Lance Armstrong... Yes or No?

Discussion in 'The Bike Cafe' started by meehs, Feb 6, 2004.

  1. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    He is God-like here. There was controversy over who made it to the summit first, Hillary or Tensing. The media tried to start a fight over it but Tensing didnt say a word and Hillary's official position was they "Knocked the Bugger off" together
     


  2. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    And because of his friendship with Tensing and they're attitude
    as to who actually got to the top first, has made him (and Tensing) very admirable people.

    The amount of funds that Hillary has put in to Nepal to help the
    sherpas and their community has been huge.

    Is he more popular in NZ than Colin Meads (the rugby player ?).
    Meads too is an idol - although I don't think that he would be as well known world wide as Hillary.
     
  3. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    All All-Blacks are revered here (Even Carlos Spencer :confused: ) and none more so than the Great Colin Meads. Probably accepted as the greatest ever. But Hillary is something special. He is known for his climbing ability of course and his humanitarian work (mostly but not exclusivly in Nepal) but its way past that. He personifies how we see ourselfs as a nation. His manner and personelity mirror what most of us aspire to be. That probably why I got prickly over the attack on him.
     
  4. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    An analergy just came to mind. Hillary is to New Zealand what Mercx is to Cycling. I think that is a fair call. If you asked every New Zealander who the "greatest Kiwi Ever" was I think Sir Edmond would take it.
     
  5. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    I do have an interest in mountaineering and Hillary's reputation as a climber is at the top of this sport/pastime/hobby.

    Not being disrespectful though, Reinhold Meissner is regarded as
    the greatest climber of all time.

    But you're absolutely right - Hillary's reputation is not solely due to his mountaineering endeavours - his personality and his generosity is a major contribution to his fully deserved reputation.

    Had the privilege to meet the man - he was here in Ireland to re-dedicate a site to the great (Irish) polar advernturer, Tom Crean.
    Hillary made a very good speech in Tom Crean's ancestral home in
    County Kerry two years ago.
    The people there warmed to Hillary as a person.
     
  6. meehs

    meehs New Member

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    It's funny how these threads sometimes "evolve" or as I like to say "take a hard left"! :D

    Who would've ever thought that a Lance Armstrong thread would turn into a discussion on the merits of Edmund Hillary and Tensing Sherpa???

    Don't get me wrong, I have absolutely no problem with it. Just a bit odd is all! :)
     
  7. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    Its amazing what one sentance can do isnt it :D
     
  8. DiabloScott

    DiabloScott New Member

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    I'd have to put Rutherford as the greatest Kiwi, but my vote doesn't really count.
     
  9. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    Rutherford? you think that the man who made nuclear weapons possible is great because?
    He is actually widly unknown here btw (and a good thing too imo)
     
  10. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Graham Mourie is the greatest New Zealander !
    (I'm showing my age now - but GM was the best flanker I ever saw).
     
  11. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    OMG Lim, yes he was good but COME ON DUDE, Josh Kronfeld was as good and RITCHIE MACAW, dude, he is the best Rugby player ever let alone flanker.
     
  12. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Ritchie McCaw - not a bad player would get a place in my clubs
    XV !
    Josh Kronfeld - great player as well - he could play on the opposite side of my clubs scrum, with McCaw !

    But Mourie - for me he was the best (showing my age here) and a great, great captain (All Blacks 1978 !!)
     
  13. Saucy

    Saucy New Member

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    I thought I read somewhere that Hillary failed to climb Kilimanjaro, which is pretty funny because every soccer mom and the family golden retriever is now climbing it.

    Has Hillary climbed K2? If not, there is no way he can be considered even in the top 5 of climbers.
     
  14. Fixey

    Fixey New Member

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    I know nothing about climbing, bar Hillary and Tensing where the first to summit Everest. thats it, my knowledge of the subject finishes there, no idea what else he tried/failed except I know he did other exploring, what it was I dont know.
     
  15. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Just caught the end of a program about Mallory/Irvine (1924 British expedition to climb Everest).
    It is widely speculated that Mallory/Irvine may have climbed Everest in 1924 (wearing primitive climbing clothing - improvised
    oxygen developed by Sandy Irvine).

    Irvine and Mallory brought a kodak camera with them - if they did climb Everest, they would have taken a photo of their achievement.
    Irvine/Mallory never made it back down the mountain.
    In 1999, Mallory's body was found - but there was no camera.
    Kodak have said that if they took a photo - due to the low temperatures, they would be able to develope whatever film
    might be in the camera (80 odd years later !).

    Hillary was interviewed and he said that he would have no
    qualms vacating the title of being the first man to climb Everest
    if they did in fact gain proof of Mallory/Irvine success.
    Hillary spoke warmly of both climbers - mentioning how great their effort was to get to the top (they were spotted 1000 ft below Everest's apex climbing upward).
    Hillary said that he would never have been able to climb to within
    even 1000 ft of the top in the clothes and with the equipment they had.

    A true gentleman !
     
  16. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    Armstrong is looking pretty good so far this year. I think he may be trying to understate his level of fitness and his hunger for a 6th win.

    Nothing to do with Edmund Hillary but I thought I'd give Lance just a tiny portion of his thread back.

    ;)
     
  17. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    You're quite right - I went off on a tangent there !

    Yes, LA is looking really good.
    A friend of mine was over in France last week and he saw the second last stage of the Langeodoc-Rossillion (he was being driven in one of the team cars).

    At one point on the stage that LA won, the gradient hit 20%
    and LA simply flew away from the opposition.
    Moreau won the overall event but my friend was telling me that he got the distinct impression (from discussions with different
    team managers etc) that LA is in good nick (or else he is bluffing !)

    Meanwhile JU is cycling round Switzerland !
    The mind boggles.
     
  18. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    Well, threads meander wherever the users feel like taking them and several seem to know far more about mountain climbing than I'll ever know about anything so I have no problem with people talking about whatever interests them at the moment.

    Lance said that he was having both good days and bad days in the Languedoc-Roussillon including the stage you referred to. He started out feeling okay but began to feel the effects of what he assumes might have been fatigue before rebounding in the final miles of the stage. Unfortunately, I get to watch none of this and have to satisfy my desire for a little news via the few interviews I can find on the web so I can't see for myself if he looks liek he's struggling. I still think the man is trying to keep his level of fitness under wraps, something like he did on the stage to l'Alpe d'Huez in 2001. I hope I'm right but I'm sure as much as I want to see him take a sixth win, there are those who cringe at the thought.

    I really haven't heard much about Ullrich's condition this year, and perhaps that's by design. I'm sure he will give the race everything he has again but I'm still firmly in Armstrong's camp.

    :)
     
  19. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

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    Well my friend told me that LA looked really fit (no surprise here).
    But he said that he literally outclimbed the peloton - he literally left them standing when it hit 20% gradient.

    My friend (an LA fan) also got to meet the man himself and said he was very gracious and polite !

    Obviously he wants a 6th title and I'd say he will be supermotivated to win in July.
     
  20. Beastt

    Beastt New Member

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    I'm still trying to get my mind around the idea of a 20% grade. That's a foot of elevation gain for every 5-feet forward. I can't imagine what that even looks like except maybe a double-black ski run.

    I wish I could have seen Lance attack that stretch. I know how badly I can blow on a 5% grade. A 20% grade must look like he's riding a constant wheelie!

    :)
     
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