Lance and Bicycling

[James P. Spoone]

I completely agree, however if you were Vino or Hamilton would you risk your entire season on
winning the Tour de France? I would if I were Lance or Jan. What about Mayo? I think Hamilton will
try this year which I think is an error but I hope I'm wrong. I also would have a tough time calling
third place in the Tour losing.

James

"Dan Connelly" <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote in message news:4033F553.60501@i_e_e_e.o_r_g...
> This is a silly example. Vino lost. Hamilton lost. For Armstrong, being competitive year-long, and
> finishing third or second in the Tour is failure, period. He's there to win. Winning is worth
> sacrificing a whole season of week-long and one-day results.
>
> In any case, how is Hamilton a counterexample to Armstrong? Armstrong has
always been
> competitive in a classic or two, and a preparatory week-long stage race. This is essentially what
> Hamilton did in 2003.
>
> Dan
>
>
> James P. Spooner wrote:
> > Vino,
> >
> > James
> >
> >
> > "Tom Schulenburg" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> > news:[email protected]...
> >
> >>"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>news:[email protected]...
> >>
> >><SNIP>
> >>
> >>>>5. Only focuses on one race
> >>>
> >>>True, and a shame. But there is no requirement, as in other sports,
for
> >>>cyclists to enter x amount of events and do well enough in them to be invited to an event.
> >>>Procycling focuses on teams and invites as the
> >
> > teams
> >
> >>>as a whole produce.
> >>>
> >>
> >>Other than Tyler Hamilton, can anyone name another TdF contender who was successful throughout
> >>the season - focused on more than one race ?
Maybe
> >>Roberto Heras?
> >

 

[Dan Connelly]

James P. Spooner wrote:
> I completely agree, however if you were Vino or Hamilton would you risk your entire season on
> winning the Tour de France? I would if I were Lance or Jan. What about Mayo? I think Hamilton will
> try this year which I think is an error but I hope I'm wrong. I also would have a tough time
> calling third place in the Tour losing.
>
> James

For Ullrich and Armstrong this year, 3rd would be complete failure. For anyone else, it isn't bad.

Dan

 

[George Orwell]

Your Troll Meter is "kaput", this was at least a 95%er, and you have it down at 1.5. An inverse
scale, You must be Down Under, on that desert with an ocean around it, Australia? New Zealand,
Antarctica?

Lance (Name) A. will continue to be a great father in any case, but his kids will have two mommies
now, she met another lady a while back, when she found out his plumbing doesn’t work anymore. He has
been riding without the bicycle seat on again, too.

 

[Tom Schulenburg]

"Rick Roof" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Ever heard of Stephen Roche? Didn't he win the Giro, Le Tour, and the Worlds. What about another
> guy named Eddy something????
>

Those guy's were old school. Are you saying that every TdF winner since Roche (16 years ago?) was a
slacker for not racing more? As far as Merckx goes, I don't think we will ever see another rider
dominate as he did - no shame in that.

-T

 

[Tim Lines]

Mike Gladu wrote:

> Did you just 'Google' the word "Texan" and then pick a link at random?
>
> From the GUARDIAN no less.

C'mon, don't be so picky. Nigeria ... Texas, what's the difference? They're both really hot and dry.

 

[Raptor]

[email protected] wrote:
> Try dressing like Lance, or watching videos about Lance, and pickup his style, and it will work
> for you also. Lance has it made because he worked hard at it, some of us have and most haven’t.

I bought a Gitane Super Corsa and a Renault jersey back in 1989, and I won a virtual Tour de France.
There must be some connection.

--
--
Lynn Wallace http://www.xmission.com/~lawall
"We should not march into Baghdad. ... Assigning young soldiers to
a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning
them to fight in what would be an unwinnable urban guerilla war, it
could only plunge that part of the world into ever greater
instability." George Bush Sr. in his 1998 book "A World Transformed"

 

[Michael Zaharis]

No, you're right. His troll got a big response, so it did what it was intended to do, so it must
have been a reasonably effective troll. Suckers.

YOUR troll, on the other hand . . .

-2 -1 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ^

(At least until I have empirical evidence to prove otherwise)

George Orwell wrote:

> Your Troll Meter is "kaput", this was at least a 95%er, and you have it down at 1.5. An inverse
> scale, You must be Down Under, on that desert with an ocean around it, Australia? New Zealand,
> Antarctica?
>
> Lance (Name) A. will continue to be a great father in any case, but his kids will have two mommies
> now, she met another lady a while back, when she found out his plumbing doesn’t work anymore. He
> has been riding without the bicycle seat on again, too.
>
>

 

[Clovis Lark]

Tom Schulenburg <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...

> <SNIP>
>> > 5. Only focuses on one race
>>
>> True, and a shame. But there is no requirement, as in other sports, for cyclists to enter x
>> amount of events and do well enough in them to be invited to an event. Procycling focuses on
>> teams and invites as the teams as a whole produce.
>>

> Other than Tyler Hamilton, can anyone name another TdF contender who was successful throughout the
> season - focused on more than one race ? Maybe Roberto Heras?

Now, or then?

> -T

 

[Van Hoorebeeck]

Gilberto Simoni ;-)

 

[Clovis Lark]

Tom Schulenburg <[email protected]> wrote:

> "Rick Roof" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> Ever heard of Stephen Roche? Didn't he win the Giro, Le Tour, and the Worlds. What about another
>> guy named Eddy something????
>>

> Those guy's were old school. Are you saying that every TdF winner since Roche (16 years ago?) was
> a slacker for not racing more? As far as Merckx goes, I don't think we will ever see another rider
> dominate as he did - no shame in that.

Rominger and Indu raced 2 a year scarcely a decade ago...

> -T

 

[Dan Connelly]

Clovis Lark wrote:
> Tom Schulenburg <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>>"Rick Roof" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>
>>>Ever heard of Stephen Roche? Didn't he win the Giro, Le Tour, and the Worlds. What about another
>>>guy named Eddy something????
>>>
>
>
>
>>Those guy's were old school. Are you saying that every TdF winner since Roche (16 years ago?) was
>>a slacker for not racing more? As far as Merckx goes, I don't think we will ever see another rider
>>dominate as he did - no shame in that.
>
>
> Rominger and Indu raced 2 a year scarcely a decade ago...
>

1. Rominger lost the Tour every year he raced it. Bad example.
2. Indurain repented.

I thought someone would bring up the example of Pantani, 6 years ago.

Dan

 

[Clovis Lark]

Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:
> Clovis Lark wrote:
>> Tom Schulenburg <[email protected]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>"Rick Roof" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>>>
>>>>Ever heard of Stephen Roche? Didn't he win the Giro, Le Tour, and the Worlds. What about another
>>>>guy named Eddy something????
>>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>Those guy's were old school. Are you saying that every TdF winner since Roche (16 years ago?) was
>>>a slacker for not racing more? As far as Merckx goes, I don't think we will ever see another
>>>rider dominate as he did - no shame in that.
>>
>>
>> Rominger and Indu raced 2 a year scarcely a decade ago...
>>

> 1. Rominger lost the Tour every year he raced it. Bad example.

He did well enough. Certainly he was a top rider, and that's the point.

1993: 2nd in TdF, 1st in Vuelta

> 2. Indurain repented.

1992, 1993, 1994. Then he got older...

> I thought someone would bring up the example of Pantani, 6 years ago.

And he did.

The real iron man was Lejarreta, riding competitively in all 3 grand tours in 87, 89,90,91. ONly guy
to do so 4 times!

> Dan

 

[Dan Connelly]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>>1. Rominger lost the Tour every year he raced it. Bad example.
>
>
> He did well enough. Certainly he was a top rider, and that's the point.
>
> 1993: 2nd in TdF, 1st in Vuelta
>

No -- not "well enough". Would Armstrong trade a 3rd in the Tour and a 1st in the Vuelta for 5 Tour
wins and a Vuelta 4th? Hardly. So the Rominger example is consistent with the thesis that one must
focus on the Tour to maximize ones results there. Who knows what he would have accomplished with
better preparation?
>
>>2. Indurain repented.
>
>
> 1992, 1993, 1994. Then he got older...

Another view: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1995May29.183315.20108%40clouso.crim.ca

In any case, Armstrong is even older.

>
>>I thought someone would bring up the example of Pantani, 6 years ago.
>
>
> And he did.
>
> The real iron man was Lejarreta, riding competitively in all 3 grand tours in 87, 89,90,91. ONly
> guy to do so 4 times!

And he lost all of them.

Dan

 

[Bitey]

On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 03:45:26 GMT, [email protected] (Mike
Gladu) wrote:

>In article <[email protected]>, Bitey
><[email protected]> wrote:
>
>> Texans have been directly linked to the recent scourge of scams from Nigeria:
>>
>> http://www.guardian.co.uk/comment/story/0,3604,1108537,00.html
>
>Did you just 'Google' the word "Texan" and then pick a link at random?
>
>From the GUARDIAN no less.
>
>Jackass.

No, a friend sent me that link a few weeks ago as an example of how people around the world blame
Bush for everything. If you send money to Nigeria, whose fault is it?

Reductio ad absurdum, look it up.

Getting spam? GW is personally clicking on the Send button.

Squirrels raiding your bird feeder? Bush's fault.

 

[Clovis Lark]

Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:
> Clovis Lark wrote:
>>>1. Rominger lost the Tour every year he raced it. Bad example.
>>
>>
>> He did well enough. Certainly he was a top rider, and that's the point.
>>
>> 1993: 2nd in TdF, 1st in Vuelta
>>

> No -- not "well enough". Would Armstrong trade a 3rd in the Tour and a 1st in the Vuelta for 5
> Tour wins and a Vuelta 4th? Hardly.

Who died and made you Armstrong? You might well ask him...

> So the Rominger example is consistent with the thesis that one must focus on the Tour to maximize
> ones results there. Who knows what he would have accomplished with better preparation?

Nothing would have taken away from the fact that he had serious allergy problems that affected his
abilities during July in France. Better prep?

>>
>>>2. Indurain repented.
>>
>>
>> 1992, 1993, 1994. Then he got older...

> Another view: http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=1995May29.183315.20108%40clouso.crim.ca

> In any case, Armstrong is even older.

>>
>>>I thought someone would bring up the example of Pantani, 6 years ago.
>>
>>
>> And he did.
>>
>> The real iron man was Lejarreta, riding competitively in all 3 grand tours in 87, 89,90,91. ONly
>> guy to do so 4 times!

> And he lost all of them.

For you, a winning means everything person, I suppose. But that isn't how Lejarreta looked at it.

I find it odd that world class level competition placings among the elite of your sport count
for nothing.

> Dan

 

[Clovis Lark]

Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:
> Clovis Lark wrote:
>>>No -- not "well enough". Would Armstrong trade a 3rd in the Tour and a 1st in the Vuelta for 5
>>>Tour wins and a Vuelta 4th? Hardly.
>>
>>
>> Who died and made you Armstrong? You might well ask him...
>>

> I don't need to ask him. I've read enough interviews. What do you think he'd say?

I'll bet he'd say something about being at the finish as a cancer survivor is a victory in and of
itself, words to that effect.

>>
>>>So the Rominger example is consistent with the thesis that one must focus on the Tour to maximize
>>>ones results there. Who knows what he would have accomplished with better preparation?
>>
>>
>> Nothing would have taken away from the fact that he had serious allergy problems that affected
>> his abilities during July in France. Better prep?

> Don't use Rominger as an example for Armstrong to emulate, given the latter's statement that,
> given his sponsors, the Tour is the #1 priority.

Too late, I did...

>>>And he lost all of them.
>>
>>
>> For you, a winning means everything person, I suppose. But that isn't how Lejarreta looked at it.
>>
>> I find it odd that world class level competition placings among the elite of your sport count for
>> nothing.

> Armstrong's goal is to win the Tour. That's what his sponsors want. He's doing his job. Leave
> other races to others.

Sure that's his goal. But before that victory was assured, his goal was simply to finish and do so
with style.

> Dan

 

[Dan Connelly]

Clovis Lark wrote:
>>No -- not "well enough". Would Armstrong trade a 3rd in the Tour and a 1st in the Vuelta for 5
>>Tour wins and a Vuelta 4th? Hardly.
>
>
> Who died and made you Armstrong? You might well ask him...
>

I don't need to ask him. I've read enough interviews. What do you think he'd say?

>
>>So the Rominger example is consistent with the thesis that one must focus on the Tour to maximize
>>ones results there. Who knows what he would have accomplished with better preparation?
>
>
> Nothing would have taken away from the fact that he had serious allergy problems that affected his
> abilities during July in France. Better prep?

Don't use Rominger as an example for Armstrong to emulate, given the latter's statement that, given
his sponsors, the Tour is the #1 priority.

>>And he lost all of them.
>
>
> For you, a winning means everything person, I suppose. But that isn't how Lejarreta looked at it.
>
> I find it odd that world class level competition placings among the elite of your sport count for
> nothing.

Armstrong's goal is to win the Tour. That's what his sponsors want. He's doing his job. Leave other
races to others.

Dan

 

[Stewart Fleming]

Tim Lines wrote:
>
>
> Mike Gladu wrote:
>
>> Did you just 'Google' the word "Texan" and then pick a link at random?
>>
>> From the GUARDIAN no less.
>
>
> C'mon, don't be so picky. Nigeria ... Texas, what's the difference? They're both really hot
> and dry.
>

Then again, there is at least one very high-profile Texan that has been taken in by a scam from
*****. http://www.villagevoice.com/issues/0407/schanberg.php

 

[James P. Spoone]

A couple of things on Rominger; he started cycling really late in life (used to smoke and party),
turned himself into a world class rider and likely found out too late that he was a potential Tour
winner. Plus, he ran into a super Indurain. He probably could have used a slightly stronger team as
well. Don't feel too sorry for him though as he used to get 1000 SF per UCI point.

James

"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> Dan Connelly <d_j_c_o_n_n_e_l@i_e_e_e.o_r_g> wrote:
> > Clovis Lark wrote:
> >>>No -- not "well enough". Would Armstrong trade a 3rd in the Tour and a
1st
> >>>in the Vuelta for 5 Tour wins and a Vuelta 4th? Hardly.
> >>
> >>
> >> Who died and made you Armstrong? You might well ask him...
> >>
>
> > I don't need to ask him. I've read enough interviews. What do you
think
> > he'd say?
>
> I'll bet he'd say something about being at the finish as a cancer survivor is a victory in and of
> itself, words to that effect.
>
> >>
> >>>So the Rominger example is consistent with the thesis that one must focus on the Tour
to
> >>>maximize ones results there. Who knows what he would have accomplished with better preparation?
> >>
> >>
> >> Nothing would have taken away from the fact that he had serious allergy problems that affected
> >> his abilities during July in France. Better
prep?
>
> > Don't use Rominger as an example for Armstrong to emulate, given the
latter's
> > statement that, given his sponsors, the Tour is the #1 priority.
>
> Too late, I did...
>
> >>>And he lost all of them.
> >>
> >>
> >> For you, a winning means everything person, I suppose. But that isn't
how
> >> Lejarreta looked at it.
> >>
> >> I find it odd that world class level competition placings among the
elite
> >> of your sport count for nothing.
>
>
> > Armstrong's goal is to win the Tour. That's what his sponsors want. He's doing his job. Leave
> > other races to others.
>
> Sure that's his goal. But before that victory was assured, his goal was simply to finish and do so
> with style.
>
> > Dan
>

 

[Steven L. Sheff]

On 02/19/2004 09:18 AM, in article [email protected],
"Clovis Lark" <[email protected]> wrote:

> The real iron man was Lejarreta, riding competitively in all 3 grand tours in 87, 89,90,91. ONly
> guy to do so 4 times!

Don't forget that Allessandro Petacchi rode competitively in all three grand tours less than a
year ago ...

Granted, it was for stage wins on the flat days, and not for the overall, but he did take 6 Giro, 4
Tour, and 5 Vuelta stages last year.

--
Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum
pax est libertas servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee sea aye tee why you ti
ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-ewe
dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash