La Mongie Rundown...

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Richard Adams, Jul 16, 2004.

  1. Armstrong as good as ever.

    Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden

    Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.

    Voeckler, better than expected.

    Basso, coming of age?

    Heras, not this year.
     
    Tags:


  2. Richard Adams wrote:

    > Armstrong as good as ever.
    > Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    > Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.


    I wonder what happened to Armstrong on the descent of the Aspin...
    I wonder if the body language and positioning of Kloden vs Ullrich
    indicated a change of team leader...Kloden is still ahead of Ullrich.
    Armstrong didn't have the devastating acceleration of old; or rather,
    there were others in the group that could match it.

    CSC face off against USPS in the final week, should be interesting.
    Basso at 59 sec by my calculations with the 20" time bonus.

    > Voeckler, better than expected.


    Last day in yellow, though. My theory about today is that USPS were
    ready for anything and wanted to see what everyone else had. A serious
    attack would have been countered, but most of what they had to do was
    controlled tempo. Tomorrow then as Armstrong indicated, is the most
    significant day. If nobody really brought it today, do they have it for
    tomorrow? If not tomorrow, then the Tour (barring accidents) is over.
     
  3. Michael

    Michael Guest

    "Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Armstrong as good as ever.
    >
    > Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >
    > Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.
    >
    > Voeckler, better than expected.
    >
    > Basso, coming of age?
    >
    > Heras, not this year.


    Ivan Basso looked really comfortable in that climb. He
    might be a contenda.

    M.
     
  4. The Dude

    The Dude Guest

    Richard Adams wrote:
    > Armstrong as good as ever.
    >
    > Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >
    > Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.
    >
    > Voeckler, better than expected.
    >
    > Basso, coming of age?
    >
    > Heras, not this year.


    Will be a bit surprising if Hamilton makes the podium imo.
    Ullrich should ditch the earring it would be less weight to
    carry,clearly he needs all the help he can get.
    Good stage for LA.
    --
     
  5. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Stewart Fleming wrote:
    >
    >
    > Last day in yellow, though. My theory about today is that USPS were
    > ready for anything and wanted to see what everyone else had. A serious
    > attack would have been countered, but most of what they had to do was
    > controlled tempo. Tomorrow then as Armstrong indicated, is the most
    > significant day. If nobody really brought it today, do they have it for
    > tomorrow? If not tomorrow, then the Tour (barring accidents) is over.
    >
    >


    No -- history has shown that when 5-timers blow, they blow hard.

    All it takes is one bad day, and it's a new race.

    Dan
     
  6. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Richard Adams wrote:
    > Armstrong as good as ever.


    Stage 11 - Thursday July 18: Pau - La Mongie, 158 km
    Results
    1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 4.21.57 (36.190 km/h)
    2 Joseba Beloki (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 0.07
    3 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) US Postal Service 0.13
    4 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) iBanesto.com 1.16
    5 Raimondas Rumsas (Ltu) Lampre Daikin
    6 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 1.23
    7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
    8 Andrei Kivilev (Kaz) Cofidis 1.34
    9 Laurent Jalabert (Fra) CSC-Tiscali 1.49
    10 José Azevedo (Por) ONCE-Eroski 1.52

    Stage 12 - July 16: Castelsarrasin - La Mongie, 197.5 km
    1 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 5.03.58
    2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
    3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.20
    4 Francisco Mancebo Pérez (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.24
    5 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 0.33
    6 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.50
    7 Denis Menchov (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.59
    8 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Domina Vacanze 1.02
    9 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 1.03
    10 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
    11 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner
    12 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saeco 1.32


    > Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >


    http://www.cyclingnews.com/results/1998/tour98/stage15.html

    > Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.


    Indeed. It seems at this point Armstrong & Basso are very likely, so Ullrich is
    the favorite for the third.


    > Voeckler, better than expected.


    He's the real deal, obviously.

    >
    > Basso, coming of age?
    >
    > Heras, not this year.


    Coming of age.

    The key issue is the effect of the cold on the results today (see previous link).

    Dan
     
  7. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]
    > Stewart Fleming wrote:
    > >
    > >
    > > Last day in yellow, though. My theory about today is that USPS were
    > > ready for anything and wanted to see what everyone else had. A serious
    > > attack would have been countered, but most of what they had to do was
    > > controlled tempo. Tomorrow then as Armstrong indicated, is the most
    > > significant day. If nobody really brought it today, do they have it for
    > > tomorrow? If not tomorrow, then the Tour (barring accidents) is over.
    > >
    > >

    >
    > No -- history has shown that when 5-timers blow, they blow hard.


    Recent history, yes. Hinault "blew hard" right in to second place. The
    others are so far back in history that you can't learn anything from them.
    The training and diet knowledge were nothing close to what is known now.
    Future Tour champions are much more likely to fade like Hinault rather than
    get blown like Indurain. The only difference between the 2 is one bad day
    that Miguel had. That hardly proves anything.


    > All it takes is one bad day, and it's a new race.
    >
    > Dan
    >
     
  8. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    Chris wrote:
    > "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]
    >
    >>Stewart Fleming wrote:
    >>
    >>>
    >>>Last day in yellow, though. My theory about today is that USPS were
    >>>ready for anything and wanted to see what everyone else had. A serious
    >>>attack would have been countered, but most of what they had to do was
    >>>controlled tempo. Tomorrow then as Armstrong indicated, is the most
    >>>significant day. If nobody really brought it today, do they have it for
    >>>tomorrow? If not tomorrow, then the Tour (barring accidents) is over.
    >>>
    >>>

    >>
    >>No -- history has shown that when 5-timers blow, they blow hard.

    >
    >
    > Recent history, yes. Hinault "blew hard" right in to second place.


    Indurain also blew very hard.

    They all did, AFAIK.

    Dan
     
  9. John Everett

    John Everett Guest

    On Fri, 16 Jul 2004 10:25:26 -0500, "Michael"
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    >
    >"Richard Adams" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    >news:[email protected]
    >> Armstrong as good as ever.
    >>
    >> Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >>
    >> Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.
    >>
    >> Voeckler, better than expected.
    >>
    >> Basso, coming of age?
    >>
    >> Heras, not this year.

    >
    >Ivan Basso looked really comfortable in that climb. He
    >might be a contenda.


    As Phil (or was it Paul) was saying that Lance wouldn't give Basso the
    stage win, I was thinking, "Let's see...half hour of posing for
    pictures, kissing podium girls, and shaking hands with tour poobahs;
    or lose 8 seconds and quickly get started on a nice massage?"


    jeverett3<AT>earthlink<DOT>net http://home.earthlink.net/~jeverett3
     
  10. Dan Connelly

    Dan Connelly Guest

    John Everett wrote:
    > As Phil (or was it Paul) was saying that Lance wouldn't give Basso the
    > stage win, I was thinking, "Let's see...half hour of posing for
    > pictures, kissing podium girls, and shaking hands with tour poobahs;
    > or lose 8 seconds and quickly get started on a nice massage?"
    >


    Take the half hour and the stage win.

    Basso won because he was faster.

    Dan
     
  11. Doug Taylor

    Doug Taylor Guest

    [email protected] (Richard Adams) wrote:

    >Armstrong as good as ever.
    >
    >Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >
    >Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.
    >
    >Voeckler, better than expected.
    >
    >Basso, coming of age?
    >
    >Heras, not this year.


    Leipheimer - showing he deserves the Olympic selection and maybe
    moving up to #2 for American hope for two on the podium in Paris.

    Julich - you all wrote me off so f*** you.

    --dt
     
  12. Jenko

    Jenko Guest

    Dan Connelly wrote:
    > Richard Adams wrote:
    >
    >> Armstrong as good as ever.

    >
    >
    > Stage 11 - Thursday July 18: Pau - La Mongie, 158 km
    > Results
    > 1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 4.21.57
    > (36.190 km/h)
    > 2 Joseba Beloki (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 0.07
    > 3 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) US Postal Service 0.13
    > 4 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) iBanesto.com 1.16
    > 5 Raimondas Rumsas (Ltu) Lampre Daikin
    > 6 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 1.23
    > 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
    > 8 Andrei Kivilev (Kaz) Cofidis 1.34
    > 9 Laurent Jalabert (Fra) CSC-Tiscali 1.49
    > 10 José Azevedo (Por) ONCE-Eroski 1.52


    Last 10K: 27'50" (according to RBR)

    > Stage 12 - July 16: Castelsarrasin - La Mongie, 197.5 km
    > 1 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 5.03.58
    > 2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
    > 3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.20
    > 4 Francisco Mancebo Pérez (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.24
    > 5 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 0.33
    > 6 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.50
    > 7 Denis Menchov (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.59
    > 8 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Domina Vacanze 1.02
    > 9 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 1.03
    > 10 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
    > 11 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner
    > 12 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saeco 1.32


    Last 10K: 27'40" (according to my VCR)

    Jenko
     
  13. Dan Connelly wrote:
    > Chris wrote:
    >
    >> "Dan Connelly" <[email protected]_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message
    >> news:[email protected]
    >>
    >>> Stewart Fleming wrote:
    >>>
    >>>>
    >>>> Last day in yellow, though. My theory about today is that USPS were
    >>>> ready for anything and wanted to see what everyone else had. A serious
    >>>> attack would have been countered, but most of what they had to do was
    >>>> controlled tempo. Tomorrow then as Armstrong indicated, is the most
    >>>> significant day. If nobody really brought it today, do they have it
    >>>> for
    >>>> tomorrow? If not tomorrow, then the Tour (barring accidents) is over.
    >>>>
    >>>>
    >>>
    >>> No -- history has shown that when 5-timers blow, they blow hard.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Recent history, yes. Hinault "blew hard" right in to second place.

    >
    >
    > Indurain also blew very hard.
    >


    This is why it was such a nifty tactical move to let BLB defend the MJ
    for a week rather than Postal.
     
  14. The Dude wrote:

    > Richard Adams wrote:
    >
    >> Armstrong as good as ever.
    >>
    >> Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >>
    >> Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for
    >> podium.
    >>
    >> Voeckler, better than expected.
    >>
    >> Basso, coming of age?
    >>
    >> Heras, not this year.

    >
    >
    > Will be a bit surprising if Hamilton makes the podium imo.
    > Ullrich should ditch the earring it would be less weight to
    > carry,clearly he needs all the help he can get.
    > Good stage for LA.
    > --



    Ullrich's goofing off has caught up with him. Training is all very well
    and good, but there's no substitute for racing. I wonder if he ever
    thought of training behind a bunch of blue scooters going up a hill,
    faster and faster and training not to get dropped.
     
  15. Jenko wrote:

    > Dan Connelly wrote:
    >
    >> Richard Adams wrote:
    >>
    >>> Armstrong as good as ever.

    >>
    >>
    >>
    >> Stage 11 - Thursday July 18: Pau - La Mongie, 158 km
    >> Results
    >> 1 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal Service 4.21.57
    >> (36.190 km/h)
    >> 2 Joseba Beloki (Spa) ONCE-Eroski 0.07
    >> 3 Roberto Heras Hernandez (Spa) US Postal Service 0.13
    >> 4 Francisco Mancebo (Spa) iBanesto.com 1.16
    >> 5 Raimondas Rumsas (Ltu) Lampre Daikin
    >> 6 Oscar Sevilla (Spa) Kelme-Costa Blanca 1.23
    >> 7 Ivan Basso (Ita) Fassa Bortolo
    >> 8 Andrei Kivilev (Kaz) Cofidis 1.34
    >> 9 Laurent Jalabert (Fra) CSC-Tiscali 1.49
    >> 10 José Azevedo (Por) ONCE-Eroski 1.52

    >
    >
    > Last 10K: 27'50" (according to RBR)
    >
    >> Stage 12 - July 16: Castelsarrasin - La Mongie, 197.5 km
    >> 1 Ivan Basso (Ita) Team CSC 5.03.58
    >> 2 Lance Armstrong (USA) US Postal p/b Berry Floor
    >> 3 Andreas Klöden (Ger) T-Mobile Team 0.20
    >> 4 Francisco Mancebo Pérez (Spa) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.24
    >> 5 Carlos Sastre (Spa) Team CSC 0.33
    >> 6 Oscar Pereiro (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems 0.50
    >> 7 Denis Menchov (Rus) Illes Balears - Banesto 0.59
    >> 8 Michele Scarponi (Ita) Domina Vacanze 1.02
    >> 9 Iban Mayo (Spa) Euskaltel - Euskadi 1.03
    >> 10 Santos Gonzalez (Spa) Phonak Hearing Systems
    >> 11 Georg Totschnig (Aut) Gerolsteiner
    >> 12 Gilberto Simoni (Ita) Saeco 1.32

    >
    >
    > Last 10K: 27'40" (according to my VCR)
    >
    > Jenko


    Indeed. Lance isn't worse, he's as good as ever, but other riders are
    better than they have been. Keep looking over that shoulder as you get
    older, some day some young buck won't get dropped and you'll learn the
    face of the next champion.

    Basso's been finishing the tour strong for some time and he's maturing.
    Tomorrow should say a lot more about who Lance really has to watch out
    for.
     
  16. Howard Kveck

    Howard Kveck Guest

    In article <[email protected]>,
    [email protected] (Richard Adams) wrote:

    > Armstrong as good as ever.


    He did seem to have to work for it at the very end, though.

    > Ullrich not there, shown up by teammate Andreas Kloden
    >
    > Hamilton not there either and will have some serious competition for podium.
    >
    > Voeckler, better than expected.


    He's hanging in there way better than many would have expected. I think
    he'll start dropping back soon, but this may be an indicator of future
    greatness (or maybe just "goodness").

    >
    > Basso, coming of age?


    He was very good today. He may indeed be "coming of age". A few days ago
    I wrote this of Riis/CSC:
    "But he does have Sastre and Basso. I don't see them as being winners
    this year (or even podium, but they could be close), but I think they have
    the talent to do it in the next few years."

    If Basso continues to ride like he did today, he will very thoroughly
    exceed my expectations of him. I hope he does.

    > Heras, not this year.


    One point I haven't seen mentioned here yet is that perhaps some of the
    other contenders eased up a bit today once they saw how Armstrong and Basso
    were going, rather than hammering to keep up. They may have figured that it
    was better to lose a minute or two today on a hard stage and conserve some
    energy so they have more in the tank tomorrow on a very hard stage (where
    they could run the risk of losing several minutes).

    --
    tanx,
    Howard

    So far, so good, so what?

    remove YOUR SHOES to reply, ok?
     
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