Kunich, surely you're kidding...right? (nothing to do with racing)



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Bikeadman

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Tom Kunich wrote: "Please remember that the world has never had a longer period of peace than the
last 60 years that America has bought with its money, its power and its blood."

Tom, Tom, Tom, I really do do my earnest best to let you go your own, odd way, but this, Tom, this
is too much. You're kidding, right?

Just as a top-of-the mind example where the U.S. has inserted troops, or done black bag ops attended
by death in these last sixty "peaceful" years:

Afghanistan Dominican Republic Chile Greece Grenada Guatamala Iran Iraq Korea Kosovo Nicaragua The
Phillipines Sudan

Hmm, I keep thinking I'm missing one. Oh, yes. Vietnam.

Richard
 
BikeAdman wrote:
>
> Tom Kunich wrote: "Please remember that the world has never had a longer period of peace than the
> last 60 years that America has bought with its money, its power and its blood."
>
> Tom, Tom, Tom, I really do do my earnest best to let you go your own, odd way, but this, Tom, this
> is too much. You're kidding, right?
>
> Just as a top-of-the mind example where the U.S. has inserted troops, or done black bag ops
> attended by death in these last sixty "peaceful" years:
>
> Afghanistan Dominican Republic Chile Greece Grenada Guatamala Iran Iraq Korea Kosovo Nicaragua The
> Phillipines Sudan
>
> Hmm, I keep thinking I'm missing one. Oh, yes. Vietnam.
>
> Richard

Panama Bosnia-Herzegovina Somalia (I think you meant instead of Sudan) Colombia

But, yes, that qualifies as "peace." - Just like you have general civil law and order despite the
odd bank robbery, murder and white collar crime for which you send in the cops, instead of allowing
chaos. Or maybe a perfect world would be anarchy?
 
More off-racing, but on Kunich:

This test consists of only one multiple-choice question, so try to get it right.

Here's a list of the countries that the U.S. has

bombed since the end of World War II, as compiled by

historian William Blum:

China 1945-46

Korea 1950-53

China 1950-53

Guatemala 1954

Indonesia 1958

Cuba 1959-60

Guatemala 1960

Congo 1964

Peru 1965

Laos 1964-73

Vietnam 1961-73

Cambodia 1969-70

Guatemala 1967-69

Grenada 1983

Libya 1986

El Salvador 1980s

Nicaragua 1980s

Panama 1989

Iraq 1991-99

Sudan 1998

Afghanistan 1998

Yugoslavia 1999

Now the question.

In how many of these instances did a democratic

government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result of our bombing?

The Answer: 0
 
In message <[email protected]>, BikeAdman <[email protected]> writes
>Now the question.
>
>In how many of these instances did a democratic
>
>government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result of our bombing?

Is the result different if the three questions are split?

1. How many of these countries now have democratic governments?

2. Of the countries identified in Q1, how many of the governments are respectful of human rights?

3. Of the countries identified in Q1 and Q2, how many of them would have achieved this state as a
result of military action (including bombing) by the USA?

4. Of the countries identified in Q1, Q2 and Q3, how many of them achieved this state as a direct
result of bombing by the USA?
--
Michael MacClancy
 
"BikeAdman" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> More off-racing, but on Kunich:
>
> This test consists of only one multiple-choice question, so try to get it right.
>
>
>
> Here's a list of the countries that the U.S. has
>
> bombed since the end of World War II, as compiled by
>
> historian William Blum:
>
>
>
> China 1945-46
>
> Korea 1950-53
>
> China 1950-53
>
> Guatemala 1954
>
> Indonesia 1958
>
> Cuba 1959-60
>
> Guatemala 1960
>
> Congo 1964
>
> Peru 1965
>
> Laos 1964-73
>
> Vietnam 1961-73
>
> Cambodia 1969-70
>
> Guatemala 1967-69
>
> Grenada 1983
>
> Libya 1986
>
> El Salvador 1980s
>
> Nicaragua 1980s
>
> Panama 1989
>
> Iraq 1991-99
>
> Sudan 1998
>
> Afghanistan 1998
>
> Yugoslavia 1999
>
>
>
> Now the question.
>
> In how many of these instances did a democratic
>
> government, respectful of human rights, occur as a direct result of our bombing?
>
>
> The Answer: 0

You forgot the French embassy in Libya, which technically is sovereign soil.

-T
 
BikeAdman wrote:
>
> More off-racing, but on Kunich:
>
> This test consists of only one multiple-choice question, so try to get it right.
>
>
>
> Here's a list of the countries that the U.S. has
>
> bombed since the end of World War II, as compiled by
>
> historian William Blum:
>
> China 1945-46
>
> Korea 1950-53
>
> China 1950-53
>
> Guatemala 1954
>
> Indonesia 1958
>
> Cuba 1959-60
>
> Guatemala 1960
>
> Congo 1964
>
> Peru 1965
>
> Laos 1964-73
>
> Vietnam 1961-73
>
> Cambodia 1969-70
>
> Guatemala 1967-69
>
> Grenada 1983
>
> Libya 1986
>
> El Salvador 1980s
>
> Nicaragua 1980s
>
> Panama 1989
>
> Iraq 1991-99
>
> Sudan 1998
>
> Afghanistan 1998
>
> Yugoslavia 1999
>
> Now the question.
>
> In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a
> direct result of our bombing?
>
> The Answer: 0

The answer is not zero. But what made you think that was the objective?
 
"TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Just a little more info on human nature as it relates to getting along and peace. Pretty gloomy
> reading, scan through the tables especialy.
>
> http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/392/spy/Ongoing%20World%20Conflicts.htm

One of the sentences in there made me laugh.

"China also claims Taiwan and Nepal, which it considers breakaway provinces"

Taiwan yes, but Nepal?

That's funny. Nepal is on the other side of the Himalaya. I've ridden a MTB down the Lhasa to
Kathmandu route and there is almost no military presence at the border. Not only that, there is
hardly a road to the border. The roads leading down those gorges drop 15,000 vertical feet, the way
is steep and there are thousands of waterfalls, fueled by glacial melting. The 'road' we were on was
out in 5 different spots (erosion from waterfalls). At the bottom of one of the wash-outs was a
truck hundreds of feet down. The commerce that was being conducted was via porters, on foot.

I don't think that China has ever gone after Nepal in its 5000 year history. It's simply not
geographically feasible.

Taiwan is another matter. They view Taiwan the same way we would view Cuba if the Confederates holed
up there after the Civil War.

Anyways, that site had interesting reading, but obviously parts of it need to be taken with a
grain of salt.
 
"Kurgan Gringioni" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
>
> "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> > Just a little more info on human nature as it relates to getting along
and
> > peace. Pretty gloomy reading, scan through the tables especialy.
> >
> > http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/392/spy/Ongoing%20World%20Conflicts.htm
>
>
>
> One of the sentences in there made me laugh.
>
> "China also claims Taiwan and Nepal, which it considers breakaway
provinces"
>
>
> Taiwan yes, but Nepal?
>

I'm sure they meant Tibet.

-T
 
On Mon, 17 Mar 2003 21:39:10 GMT, Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>"China also claims Taiwan and Nepal, which it considers breakaway =
provinces"
>Taiwan yes, but Nepal?

Maybe they meant Tibet?
 
David Ryan <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> BikeAdman wrote:
> >
> > More off-racing, but on Kunich:
> >
......
> >
> > Afghanistan 1998
> >
> > Yugoslavia 1999
> >
> > Now the question.
> >
> > In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as
> > a direct result of our bombing?
> >
> > The Answer: 0
>
> The answer is not zero. But what made you think that was the objective?

We're going to do it again and again until we get it right.
 
"BikeAdman" <[email protected]> wrote

[list snipped]

> In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as a
> direct result of our bombing?
>
> The Answer: 0

Maybe, maybe not. But some of these events appear to have contributed to regime change, if by regime
change you include changes in the U.S. presidency.
 
BikeAdman <[email protected]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email protected]...
> Tom Kunich wrote: "Please remember that the world has never had a longer
period
> of peace than the last 60 years that America has bought with its money,
its
> power and its blood."
>
> Tom, Tom, Tom, I really do do my earnest best to let you go your own, odd
way,
> but this, Tom, this is too much. You're kidding, right?
>
> Just as a top-of-the mind example where the U.S. has inserted troops, or
done
> black bag ops attended by death in these last sixty "peaceful" years:
>
> Afghanistan Dominican Republic Chile Greece Grenada Guatamala Iran Iraq Korea Kosovo Nicaragua The
> Phillipines Sudan
>
> Hmm, I keep thinking I'm missing one. Oh, yes. Vietnam.
>
> Richard

You missed another one: Cambodia. It was dragged into war by the US, which eventually led to the
'Killing Fields'. A few days ago I saw some footage of 'carpet bombing' around Pnomh Penh. It
was horrible.
 
Robert Chung <[email protected]> schreef in berichtnieuws
[email protected]...
>
> "BikeAdman" <[email protected]> wrote
>
> [list snipped]
>
> > In how many of these instances did a democratic government, respectful of human rights, occur as
> > a direct result of our bombing?
> >
> > The Answer: 0
>
> Maybe, maybe not. But some of these events appear to have contributed to regime change, if by
> regime change you include changes in the U.S. presidency.
>
>

And also regime changes in the countries involved, like Chile, when Allende was succeeded by
Pinochet. I'm not sure if that made the country more democratic though. What does
'freedom-loving' mean?
 
"Stewart Fleming" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
>
> Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
> > "TritonRider" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>Just a little more info on human nature as it relates to getting along
and
> >>peace. Pretty gloomy reading, scan through the tables especialy.
> >>
> >>http://faculty.ncwc.edu/toconnor/392/spy/Ongoing%20World%20Conflicts.htm
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > One of the sentences in there made me laugh.
> >
> > "China also claims Taiwan and Nepal, which it considers breakaway
provinces"
>
> Tibet instead of Nepal? STF
>
Tibet is hardly a breakaway province, occupied as it is by PRC troops. Last two attempts at
breakaway were relative bloody for the small population.

China has a long memory - they still consider Viet Nam a tributary, which partly led to the brief
bloody war in the spring of 1979. Can't quite see Nepal as a province though.

--
Curtis L. Russell Odenton, MD (USA) Just someone on two wheels...
 
Kurgan Gringioni <[email protected]> wrote:

> That's funny. Nepal is on the other side of the Himalaya. I've ridden a MTB down the Lhasa to
> Kathmandu route and there is almost no military presence at the border.

Wow! Is there a write-up of that somewhere? I would love to see and read about that trip!

Didier

--
Didier A Depireux [email protected] [email protected] 685 W.Baltimore Str
http://neurobiology.umaryland.edu/depireux.htm Anatomy and Neurobiology Phone: 410-706-1272 (off)
University of Maryland -1273 (lab) Baltimore MD 21201 USA Fax: 1-410-706-2512
 
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Advertising on Usenet is a frequently misunderstood subject. The purpose of this message is to
explain some Usenet conventions regarding advertising to new users and, hopefully, spare everyone
involved a lot of needless worry.

To start with, let's define the term. "Usenet" is *not* synonymous with "Internet." Usenet is the
system of online discussion groups, called "newsgroups," e.g. rec.humor, comp.misc,
news.announce.newusers,

attempt to describe in detail all the various ways in which one can conduct commercial activity over
the Internet and attempts simply to explain the issues involved in advertising in Usenet newsgroups.

The philosophy of Usenet
------------------------
Usenet started out in 1980 as a UNIX network linking sites which needed to talk about and receive
prompt updates on UNIX system configuration and other UNIX questions. Message traffic started out at
a few messages/year... In the beginning, Usenet was largely confined to educational institutions
such as universities and colleges, and to research companies and other commercial enterprises with
UNIX machines on-site. It has now grown to include millions of users at commercial sites such as
America Online...

That these customs and traditions began when Usenet was much smaller and quite different in nature
in no way lessens the anger many users feel when these customs and traditions are violated. One such
custom is the tradition and belief that it is rude to advertise for profit in Usenet newsgroups.

Advertising is widely seen as an 'off-topic' intrusion into the discussions of any particular
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Due to the decentralized nature of Usenet, there is no one person or body which can "enforce" the
custom of staying on-topic. It falls on each user to help preserve the culture of open discussion
and free speech that Usenet has come to embody by not posting off-topic material.

This, of course, includes advertising. Advertising is by far the most pervasive form of off-topic
posting, and therefore, gets most of the heat.

An analogy
----------
If an analogy will help you to visualize the situation, imagine a meeting at your workplace
or school.

At this meeting, people are discussing a certain issue -- for example, getting new sidewalks
installed downtown or getting new schoolbooks for the elementary school, or what to do about the new
product your company is planning on introducing.

In the midst of the discussions on the new sidewalks or textbooks or product, someone walks into the
room, interrupts everyone, then reads an advertisement for a local restaurant. He or she then leaves
without waiting for comment.

Now imagine if this happened over and over again each time your group tried to hold a meeting. Every
time someone tried to make a point, in walks some other stranger who reads an ad for some business
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It would soon become rather difficult to hold effective meetings, wouldn't it?

Similarly, it's very difficult to keep Usenet newsgroups interesting and useful when people deluge
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How to advertise on Usenet
--------------------------
*.forsale and *.marketplace newsgroups

There are many newsgroups directly involved in selling. You can generally spot them by the word
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You can access the FAQ and archives via the Web using these URLs:

http://draco.acs.uci.edu/rbfaq/
http://www.cis.ohio-state.edu/hypertext/faq/usenet/bicycles-faq/top.html

"BikeAdman" <>
> Hmm, I keep thinking I'm missing one. Oh, yes. Vietnam.
>
> Richard
>
>
 
Curtis L. Russell wrote:

> Tibet is hardly a breakaway province, occupied as it is by PRC troops. Last two attempts at
> breakaway were relative bloody for the small population.

China considers Tibet a Chinese territory. (Note I didn't make the original description of
"breakaway province".)

In 1949, shortly after the PRC was founded, the call went out from Beijing to "liberate all Chinese
territories, including Xinjiang, Hainan and Taiwan." (Note the use of the word "liberate" to
describe the illegal invasion and annexation of another nation.) The Chinese army destroyed the
Tibetan army in about 2 days and has been there ever since. As you may know, the Dalai Lama stayed
on as token Head of State for some years before escaping over the mountains in 1959.

Interesting to see what the fledgling UN did in response to requests for assistance (even discussion
in General Assembly)...

STF
 
"Jonathan v.d. Sluis" wrote:
>
> BikeAdman <[email protected]> schreef in berichtnieuws
> [email protected]...
> > Tom Kunich wrote: "Please remember that the world has never had a longer
> period
> > of peace than the last 60 years that America has bought with its money,
> its
> > power and its blood."
> >
> > Tom, Tom, Tom, I really do do my earnest best to let you go your own, odd
> way,
> > but this, Tom, this is too much. You're kidding, right?
> >
> > Just as a top-of-the mind example where the U.S. has inserted troops, or
> done
> > black bag ops attended by death in these last sixty "peaceful" years:
> >
> > Afghanistan Dominican Republic Chile Greece Grenada Guatamala Iran Iraq Korea Kosovo Nicaragua
> > The Phillipines Sudan
> >
> > Hmm, I keep thinking I'm missing one. Oh, yes. Vietnam.
> >
> > Richard
>
> You missed another one: Cambodia. It was dragged into war by the US, which eventually led to the
> 'Killing Fields'. A few days ago I saw some footage of 'carpet bombing' around Pnomh Penh. It was
> horrible.

Shows how little most people know but the propaganda. The Ho Chi Minh trail (the supply line from
the communist north) skirted the defended border and bombing by going through Cambodia. And the
growth of the Khmer Rouge did not depend on US involvement no matter how many times America-hating
professors claim it did.
 
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