lame fattie masters



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B

Bret Wade

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Ilan Vardi wrote:

> As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too much
> doubt that a large percentage of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
> backmarkers.

What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a handful
of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on. Are there expatriate fattie
masters meeting you for rides at Vincennes, feeding you the inside scoop?

I'm not so naive as to think there is no drug use in masters racing, but I believe the majority are
clean. I've never seen any first hand evidence of drug use.

> -ilan
>
> P.S. "lame fattie master" = redundant twice over.

What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS Masters
guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your wheel until you
popped them? If not, what makes you think you know anything about this?

At least Kurgan has some experience upon which to base his odd notions.

Bret
 
W

Warren

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, Bret Wade
<[email protected]> wrote:

> Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
> > As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too much
> > doubt that a large percentage of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
> > backmarkers.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
> certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a
> handful of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on. Are there
> expatriate fattie masters meeting you for rides at Vincennes, feeding you the inside scoop?
>
> I'm not so naive as to think there is no drug use in masters racing, but I believe the majority
> are clean. I've never seen any first hand evidence of drug use.

I know 3 guys who are at the top of the sport in the 40-55 age groups and none of them are using
drugs to win unless you consider a single RedBull drink as cheating. If you really get to know them,
they simply don't care enough about the wins to take drugs or cheat in some other way. They race to
win, but the wins aren't their primary motivation. Among most of the guys I see in the top 15 in 35+
and 45+ races around here their placings are no surprise. They've got good genetics, mostly sound
training, and they achieve similar success in their work.

>
> > -ilan
> >
> > P.S. "lame fattie master" = redundant twice over.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS Masters
> guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your wheel until you
> popped them? If not, what makes you think you know anything about this?

Yeah, that Larry Nolan weighs 210 lbs! How can he be one of the best 45-year old racers in the
country and weigh that much?

-WG
 
S

Suz

Guest
"Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> "PedalChick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > I heard the same thing about the 40-44 group - apparently there was a smooth rotating paceline
> > going on in that TT... when you look at the results, there's probably a group of guys
> > significantly faster than everyone else, but 30 seconds apart, or thereabouts.

Ya know, there are several guys who are close to 30 seconds apart! :)

Aside from road guards at one
> T-intersection and people at the turnaround, that was the only official presence I saw on the
> whole course.
>

I think I saw 2 moto officials. I don't get the cheating thing either. It's not like the stakes are
SO high, even if you win, all you get is a gold-colored medal and a jersey that will probably be on
sale at Performance next year. (Still, it's nice to have, even though it's too big... :)

What did you guys think of the guy who brought his BIKE to the podium, and then proceeded to hold up
the ceremonies while he got several extra pictures taken of him and his BIKE on the PODIUM. He
didn't even win, I think he was 3rd. The winner had to step around the guy's BIKE to get to his spot
on the podium. What a hoser. Hope that wasn't any of you guys.

Suz
 
I

Ilan Vardi

Guest
Bret Wade <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
> > As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too much
> > doubt that a large percentage of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
> > backmarkers.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
> certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a
> handful of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on.

When I wrote "large percentage", I meant one or two guys. That seems large enough, given the meaning
of masters racing. How is that for not admitting I was wrong?

> What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS Masters
> guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your wheel until you
> popped them? If not, what makes you think you know anything about this?

I rode against them at the track. Some were much faster than me, but some them weighed over 200 lbs,
not all of which was muscle.

-ilan
 
D

Davey Crockett

Guest
Bret Wade <[email protected]> writes:

> Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
>> As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too much
>> doubt that a large percentage of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
>> backmarkers.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
> certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a
> handful of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on. Are there
> expatriate fattie masters meeting you for rides at Vincennes, feeding you the inside scoop?
>
> I'm not so naive as to think there is no drug use in masters racing, but I believe the majority
> are clean. I've never seen any first hand evidence of drug use.
>
>> -ilan
>> P.S. "lame fattie master" = redundant twice over.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS Masters
> guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your wheel until you
> popped them? If not, what makes you think you know anything about this?
>
> At least Kurgan has some experience upon which to base his odd notions.
>

Great post Bret.

Some wannabee, no-hoper, neverwozzer ****** that thinks Bobet was on Coppi's squad, and tries to con
the RBR crowd into thinking he knows it all, wouldn't know Sh!t about Sh!t.

--
le vent a Dos

Davey Crockett
 
M

Mark Fennell

Guest
[email protected] (Bret Wade) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
>
> I once saw a woman who is a many time world champion cheat in a small local time trial in Colorado
> by drafting one of the cat 1 men. She did this despite the fact that she was going to take 2
> minutes out of her closest competition anyway. I figured that there were several possible
> explanations:
>
> 1. still a little unclear about the rules after two decades of elite racing
> 2. winning by less than 2 minutes would have been embarrassing
> 3. needed practice cheating for when it might actually be useful
> 4. curious about whether the officials were brave enough to do anything
> 5. for some, cheating is a compulsive behavior with no logical explanation
>
> Bret

I hate to use his name in a thread titled "lame fattie masters", but I'm reminded of an incident a
few years ago that my friend Lindsay Blount had with Jeannie Longo. He was off the front in the
Masters 40+ at the Visalia Road Race (R.I.P.) and he overtook the P12 women's field. He went right
through on the climb but Jeannie latched on and got away from her field. Apparently she pulled
really fast on the flat part and the two of them got a big gap. Soon the moto official came up and
told them to separate. According to Lindsay, after talking it over in broken English/French, they
decided to continue on together anyway. Lindsay was pretty sure he'd be DQ'ed but he thought the
opportunity to ride with Jeannie was worth it. One can only wonder why Jeannie went along with it,
considering she would have won a few hundred dollars easily. (BTW, they did stay away.)

Mark
 

Carl Sundquist

New Member
Jul 18, 2003
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0
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Originally posted by Mark Fennell
I hate to use his name in a thread titled "lame fattie masters", but I'm reminded of an incident a
few years ago that my friend Lindsay Blount had with Jeannie Longo. He was off the front in the
Masters 40+ at the Visalia Road Race (R.I.P.) and he overtook the P12 women's field. He went right
through on the climb but Jeannie latched on and got away from her field. Apparently she pulled
really fast on the flat part and the two of them got a big gap. Soon the moto official came up and
told them to separate. According to Lindsay, after talking it over in broken English/French, they
decided to continue on together anyway. Lindsay was pretty sure he'd be DQ'ed but he thought the
opportunity to ride with Jeannie was worth it. One can only wonder why Jeannie went along with it,
considering she would have won a few hundred dollars easily. (BTW, they did stay away.)
[/B]

It's possible that the women's race was not challenging enough for her, and like like your buddy, it was worth a possible DQ to get in the effort she felt she needed for the day.
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I hate to use his name in a thread titled "lame fattie masters", but I'm reminded of an incident a
> few years ago that my friend Lindsay Blount

Why? It's a good title.

>had with Jeannie Longo. He was off the front in the Masters 40+ at the Visalia Road Race (R.I.P.)
>and he overtook the P12 women's field. He went right through on the climb but Jeannie latched on
>and got away from her field. Apparently she pulled really fast on the flat part and the two of them
>got a big gap. Soon the moto official came up and told them to separate. According to Lindsay,
>after talking it over in broken English/French, they decided to continue on together anyway.
>Lindsay was pretty sure he'd be DQ'ed but he thought the opportunity to ride with Jeannie was worth
>it. One can only wonder why Jeannie went along with it, considering she would have won a few
>hundred dollars easily.

Some things are better than money.

>(BTW, they did stay away.)

Like that.

As much as some Masters Fatties would like to imagine they are only one step away from professional
status with their winnings, what we really take with us from cycling in the long run are the
memories. Props to your friend Lindsay.
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"Mark Fennell" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> I hate to use his name in a thread titled "lame fattie masters", but I'm reminded of an incident a
> few years ago that my friend Lindsay Blount

Why? It's a good title.

>had with Jeannie Longo. He was off the front in the Masters 40+ at the Visalia Road Race (R.I.P.)
>and he overtook the P12 women's field. He went right through on the climb but Jeannie latched on
>and got away from her field. Apparently she pulled really fast on the flat part and the two of them
>got a big gap. Soon the moto official came up and told them to separate. According to Lindsay,
>after talking it over in broken English/French, they decided to continue on together anyway.
>Lindsay was pretty sure he'd be DQ'ed but he thought the opportunity to ride with Jeannie was worth
>it. One can only wonder why Jeannie went along with it, considering she would have won a few
>hundred dollars easily.

Some things are better than money.

>(BTW, they did stay away.)

Like that.

As much as some Masters Fatties would like to imagine they are only one step away from professional
status with their winnings, what we really take with us from cycling in the long run are the
memories. Props to your friend Lindsay.
 
S

Scott Hendricks

Guest
Bret Wade <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Ilan Vardi wrote:
>
> > As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too much
> > doubt that a large percentage of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
> > backmarkers.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
> certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a
> handful of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on. Are there
> expatriate fattie masters meeting you for rides at Vincennes, feeding you the inside scoop?
>
> I'm not so naive as to think there is no drug use in masters racing, but I believe the majority
> are clean. I've never seen any first hand evidence of drug use.
>
> > -ilan
> >
> > P.S. "lame fattie master" = redundant twice over.
>
> What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS Masters
> guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your wheel until you
> popped them? If not, what makes you think you know anything about this?
>
> At least Kurgan has some experience upon which to base his odd notions.
>
> Bret

does tequila count as a performance enhancer?
 
P

Precious Pup

Guest
Kurgan Gringioni wrote:
>
> "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:060820032229231405%[email protected]...
> >
> > Yeah, that Larry Nolan weighs 210 lbs! How can he be one of the best 45-year old racers in the
> > country and weigh that much?
>
> That's easy. Because his weight is very close to the mean in that group.

Perhaps his weight is indeed "high" -- I suppose I'll take Warren's word for it. But he isn't the
prototypical fat guy you are thinking of. The dude is very muscular and powerfully built. You don't
win Nevada City if you have a poor power-to-weight ratio; no, not even in the 45+ group.

Nevada City Classic Nevada City, CA, 6/15/2003

Master 45+, Field 22 1 Lawrence Nolan US Postal Service Masters Cycling Team 2 Wayne Stetina US
Postal Service Masters Cycling Team 3 Paul Wolfe 4 Glen Winkel US Postal Service Masters Cycling
Team 5 Brian McGuire 6 Mark Caldwell 7 Roger Marquis 8 Kent Bostick 9 Stan Urban 10 David Covington
crc/travelocity
 
A

Andrew Martin

Guest
"Suz" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...
> "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "PedalChick" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> > > I heard the same thing about the 40-44 group - apparently there was a smooth rotating paceline
> > > going on in that TT... when you look at the results, there's probably a group of guys
> > > significantly faster than everyone else, but 30 seconds apart, or thereabouts.
>
> Ya know, there are several guys who are close to 30 seconds apart! :)
>
> Aside from road guards at one
> > T-intersection and people at the turnaround, that was the only official presence I saw on the
> > whole course.
> >
>
> I think I saw 2 moto officials. I don't get the cheating thing either. It's not like the stakes
> are SO high, even if you win, all you get is a gold-colored medal and a jersey that will probably
> be on sale at Performance next year. (Still, it's nice to have, even though it's too big... :)
>
> What did you guys think of the guy who brought his BIKE to the podium, and then proceeded to hold
> up the ceremonies while he got several extra pictures taken of him and his BIKE on the PODIUM. He
> didn't even win, I think he was 3rd. The winner had to step around the guy's BIKE to get to his
> spot on the podium. What a hoser. Hope that wasn't any of you guys.
>
> Suz

Suz - where's the pic of YOU with the jersey on? The only pics I see on NWRaceReport are of you
getting ready to start, then some old guy getting a jersey who I don't even know. Get Eric on it.

-a
 
B

Bart

Guest
"K. J. Papai" <[email protected]> wrote

> You're pretty much full of **** on this one Ilan. Talking out your ass without any way to back it
> up; being completely removed (academic) from the subject.
>

Dumbass -

The Tour is over. Get back to your closets before I lose my patience.

Thanks,

Ronde Gringioni
 
I

Ilan Vardi

Guest
Davey Crockett <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]rs.com>...
>
> Some wannabee, no-hoper, neverwozzer ****** that thinks Bobet was on Coppi's squad, and tries to
> con the RBR crowd into thinking he knows it all, wouldn't know Sh!t about Sh!t.

> --
> le vent a Dos

Speaking of which, what does "le vent a Dos" mean?

-ilan
 
B

Bret Wade

Guest
[email protected] (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> Bret Wade <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:<[email protected]>...
> > Ilan Vardi wrote:
> >
> > > As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too much
> > > doubt that a large percentage of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
> > > backmarkers.
> >
> > What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
> > certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a
> > handful of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on.
>
> When I wrote "large percentage", I meant one or two guys. That seems large enough, given the
> meaning of masters racing. How is that for not admitting I was wrong?

I'll take that as a retraction. And as an admission that your mathematical abilities have been
greatly exagerated? :)

>
> > What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS Masters
> > guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your wheel until
> > you popped them? If not, what makes you think you know anything about this?
>
> I rode against them at the track. Some were much faster than me, but some them weighed over 200
> lbs, not all of which was muscle.

Some masters are fat. A large percentage are not. Those who can't control their weight leave the
sport. I know two former cat 1s who no longer race because of obesity. I think that both wish they
still could. One of them won the elite race at Durango Silverton once upon a time.

Bret

>
> -ilan
 
D

Didier A. Depir

Guest
T

Tony

Guest
"Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> "Andrew" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > "Andy Coggan" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > > My question is, what would motivate some lame fattie master to attempt to cheat during an ITT?
> > > It's not like the guy had any
> hope
> > > of making the podium...
> >
> > Were there prizes by age group? He/they may have been gunning for one of those.
>
> Of course (that's why it is called master nationals). But this guy finished more than 10 min back
> of 1st place, and more than 6 min back of a podium spot.
>
> Andy Coggan

Maybe his ride home was leaving!
 
K

Kurgan Gringion

Guest
"Bret Wade" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> [email protected] (Ilan Vardi) wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > Bret Wade <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:<[email protected]>...
> > > Ilan Vardi wrote:
> > >
> > > > As for Masters racing, more intriguing is the drug question, as there is probably not too
> > > > much doubt that a large
percentage
> > > > of the riders are high on all kinds of stuff, including the
backmarkers.
> > >
> > > What makes you think you know anything about this? I'm right in the middle of it and I'm only
> > > certain about one guy, and that's based on circumstantial and 2nd hand evidence. There are a
> > > handful of guys I suspect, but I don't even have a good rumor to base that on.
> >
> > When I wrote "large percentage", I meant one or two guys. That seems large enough, given the
> > meaning of masters racing. How is that for not admitting I was wrong?
>
> I'll take that as a retraction. And as an admission that your mathematical abilities have been
> greatly exagerated? :)
>
> >
> > > What makes you think you know anything about this? Were you constantly dropping the USPS
> > > Masters guys on the morning ride while you were at Stanford? Did they suffer badly on your
> > > wheel until you popped them?
If
> > > not, what makes you think you know anything about this?
> >
> > I rode against them at the track. Some were much faster than me, but
some
> > them weighed over 200 lbs, not all of which was muscle.
>
> Some masters are fat. A large percentage are not.

A large percentage allow the one pound/year rule get them.

The best ones don't. Look at Chris Walker.
 
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