Lab admits to "errors" but still says Landis is in the doghouse...



I am tired with all those lawyers. They were present when the sample B was monitored, they saw Landis signature on. If they didn't saw mistake during the measures, Floyd and his lawyers need to find a scientist explanation to his positivity. Winning on a bad technicality, he will always stay "dirty" and I will feel me stolen a second times.
With a good explanation, we all will win.
 
It's a very weak argument - a typo with regard to the serial number.

His lawyers will try to make a case of it.
Futile in my opinion.
Pyrrhic victory at very best.

It won't rebutt the evidence that Landis was 3 times over the testosterone threshold.
It won't rebutt the fact that Landis is regarded as a cheat throughout the sport.
It won't rebutt the fact that Phonak had to fold ultimately because Landis cheated and 23 employees of the Phonak cycling team lost their jobs.
 
Its always amusing how cowards huff and puff behind the security of their keyboards. Must be due to some deep seated insecurity complex I'd say. Poor WBT, what a burden you must be on your family. I pity them :(
 
limerickman said:
It's a very weak argument - a typo with regard to the serial number.

His lawyers will try to make a case of it.
Futile in my opinion.
Pyrrhic victory at very best.

It won't rebutt the evidence that Landis was 3 times over the testosterone threshold.
It won't rebutt the fact that Landis is regarded as a cheat throughout the sport.
It won't rebutt the fact that Phonak had to fold ultimately because Landis cheated and 23 employees of the Phonak cycling team lost their jobs.
I doubt Landis was considered a cheat throughout the sport.

Phanok had problems before that and was on th eway out before the tDF.
 
Serafino said:
Its always amusing how cowards huff and puff behind the security of their keyboards. Must be due to some deep seated insecurity complex I'd say. Poor WBT, what a burden you must be on your family. I pity them
Pot, meet kettle.
 
wolfix said:
I doubt Landis was considered a cheat throughout the sport.

Phanok had problems before that and was on th eway out before the tDF.


The owner of Phonak was getting out. He was frustrated after the Hamilton scandal and tired of a the red tape involved.
If was a hobby and a passion for the billionaire that went bad.
 
Yeah, Phonak was gone regardless of Landis, but I think Phonak/iShares had far more problems than just Floyd and his positive.
And now that more and more information is coming out, we'll just have to wait and see who's considered a cheat.
First the results are leaked, then hacking, now a typo....
Did the information about the typo come out before or after the hacking story?
If it came out after, it makes you wonder if it was a case of the lab saying: "Let's tell them about the typo before the hacker does." And if that's the case, what else isn't the lab hiding?
Hey, you were right, this conspricy stuff is fun.
 
jhuskey said:
The owner of Phonak was getting out. He was frustrated after the Hamilton scandal and tired of a the red tape involved.
If was a hobby and a passion for the billionaire that went bad.
Yep shows you what happens when a stupid billionaire gets involved.... we need more ex-cyclists running teams so the systematic doping can be run properly without fear of being caught....
 
They all dope, and it's Armstrong's fault. Why do you single out Landis for abuse? He's a good-hearted doper. I will criticize him on the day that the rest of the pros all come out at once and admit: "Yes, we all cheat, but at least we weren't stupid enough to win the Tour de France and then get caught at it."
 
wolfix said:
I doubt Landis was considered a cheat throughout the sport.

You're absolutely right about that. On the surface other riders may pretend to shun Landis in an effort to protect their own images. But once he's served his suspension (or if he's somehow cleared) he'll be welcomed back into the peloton with open arms by all of his fellow dopers the same way Millar and Virenque and many others were. Landis is only considered a cheat by people outside of the sport. He's the same as everyone else inside.

Allegations that he'll be "shunned" in the peloton and excalmations that that "they caught the lousy dope cheat" are incredibly laughable. They'll strip the title from Landis and hand it to the next doper in line because they didn't screw-up and get caught. And that's that.
 
All the same, one has to admire the hubris shown by LNDD. There was a problem identifying samples, but it did not affect the analysis, just the person being accused.

Reminds me of an old saying in the former Soviet bloc nations: the problem is fatal, but not serious.
 
whiteboytrash said:
Yep shows you what happens when a stupid billionaire gets involved.... we need more ex-cyclists running teams so the systematic doping can be run properly without fear of being caught....


He didn't manage the team,he did sponsor it. He was a patron of the sport and in my opinion we will need more of his like to keep up the sponsorship in the future.
Did he know about the doping? We will propably never know but I like to believe that he didn't.
 
wolfix said:
I doubt Landis was considered a cheat throughout the sport.

Phanok had problems before that and was on th eway out before the tDF.

Granted Phonak did have problems prior to Landis : but the team and it's owner gave iron clad assurances that no one would repeat the activity of Hamilton and Santiago.

And as regards Landis's cheating during the 2006 TDF : it was evident that given he had died the previous day.
To come out the following day and to destroy the field looked suspicious at the time.
The test results confirmed those suspicions.

Personally I like Landis, I think he's a fine rider.
Why he chose to go down that route makes me wonder.
 
This just in from EuroSport: "Santiago Botero, suspended in connection to the Fuentes doping affair for most of 2006, has signed with Colombian-based EPM-Orbitel.
Botero was given the clearance to race by his Colombian Cycling Federation on November 11, "because of a lack of evidence," according to the president of his disciplinary hearing Carlos Vargas."

This 'lack of evidence' thing seems to be contagious.
 
Lim,

Can you point to any studies which indicate that testosterone would work so wonderfully over a 24 hour period? I assume your implication is that we can clean on the day he struggled and on drugs when he destroyed the field.

You aren't seriously suggesting that it can have such a dramatic overnight effect are you?
 
Serafino said:
Lim,

Can you point to any studies which indicate that testosterone would work so wonderfully over a 24 hour period? I assume your implication is that we can clean on the day he struggled and on drugs when he destroyed the field.

You aren't seriously suggesting that it can have such a dramatic overnight effect are you?
zzz zzzz zzzz zzzz - I can point you to a myriad of studies pointing towards the use of testosterone as a key product in a full doping program. Just because Mr. Landis got nabbed on T means that this was the one product he polled high on. Let it be know from the Fuentes files and other such evidence that testosterone is used in conjunction with other drugs mainly in transfusions. To think that he only used testosterone in isolation and then claim that he wouldn't have got the lift from this that he displayed enroute to Morzine is just plain naive. Fact remains Landis has a positive A and B to defend himself against for testosterone. Good luck to him because he's going to need it.
 
Thanks for not answering my question. He was tested repeatedly prior to the alleged positive. All tests were negative. The inference being that he needed a little extra something on the day in response to bonking on the day before. Talk of patches and so forth. The fact remains that testosterone is most effective when taken long term. Its not a shot of jet fuel to be taken on any specific day.

I think that he'll win his case and I wouldn't be surprised if there was some tampering or gross incompetence at the lab in this particular case. Perfect rationale to try to frame someone. Look, they just destroyed the field after having bonked the day before. They "must" be on something.

As for Thor, the odds are quite high that a sprinter would benefit tremendously from a drug program. Can you "prove" that he's clean? "Rumours" abound that he's dirty. Why doesn't he voluntarily submit to a DNA test. Why should the rule of law and the presumption of innocence prevail?

Or is it only Americans who use drugs WBT in your opinion?

P.S. Point to just one reputable study which would show such an overwhelming effect of one day's testosterone usage, zero to hero in one day. No need for a "myriad" of studies. Just one will suffice.
 
Quite simply the Norwegian cycling federation requires all of its athletes to submit blood samples to monitor blood parameters and hemocrit levels on a monthly basis. Any anomalies or changes in state then big Thor is pulled in to explain the UCI are informed along with WADA. Big Thor also pisses once a month for them. Something the US cycling federation doesn't do and never will do. Their athletes can hook up to what every kit that want, inject what they want, see whatever doctor they want, live where they want and not answer a single question or submit a single test to the their federation. Now tell me the differences between Landis and Thor ? If you want to bring country specifics into it then lets match up Norway’s drug policy v USA. Do you really want to do it ? Do we really want to bring up the lengths Norway have gone to legislate against drug trafficking in sports ? Why ? Because the repent use of EPO and blood doping in the 90's in winter sports led the country to take a proactive role in the abolishment of drug use. Something the US has failed to do despite the litany of failed test in sports from athletics to football to cycling to baseball to... the list goes on. No conspiracies my friend just fact.

Other countries ?
France ? Note Cofidis trial to see how serious they are. The UK ? Miller told not to use questionable doctors or he loses his license. US ? Nothing. Diddly squat. You brought up and now you got your answer…. The US cycling federation doesn’t care about drug use otherwise it would employ similar systems used in Italy, Spain, France, Norway the UK and Australia.

Serafino said:
As for Thor, the odds are quite high that a sprinter would benefit tremendously from a drug program. Can you "prove" that he's clean? "Rumours" abound that he's dirty. Why doesn't he voluntarily submit to a DNA test. Why should the rule of law and the presumption of innocence prevail?

Or is it only Americans who use drugs WBT in your opinion?
 
Serafino said:
Thanks for not answering my question. He was tested repeatedly prior to the alleged positive. All tests were negative. The inference being that he needed a little extra something on the day in response to bonking on the day before. Talk of patches and so forth. The fact remains that testosterone is most effective when taken long term. Its not a shot of jet fuel to be taken on any specific day.
You have only 2 big options when a pro rider is caught:
- he is a stupid man,
- mistake with his doping program
Testosterone is used on long term by riders.

Floyd's case, two samples were tested positive with coherent values as say specialists. Lab errors are very improbable for the measurement!
So, Floyd were not positive for the other days, because no CIR test was done. The CIR test, very expensive and long, is only done when the ratio EpiT/T is incorrect.
So, athletes play to have the good ratio EpiT/ T to be not caught!