Knee Savers - Who's Got 'em?

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Derek Mark Eddi, Mar 11, 2003.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Hi Folks,

    I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend your
    pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm. I know someone who would benefit from them, but after
    searching on the web quite a bit this evening I can't find a place that sells them.

    The last time I saw them was in the 3rd Hand Tools catalog. From the search results, it doesn't look
    like they're in business anymore. I also searched Harris Cyclery, but no joy there (at least
    online)...

    Thanks for any help.

    -dreq
     
    Tags:


  2. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Derek Mark Edding writes:

    > I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend your
    > pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm. I know someone who would benefit from them, but after
    > searching on the web quite a bit this evening I can't find a place that sells them.

    How about:

    http://www.bikescor.com/product/knee.htm http://www.epinions.com/content_75557080708

    > The last time I saw them was in the 3rd Hand Tools catalog. From the search results, it doesn't
    > look like they're in business anymore. I also searched Harris Cyclery, but no joy there (at least
    > online)...

    I don't know that I would use them for two reasons, the crank durability and the device itself. It
    increases side torque on the crank by at least 50%, a direction from which cranks are most likely to
    fail, and the thin walled thread of the extender itself that is subject to yield under heavy load.

    Climbing hills puts a force on this interface dependent on rider weight. A strong rider will only
    repeat the loading at a greater rate. Often people will think they are safe from such loads because
    they are not great hill climbers but that is a mistaken notion. We often get force, work, and power
    confused in the "tech" newsgroup.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  3. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 22:09:54 -0500, Derek Mark Edding <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend your
    >pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm. I know someone who would benefit from them, but after
    >searching on the web quite a bit this evening I can't find a place that sells them.

    You can get up to 3 mm just by installing spacers between the pedal and crankarm. If you want the
    Kneesaver, your Local shop can order them from
    <http://www.pacelineproducts.com/menu_pages/products/PedalSpacers.htm>

    They may also sell direct.
     
  4. A Muzi

    A Muzi Guest

    "Derek Mark Edding" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi Folks,
    >
    > I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend your
    > pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm. I know someone who would benefit from them, but after
    > searching on the web quite a bit this evening I can't find a place that sells them.
    >
    > The last time I saw them was in the 3rd Hand Tools catalog. From the search results, it doesn't
    > look like they're in business anymore. I also searched Harris Cyclery, but no joy there (at least
    > online)...

    I had this number for those. You might try it in the morning:
    562.690.9693

    --
    Andrew Muzi http://www.yellowjersey.org Open every day since 1 April 1971
     
  5. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Derek Mark Edding writes:

    >> I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend
    >> your pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm. I know someone who would benefit from them, but after
    >> searching on the web quite a bit this evening I can't find a place that sells them.

    Back to ground zero. What and how is this device supposed to save knees? Is this for pigeon-toed or
    duck-footed people?

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  6. Doug

    Doug Guest

    >> I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend
    >> your pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm.
    >
    >I don't know that I would use them for two reasons, the crank durability and the device itself. It
    >increases side torque on the crank by at least 50%, a direction from which cranks are most likely
    >to fail, and the thin walled thread of the extender itself that is

    Given the choice between failed knees or cranks, I'd opt for the cranks. No reason these can't be
    viable for those with different anatomical needs. Say those with extra wide hips or bowed legs.

    Doug
     
  7. Fred Roses

    Fred Roses Guest

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    > Back to ground zero. What and how is this device supposed to save knees? Is this for pigeon-toed
    > or duck-footed people?

    Well, I'm pretty duck-footed. On a typical bike my heels *just* clear the chain stays, but on a
    spinning bike, with its extremely low q-factor, I'm hopeless. So I've got a pair of knee-savers on
    my spinner. Works for me...
     
  8. John

    John Guest

    I used them for perhaps one thousand miles on my tadpole trike, never really noticed any
    difference--pro or con--and have removed them for this year's riding.
     
  9. [email protected] wrote:
    > Back to ground zero. What and how is this device supposed to save knees? Is this for pigeon-toed
    > or duck-footed people?

    Thanks for the URLs Jobst.

    In this case it is for someone with an artificial limb. A prosthetic leg is custom made for each
    application and designed for optimal walking. Unless one is very wealthy and can have a second one
    made for bicycling, the alignment for operating a pedal is often poor.

    We have had success in the past by using one or two of these spacers to reposition the pedal.

    -dreq
     
  10. Jobst Brandt

    Jobst Brandt Guest

    Doug poop writes:

    >> I don't know that I would use them for two reasons, the crank durability and the device itself.
    >> It increases side torque on the crank by at least 50%, a direction from which cranks are most
    >> likely to fail, and the thin walled thread of the extender itself

    > Given the choice between failed knees or cranks, I'd opt for the cranks. No reason these can't be
    > viable for those with different anatomical needs. Say those with extra wide hips or bowed legs.

    If you experienced a crank failure you might think otherwise. Cranks fail without warning. Until
    fracture, there is no perceptible change in performance. When separation occurs, it is usually at a
    moment when the rider stands, as when starting after a stop sign or traffic light... or while
    climbing a grade. When a left crank breaks with the rider standing (the most common condition), the
    rider falls to the left, regardless of whether a ready-mix truck or city bus is passing. Right crank
    failures dent parked cars and the rider.

    Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA
     
  11. Pete Grey

    Pete Grey Guest

    3rd hand is now www.biketoolsetc.com, and www.loosescrews.com also has similar lines.

    -pete

    "Derek Mark Edding" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Hi Folks,
    >
    > I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend your
    > pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm. I know someone who would benefit from them, but after
    > searching on the web quite a bit this evening I can't find a place that sells them.
    >
    > The last time I saw them was in the 3rd Hand Tools catalog. From the search results, it doesn't
    > look like they're in business anymore. I also searched Harris Cyclery, but no joy there (at least
    > online)...
    >
    > Thanks for any help.
    >
    > -dreq
     
  12. Bluto

    Bluto Guest

    Derek Mark Edding <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I've been trying track down a set of "Knee Savers". These are small metal devices that extend your
    > pedal out from the crank arm by 2 cm.

    I see that you have gotten some leads on the pedal extenders. Other approaches to consider (or to
    consider combining) are high-offset MTB cranks (designed to clear wide chainstays) and long bottom
    bracket spindles, available in at least 127.5mm.

    Depending on what kind of equipment you are adapting from, those two expedients could add more than
    an inch of offset to either side even before installing the Knee Savers.

    Chalo Colina
     
  13. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >Back to ground zero. What and how is this device supposed to save knees? Is this for pigeon-toed or
    >duck-footed people?

    I don't use them, but I've got broader-than-usual hips.

    In my road-biking career, I had chronic hip pain. On the road bike, my feet were constrained to
    being right over each pedal.

    Now that I'm mountain biking, I have zero hip pain.

    I attribute the diff to the wider stance allowe by my BMX platform pedals. Whenever I look down,
    each foot is about an inch out on the pedal. I'm not trying to place my feet any particular way -
    they just always wind up in that position. So, given the wider hips, I'd say that my stance is just
    naturally a couple inches wider than the average set of cranks/pedals allows for.

    I wouldn't get the kneesavers either. Toyed with the idea once, but the manager of an LBS whose
    knowlege and experience I respect thought they were a really bad idea for the same mechanical
    reasons cited by others in this thread.

    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
  14. On Wed, 12 Mar 2003 01:46:31 -0500, Doug wrote:

    > Given the choice between failed knees or cranks, I'd opt for the cranks. No reason these can't be
    > viable for those with different anatomical needs. Say those with extra wide hips or bowed legs.

    I don't believe the dilemma you present. I used to have trouble with my knees, feeling I wanted to
    ride with my toes further out than I could with the pedals I had. I tried spacers, and almost tried
    "knee savers". But then I got cranks that are "bent" rather tna the old-fashioned straight ones, and
    my ankle can be a lot closer in ralative to the pedal. I also got different pedals.

    Some pedals do have optional longer spindles, which would be a safer alternative to knee savers, at
    the same or less cost. But, if your cranks don't have that "low profile" bend to them, try some that
    do. They work great for me.

    --

    David L. Johnson

    __o | "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored _`\(,_ | by little
    statesmen and philosophers and divines." --Ralph Waldo (_)/ (_) | Emerson
     
  15. Richard

    Richard Guest

    [email protected] wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > Back to ground zero. What and how is this device supposed to save knees? Is this for pigeon-toed
    > or duck-footed people?
    >
    > Jobst Brandt [email protected] Palo Alto CA

    Inquiring minds want to know! I have never seen a straight answer as to whether these things benefit
    bow-legged, straight-legged or knock-kneed riders. Wide or narrow hips? Flat-feet? They can't
    possibly be all things to all riders. At one time I was under the impression they were invented (or
    at least marketed) by a semi famous physical theraphist Randy Ice, or similar name if my memory
    isn't completely gone. Anybody want to help here? I used knee savers for a year or so and never
    thought they made much difference- I'm flat footed and bowlegged and have had all sorts of knee
    pains and aches. Richard
     
  16. Ken

    Ken Guest

    [email protected] (Richard) wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > Inquiring minds want to know! I have never seen a straight answer as to whether these things
    > benefit bow-legged, straight-legged or knock-kneed riders. Wide or narrow hips? Flat-feet? They
    > can't possibly be all things to all riders.

    I think if you're extremely pidgeon toed or have certain kinds of leg deformities, these might make
    sense. Without them, some peoples' ankles would be knocking the crank arms all the time. For the
    other 99.999% of bicyclists, they are less than worthless. Most people benefit from lowering their
    Q-factor, not intentionally increasing it.

    Ken
     
  17. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Fri, 14 Mar 2003 22:17:03 +0000 (UTC), Ken <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Most people benefit from lowering their Q-factor, not intentionally increasing it.

    Why?

    Don't individuals have different distances between the balls of their feet whan they stand, walk, or
    run? I'd guess that the best bicycle racers in the World don't have the same Q and don't always go
    for the narrowest. Using different pedals on the same bicycle will change the
    Q.

    I think that the narrow Q factor is a myth propogated by people who wanted you to replace
    perfectly good equipment with new stuff. I think that is may be as significant as crankarms have
    170 or 172.5 length.
     
  18. Ken

    Ken Guest

    Paul Kopit <[email protected]> wrote in news:[email protected]:
    > Don't individuals have different distances between the balls of their feet whan they stand,
    > walk, or run?

    Do you know any competitive runners who run with their feed wide apart (relative to the forward
    plane)? They might do it at the beginning of a race to get more traction, but once they get up to
    speed their feet will be very close together, if not overlapping.
     
  19. Paul Kopit

    Paul Kopit Guest

    On Sat, 15 Mar 2003 00:57:09 +0000 (UTC), Ken <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Do you know any competitive runners who run with their feed wide apart (relative to the forward
    >plane)? They might do it at the beginning of a race to get more traction, but once they get up to
    >speed their feet will be very close together, if not overlapping.

    The runner twists hips from side to side while the bicyclist stays forward.
     
  20. x

    x Guest

    RE/
    >Do you know any competitive runners who run with their feed wide apart (relative to the forward
    >plane)? They might do it at the beginning of a race to get more traction, but once they get up to
    >speed their feet will be very close together, if not overlapping.

    I don't claim any knowledge of this field, but I've done a lot of both. But for starters, there's
    zero hip rotation in spinning.

    -----------------------
    PeteCresswell
     
Loading...
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
Loading...