Knee advice + Motorists ignoring red lights

[Neil Brown]

Hello all, de-lurking, many thanks all for the fine reading material, on
behalf of all cycling lurkers

I've just been unhappily forced to commute by car for the last fortnight (for the first time in
about a year), due to a spill from my bike after hitting a protruding bit of kerb, and a
consequently hammered knee, today was the first day it was bendy enough to start cycling again
(hooray! - it's great to be back out in the fresh air).

Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?

The other part of this question is due to the fact that when traveling by bike, I'm able to avoid
most major road junctions, and when I come to a tricky one, I'll get off and go on foot - having got
hit last year by someone trundling through an amber light I'm quite cautious - so when having to
drive for a couple of weeks I was _amazed_ at the number of motorists that just _drive_ through red
lights - not the classic Amber Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of car drivers that
assume that red lights simply don't apply to them. Any thoughts?

Cheers all,

Neil

 

[David Hansen]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:35:22 -0000 someone who may be "Neil Brown"
<neilbrown*deletethisbittoreply*[email protected]> wrote this:-

>so when having to drive for a couple of weeks I was _amazed_ at the number of motorists that just
>_drive_ through red lights - not the classic Amber Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of
>car drivers that assume that red lights simply don't apply to them. Any thoughts?

You must be lying We have been told by numerous people that it is only every cyclist that ignores
red lights. Motorists would never do such a thing.

--
David Hansen, Edinburgh | PGP email preferred-key number F566DA0E I will always explain revoked
keys, unless the UK government prevents me using the RIP Act 2000.

 

[Frobnitz]

"Neil Brown" <neilbrown*deletethisbittoreply*[email protected]> wrote in message
>
> Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?

Use lower gears and keep your cadence high - the less pressure you have to exert the better. Avoid
trying to charge up hills - again use a low gear and spin.

E

 

[Michael Macclan]

On Fri, 20 Feb 2004 13:35:22 -0000, Neil Brown wrote:

>
> Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?
>

1. Use a higher cadence. (90rpm or so)
2. Make sure your saddle is the right height.
3. Pedal smoothly.
4. Keep your knees warm.
5. Make sure your pedals/shoes are set up correctly.
6. If using clipless pedals use the ones with float.
7. Make sure the crank arms and pedal spindles aren't bent.

--
Michael MacClancy Random putdown - "They never open their mouths without subtracting from the sum of
human knowledge." - Thomas Brackett Reed www.macclancy.demon.co.uk www.macclancy.co.uk

 

[Dave Larrington]

Neil Brown wrote:

> when having to drive for a couple of weeks I was _amazed_ at the number of motorists that just
> _drive_ through red lights - not the classic Amber Gamblers, there are apparently a large number
> of car drivers that assume that red lights simply don't apply to them. Any thoughts?

Yes. You were obviously having some kind of nightmare. It doesn't happen in Real Life(tm). The
Disciples of Stan, er, Sm+th say so, so it /must/ be true.

--

Dave Larrington - http://www.legslarry.beerdrinkers.co.uk/
===========================================================
Editor - British Human Power Club Newsletter
http://www.bhpc.org.uk/
===========================================================

 

[Vincent Wilcox]

Neil Brown wrote:
> Hello all, de-lurking, many thanks all for the fine reading material, on behalf of all cycling
> lurkers
>
> I've just been unhappily forced to commute by car for the last fortnight (for the first time in
> about a year), due to a spill from my bike after hitting a protruding bit of kerb, and a
> consequently hammered knee, today was the first day it was bendy enough to start cycling again
> (hooray! - it's great to be back out in the fresh air).
>
> Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?
>
> The other part of this question is due to the fact that when traveling by bike, I'm able to avoid
> most major road junctions, and when I come to a tricky one, I'll get off and go on foot - having
> got hit last year by someone trundling through an amber light I'm quite cautious - so when having
> to drive for a couple of weeks I was _amazed_ at the number of motorists that just _drive_ through
> red lights - not the classic Amber Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of car drivers
> that assume that red lights simply don't apply to them. Any thoughts?
>
>

Drivers don't jump lights they "stray unwittingly" through them. As opposed to cyclists who
"sail" through them. Does that mean horses "rocket" thrugh them and motobikes "spank" through
them? One wonders.

 

[Peter Clinch]

Neil Brown wrote:

> Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?

First up a note that knees are complicated things and there's no such thing as advice applicable to
everyone. But having said that, a good general rule of thumb is that cycling at higher cadences in
lower gears will generally put less strain on them than pushing big gears slowly with lots of force.
Spinning lower gears is generally Good for your knees. Also the case that if you can even out the
power input with clipless pedals things tend to work better IME. Make sure any such pedals have
plenty of rotation and float in the connection between pedal and shoe so they don't force your knees
a way they don't want to go. Some people with bad knees suffer from any clipless they've tried,
where others benefit, so be more wary of this as advice than the simple spinning low gears.

> Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of car drivers that assume that red lights simply
> don't apply to them. Any thoughts?

I often see red lights that don't apply to people for the first few seconds. <irony>But that's
different of course, because everyone knows that's okay</irony>.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Dirtylitterboxo]

>Hello all, de-lurking, many thanks all for the fine reading material, on
>behalf of all cycling lurkers

Hello de-lurker

>I've just been unhappily forced to commute by car for the last fortnight (for the first time in
>about a year), due to a spill from my bike after hitting a protruding bit of kerb, and a
>consequently hammered knee, today was the first day it was bendy enough to start cycling again
>(hooray! - it's great to be back out in the fresh air).

Sounds nasty - but I'm glad you are able to cycle again.

>Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?

I suppose the main advice is to place as little strain as possible on it, whilst at the same time
exercising it to keep it mobile. When I was using tradtitional [edals (with or without toeclips) I
had a lot of pain in my knees once I stopped cycling. I'd get off the bike after a nice hour or so
out on it and then start hobbling about like some old biddy in her dotage ;-)

I changed to clipless pedals (I use Look ones) and now I don't get the post-cycling pain in my knees
I used to get. I wonder if this would work for you (if you aren't already using clipless that is)?
Using clipless definitely puts less strain on my knee joints.

>The other part of this question is due to the fact that when traveling by bike, I'm able to avoid
>most major road junctions, and when I come to a tricky one, I'll get off and go on foot - having
>got hit last year by someone trundling through an amber light I'm quite cautious - so when having
>to drive for a couple of weeks I was _amazed_ at the number of motorists that just _drive_ through
>red lights - not the classic Amber Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of car drivers
>that assume that red lights simply don't apply to them. Any thoughts?

Obviously your knee injury has affected your vision ;-) Why? well, loads of posters from uk.tosspot,
sorry, uk.transport and various disciples of the Church of Clarkson *insist* that motorists *never*
do such a thing. It's only cyclists that do this jumping of red lights apparently. Your affected
vision is similar to my own, as I see motorists jumping lights in the same way. Ah ha! Suddenly it
all becomes clear. What we are seeing are cyclists masquerading as motorists. Cyclists obviously in
disguise out to try to give the much maligned motorists of Albion a bad name

Anyhow - best wishes in looking after that knee.

Cheers, helen s

--This is an invalid email address to avoid spam-- to get correct one remove dependency on fame &
fortune h*$el*$$e**nd***$o$ts***i*$*$m**m$$o*n**[email protected]$*$a$$o**l.c**$*$om$$

 

[Dwb]

"Vincent Wilcox" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> Drivers don't jump lights they "stray unwittingly" through them. As opposed to cyclists who "sail"
> through them. Does that mean horses "rocket" thrugh them and motobikes "spank" through them? One
> wonders.

"Pray" is more appropriate on a motorbike

 

[W K]

"Frobnitz" <[email protected]@@blueyonder.ocbackwards.uk> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "Neil Brown" <neilbrown*deletethisbittoreply*[email protected]> wrote in message
> >
> > Can anyone give me any pointers to good knee-care advice for cyclists?
>
> Use lower gears and keep your cadence high - the less pressure you have to exert the better. Avoid
> trying to charge up hills - again use a low gear and spin.

I was going to say that, and include advice to keep them warm if its tendon trouble. But then I
noticed he's come off his bike, so its not your usual.

Knee pads? I'd wear them if I was deliberately trying to find the limits of my bike, looks quite fun
when skateboarders (or peter kaye) go sliding about on their knees.

 

[Neil Brown]

Hello all,

Many thanks for the good knee advice, very much appreciated. I did commute 15 miles each way last
year and wondered if this would give me knee problems, that and the mountaineering, but it seemed OK
- but eventually I ripped a tendon from cleaning up the kitchen floor - I'm sure theres a lesson
there - that and the recent spill (same knee) and I'm suddenly aware of how much I took them for
granted (knees)

re: Lights, glad it's not just me. Scary things these cars, 'specially here in Leicester, traffic is
heavy _and_ fast.

Cheers all and ta again, off for a lurk and a cycle now,

Neil

 

[Peter B]

"Neil Brown" <neilbrown*deletethisbittoreply*[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...
> there are apparently a large number of car drivers that assume that red lights simply don't apply
> to them. Any thoughts?

You should have seen the dozy old bag I saw last night when driving home. There is a newish local
junction on what passes for a ring road where I live which I use every day. Apparently it was
designated an "accident black spot" after being open a few years and expensive remedial work was
carried out to ensure that all movements are controlled by traffic lights so in practice if all obey
the lights there is no conflict of vehicles turning right across oncoming traffic, and there is
sufficient red dwell to ensure no-one obeying the lights gets left in no-mans land. However, it's
still regarded as an "accident" (cough) prone junction for some reason, and as a regular user the
reason can only be red-light jumping, which of course as a motorist I can see but if on my bike I'd
be hallucinating.

So anyway......the Old Bag not only ran the light, the others were clearly green, but finding
herself in no-mans land started to reverse into the now moving cross traffic then realising her
error went forward, then back a bit and finally stopped. Eee, yer can't beat motorists for
entertainment ;-)

--
Regards, Pete

 

[Peter Clinch]

Neil Brown wrote:

> Many thanks for the good knee advice, very much appreciated. I did commute 15 miles each way
> last year and wondered if this would give me knee problems, that and the mountaineering, but it
> seemed OK

I had shocking knees from the hills, but I've found lots of cycling at reasonably high cadences
(never measured mine, but I spin much lower gears than I used to and never bother standing up any
more, even on bikes where I can) has made them very much *better* than they used to be. By building
up the muscles either side of the joint you support it more effectively and take some of the strain
on muscles rather than just joints.

> re: Lights, glad it's not just me. Scary things these cars, 'specially here in Leicester, traffic
> is heavy _and_ fast.

Been a long time since I was there, so I doubt my experience of the place (did my BSc there) would
count for much useful comment. But for lots of Handy Tips on safe cycling on Real Roads check out
John Franklin's "Cyclecraft" if you haven't already.

Pete.
--
Peter Clinch University of Dundee Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 33637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital
Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK net [email protected]
http://www.dundee.ac.uk/~pjclinch/

 

[Anonymous]

Neil Brown posted ...

> The other part of this question is due to the fact that when traveling by bike, I'm able to avoid
> most major road junctions, and when I come to a tricky one, I'll get off and go on foot - having
> got hit last year by someone trundling through an amber light I'm quite cautious - so when having
> to drive for a couple of weeks I was _amazed_ at the number of motorists that just _drive_ through
> red lights - not the classic Amber Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of car drivers
> that assume that red lights simply don't apply to them. Any thoughts?

And the car drivers would say the same about cyclists .. and lorry drivers ... and bus drivers
.. etc etc.

Most road users have something they dislike so notice a lot. I, for instance, dislike seeing people
'cutting up' others, yet seem to see it often. My wife dislikes seeing HGV's in towns, so points
them out at every opportunity ...

Every sphere of road use has it's prats ... not just car driving, or cycling ..

--
Paul

 

[Nick]

"dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email protected]> wrote in
message news:[email protected]...

> Obviously your knee injury has affected your vision ;-) Why? well, loads
of
> posters from uk.tosspot, sorry, uk.transport and various disciples of the Church of Clarkson
> *insist* that motorists *never* do such a thing. It's
only
> cyclists that do this jumping of red lights apparently.

A very enlightened view that will really help foster good relations between cyclists and
car drivers !

Your attitude is really no better than that of the Times journalist. So it's alright for cyclists to
ignore red lights because car drivers do it as well?

Should this NG perhaps be renamed 'uk.cyclingadvocacy.anti-car'?

 

[Anonymous]

"Nick" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "dirtylitterboxofferingstospammers" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]
> m19.aol.com...
>
> > Obviously your knee injury has affected your vision ;-) Why? well, loads
> of
> > posters from uk.tosspot, sorry, uk.transport and various disciples of
the
> > Church of Clarkson *insist* that motorists *never* do such a thing. It's
> only
> > cyclists that do this jumping of red lights apparently.
>
> A very enlightened view that will really help foster good relations
between
> cyclists and car drivers !
>
> Your attitude is really no better than that of the Times journalist. So it's alright for cyclists
> to ignore red lights because car drivers do it
as
> well?
>
> Should this NG perhaps be renamed 'uk.cyclingadvocacy.anti-car'?

Now I'm confused. Who's talking about cyclists ignoring red lights? Certainly neither the OP nor the
PSF. So why do you choose to imagine that they have said anything about it, let alone condoning it?

clive

 

[James Annan]

Peter Clinch wrote:

>> Gamblers, there are apparently a large number of car drivers that assume that red lights simply
>> don't apply to them. Any thoughts?
>
>
> I often see red lights that don't apply to people for the first few seconds. <irony>But that's
> different of course, because everyone knows that's okay</irony>.

They certainly sail through them in Japan - but then again, so do I! There are so many of the bloody
things (on a permanent cycle even when there is no traffic on the minor road) that I'd never get
anywhere if I stopped for all of them.

James

 

[Tony Raven]

James Annan wrote:
>
> They certainly sail through them in Japan - but then again, so do I! There are so many of the
> bloody things (on a permanent cycle even when there is no traffic on the minor road) that I'd
> never get anywhere if I stopped for all of them.
>

The best ones I found in Japan were at a t-junction with a one way street leading away from the
junction forming the vertical of the T. They had absolutely no role other than to stop all traffic
at regular intervals.

Tony

 

[James Annan]

Tony Raven wrote:

> The best ones I found in Japan were at a t-junction with a one way street leading away from the
> junction forming the vertical of the T. They had absolutely no role other than to stop all traffic
> at regular intervals.

Ah, that's to keep the traffic flow synchronized with all the other junctions. It's why Japan can't
change the clocks for summer-time, apparently. Still doesn't explain why we are in the wrong time
zone entirely, though (solar noon is 11:25am)

James

 

[Tony Raven]

James Annan wrote:
>
> Ah, that's to keep the traffic flow synchronized with all the other junctions.

Traffic flow - what's that then?

Tony