Knee damage?



On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?
 
J

Jim Ford

Guest
* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as [email protected] <[email protected]> descended on a shaft
* of golden sunlight, and announced:

> On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
> pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
> starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
> however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat

<snip>

I had a similar thing a couple of years ago in Glen Coe. The knee was fine
going uphill, but going down was very painfull to the extent that I ended up
going backwards to ease the pain. The knee was tender going down stairs for
some months, but last year (2004) it didn't give me any problems, but there
seems to be a slight weakness remaining to the extent that I find myself
favouring my left leg in any high step ups.

Jim Ford
 
B

BeauGeste

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> I'm not looking for specific
> medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if

so
> what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
> weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?


I started having knee problems some years ago but managed to get round
this fairly successfully by the use of those elastic-bandage-type
athletic knee supports, the ones with holes in them to centre the
kneecaps. These keep the kneecap from sliding about sideways whilst
you're scampering up and down the hills and I believe it's this
sideways/twisting motion which causes the problems. At least that's
what someone told me and the above solution has worked out ok for me.

You need to get decent supports though and make sure they're the right
size. I forget what make mine are but I know I paid the shocking price
of about £17 each for them at Tescos, which seemed quite a lot to me
at the time - they have lasted well though. Slight drawbacks are they
can be sweaty in summer and they do have a tendency to cut into the
back of your thighs a bit - but these are only minor discomforts which
can be ignored most of the time.

Apart from that I'd add that there are definite advantages to cod liver
oil which does seem to keep the joints working properly. Also someone
recently recommended glucosamine sulphate supplements to me as being
beneficial for the joints - your pal could try that.
 
S

spamfrog

Guest
Get your friend to visit his GP. Even if they cannot / will not help, they
should be able to advise what's causing it. I have a different problem with
each of my knees ! Often surgery is the only cure however they may be able
to get by with careful use of supports, Ibuprofen and walking poles.

--
Muzz
reply to uglyduck NOT spamfrog
 
D

Dave Fawthrop

Guest
On 2 Jan 2005 15:27:51 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

| On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
| pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
| starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
| however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
| ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
| but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
| physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
| hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
| Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
| medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
| what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
| weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?

Depends what the damage is.
A month hobbling about with *no* hills (plus Ibuprofen a non prescription
anti inflammatory) has cured my knees, lots of times over the last <mumble>
years.

--
Dave F
 
N

Neil Tonks

Guest
I had a similar problem a few years back, which was cured instantly when I
bought a new pair of boots!

Not that the purchase was in direct response to the problem - the old boots
were worn out and needed replacing anyway - but the pain (which had dogged
me on every walk for weeks) simply never happened with the new boots.

This could well have been a coincidence, of course. Indeed, I toyed with the
idea of wearing the old boots again to see if the problem recurred but in
the end I decided against it.

Might be worth a try, especially his boots have been around for a while!

--
Neil

Visit my Peak District walking website - www.peakwalking.co.uk

<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
> pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
> starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
> however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
> ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
> but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
> physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
> hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
> Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
> medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
> what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
> weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?
>
 
S

spongebob

Guest
<[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
> pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon

after
> starting the descent off the mountain.

<snip>
On one of our expeds to Snowdonia I was walking back off Moel Siabod
with the group and my knees became so bad that I missed most of the
beer session which was about a mile away at the nearest pub. I did
manage to get there later on, but I was in considerable pain that day.
A visit to the doctor (and x ray dept) showed that I had osteo
arthritis in my knees. I had visions of this being the beginning of
the end of my hill walking days, but I bought a couple of walking
poles and they seem to have done the trick. I only use them for
descents, as this is where the problem really begins. Taking my time
and letting the poles take the strain seems to have done the trick.
TBH, things haven't deteriorated and I look forward to many more hill
walks.

Graham
 
R

Roger

Guest
The message <[email protected]>
from [email protected] contains these words:

> On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
> pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
> starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
> however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
> ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
> but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
> physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
> hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
> Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
> medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
> what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
> weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?


I have had knee problems on and off for at least 30 years. It used to be
usually downhill only but thinking back the first really bad
manifestation that I can remember brought my last attempt on the Welsh
3000s to a premature end going up Penyrole-wen in 1976 (but I must have
suffeeed going down the North Ridge of Tryfan). In the 80s it started
coming back regularly in winter (brought on by the cold) and during the
early 90s I abandoned hill walking almost completely after the NHS
specialist I was eventually referred to concluded that I was much too
mobile to waste any NHS resources on. However in recent years I have
largely avoided the problem by the simple expedient of not doing very
much and when it has occurred I have had a long break (months sometimes)
before returning to hill walking. On second thoughts what may have been
the clincher is that throughout the 90s I had a dog so had to take a
limited amount of exercise several times a day and each and every day.
Since the dog died I seem to be more prone to knee trouble but that
could just be old age catching up with me.

--
Roger Chapman so far this year nothing. Last year 139 summits
New - 110 (Marilyns 14, Sweats 5, Outlying Fells 98)
Repeats - 29 (Marilyns 11, Sweats 21, Wainwrights 16, Outlying Fells 2)
 
C

Col

Guest
Hi your friends problem sounds like medial ligament strain and the usual
advice given for that is rest for a couple of days and anti-inflammatory
meds then gentle exercise building back up to their usual regime. .Physio
can be of some help too.
Hope this helps,
col xx
"Neil Tonks" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> I had a similar problem a few years back, which was cured instantly when I
> bought a new pair of boots!
>
> Not that the purchase was in direct response to the problem - the old

boots
> were worn out and needed replacing anyway - but the pain (which had dogged
> me on every walk for weeks) simply never happened with the new boots.
>
> This could well have been a coincidence, of course. Indeed, I toyed with

the
> idea of wearing the old boots again to see if the problem recurred but in
> the end I decided against it.
>
> Might be worth a try, especially his boots have been around for a while!
>
> --
> Neil
>
> Visit my Peak District walking website - www.peakwalking.co.uk
>
> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]
> > On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
> > pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
> > starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
> > however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
> > ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
> > but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
> > physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
> > hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
> > Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
> > medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
> > what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
> > weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?
> >

>
>
 
J

Jhimmy

Guest
I've had the same problem for the last 5 years. However, it seems to be
going away. Interestingly, Neil Tonks posting has just had me thinking and
I wonder if my left knee problems started with my old boots.

My problem started on a specific day, I was walking fast through the Lairig
Ghru late evening (we had no torches and didn't want to get stranded in
there), the next day my knee locked up. The boots I wore weren't really up
to the job for long rocky paths, but I made the decision to use a
lightweight pair.

Over the next few years I was OK going uphill, but downhill was very
painful. Recently, I've started to excerise my legs more, and a few months
in a Gym, taking it easy on my knees seems to have worked a treat.

Jhimmy
 
C

Col

Guest
lol nice one dave!
col x
"Dave Fawthrop" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]
> On 2 Jan 2005 15:27:51 -0800, [email protected] wrote:
>
> An old saying:
> There are two kinds of walkers.
> Those who have bad knees
> Those who are going to have bad knees.
>
> I blame it on evolution.
> We would be OK walking on all fours ;-)
>
>
> --
> Dave F
 
B

Blippie

Guest
>... next day my knee locked up.

Possibly more likely to be a cartilage problem rather than a ligament
probloem in this case.

There's a cresent shaped pillow of cartilage in the knee that can rupture
causing this sort of pain (i.e. pain when descending - leg straight and
bearing weight - but otherwise not too painful, just stiff) and usually (not
always), if there is a lot of swelling, causing the joint to lock.

Cheers

Blippie
--
Ten minutes of this rain will do more good in half an hour than a fortnight
of ordinary rain in a month.
 
A

Adrian Godwin

Guest
[email protected] wrote:
> On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
> pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
> starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
> however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
> ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
> but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
> physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
> hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
> Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
> medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
> what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
> weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?
>


I had something that sounds similar (hard to locate, one knee only,
very dependent on how leg is placed) and a physio diagnosed it as
ITBS : ilio-tibial band [friction] syndrome. This is better known
as a runners problem, caused in my case by poor gait and walking too
far, too soon. The IT band is a ligament that runs under the kneecap
and can rub against it. Friction causes inflammation and swelling,
which increases the friction ..

A shaped insole to avoid me placing my foot badly, together with
suitable stretches seem to have improved things and I haven't suffered
again despite much more strenuous walks. But note that some people
have much more severe problems.

It isn't advised to try to 'walk through it' : that will make it
worse. Get-you-home strategies include walking stiff-legged (don't
bend the knee) and putting an elastic strap below the kneecap (this
reduces the tendency of the IT band to rub against inside of kneecap).

Get your friend to see a sports physio ASAP.

-adrian
 
J

Jim Ford

Guest
* The air of uk.rec.walking was filled with the delicate perfume
* of violets, as Blippie <> descended on a shaft
* of golden sunlight, and announced:
> >... next day my knee locked up.

>
> Possibly more likely to be a cartilage problem rather than a ligament
> probloem in this case.
>
> There's a cresent shaped pillow of cartilage in the knee that can rupture
> causing this sort of pain (i.e. pain when descending - leg straight and
> bearing weight - but otherwise not too painful, just stiff) and usually (not
> always), if there is a lot of swelling, causing the joint to lock.


The odd thing about when I had this sort of knee trouble, was that it only
hurt when going downhill and then only as the weight came _off_ the joint,
not when the load went on. I still can't figure out what could have been
going on!

Jim Ford
 
K

Keith Jones

Guest
On 2 Jan 2005 15:27:51 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

>On two consecutive trips now my walking partner has suffered extreme
>pain near his left knee (internal but near the offside) very soon after
>starting the descent off the mountain. No problems going uphill
>however. Once started the pain doesn't go away even when on flat
>ground. He finds it subsides slightly if he walks with his leg twisted
>but that begins to cause other problems. He's going to see a doctor or
>physio about it as soon as he can after the holidays are finished. I
>hope he gets successful treatment as otherwise hill climbs, especially
>Munros, will be out of the question. I'm not looking for specific
>medical advice, but has anyone here suffered similar problems and if so
>what did you have to do to cure it? Could this be related to just
>weight and fitness or could it be something requiring surgery?


Have a look at
http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/index.php
a virtual therapist, for a rough idea, but if in doubt go to a
"proper" physiotherapist, preferably a sports-orientated one.

Keith Jones
"Sunny" Rhyl
 
C

Chris Gilbert

Guest
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

> Slight problem, walking is not a sport. *according to them*


Show them the colour of your money and I assure you that it will
rapidly assume enough sports-like qualities to get you treatment.

I never bother my GP with injuries these days. I go straight to
my local sports injury clinic. Well worth the price.

Chris
 
C

Chris Gilbert

Guest
Dave Fawthrop wrote:

> Slight problem, walking is not a sport. *according to them*


Show them the colour of your money and I assure you that it will
rapidly assume enough sports-like qualities to get you treatment.

I never bother my GP with injuries these days. I go straight to
my local sports injury clinic. Well worth the price.

Chris
 
D

Dave Fawthrop

Guest
On 2 Jan 2005 15:27:51 -0800, [email protected] wrote:

An old saying:
There are two kinds of walkers.
Those who have bad knees
Those who are going to have bad knees.

I blame it on evolution.
We would be OK walking on all fours ;-)


--
Dave F
 
P

Peewiglet

Guest
On Tue, 04 Jan 2005 07:17:09 +0000, Dave Fawthrop
<[email protected]> wrote:

>On Mon, 03 Jan 2005 22:32:48 GMT, Keith Jones <[email protected]>
>wrote:
>
>
>| Have a look at
>| http://www.sportsinjuryclinic.net/cybertherapist/index.php
>| a virtual therapist, for a rough idea, but if in doubt go to a
>| "proper" physiotherapist, preferably a sports-orientated one.
>
>Slight problem, walking is not a sport. *according to them*


It seems to me that walking is an activity rather than a sport, but
that's what physios are for :)


Best wishes,
--
,,
(**)PeeWiglet~~
/ \ / \ pee AT [guessthisbit].co.uk