knee pain

Discussion in 'General Fitness' started by hintofsmile, Dec 30, 2005.

  1. hintofsmile

    hintofsmile Guest

    I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
    another client. Let me know what you think:

    I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
    found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
    lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."

    On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
    general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
    can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
    pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.

    I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
    back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
    deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
    back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
    bothered.

    However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
    stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
    but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
    next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
    to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
    speed with a slight limp.

    I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
    nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).

    Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
    legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
    knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
    I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
    above.
     
    Tags:


  2. Curt James

    Curt James Guest

    Perhaps lacking that hint of a smile, hintofsmile
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
    >another client. Let me know what you think:
    >
    >I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
    >found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
    >lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."
    >
    >On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
    >general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
    >can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
    >pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.
    >
    >I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
    >back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
    >deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
    >back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
    >bothered.
    >
    >However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
    >stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
    >but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
    >next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
    >to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
    >speed with a slight limp.
    >
    >I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
    >nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).
    >
    >Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
    >legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
    >knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
    >I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
    >above.


    I hate it when sh!t's not snipped, but I'm leaving your entire message
    in place because maybe someone else will see it who has missed the
    original. Aaaaanyway, how old are you? (That seems to be my first
    question of late with every response I make.)

    The reason I ask is that, as a 43-year-old, I have occasional knee
    pain, however I've never gone to a doctor or chiropractor for their
    advice.

    I do visit a fantastic chiro in Lemoyne, PA, USA - Brian Becker of
    Becker Chiropractic, but that's been - fortunately - only for upper
    back/shoulder pain. The pain (on my initial visit) was great, imo, and
    radiated to my right shoulder. Chiro was like magic. The pain
    literally disappeared after his first manipulation. It was like a
    lightswitch being flicked. Pain? Gone!

    So, I'm a fan of chiro, however I'd also be skeptical, though, that
    the knee pain would come from your spine. (Then again, I do believe
    that shoulder pain certainly radiated from my spine, so...)

    Can you clarify the dates? This injury took place in June or July of
    2005 - this year, right?

    How much time have you taken off from lifting? Sometimes rest is
    required. When I get the occasional knee twinge, I'll lay off the
    squats. And, yes, the twinge has resulted in some limping at times.
    I've never gone the accu, chiro, x-ray route, but then my pain may not
    have been as severe as your pain.

    I agree with you on your suspicion or thoughts like, "HE JUST WANTS MY
    MONEY!" wrt the chiropractor, however I guess it wouldn't hurt to
    follow his recommendations - especially if you have health coverage.

    I would have taken a rest from training, however, initially, before
    seeking out the docs.

    And, yeah, I asked the age question as it's important to realize that
    forty is different from twenty. Where have the years gone? Regardless,
    *Eat, Sleep, Train, Repeat* still applies! Best of luck and please
    report back on your progress.

    --
     
  3. Well dumbass, did he also give you treatment options? Why ask these
    simple neandrethals? They can't stop abusing themselves long enough to
    reply.
    Listen to your chiros advice.
     
  4. spodosaurus

    spodosaurus Guest

    hintofsmile wrote:
    > I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me


    Almost certainly. Most of chiropractic has no scientific basis beyond
    that taken from legitimate physiotherapists. Has he tried to tell you he
    can cure your kid's ADHD by 'manipulating the plates of his skull' yet?
    That'll cure the kid...of everything, including living.

    > just so he can keep
    > another client.


    That's the thing with chiropractic: it only works as long as you keep
    coming back over and over again, kinda like a little bit of improper
    physiotherapy and a lot of placebo. There is a minority of really good
    chiropractors out there, but given the proportion of bad to good, odds
    are yours is a bad one.

    > Let me know what you think:
    >
    > I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray


    Probably completely unnecessary for you, but it'll help keep his pockets
    well lined.

    > and
    > found "right sacroiliac joint fixation


    I hope he wasn't x-raying your knees to find this...? It's also BS:
    sacroiliac joints that are not pretty darn well fixed are a recipy for pain.

    > causing bio-mechanical strain to
    > lower extremities.


    And exactly how was this happening?

    > Subluxation of 5th lumbar." On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
    > general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg.


    While subluxations are kinda the chiropractic version of the bogey man,
    used to frighten clients into unnecessary and costly fake treatments,
    what you describe could be serious, and seriously aggrivated by
    chiropractic manipulation. Take the x-rays to a medical doctor. If the
    vertebrae is wonky enough to stuff with your legs, and it would have to
    be EXTREMELY off in most cases, you could be having some spinal cord
    compression.

    > While I
    > can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
    > pain,


    Generally it's the sciatic nerve that causes the leg shooting pain, not
    the SI joint. SI joint shooting pain feels like someone is pushing a
    nail into your SI joint.

    > I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.


    See a real doctor.

    > I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
    > back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
    > deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
    > back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
    > bothered.
    >
    > However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
    > stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
    > but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
    > next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
    > to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
    > speed with a slight limp.


    Could very well be a back problem, especially considering you've said
    your "legs have been weaker and unsteady in
    general". See a doctor.

    >
    > I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
    > nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).


    See a rheumatologist. Orthopaedic surgeons don't see anything wrong
    unless they can operate on it :)

    > Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
    > legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
    > knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
    > I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
    > above.


    See a rheumatologist. A chiropractor could do a lot more harm than just
    lightening your wallet.

    Cheers,

    Ari


    --
    spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

    I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
    neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
    hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
    marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
    transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
    http://www.abmdr.org.au/
    http://www.marrow.org/
     
  5. Curt James

    Curt James Guest

    spodosaurus <[email protected]_yahoo_.com> wrote:

    <snip>
    >That's the thing with chiropractic: it only works as long as you keep
    >coming back over and over again, kinda like a little bit of improper
    >physiotherapy and a lot of placebo. There is a minority of really good
    >chiropractors out there, but given the proportion of bad to good, odds
    >are yours is a bad one.

    <snip>

    Ari, woah. Where do you cull that negative opinion. And how do you
    verify or define *a minority of really good chiropractors*?

    Perhaps I've just been very lucky in finding a chiropractor who I
    consider is /a good one/.

    The first visit was courtesy of a coupon in a local coupon clipper
    magazine. Didn't cost me a nickel. It worked. Immediately pain relief.
    And I wasn't encouraged to come back over and over again.

    I go very irregularly. I'd love to know how many times I've gone, but
    I wouldn't be surprised if it is only a total of ten times over the
    last several years.

    Chiropactic never had any appeal to me although family members did
    visit a man named Dr. Mudryk (spelling) in Clay, PA, USA. Just seemed
    like hocus pocus, but I'm a believer now and would encourage anyone to
    visit one in their area depending on what their ailment is.

    Compound fracture? Probably not.

    Lower back pain? Probably so.

    ADHD in yer kid? Probably not.

    Pain radiating to your shoulder? Absolutely.

    Common sense would seem to apply rather than a negative outlook based
    on a lack of experience. Or have you been to all the chiropractors in
    your area with, sadly, negative outcomes?

    --
     
  6. spodosaurus

    spodosaurus Guest

    Curt James wrote:
    > spodosaurus <[email protected]_yahoo_.com> wrote:
    >
    > <snip>
    >
    >>That's the thing with chiropractic: it only works as long as you keep
    >>coming back over and over again, kinda like a little bit of improper
    >>physiotherapy and a lot of placebo. There is a minority of really good
    >>chiropractors out there, but given the proportion of bad to good, odds
    >>are yours is a bad one.

    >
    > <snip>
    >
    > Ari, woah. Where do you cull that negative opinion. And how do you
    > verify or define *a minority of really good chiropractors*?
    >


    I don't fall for cultish pseudo science 'homeopathic' type cultish BS.

    > Perhaps I've just been very lucky in finding a chiropractor who I
    > consider is /a good one/.
    >


    I found a good one once. There was still a smattering of chiro BS, but
    he was a good one.

    > The first visit was courtesy of a coupon in a local coupon clipper
    > magazine. Didn't cost me a nickel. It worked. Immediately pain relief.
    > And I wasn't encouraged to come back over and over again.
    >


    Then you probably found a good one. Most recommend 'regular chiropractic
    adjustments to ensure proper nerve conduction and good health', sorta
    like narcotics peddlers who get you hooked on a transient feeling of
    relief and then keep you coming back.

    > I go very irregularly. I'd love to know how many times I've gone, but
    > I wouldn't be surprised if it is only a total of ten times over the
    > last several years.
    >
    > Chiropactic never had any appeal to me although family members did
    > visit a man named Dr. Mudryk (spelling) in Clay, PA, USA. Just seemed
    > like hocus pocus, but I'm a believer now and would encourage anyone to
    > visit one in their area depending on what their ailment is.


    You should also encourage them to be wary, especially with children.
    That adjusting the skull plates bit is an actual line from cultish chiros.

    >
    > Compound fracture? Probably not.


    Why not, one tried to 'fix' my broken hip with that clicky device gimick
    that does nothing.

    >
    > Lower back pain? Probably so.


    A good chiro will give you exercises and such to help keep you healthy
    out of his office for this after your visit.

    >
    > ADHD in yer kid? Probably not.
    >
    > Pain radiating to your shoulder? Absolutely.
    >


    As above with the low back pain.

    > Common sense would seem to apply rather than a negative outlook based
    > on a lack of experience. Or have you been to all the chiropractors in
    > your area with, sadly, negative outcomes?


    No, just on a couple of continents as well as with negative experiences
    from friends and family. Out of it all, there was that one good one, a
    long long time ago in a country far, far away.




    --
    spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

    I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
    neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
    hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
    marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
    transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
    http://www.abmdr.org.au/
    http://www.marrow.org/
     
  7. spodosaurus

    spodosaurus Guest

    I should also add that a chiropractor has absolutely no business taking
    or ordering x-rays. They are not trained radiologists and will miss
    serious health issues. X-rays at a chiros office are used to line their
    pockets. If they really want x-rays, have them work with your GP to
    order them and get them properly evaluated. That one good chiro I
    mentioned, he used x-rays ordered by a doctor and evaluated by a
    radiologist. I'm not sure which qualification he got first,
    physiotherapist or chiropractor.

    Cheers,

    Ari


    --
    spammage trappage: remove the underscores to reply

    I'm going to die rather sooner than I'd like. I tried to protect my
    neighbours from crime, and became the victim of it. Complications in
    hospital following this resulted in a serious illness. I now need a bone
    marrow transplant. Many people around the world are waiting for a marrow
    transplant, too. Please volunteer to be a marrow donor:
    http://www.abmdr.org.au/
    http://www.marrow.org/
     
  8. ATP*

    ATP* Guest

    "hintofsmile" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
    > another client. Let me know what you think:
    >
    > I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
    > found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
    > lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."
    >
    > On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
    > general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
    > can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
    > pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.
    >
    > I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
    > back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
    > deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
    > back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
    > bothered.
    >
    > However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
    > stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
    > but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
    > next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
    > to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
    > speed with a slight limp.
    >
    > I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
    > nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).
    >
    > Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
    > legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
    > knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
    > I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
    > above.


    Most chiropractors are just hucksters practicing magick and physical
    therapy. Although this is not true for all chiropractors. Some are sexual
    deviants as well.
     
  9. Curt James

    Curt James Guest

    ATP* <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Most chiropractors are just hucksters practicing magick and physical
    >therapy. Although this is not true for all chiropractors. Some are sexual
    >deviants as well.


    So much for balanced and nuanced, eh?

    Never mind.

    --
     
  10. Where did all this negative crap come from? Every profession has its
    jerks and losers, but dont put all of us in here!
    You wouldnt dare tell this BS to the lady with the aortic aneurism, and
    the lady with the Cardiac Condition (SubclavianSteal) I diagnosed in my
    office on Tuesday. Thats just 2 patients one day.

    And Spodosaurus, did you know that Essentials Of Skeletal Radiology
    was written by a DC, and is used in most Med Schools and Teaching
    Hospitals?

    Did you also know that we REGULARLY receive direct referrals from
    PCPs, Neurolgists and Neurosurgeons, serve on the staff of many
    hospitals, write texts, do research.

    Oh, BTW, the feds are now studying (with grant$) the remarkable
    results with some learning disabled and ADHD children. Should I go on?
    The bottom line is a bad doc is a bad doc, no matter what their degree.
     
  11. Paul Cassel

    Paul Cassel Guest

    hintofsmile wrote:
    > I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
    > another client. Let me know what you think:
    >


    sounds to me like a crock from a crank. why did you even bother to go to
    one of these fakers?
     
  12. Spunkysoreass once got it up the wazoo by a very angry chiropractor,
    and has yet to forgive the profession as a whole. He's a idiot, and a
    jerk, ignore him.
     
  13. Here's more proof he's a poof. First he lists off a stupid rant that
    one chiro used to say, about how he can cure everything. No chiro,
    anywhere with modern training would attempt to adjust the plates in
    your kids skull.
    Next, they have every reason in the world to order Xrays, since if you
    have a fused vertebrae (from birth) and he tries to adjust it, he'd
    break your back.
    As I said, spunkysoreass is a mean, nasty, little bitch, with no
    knowledge of chiros.
     
  14. >Some are sexual deviants as well.>

    Don't talk like that about your dad.
     
  15. "hintofsmile" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    >I donno if my chiropractor is bullshitting me just so he can keep
    > another client. Let me know what you think:
    >
    > I have some pain around both knees. My chiropractor took an X-ray and
    > found "right sacroiliac joint fixation causing bio-mechanical strain to
    > lower extremities. Subluxation of 5th lumbar."
    >
    > On top of the knee pain, my legs have been weaker and unsteady in
    > general, and I sometimes feel pain shooting down my left leg. While I
    > can accept that a messed up sacroiliac joint can cause the shooting
    > pain, I'm less certain about its affect on my knees.
    >
    > I'll describe my injury. It happened last summer, when I abused my
    > back deadlifting and squatting too much weight (I did mostly sumo
    > deadlifts because I'm tall and thin). Consequently, I had some lower
    > back pain, but that was recovering on its own so I wasn't really
    > bothered.
    >
    > However, my left knee started to feel strange a few weeks after I
    > stopped lifting (because of school). It wasn't a painful sensation,
    > but felt more like an unusual tension around the knee joint. For the
    > next few weeks the discomfort became more apparent and my knee started
    > to hurt after walking. Soon, I was reduced to always walking at half
    > speed with a slight limp.
    >
    > I went to see a orthopedist, who X-rayed and MRIed my knee and saw
    > nothing wrong (except a slight outward-shifted kneecap).
    >
    > Soon, my other leg was having the same problem. I also noticed that my
    > legs were becoming weak and unsteady. I tried acupuncture (on the
    > knees) and acupressure (on my lower back) with no improvement. Finally
    > I went to a chiropractor and he gave me the diagnosis I described
    > above.


    If you'll forgive a simple but hopefully very effective suggestion, try
    putting your knee through a full range of motion for reps every day, even
    more than once a day. Something like bodyweight squats, either flat-footed
    or up on your toes at the bottom, but full range - thighs resting on calves.
    Be sure your knees and feet track in the same direction, and see if a few
    days of this - build up gradually, of course - doesn't make you feel better.
    One of the biggest reasons for joint problems is lack of use, such as you
    describe following injury.

    -S-
    http://www.kbnj.com
     
  16. >And Spodosaurus, did you know>

    No, he really doesn't, and he's a dickhead anyway.
     
  17. hintofsmile

    hintofsmile Guest

    Curt James wrote:
    > Perhaps lacking that hint of a smile, hintofsmile


    Aye.

    > Aaaaanyway, how old are you? (That seems to be my first
    > question of late with every response I make.)


    I'm 21.

    > Can you clarify the dates? This injury took place in June or July of
    > 2005 - this year, right?


    Happened gradually between August and September. I started lifting in
    July. By August I was doing 140 lb deadlifts (I'm 6'1, 160 lbs). By
    September I was lifting 160 lbs. Like I said, I neglected the strain
    on my lower back 'cause I thought it'd heal on its own.


    > How much time have you taken off from lifting?


    I stopped lifting in the beginning of October. I've actually stopped
    exercising altogether, trying to minimize the use of my legs.
     
  18. hintofsmile

    hintofsmile Guest

    [email protected] wrote:
    > Well dumbass, did he also give you treatment options? Why ask these
    > simple neandrethals? They can't stop abusing themselves long enough to
    > reply.
    > Listen to your chiros advice.


    I've gone to this chiro 3 times. On each visit, he feels around my
    spine, observes the range of motion of my legs, then has me lay on my
    side while he jerks my torso forward and my hip back. That's it. I'm
    usually in and out of his office within 20 minutes.
     
  19. hintofsmile

    hintofsmile Guest

    spodosaurus wrote:
    > I should also add that a chiropractor has absolutely no business taking
    > or ordering x-rays. They are not trained radiologists and will miss
    > serious health issues. X-rays at a chiros office are used to line their
    > pockets. If they really want x-rays, have them work with your GP to
    > order them and get them properly evaluated. That one good chiro I
    > mentioned, he used x-rays ordered by a doctor and evaluated by a
    > radiologist. I'm not sure which qualification he got first,
    > physiotherapist or chiropractor.
    >
    > Cheers,
    >
    > Ari


    I did ask him to borrow or take copies of the X-ray films to show my
    other doctors. He said the doctor would have to fax him the request to
    get the films. That's when I started to get really skeptical about
    this guy.
     
  20. hintofsmile

    hintofsmile Guest


    > If you'll forgive a simple but hopefully very effective suggestion, try
    > putting your knee through a full range of motion for reps every day, even
    > more than once a day. Something like bodyweight squats, either flat-footed
    > or up on your toes at the bottom, but full range - thighs resting on calves.
    > Be sure your knees and feet track in the same direction, and see if a few
    > days of this - build up gradually, of course - doesn't make you feel better.
    > One of the biggest reasons for joint problems is lack of use, such as you
    > describe following injury.
    >
    > -S-
    > http://www.kbnj.com


    Thanks for the suggestion. It *did* occur to me that the weakness in
    my legs is from lack of use. But going full range (thighs on calves),
    in my current condition will definitely be painful on the knees. I've
    tried. Still, I'll try building gradually.
     
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