, Lester

    I'm 6'2" with a 34" inseam and I ordered the 60cm 5200. The guy at the store mentioned that Treks
    tend to fit smaller than other bikes. I hope that the 60cm is right for me. I test drove a 58cm and
    that was too small, and I tried out a 61cm bike (not a Trek, as they didn't have any that large),
    and it felt too big.

    J. Spaceman
     
  19. Per LöWdin

    Per LöWdin Guest

    > Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,
    since
    > there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.

    Maybe for large women. However, it does not apply to the small Kleins. My wife rides a Quantum 48cm
    and an xs Adroit. She loves both. Only major drawback is the integrated headset the Kleins came with
    for years. When they turn bad it is not easy to service them. Not even the Klein dealers have parts
    in stock : (

    Per
     
  20. Matt O'Toole

    Matt O'Toole Guest

    "Per Löwdin" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

    > > Kleins tend to be, ahem, female hostile for many. That's unfortunate,
    > since
    > > there's something about the visual presentation of the Klein that draws women to them.
    >
    > Maybe for large women. However, it does not apply to the small Kleins. My wife rides a Quantum
    > 48cm and an xs Adroit. She loves both.

    I know a couple of pixie gals who love their Kleins too.

    > Only major drawback is the integrated headset the Kleins came with for years. When they turn bad
    > it is not easy to service them. Not even the Klein dealers have parts in stock : (

    Those suck. Unfortunately, they're becoming more prevalent. However, you should be able to get a
    retrofit kit, to install a standard headset.

    Matt O.
     
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