Kona=Hype In Writing

Thanks for this link Slacker. The mere fact that they see things in black and white, to include
lameo kona's hype-driven fantasy marketing to the feeble masses.

http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/

Found under "Bogus Marketing":

"To be fair, we must note that many companies make claims for no suspension bob and 100% efficiency.
But without question, the most egregious example of bogus marketing we have ever seen regarding
bicycle rear suspensions comes from Kona, in their ads for the King Kikapu and Mokomoko [see page 7,
Mountain Bike Action, May 2001].

The ad claims, "SHOCK FUNCTION IS AFFECTED BY WEIGHT, FORCE AND GRAVITY – NOT BY PEDALLING_". One
can tell that this was not written by anyone with any significant technical knowledge. An object's
"WEIGHT" is a measure of the attractive "FORCE" between the earth and that object due to "GRAVITY".
Your guess is as good as ours. (The language here is very reminiscent of those VW commercials where
they claim that they get "a maxim amount of volume in a minimum amount of space" – !?!?)

Humorous wording aside, the phrase does claim no pedal activation of the shock, so we have a more
serious issue to consider. Since the rear pivot is on the seat stay in these designs (more on this
later) we know that the designs are essentially mono-pivots under pedaling, with the upper links
acting as suspension tuning. We have proven directly that no mono-pivot is completely non-reactive
to pedaling, so we know immediately that Kona the claim is certainly not true. For example, there
are no qualifications for gearing.

The ad goes on to claim, "SHOCK IS MOUNTED IN LINE WITH SEAT TUBE ALLOWING SMOOTH SHOCK FUNCTION AND
SUPERIOR SHOCK RESPONSIVENESS_". By "IN LINE", we suppose that they mean parallel to the seat tube.
But there are an infinity of other directions that the shock could be mounted that would allow the
same "SMOOTH" shock function (witness the Ventana Marble Peaks, and Rocky Mountains), so we ask,
"What is the point?" We also ask, "‘SUPERIOR' compared to what?" Not to any of the competing designs
we are aware of anyway. Does Kona believe that a shock mounted out of plane to the frame is viable
enough to merit a comparison?

Lastly, the ad claims that, "REAR STAY PIVOT MOUNTED ON SEATSTAY INSTEAD OF CHAINSTAY SO ALSO NOT
AFFECTED BY PEDALING FORCES_". Here is the most abject bit of nonsense. What is not "AFFECTED"?
Clearly the reader is to believe it is the suspension. Again, the "SEATSTAY" pivot essentially makes
these bikes mono-pivots (upper link suspension tuning aside). This fact, in and of itself, is
irrelevant to the degree with which the design is "AFFECTED" by pedaling forces.

Is this a deliberate attempt to mislead potential customers or just a case of extreme ignorance? We
leave the answer to the readers. We simply conclude that when it comes to suspension ad mumbo-jumbo,
Kona is King."

I'd like to flip a virtual middle finger now to all of the dingwads who tout how great kona is
without any substance to back up their hype-fed false claims. Deception begins at marketing and ends
in cut corners and crappy bikes.

JD laughing hysterically

 

JD wrote:
> Thanks for this link Slacker. The mere fact that they see things in black and white, to include
> lameo kona's hype-driven fantasy marketing to the feeble masses.
>
> http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/

>snip<

I do like this though:

"Being currently unique in its ability to produce significantly variable curvature, the VPP concept
is probably the most intriguing design out at the present time."

Whether or not the blur or the spider XVP actually does what its supposed to is another story.

Oh, and it might be a while before my blur test. People are buying the things like hotcakes, before
they even get to the store, let alone are built up. Buying into hype that much is not cool. I'm
willing to test stuff because it sounds sweet, but i'm not going to just throw money at the "next
big thing".

Jon "Commander" Bond anybody seen my Segway? I ordered it like a year ago...

 

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for this link Slacker. The mere fact that they see things in black and white, to include
> lameo kona's hype-driven fantasy marketing to the feeble masses.
>
> http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/

"This theory states that locating a mono-pivot pivot along the chain force line will eliminate
suspension activation under pedaling. Most mono-pivot producers, including Santa Cruz, Marin, and
Ellsworth's Aeon division produce bikes based on this theory. Some take this to mean with
acceleration (Ellsworth) and some without (Santa Cruz). A notable exception is the Titus Loco Moto."

Yay! My bike got mentioned in the section where they were disproving the theory of "Pivot at the
Chain Line" ...and it happens to be the one that doesn't use it. I knew good ol' Titus wouldn't let
me down...

-John Morgan
--
To reply, please remove NOSPAM from the return address.

 

On 12 Dec 2002 22:21:17 -0800, [email protected] (JD) wrote:

>Thanks for this link Slacker. The mere fact that they see things in black and white, to include
>lameo kona's hype-driven fantasy marketing to the feeble masses.
[snip hype]

Take a close look at everything. It's not just Kona on the Hypewagon. Most everyone who mountain
bikes, including me, are or have been taken in by hype. Whether it's mono pivots, disc brakes, bar
ends, phat tyres, split seats, riser bars, suspensions.....27 friggin' gears!

Lets face it were all riding on some hyped up BS.

There's a need to get back to the basics, before Marketers and Corporations got into this and
tweaked our minds.

SS is a start.

Peace, Bill(still affected by the hypemachine, but getting better)Wheeler. The mind serves properly
as a window glass rather than as a reflector, that is, the mind should give an immediate view
instead of an interpretation of the world.
:-]

 

>I'd like to flip a virtual middle finger now to all of the dingwads who tout how great kona is
>without any substance to back up their hype-fed false claims.

I think owning a Kona and enjoying it is all the substance anyone needs to send that finger right
back to you.

>Deception begins at marketing..............

Oh fuck off, like Bill said, every company hypes some type of so called technology on their bikes,
but that's no reason to say that any one company has cut corners on design.

 

Yes, congratulations JD, you've enlightened us all. Who knew advertising was deceptive? Man, that
sure sucks. Kona bikes must really be crap. Glad I bought my Murray when I did.

Chris

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Thanks for this link Slacker. The mere fact that they see things in black and white, to include
> lameo kona's hype-driven fantasy marketing to the feeble masses.
>
> http://www.mtbcomprador.com/pa/english/
>
> Found under "Bogus Marketing":
>
> "To be fair, we must note that many companies make claims for no suspension bob and 100%
> efficiency. But without question, the most egregious example of bogus marketing we have ever seen
> regarding bicycle rear suspensions comes from Kona, in their ads for the King Kikapu and Mokomoko
> [see page 7, Mountain Bike Action, May 2001].
>
> The ad claims, "SHOCK FUNCTION IS AFFECTED BY WEIGHT, FORCE AND GRAVITY - NOT BY PEDALLING_". One
> can tell that this was not written by anyone with any significant technical knowledge. An
> object's "WEIGHT" is a measure of the attractive "FORCE" between the earth and that object due to
> "GRAVITY". Your guess is as good as ours. (The language here is very reminiscent of those VW
> commercials where they claim that they get "a maxim amount of volume in a minimum amount of
> space" - !?!?)
>
> Humorous wording aside, the phrase does claim no pedal activation of the shock, so we have a more
> serious issue to consider. Since the rear pivot is on the seat stay in these designs (more on this
> later) we know that the designs are essentially mono-pivots under pedaling, with the upper links
> acting as suspension tuning. We have proven directly that no mono-pivot is completely non-reactive
> to pedaling, so we know immediately that Kona the claim is certainly not true. For example, there
> are no qualifications for gearing.
>
> The ad goes on to claim, "SHOCK IS MOUNTED IN LINE WITH SEAT TUBE ALLOWING SMOOTH SHOCK FUNCTION
> AND SUPERIOR SHOCK RESPONSIVENESS_". By "IN LINE", we suppose that they mean parallel to the seat
> tube. But there are an infinity of other directions that the shock could be mounted that would
> allow the same "SMOOTH" shock function (witness the Ventana Marble Peaks, and Rocky Mountains), so
> we ask, "What is the point?" We also ask, "'SUPERIOR' compared to what?" Not to any of the
> competing designs we are aware of anyway. Does Kona believe that a shock mounted out of plane to
> the frame is viable enough to merit a comparison?
>
> Lastly, the ad claims that, "REAR STAY PIVOT MOUNTED ON SEATSTAY INSTEAD OF CHAINSTAY SO ALSO NOT
> AFFECTED BY PEDALING FORCES_". Here is the most abject bit of nonsense. What is not "AFFECTED"?
> Clearly the reader is to believe it is the suspension. Again, the "SEATSTAY" pivot essentially
> makes these bikes mono-pivots (upper link suspension tuning aside). This fact, in and of itself,
> is irrelevant to the degree with which the design is "AFFECTED" by pedaling forces.
>
> Is this a deliberate attempt to mislead potential customers or just a case of extreme ignorance?
> We leave the answer to the readers. We simply conclude that when it comes to suspension ad
> mumbo-jumbo, Kona is King."
>
>
> I'd like to flip a virtual middle finger now to all of the dingwads who tout how great kona is
> without any substance to back up their hype-fed false claims. Deception begins at marketing and
> ends in cut corners and crappy bikes.
>
> JD laughing hysterically

 

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> On 12 Dec 2002 22:21:17 -0800, [email protected] (JD) wrote:
>
> >Thanks for this link Slacker. The mere fact that they see things in black and white, to include
> >lameo kona's hype-driven fantasy marketing to the feeble masses.
> [snip hype]
>
> Take a close look at everything. It's not just Kona on the Hypewagon. Most everyone who mountain
> bikes, including me, are or have been taken in by hype. Whether it's mono pivots, disc brakes, bar
> ends, phat tyres, split seats, riser bars, suspensions.....27 friggin' gears!
>
> Lets face it were all riding on some hyped up BS.
>
> There's a need to get back to the basics, before Marketers and Corporations got into this and
> tweaked our minds.
>

That sounds suspiciously like a catch phrase thought up by marketers, Bill!
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

"Chrispy" <[email protected]> top posted
news:<[email protected]>...
> Yes, congratulations JD, you've enlightened us all. Who knew advertising was deceptive? Man, that
> sure sucks. Kona bikes must really be crap. Glad I bought my Murray when I did.

Howzat hook taste?

JD

 

"JD" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> "Chrispy" <[email protected]> top posted
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Yes, congratulations JD, you've enlightened us all. Who knew
advertising
> > was deceptive? Man, that sure sucks. Kona bikes must really be crap.
Glad
> > I bought my Murray when I did.
>
> Howzat hook taste?
>
> JD

You get an honorary cold one lifted for that one........

Molson Ice ok?

Marty

 

"Martees" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> You get an honorary cold one lifted for that one........
>
> Molson Ice ok?

Send the case over this way...

- CA-G

Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

 

In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> "Martees" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > You get an honorary cold one lifted for that one........
> >
> > Molson Ice ok?
>
> Send the case over this way...
>
> - CA-G
>
> Canadian Girls Kick Ass!
>
>
>
Sorry, you American's gotta drink the beer that brung ya!
--
_________________________
Chris Phillipo - Cape Breton, Nova Scotia http://www.ramsays-online.com

 

"Chris Phillipo" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Sorry, you American's gotta drink the beer that brung ya!

We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.

- CA-G Yuengling still dominates in our house...

Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

 

"Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:

>We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.

Penny, it's downright insulting that you'd compare American beer to sludge.

After all, there are, I'm sure, sludge makers out there who are quite proud of their product...

That said, though most of the "major brands" are swill, there are some smaller breweries turning out
serviceable suds.

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.

You got Penny on the mind there, Mark!

Bill "a Carla for your thoughts" S.

 

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.
>
> Penny, it's downright insulting that you'd compare American beer to sludge.

Actually, it was me who compared American beer to sludge, not Penny.

> After all, there are, I'm sure, sludge makers out there who are quite proud of their product...

No doubt.

> That said, though most of the "major brands" are swill, there are some smaller breweries turning
> out serviceable suds.

I agree, that's why I like Yuengling from PA.

- CA-G

Canadian Girls Kick Ass!

 

"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.
>
> Penny, it's downright insulting that you'd compare American beer to sludge.

Mark, your attributions are totally screwed up. That wastn' me. And to think I was just going to
refer someone to your site...

Penny

> After all, there are, I'm sure, sludge makers out there who are quite proud of their product...
>
> That said, though most of the "major brands" are swill, there are some smaller breweries turning
> out serviceable suds.
>
> Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

Sorni <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:FmUL9.149355$%[email protected]...
>
> "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.
>
> You got Penny on the mind there, Mark!
>
> Bill "a Carla for your thoughts" S.

Ouch!

Shaun aRe - A Freudian slip, that some kinda underskirt?

 

"Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:

>"Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:[email protected]...
>> "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>> >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.
>>
>> Penny, it's downright insulting that you'd compare American beer to sludge.
>
>Actually, it was me who compared American beer to sludge, not Penny.

Ack! I have NO idea how THAT happened. Must have been that sludge I was drinking!

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame

 

penny s <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
> >
> > >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.
> >
> > Penny, it's downright insulting that you'd compare American beer to sludge.
>
> Mark, your attributions are totally screwed up. That wastn' me. And to think I was just going to
> refer someone to your site...

Don't worry Penny - his bikes are solid, it's only himself that falls apart.

Shaun aRe

 

"Shaun Rimmer" <[email protected]> wrote:

>
>Sorni <[email protected]> wrote in message
>news:FmUL9.149355$%[email protected]...
>>
>> "Mark Hickey" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>> > "Carla A-G" <[email protected]> wrote:
>> >
>> > >We have Ice here, and believe it or not, it sells for cheaper than the American sludge.
>>
>> You got Penny on the mind there, Mark!
>>
>> Bill "a Carla for your thoughts" S.
>
>Ouch!
>
>Shaun aRe - A Freudian slip, that some kinda underskirt?

Heh heh... Methinks you're overanalyzing. I think the technical term for what happened is "brain
fart". But if I start having dreams about Penny as my mother or something, I'll let you know... ;-)

Mark Hickey Habanero Cycles http://www.habcycles.com Home of the $695 ti frame