Koolstop Salmons vs Koolstop Blacks report

Discussion in 'Cycling Equipment' started by Phil, Squid-in-Training, Oct 13, 2004.

  1. I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    better, but almost imperceptibly.

    To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
    Tags:


  2. M. Chandler

    M. Chandler Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    > better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    > guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.


    Compare them in wet/damp conditions and the Salmons should give
    noticeably better braking.


    --
    Mark Chandler
    Superior, CO
    http://www.MileHighSkates.com
     
  3. G. Huang

    G. Huang Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:

    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    > better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    > guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.


    I have also used both and didn't find one color better than the other. I
    remember the discussion a while ago on the color of tires, and the
    majority conclusion seem to be that the red (or green) tires were no
    better than black ones. I assume this also applies to the brake pads.
    GH
     
  4. Phil, Squid-in-Training wrote:
    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons
    > are better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but
    > I'm guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.


    I don't know about the differences in colour, but koolstop salmon pads
    stopped my v-brakes squealing when I had tried everything else, like
    cleaning the rims, adjusting the pads, tightening down the cantilevers,
    sanding the pads, switching to new pads (shimano, tektro, norco, some
    others). I was at the end of my rope and about to buy new brakes.

    since then I've had competent squeal-free braking in all kinds of weather,
    and the pads and rims are doing fine. What more could I ask for?
     
  5. gwhite

    gwhite Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" wrote:
    >
    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    > better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    > guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.



    In dry conditions, the blacks seem a good deal better.
     
  6. Terry Morse

    Terry Morse Guest

    G. Huang wrote:

    > I have also used both and didn't find one color better than the other. I
    > remember the discussion a while ago on the color of tires, and the
    > majority conclusion seem to be that the red (or green) tires were no
    > better than black ones. I assume this also applies to the brake pads.


    The salmon pads are better than the black ones, mainly because they
    don't eat rims.

    http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html

    --
    terry morse Palo Alto, CA http://bike.terrymorse.com/
     
  7. Phil, Squid-in-Training <[email protected]> wrote:
    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    > better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    > guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.


    i don't notice much of a difference, either. not enuf to say that the
    imperceptible difference is out my realm of expectation anyway.
    --
    david reuteler
    [email protected]
     
  8. On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:53:24 -0700, Terry Morse <[email protected]>
    wrote:

    >G. Huang wrote:
    >
    >> I have also used both and didn't find one color better than the other. I
    >> remember the discussion a while ago on the color of tires, and the
    >> majority conclusion seem to be that the red (or green) tires were no
    >> better than black ones. I assume this also applies to the brake pads.

    >
    >The salmon pads are better than the black ones, mainly because they
    >don't eat rims.
    >
    >http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html


    The article said the red color is due to that secret ingredient "iron
    oxide" which apparantly makes the compound superior. I just
    discovered some barely used Wienmann brick colored pads on an old
    Schwinn I pulled out of the trash. Probably better than the cheapy
    Bell pads that are on my bike currently.
     
  9. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:24:09 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    >braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    >better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    >To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    >guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.


    Wait until it rains.
     
  10. In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] wrote:

    > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 15:53:24 -0700, Terry Morse <[email protected]>
    > wrote:
    >
    > >G. Huang wrote:
    > >
    > >> I have also used both and didn't find one color better than the other. I
    > >> remember the discussion a while ago on the color of tires, and the
    > >> majority conclusion seem to be that the red (or green) tires were no
    > >> better than black ones. I assume this also applies to the brake pads.

    > >
    > >The salmon pads are better than the black ones, mainly because they
    > >don't eat rims.
    > >
    > >http://www.sheldonbrown.com/harris/brakeshoes.html

    >
    > The article said the red color is due to that secret ingredient "iron
    > oxide" which apparantly makes the compound superior. I just
    > discovered some barely used Wienmann brick colored pads on an old
    > Schwinn I pulled out of the trash. Probably better than the cheapy
    > Bell pads that are on my bike currently.


    It's the same secret ingredient. Those are probably based on the old
    Mathauser spec, which Kool Stop made for them, and now makes under their
    own name.

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected] http://www.wiredcola.com
    Verus de parvis; verus de magnis.
     
  11. Dan Daniel <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:24:09 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    >>I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    >>braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    >>better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >>
    >>To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    >>guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.

    >
    > Wait until it rains.


    why, what's supposed to happen? i didn't see much of a difference but i'm
    not in pacific northwest, either. perhaps it's something you only see if
    you're in rain all the time?
    --
    david reuteler
    [email protected]
     
  12. Dan Daniel

    Dan Daniel Guest

    On 14 Oct 2004 02:36:13 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]> wrote:

    >Dan Daniel <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >> On Wed, 13 Oct 2004 21:24:09 GMT, "Phil, Squid-in-Training"
    >> <[email protected]> wrote:
    >>
    >>>I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    >>>braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    >>>better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >>>
    >>>To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    >>>guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.

    >>
    >> Wait until it rains.

    >
    >why, what's supposed to happen? i didn't see much of a difference but i'm
    >not in pacific northwest, either. perhaps it's something you only see if
    >you're in rain all the time?


    I bet that a lot of this has to do with what kind of riding someone is
    doing, expectations, etc.

    I have found the salmon to be better than the black in rain. I am in
    the San Francisco area where rain and fog and mist are common. I
    commute along city streets, up and down hills, etc. The difference
    isn't huge but I think that it is there. Braking starts a touch sooner
    and stays consistent.

    Nothing screaming here- either Koolstop has been a good pad for me.
    But given a choice, the salmon pads have a small edge for wet weather
    braking. If I wasn't braking as much and didn't find the need for
    every edge in crazy traffic, I might not notice any difference.
     
  13. SuperSlinky

    SuperSlinky Guest

    Phil, Squid-in-Training said...

    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    > better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    > guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.


    Just chucked my Campy pads for some Salmons today. After about 300 miles
    the Campy pads were leaving skid marks all over the rims and were
    grabbing. At least the Koolstops will make me feel better by not leaving
    skid marks I can see. I just rode them for 35 miles and they were great
    right out of the box. I would say the stopping power is better than the
    Campy pads, but all you need to lock up any wheel is a little more
    muscle on the brake levers.
     
  14. G. Huang <[email protected]_bell-labs.com> wrote:
    >remember the discussion a while ago on the color of tires, and the
    >majority conclusion seem to be that the red (or green) tires were no
    >better than black ones. I assume this also applies to the brake pads.


    The green ones are an aphrodisiac.

    --Blair
    "The yellow one told me."
     
  15. SuperSlinky <[email protected]> wrote:
    >Phil, Squid-in-Training said...
    >
    >> I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    >> braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    >> better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >>
    >> To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    >> guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.

    >
    >Just chucked my Campy pads for some Salmons today. After about 300 miles
    >the Campy pads were leaving skid marks all over the rims and were
    >grabbing. At least the Koolstops will make me feel better by not leaving
    >skid marks I can see. I just rode them for 35 miles and they were great
    >right out of the box. I would say the stopping power is better than the
    >Campy pads, but all you need to lock up any wheel is a little more
    >muscle on the brake levers.


    I honestly have no idea how old my brake pads are
    (somewhere between 12 and 20 years), nor what brand
    they are, but they've never failed to perform exactly
    as I expect them to.

    --Blair
    "There's this rather complex control system
    in charge of the whole thing, see..."
     
  16. Michael Dart

    Michael Dart Guest

    "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]> wrote in
    message news:[email protected]
    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks. The
    > braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the salmons are
    > better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >
    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but I'm
    > guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.
    >


    Ahhh yes. I remember V-Brakes. ;^)

    Mike
     
  17. Michael Dart wrote:
    > "Phil, Squid-in-Training" <[email protected]>
    > wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >> I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks.
    >> The braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the
    >> salmons are better, but almost imperceptibly.
    >>
    >> To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but
    >> I'm guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any color.
    >>

    >
    > Ahhh yes. I remember V-Brakes. ;^)


    Hey come on now... I'm in Florida. That's a good enough excuse. ;)

    --
    Phil, Squid-in-Training
     
  18. Phil Lee writes:

    > I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks.
    > The braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the
    > salmons are better, but almost imperceptibly.


    > To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power, but
    > I'm guessing that Kool-Stop just makes their pads well in any color.


    The two main features of this pad material are:

    1. That it does not fade with extended braking.

    2. That even in dirty conditions, if grit gets in the pad, pumping the
    brakes sharply will expel that contamination. It is this feature,
    of not retaining grit or aluminum scrapings that destroy rims, that
    extends the life of wheels.

    3. less significant is their slow wear rate.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  19. Blair P. Houghton writes:

    >>> I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks.
    >>> The braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the
    >>> salmons are better, but almost imperceptibly.


    >>> To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power,
    >>> but I'm guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any
    >>> color.


    >> Just chucked my Campy pads for some Salmons today. After about 300
    >> miles the Campy pads were leaving skid marks all over the rims and
    >> were grabbing. At least the Koolstops will make me feel better by
    >> not leaving skid marks I can see. I just rode them for 35 miles and
    >> they were great right out of the box. I would say the stopping
    >> power is better than the Campy pads, but all you need to lock up
    >> any wheel is a little more muscle on the brake levers.


    > I honestly have no idea how old my brake pads are (somewhere between
    > 12 and 20 years), nor what brand they are, but they've never failed
    > to perform exactly as I expect them to.


    I take it you are trying to convince readers that you don't ride bike,
    but to the corner news stand and back if that. My father also had the
    same brake pads on his bicycle for more than 40 years. He bought that
    bicycle to get to his office a mile away once when the car broke down.
    He never rode it since. Those were durable brake pads.

    Jobst Brandt
    [email protected]
     
  20. Guest

    Dear Jobst et. all, I am compelled to chime in at this point. Here in North
    Central Indiana I ride an average of 30 miles a day on lonley farm roads
    that have very few if any stop signs, little or no grit or sand in the
    winter and are, for all practical purposes, absolutly flat. In the last
    three years (about 30,000 miles) I have not noticed any significant wear on
    my brake pads and expect to have these same brake pads for as long as I live
    here.

    When I lived in Boston I rode an average of 20 miles a day through heavy
    traffic, hills and all that sand and grime that they put on the roads out
    there. During this period I got about 5000 miles or one winter out of a set
    of pads. I also wore out my front rim side walls, a hard thing to do with so
    many potholes about.

    I feel that I am correct when I say "it depends" in response to how long
    brake pads should last. (you probably guessed by now that I am a consultant
    by trade)

    Dave Reckoning


    <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Blair P. Houghton writes:
    >
    >>>> I put a pair of Koolstop salmons to replace worn Koolstop blacks.
    >>>> The braking is pretty much identical, but if I had to choose, the
    >>>> salmons are better, but almost imperceptibly.

    >
    >>>> To be honest, I was expecting a large increase in braking power,
    >>>> but I'm guessing that Koolstop just makes their pads well in any
    >>>> color.

    >
    >>> Just chucked my Campy pads for some Salmons today. After about 300
    >>> miles the Campy pads were leaving skid marks all over the rims and
    >>> were grabbing. At least the Koolstops will make me feel better by
    >>> not leaving skid marks I can see. I just rode them for 35 miles and
    >>> they were great right out of the box. I would say the stopping
    >>> power is better than the Campy pads, but all you need to lock up
    >>> any wheel is a little more muscle on the brake levers.

    >
    >> I honestly have no idea how old my brake pads are (somewhere between
    >> 12 and 20 years), nor what brand they are, but they've never failed
    >> to perform exactly as I expect them to.

    >
    > I take it you are trying to convince readers that you don't ride bike,
    > but to the corner news stand and back if that. My father also had the
    > same brake pads on his bicycle for more than 40 years. He bought that
    > bicycle to get to his office a mile away once when the car broke down.
    > He never rode it since. Those were durable brake pads.
    >
    > Jobst Brandt
    > [email protected]
     
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