LA Free Bikes?

Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid bikes - I don't see any for them. Anyway,
does anyone have any experience with the LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong, long-lasting assist in powered
mode. I've read the company's info on the bikes, but I'd like to read about some real-world
experiences with them. Are they reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least 18 months
if cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon? Any friendly responses would be
appreciated.
--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Michael Cerkowski <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid bikes - I don't see any for them.

"hybrid" bikes are hybridized road/mountain bikes. Road-type wheels/tires/gearing; upright position,
straight handlebars, and emphatically *no electric power*.

google for 'electric bicycles' or 'electric-assist...'

>Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a
>bike that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong, long-lasting assist in
>powered mode. I've read the company's info on the bikes, but I'd like to read about some real-world
>experiences with them. Are they reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least 18 months
>if cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon? Any friendly responses would be
>appreciated.

ease of pedalling is a function of proper gearing. Knee pain can also be a function of poor
positioning/improper fitting on a bicycle.

see

<www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html> for help on knee issues.

Electric bikes are unnecessarily expensive, heavy, and complicated...I'd go for a conventional
bicycle, with appropriately low gearing, but you and your doctor know your knee best.

The bicycle that you can buy with the same money--without the electrical complications--will be far
better, lighter, more durable, and serviceable...

-Luigi

 

"Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...

> Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
bikes - I
> don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
experience with the
> LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
that is both
> easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
long-lasting
> assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
the bikes, but
> I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
them. Are they
> reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
18 months if
> cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
Any friendly
> responses would be appreciated.

There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're all
non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along at all is
going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most even surface --
especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you have a bad knee. There's
also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain, making the situation even worse. Plus,
if it's not using lightweight battery technology already it will really weigh a ton! So any bike
like this will probably be a disaster from a pedaling standpoint, and not a very good powered
vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent regular bicycle, and/or a dedicated electric scooter if
you want one of those. I rode an Oxygen/Lepton scooter awhile ago, and it was fantastic.

Matt O.

 

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> Michael Cerkowski <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid bikes - I don't see any for them.
>
> "hybrid" bikes are hybridized road/mountain bikes. Road-type wheels/tires/gearing; upright
> position, straight handlebars, and emphatically *no electric power*.
>
> google for 'electric bicycles' or 'electric-assist...'

I'm looking for a newsgroup. If anyone knows of one, please post it.

>
> >Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want
> >a bike that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong, long-lasting assist in
> >powered mode. I've read the company's info on the bikes, but I'd like to read about some
> >real-world experiences with them. Are they reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at
> >least 18 months if cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon? Any friendly
> >responses would be appreciated.
>
> ease of pedalling is a function of proper gearing. Knee pain can also be a function of poor
> positioning/improper fitting on a bicycle.
>
> see
>
> <www.sheldonbrown.com/pain.html> for help on knee issues.
>
> Electric bikes are unnecessarily expensive, heavy, and complicated...I'd go for a conventional
> bicycle, with appropriately low gearing, but you and your doctor know your knee best.
>
> The bicycle that you can buy with the same money--without the electrical complications--will be
> far better, lighter, more durable, and serviceable...
>
> -Luigi

I've been riding for...seems like forever, and have an 18 speed mountain bike that I guess you'd
call a "hybrid". I need the electric assist for longer rides and for hills, due to my knee and to
other health problems as well. Again, if anyone has experience with these bikes or can direct me
to a newsgroup or US E-bike listserve, I'd appreciate the info.

--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Get a moped.

--
- Zilla (Remove XSPAM)

"Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid bikes - I don't see any for them.
> Anyway, does anyone have any experience with the LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want
> a bike that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong, long-lasting assist in
> powered mode. I've read the company's info on the bikes, but I'd like to read about some
> real-world experiences with them. Are they reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at
> least 18 months if cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon? Any friendly responses
> would be appreciated.
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Matt O'Toole wrote:
>
> "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>
> > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
> bikes - I
> > don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
> experience with the
> > LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
> that is both
> > easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
> long-lasting
> > assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
> the bikes, but
> > I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
> them. Are they
> > reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
> 18 months if
> > cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
> Any friendly
> > responses would be appreciated.
>
> There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're all
> non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along at all is
> going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most even surface --
> especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you have a bad knee. There's
> also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain, making the situation even worse.
> Plus, if it's not using lightweight battery technology already it will really weigh a ton! So any
> bike like this will probably be a disaster from a pedaling standpoint, and not a very good powered
> vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent regular bicycle, and/or a dedicated electric scooter if
> you want one of those. I rode an Oxygen/Lepton scooter awhile ago, and it was fantastic.
>
> Matt O.

I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent extra
drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level ground
I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this newsgroup for a
couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core bicyclists about a non
hard-core bicycle...
--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

> I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this newsgroup
> for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core bicyclists about a
> non hard-core bicycle...
> --
Section snip. I have had dreams of having some type of hill assist for many years. Weight is the
enemy for almost every system I have encounter to date. This includes regenerative electric and
hydraulic At least two members on our bicycle club have bought electric assist bicycle, hoping to
continue to do club rides as they became older. Sadly, they could not keep up with the low lever
club rides of 11 to 13 mph average. Both just rides alone on their regular bicycle on the flats. At
a League of America Bicycle rally in Lancaster PA a few years 12 years ago, a rider equipped his
recumbent with a weed whacker gas motor. He rode the bent from north New Jersey to Lancaster PA,
about 200 miles. He was on the same rally day ride as I, a 11 to 15 mph pace. He only use the assist
for uphill and the pace was about his same as mine, less than 10 mph. With the weed whacker, the
added weigh is minimum, but the noise is too loud for most of us. Lighter batteries an motors can
one day make a different. The segway uses advance technology with its motors, batteries and designs,
still weigh in at 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/
--
// Bill Cotton: Latitude N40° 03.756' W75° 06.192' / / Phone 215 663-8363 Data 215 663-8364 //
[email protected] [email protected] // [email protected] [email protected] //
www.billcotton.com


"Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Matt O'Toole wrote:
> >
> > "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
> > bikes - I
> > > don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
> > experience with the
> > > LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
> > that is both
> > > easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
> > long-lasting
> > > assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
> > the bikes, but
> > > I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
> > them. Are they
> > > reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
> > 18 months if
> > > cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
> > Any friendly
> > > responses would be appreciated.
> >
> > There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're all
> > non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along at all is
> > going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most even surface --
> > especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you have a bad knee.
> > There's also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain, making the situation even
> > worse. Plus, if it's not using lightweight battery technology already it will really weigh a
> > ton! So any bike like this will probably be a disaster from a pedaling standpoint, and not a
> > very good powered vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent regular bicycle, and/or a dedicated
> > electric scooter if you want one of those. I rode an Oxygen/Lepton scooter awhile ago, and it
> > was fantastic.
> >
> > Matt O.
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

> I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this newsgroup
> for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core bicyclists about a
> non hard-core bicycle...

I did look up their website (http://www.powerassist.com/eyeframe5.htm); these bikes still have
*serious* deficiencies. Among them-

#1: Under *ideal* conditions, max run is 25 miles on the "Lite" version,
just 20 on the standard, and this mileage assumes you're pedaling.

#2: Power output declines, apparently rapidly, during the duration of the
ride. In fact, it contains a warning that hill climbing performance may not be what you expect only
10 miles into a ride (doesn't fit your need for "long lasting" to be sure!).

#3: Expect a 20% decline in battery performance at 45 degrees vs 65. This
is definitely a fair-weather machine (although if, as the name implies, it's targeted at Southern
California, this isn't an issue).

#4: It's questionable how safe it is in traffic, as max speed with motor
assist is 20 miles per hour. This may not be an issue for many, but if you were riding on a
slight decline, I'd suggest this is a serious deficiency. Maneuvering downhill, you're
essentially on your own.

#5: Marketing is deceptive; on the page where it states that "LA FREE gives
you added power" it implies that it can climb a 14% grade. Uh, no. With heavy assistance from *you*
it will climb up to a 14% grade before the overload sensors kick in and the motor stops. Some might
even be fooled into thinking it will go up a hill fast, since they talk about speed and grade in the
same sentence. This is simply not the case. To go up a steep hill will require heavy effort on your
part. Remember what the FAQ said? Output power increases as *your* power increases. You can't just
kick back and take it easy up a hill.

#6: Sizing. If you've read much here, you know that huge differences in
performance and enjoyment come from getting a bike that fits you. The LA FREE bike comes in... one
size for each model. They, of course, list a huge range of adjustability. You *may* be able to be
comfortable under such a scheme, but you won't be efficient.

Conclusion- You originally stated

" I have a bad knee, and want a bike that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a
strong, long-lasting assist in powered mode."

The LA FREE isn't that bike. It's own FAQ says so. Battery and motor technology may eventually get
there, but it's not there yet (at least not at a price that would give a marketable product).

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Matt O'Toole wrote:
> >
> > "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> >
> > > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
> > bikes - I
> > > don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
> > experience with the
> > > LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
> > that is both
> > > easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
> > long-lasting
> > > assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
> > the bikes, but
> > > I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
> > them. Are they
> > > reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
> > 18 months if
> > > cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
> > Any friendly
> > > responses would be appreciated.
> >
> > There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're all
> > non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along at all is
> > going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most even surface --
> > especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you have a bad knee.
> > There's also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain, making the situation even
> > worse. Plus, if it's not using lightweight battery technology already it will really weigh a
> > ton! So any bike like this will probably be a disaster from a pedaling standpoint, and not a
> > very good powered vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent regular bicycle, and/or a dedicated
> > electric scooter if you want one of those. I rode an Oxygen/Lepton scooter awhile ago, and it
> > was fantastic.
> >
> > Matt O.
>
> I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this newsgroup
> for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core bicyclists about a
> non hard-core bicycle...
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

> I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this newsgroup
> for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core bicyclists about a
> non hard-core bicycle...

And in that you may be right.

For the sort of bicycle that you get, the added cost of an electric assist is not really that much
of an enticement to most bicyclists. For the 'nonserious' (I'll not comment on hardness of core)
occasional bicyle user, it's just too damned expensive--you can get a bike for US$50, a passably
good one at US$100-150, and a really good one at US$200-250. Why spend nearly a kilobuck?

For the 'serious' cyclist, the electrical bicycle adds weight, cost, and complication while not
adding anything particularly useful in return.

If your knee is really that bad, and you are already minded to get the bike, then get it. Merely be
aware that, absent its electrical capabilities, the bike you're getting is equivalently specified to
one costing only a little more than a tenth as much, with a great deal of additional weight and
complexity.

-Luigi

 

billcotton wrote:
>
> >
> > I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> > extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> > ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this
> > newsgroup for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core
> > bicyclists about a non hard-core bicycle...
> > --
> Section snip. I have had dreams of having some type of hill assist for many years. Weight is the
> enemy for almost every system I have encounter to date. This includes regenerative electric and
> hydraulic At least two members on our bicycle club have bought electric assist bicycle, hoping to
> continue to do club rides as they became older. Sadly, they could not keep up with the low lever
> club rides of 11 to 13 mph average. Both just rides alone on their regular bicycle on the flats.
> At a League of America Bicycle rally in Lancaster PA a few years 12 years ago, a rider equipped
> his recumbent with a weed whacker gas motor. He rode the bent from north New Jersey to Lancaster
> PA, about 200 miles. He was on the same rally day ride as I, a 11 to 15 mph pace. He only use the
> assist for uphill and the pace was about his same as mine, less than 10 mph. With the weed
> whacker, the added weigh is minimum, but the noise is too loud for most of us. Lighter batteries
> an motors can one day make a different. The segway uses advance technology with its motors,
> batteries and designs, still weigh in at 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/
> --
> // Bill Cotton: Latitude N40° 03.756' W75° 06.192' / / Phone 215 663-8363 Data 215 663-8364 //
> [email protected] [email protected] // [email protected] [email protected]
> // www.billcotton.com

Any specific experience with the LA Free bikes? I know that there are a lot of electric assist
bikes out there, and that they are not all equal...

>
> "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > >
> > > "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
> > > bikes - I
> > > > don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
> > > experience with the
> > > > LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
> > > that is both
> > > > easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
> > > long-lasting
> > > > assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
> > > the bikes, but
> > > > I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
> > > them. Are they
> > > > reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
> > > 18 months if
> > > > cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
> > > Any friendly
> > > > responses would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're
> > > all non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along at
> > > all is going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most even
> > > surface -- especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you have a
> > > bad knee. There's also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain, making the
> > > situation even worse. Plus, if it's not using lightweight battery technology already it will
> > > really weigh a ton! So any bike like this will probably be a disaster from a pedaling
> > > standpoint, and not a very good powered vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent regular
> > > bicycle, and/or a dedicated electric scooter if you want one of those. I rode an Oxygen/Lepton
> > > scooter awhile ago, and it was fantastic.
> > >
> > > Matt O.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> > I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> > extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> > ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this
> > newsgroup for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core
> > bicyclists about a non hard-core bicycle...
>
> I did look up their website (http://www.powerassist.com/eyeframe5.htm); these bikes still have
> *serious* deficiencies. Among them-
>
> #1: Under *ideal* conditions, max run is 25 miles on the "Lite" version,
> just 20 on the standard, and this mileage assumes you're pedaling.

I understand that. When I did 'serious' riding my routes were 10 and 15 miles,and the 15 mile
route was mostly downhill for the second half. I can live with a 15 mile range.

>
> #2: Power output declines, apparently rapidly, during the duration of the
> ride. In fact, it contains a warning that hill climbing performance may not be what you expect
> only 10 miles into a ride (doesn't fit your need for "long lasting" to be sure!).

See above. I want the bike for running 1 or 2 mile errands, and for 10 mile rides in the country.
The latter would include large hills, but they would be no more than 5 miles into the ride.

>
> #3: Expect a 20% decline in battery performance at 45 degrees vs 65. This
> is definitely a fair-weather machine (although if, as the name implies, it's targeted at Southern
> California, this isn't an issue).

That's ok, because I'm a fair weather rider.

>
> #4: It's questionable how safe it is in traffic, as max speed with motor
> assist is 20 miles per hour. This may not be an issue for many, but if you were riding on a slight
> decline, I'd suggest this is a serious deficiency. Maneuvering downhill, you're essentially on
> your own.

Why would I want the motor on a downhill run? Anyway, I don't generally ride more than 20mph.

>
> #5: Marketing is deceptive; on the page where it states that "LA FREE gives
> you added power" it implies that it can climb a 14% grade. Uh, no. With heavy assistance from
> *you* it will climb up to a 14% grade before the overload sensors kick in and the motor stops.
> Some might even be fooled into thinking it will go up a hill fast, since they talk about speed and
> grade in the same sentence. This is simply not the case. To go up a steep hill will require heavy
> effort on your part. Remember what the FAQ said? Output power increases as *your* power increases.
> You can't just kick back and take it easy up a hill.

I wasn't expecting the bike to do all the work. The motor assists through all 7 gears, and if it
will cut uphill effort in 1st by 50%, then I'll do fine.

>
> #6: Sizing. If you've read much here, you know that huge differences in
> performance and enjoyment come from getting a bike that fits you. The LA FREE bike comes in... one
> size for each model. They, of course, list a huge range of adjustability. You *may* be able to be
> comfortable under such a scheme, but you won't be efficient.

I plan to sit on one, and at least ride it in the showroom parking lot, to make sure it fits me
and I like the pedal effort.

>
> Conclusion- You originally stated
>
> " I have a bad knee, and want a bike that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a
> strong, long-lasting assist in powered mode."
>
> The LA FREE isn't that bike. It's own FAQ says so. Battery and motor technology may eventually get
> there, but it's not there yet (at least not at a price that would give a marketable product).

My idea of "long-lasting" is 10-15 miles. I also expect to put in up to 50% of the effort in
climbing hills. Does that change your assessment?

>
> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>
> "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > >
> > > "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > >
> > > > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
> > > bikes - I
> > > > don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
> > > experience with the
> > > > LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
> > > that is both
> > > > easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
> > > long-lasting
> > > > assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
> > > the bikes, but
> > > > I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
> > > them. Are they
> > > > reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
> > > 18 months if
> > > > cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
> > > Any friendly
> > > > responses would be appreciated.
> > >
> > > There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're
> > > all non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along at
> > > all is going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most even
> > > surface -- especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you have a
> > > bad knee. There's also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain, making the
> > > situation even worse. Plus, if it's not using lightweight battery technology already it will
> > > really weigh a ton! So any bike like this will probably be a disaster from a pedaling
> > > standpoint, and not a very good powered vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent regular
> > > bicycle, and/or a dedicated electric scooter if you want one of those. I rode an Oxygen/Lepton
> > > scooter awhile ago, and it was fantastic.
> > >
> > > Matt O.
> >
> > I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> > extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> > ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this
> > newsgroup for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core
> > bicyclists about a non hard-core bicycle...
> > --
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> > I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> > extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on level
> > ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this
> > newsgroup for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core
> > bicyclists about a non hard-core bicycle...
>
> And in that you may be right.
>
> For the sort of bicycle that you get, the added cost of an electric assist is not really that much
> of an enticement to most bicyclists. For the 'nonserious' (I'll not comment on hardness of core)
> occasional bicyle user, it's just too damned expensive--you can get a bike for US$50, a passably
> good one at US$100-150, and a really good one at US$200-250. Why spend nearly a kilobuck?
>
> For the 'serious' cyclist, the electrical bicycle adds weight, cost, and complication while not
> adding anything particularly useful in return.
>
> If your knee is really that bad, and you are already minded to get the bike, then get it. Merely
> be aware that, absent its electrical capabilities, the bike you're getting is equivalently
> specified to one costing only a little more than a tenth as much, with a great deal of additional
> weight and complexity.
>
> -Luigi

I understand. The bike I've been riding for 15 years is an 18 speed "Gemini" (I think), sold by
Wards. It's a cheap bike, but I don't ask that much of it. If I get the LAF, I won't ask more
than that it lets me run errands and take longer rides than I can now (I'm currently limited to
maybe 6 miles) on mostly level terrain, with a few hills.
--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

> My idea of "long-lasting" is 10-15 miles. I also expect to put in up to 50% of the effort in
> climbing hills. Does that change your assessment?

So essentially what you're looking for is a short-distance commuter or errand bike? Something that
would allow you to "bike" places instead of drive? Sounds like it would work just fine for that!

Regarding your choice of newsgroups, yes, I think you need something more like rec.commute.tech or
rec.alternative.commute (neither of which, far as I know, exist). Hereabouts things are a bit more
closely linked to entirely human-powered two-wheeled transportation. Even recumbents discovered they
didn't quite fit in and needed their own group.

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles http://www.ChainReactionBicycles.com

"Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
> >
> > > I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> > > extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on
> > > level ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this
> > > newsgroup for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core
> > > bicyclists about a non hard-core bicycle...
> >
> > I did look up their website (http://www.powerassist.com/eyeframe5.htm); these bikes still have
> > *serious* deficiencies. Among them-
> >
> > #1: Under *ideal* conditions, max run is 25 miles on the "Lite"
version,
> > just 20 on the standard, and this mileage assumes you're pedaling.
>
> I understand that. When I did 'serious' riding my routes were 10 and 15 miles,and the 15 mile
> route was mostly downhill for the second half. I can live with a 15 mile range.
>
> >
> > #2: Power output declines, apparently rapidly, during the duration of
the
> > ride. In fact, it contains a warning that hill climbing performance may
not
> > be what you expect only 10 miles into a ride (doesn't fit your need for "long lasting" to be
> > sure!).
>
> See above. I want the bike for running 1 or 2 mile errands, and for 10 mile rides in the
> country. The latter would include large hills, but they would be no more than 5 miles into the
> ride.
>
> >
> > #3: Expect a 20% decline in battery performance at 45 degrees vs 65.
This
> > is definitely a fair-weather machine (although if, as the name implies,
it's
> > targeted at Southern California, this isn't an issue).
>
> That's ok, because I'm a fair weather rider.
>
> >
> > #4: It's questionable how safe it is in traffic, as max speed with
motor
> > assist is 20 miles per hour. This may not be an issue for many, but if
you
> > were riding on a slight decline, I'd suggest this is a serious
deficiency.
> > Maneuvering downhill, you're essentially on your own.
>
> Why would I want the motor on a downhill run? Anyway, I don't generally ride more than 20mph.
>
> >
> > #5: Marketing is deceptive; on the page where it states that "LA FREE
gives
> > you added power" it implies that it can climb a 14% grade. Uh, no.
With
> > heavy assistance from *you* it will climb up to a 14% grade before the overload sensors kick in
> > and the motor stops. Some might even be fooled into thinking it will go up a hill fast, since
> > they talk about speed and grade in the same sentence. This is simply not the case. To go up a
steep
> > hill will require heavy effort on your part. Remember what the FAQ
said?
> > Output power increases as *your* power increases. You can't just kick
back
> > and take it easy up a hill.
>
> I wasn't expecting the bike to do all the work. The motor assists through all 7 gears, and if
> it will cut uphill effort in 1st by 50%, then I'll do fine.
>
> >
> > #6: Sizing. If you've read much here, you know that huge differences
in
> > performance and enjoyment come from getting a bike that fits you. The
LA
> > FREE bike comes in... one size for each model. They, of course, list a
huge
> > range of adjustability. You *may* be able to be comfortable under such
a
> > scheme, but you won't be efficient.
>
> I plan to sit on one, and at least ride it in the showroom parking lot, to make sure it fits me
> and I like the pedal effort.
>
> >
> > Conclusion- You originally stated
> >
> > " I have a bad knee, and want a bike that is both easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a
> > strong, long-lasting assist in powered mode."
> >
> > The LA FREE isn't that bike. It's own FAQ says so. Battery and motor technology may eventually
> > get there, but it's not there yet (at least
not at
> > a price that would give a marketable product).
>
> My idea of "long-lasting" is 10-15 miles. I also expect to put in up to 50% of the effort in
> climbing hills. Does that change your assessment?

 

Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>
> > My idea of "long-lasting" is 10-15 miles. I also expect to put in up to 50% of the effort in
> > climbing hills. Does that change your assessment?
>
> So essentially what you're looking for is a short-distance commuter or errand bike? Something that
> would allow you to "bike" places instead of drive? Sounds like it would work just fine for that!

Those, plus 10-15 mile rides in the country, yes. Work is 22.5 miles away, most of it interstate
driving, but there are local errands I can run on a bike - with a little help.

>
> Regarding your choice of newsgroups, yes, I think you need something more like rec.commute.tech or
> rec.alternative.commute (neither of which, far as I know, exist). Hereabouts things are a bit more
> closely linked to entirely human-powered two-wheeled transportation. Even recumbents discovered
> they didn't quite fit in and needed their own group.

I'm a little surprised that there isn't a NG for electric vehicles in general...anyway, thanks
for the input. MC

(...)
--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

> billcotton wrote:
> > Section snip. I have had dreams of having some type of hill assist for many years.
Weight
> > is the enemy for almost every system I have encounter to date. This
includes
> > regenerative electric and hydraulic At least two members on our bicycle club have bought
> > electric assist bicycle, hoping to continue to do club rides as they became older.
Sadly,
> > they could not keep up with the low lever club rides of 11 to 13 mph average. Both just rides
> > alone on their regular bicycle on the flats. At a League of America Bicycle rally in Lancaster
> > PA a few years 12
years
> > ago, a rider equipped his recumbent with a weed whacker gas motor. He
rode
> > the bent from north New Jersey to Lancaster PA, about 200 miles. He was
on
> > the same rally day ride as I, a 11 to 15 mph pace. He only use the
assist
> > for uphill and the pace was about his same as mine, less than 10 mph.
With
> > the weed whacker, the added weigh is minimum, but the noise is too loud
for
> > most of us. Lighter batteries an motors can one day make a different. The segway
uses
> > advance technology with its motors, batteries and designs, still weigh
in at
> > 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/
> > --
> Any specific experience with the LA Free bikes? I know that there are a lot of electric assist
> bikes out there, and that they are not all equal...
No experience with the LA Free Bikes. I visit their web page to find the weight and didn't find
reference to weight. I did see that their dealer allows test rides. One way clutches are common to
assist bicycles, the horse power need to move the total weight is also common. The Wright brothers
couldn't fly until a motor was developed that could lift it own weight plus. Advances in lighter
motors and fuel will make this possible, weed whacker motors now giver the most power vs. added
weight, that is easily available, http://moped2.org/aspforum/display_message.asp?mid=3435

--
// Bill Cotton: Latitude N40° 03.756' W75° 06.192' / / Phone 215 663-8363 Data 215 663-8364 //
[email protected] [email protected] // [email protected] [email protected] //
www.billcotton.com


"Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> billcotton wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > I believe that some of these bikes, including the LA Free, use a one-way clutch to prevent
> > > extra drag from the motor. I understand about the extra weight, but if it rides well on
> > > level ground I'll be using the assist for grades and hills anyway. I'll keep checking this
> > > newsgroup for a couple of days, but I think I may be wasting my time asking hard-core
> > > bicyclists about a non hard-core bicycle...
> > > --
> > Section snip. I have had dreams of having some type of hill assist for many years.
Weight
> > is the enemy for almost every system I have encounter to date. This
includes
> > regenerative electric and hydraulic At least two members on our bicycle club have bought
> > electric assist bicycle, hoping to continue to do club rides as they became older.
Sadly,
> > they could not keep up with the low lever club rides of 11 to 13 mph average. Both just rides
> > alone on their regular bicycle on the flats. At a League of America Bicycle rally in Lancaster
> > PA a few years 12
years
> > ago, a rider equipped his recumbent with a weed whacker gas motor. He
rode
> > the bent from north New Jersey to Lancaster PA, about 200 miles. He was
on
> > the same rally day ride as I, a 11 to 15 mph pace. He only use the
assist
> > for uphill and the pace was about his same as mine, less than 10 mph.
With
> > the weed whacker, the added weigh is minimum, but the noise is too loud
for
> > most of us. Lighter batteries an motors can one day make a different. The segway
uses
> > advance technology with its motors, batteries and designs, still weigh
in at
> > 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/
> > --
> > // Bill Cotton: Latitude N40° 03.756' W75° 06.192' / / Phone 215 663-8363 Data 215 663-8364 //
> > [email protected] [email protected]t.net // [email protected] [email protected]
> > // www.billcotton.com
>
> Any specific experience with the LA Free bikes? I know that there are a lot of electric assist
> bikes out there, and that they are not all equal...
>
>
> >
> > "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > Matt O'Toole wrote:
> > > >
> > > > "Michael Cerkowski" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> > > >
> > > > > Hopefully this is the right newsgroup to ask about hybrid
> > > > bikes - I
> > > > > don't see any for them. Anyway, does anyone have any
> > > > experience with the
> > > > > LA Free Sport bikes? I have a bad knee, and want a bike
> > > > that is both
> > > > > easy to pedal in unpowered mode, and offers a strong,
> > > > long-lasting
> > > > > assist in powered mode. I've read the company's info on
> > > > the bikes, but
> > > > > I'd like to read about some real-world experiences with
> > > > them. Are they
> > > > > reliable and durable? Do the battery packs last at least
> > > > 18 months if
> > > > > cared for properly? Is there a NiMH pack on the horizon?
> > > > Any friendly
> > > > > responses would be appreciated.
> > > >
> > > > There have been a bunch of similar bikes on the market, and as far as I'm concerned they're
> > > > all non-starters. Any bike with an electric motor and battery capable of hauling you along
> > > > at all is going to be very heavy, and a real chore to pedal except on the flattest, most
> > > > even surface -- especially for someone who's not a conditioned cyclist, and moreso if you
> > > > have a bad knee. There's also likely to be extra friction somewhere in the drivetrain,
> > > > making the situation even worse. Plus, if it's not using lightweight battery technology
> > > > already it will really weigh a ton! So any bike like this will probably be a disaster from a
> > > > pedaling standpoint, and not a very good powered vehicle either. I suggest you get a decent
> > > > regular bicycle, and/or a dedicated electric scooter if you want one of those. I rode an
> > > > Oxygen/Lepton scooter awhile ago, and it was fantastic.
> > > >
> > > > Matt O.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html
>
> --
>
>
>
>
>
>
> http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Michael Cerkowski <[email protected]> wrote in message news:

> I understand. The bike I've been riding for 15 years is an 18 speed "Gemini" (I think), sold by
> Wards. It's a cheap bike, but I don't ask that much of it. If I get the LAF, I won't ask more
> than that it lets me run errands and take longer rides than I can now (I'm currently limited to
> maybe 6 miles) on mostly level terrain, with a few hills.

If you're gonna spend that kind of cash on a bicycle, why not find a good local bicycle shop and see
what they have? As other posts on this thread will tell you, knee problems can arise from bad
fitting on a bicycle; a less expensive, but better fitting, bicycle will be more comfortable and
easier on your body.

Learn to shift, as well--knee problems come from pushing very high gears up hills unnecessarily.
spin light and easy; better to be geared a bit too low than a bit too high. www.sheldonbrown.com
will tell you almost everything you need to know in this respect.

-Luigi

 

"billcotton" <[email protected]> wrote:

> Lighter batteries an motors can one day make a different. The segway uses advance technology with
> its motors, batteries and designs, still weigh in at 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/

The Segway's motors have a maximum output of 5000 watts, whereas most electric-assist bikes have
nominal output of 250 to 500 watts.

The LA Free Lite diamond-frame bike weighs 39 lbs, and its NiMH battery pack weighs an additional 9
lbs. That's not too bad considering that the pedal-only equivalent of that bike would probably
exceed 30 lbs.

Chalo Colina

 

Bluto wrote:
>
> "billcotton" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > Lighter batteries an motors can one day make a different. The segway uses advance technology
> > with its motors, batteries and designs, still weigh in at 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/
>
> The Segway's motors have a maximum output of 5000 watts, whereas most electric-assist bikes have
> nominal output of 250 to 500 watts.
>
> The LA Free Lite diamond-frame bike weighs 39 lbs, and its NiMH battery pack weighs an additional
> 9 lbs. That's not too bad considering that the pedal-only equivalent of that bike would probably
> exceed 30 lbs.
>
> Chalo Colina

Thnaks for the info. Do you have a weight for the Sport Slope Tube model? I know it'll be
heavier if only because of the lead acid gel battery, but I'm hoping a NiMH pack will be
available shortly.
--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

billcotton wrote:
>
> > billcotton wrote:
> > > Section snip. I have had dreams of having some type of hill assist for many years.
> Weight
> > > is the enemy for almost every system I have encounter to date. This
> includes
> > > regenerative electric and hydraulic At least two members on our bicycle club have bought
> > > electric assist bicycle, hoping to continue to do club rides as they became older.
> Sadly,
> > > they could not keep up with the low lever club rides of 11 to 13 mph average. Both just rides
> > > alone on their regular bicycle on the flats. At a League of America Bicycle rally in Lancaster
> > > PA a few years 12
> years
> > > ago, a rider equipped his recumbent with a weed whacker gas motor. He
> rode
> > > the bent from north New Jersey to Lancaster PA, about 200 miles. He was
> on
> > > the same rally day ride as I, a 11 to 15 mph pace. He only use the
> assist
> > > for uphill and the pace was about his same as mine, less than 10 mph.
> With
> > > the weed whacker, the added weigh is minimum, but the noise is too loud
> for
> > > most of us. Lighter batteries an motors can one day make a different. The segway
> uses
> > > advance technology with its motors, batteries and designs, still weigh
> in at
> > > 83 pounds. http://www.segway.com/
> > > --
> > Any specific experience with the LA Free bikes? I know that there are a lot of electric
> > assist bikes out there, and that they are not all equal...
> No experience with the LA Free Bikes. I visit their web page to find the weight and didn't find
> reference to weight. I did see that their dealer allows test rides. One way clutches are common to
> assist bicycles, the horse power need to move the total weight is also common. The Wright brothers
> couldn't fly until a motor was developed that could lift it own weight plus. Advances in lighter
> motors and fuel will make this possible, weed whacker motors now giver the most power vs. added
> weight, that is easily available, http://moped2.org/aspforum/display_message.asp?mid=3435

Thanks, but I have no interest in using a dirty two-stroke motor. I'm only interested in
electric assist.

(...)
--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html

 

Luigi de Guzman wrote:
>
> Michael Cerkowski <[email protected]> wrote in message news:
>
> > I understand. The bike I've been riding for 15 years is an 18 speed "Gemini" (I think), sold
> > by Wards. It's a cheap bike, but I don't ask that much of it. If I get the LAF, I won't ask
> > more than that it lets me run errands and take longer rides than I can now (I'm currently
> > limited to maybe 6 miles) on mostly level terrain, with a few hills.
>
> If you're gonna spend that kind of cash on a bicycle, why not find a good local bicycle shop and
> see what they have? As other posts on this thread will tell you, knee problems can arise from bad
> fitting on a bicycle; a less expensive, but better fitting, bicycle will be more comfortable and
> easier on your body.

No amount of fitting or gearing will overcome the problems I have with fatigue - unless there is
an antigravity device out there...?

>
> Learn to shift, as well--knee problems come from pushing very high gears up hills unnecessarily.
> spin light and easy; better to be geared a bit too low than a bit too high. www.sheldonbrown.com
> will tell you almost everything you need to know in this respect.
>
> -Luigi

I do know how to shift. My body makes it quite clear when I'm not using a low enough, gear,
believe me. I take most hills in mid-range 1st, and all large ones in low-range 1st.

--


http://www.albany.net/~mjc1/index.html