Lance Armstrong... Yes or No?

[davidmc]

My beef is that Merckx, Indurain & others did'nt have the techno gadjetry or nutritional advantages of 2days riders so that although the race 2day is as difficult as it ever was, it is apparent 2 me that the riders now have an advantage w/ heart monitors & nutritional supplements that fine tune their training regimens that wer'nt avail. to past "greats". Not 2 mention different frames & components which make the bike lighter & more efficient. Also, did'nt Pantini dislike (not use) elect. gadgets?

 

[limerickman]

I used to be a Lance Armstrong fan when he came to Europe in 1992.
I thought that he was a great one day rider and I always followed his progress and was on the road side in the 1994 and 1995 TDF supporting him and Motorola (Sean Yates).

But since his return, I found it hard to believe that he was capable of what he has done since 1998 in the TDF.
I question his authenticity as a cyclist.

What he does in his private life is his business.
To me, his private life is a separate issue and shouldn't prejudice ones view of his cycling.

 

[Weisse Luft]

You would think if he is doping, riders who were once on his team but now ride for others would TALK.

Lets see...Hamilton, Julich, Heras, Boonen, Leipheimer, (Livingston) all were former team mates who later defected. Unless there is supreeme honor among thieves, its impossible to keep such a conspiracy silent, if it indeed existed.

 

[Beastt]

You would think if he is doping, riders who were once on his team but now ride for others would TALK.

Lets see...Hamilton, Julich, Heras, Boonen, Leipheimer, (Livingston) all were former team mates who later defected. Unless there is supreeme honor among thieves, its impossible to keep such a conspiracy silent, if it indeed existed.

I think it appropriate to include your points among many others which suggest, very strongly, that the accusations about Lance doping are completely false.

 

[JohnO]

My beef is that Merckx, Indurain & others did'nt have the techno gadjetry or nutritional advantages of 2days riders so that although the race 2day is as difficult as it ever was, it is apparent 2 me that the riders now have an advantage w/ heart monitors & nutritional supplements that fine tune their training regimens that wer'nt avail. to past "greats". Not 2 mention different frames & components which make the bike lighter & more efficient. Also, did'nt Pantini dislike (not use) elect. gadgets?

But the competition that Merckx, Indurain and others faced didn't have the gadgetry and training programs either. It's a safe bet that were any of the past champions competing today, they would be using the same equipment and following the same type of training and nutrition programs that any competitive team does today. It's all relative as to what the peloton in general is doing at the time.

Lance may not be the strongest natural cyclist, but he's definitely the smartest. This year's TDF is turning out to be a graduate level course in cycling tactics, from how to get past cobblestones to playing the stalking lion on the mountains. Regardless of what era a champion comes from, a clear understanding of how to ride a race is still a critical component.

 

[el Ingles]

I used to be a Lance Armstrong fan when he came to Europe in 1992.
I thought that he was a great one day rider and I always followed his progress and was on the road side in the 1994 and 1995 TDF supporting him and Motorola (Sean Yates).

But since his return, I found it hard to believe that he was capable of what he has done since 1998 in the TDF.
I question his authenticity as a cyclist.

What he does in his private life is his business.
To me, his private life is a separate issue and shouldn't prejudice ones view of his cycling.

Has anybody noticed just how strong his team mates are at the endof the mountain stage , Hincapie didn´t even seem out of breath last mountain stage - doing an interview for german tv 50 yds over the line ?
With all the reverlations coming out of US athletics these last months you have to ask has there been any spill over of " technology " from that Californian lab ( THG etc ) to this very American cycle team , LA may be a superman but all 9 ?? don´t think so .

Private life is private until you sell your face and lifestyle for money ( adverts , social mags etc ) then all bets are of : see Beckham .

 

[TrekDedicated]

Has anybody noticed just how strong his team mates are at the endof the mountain stage , Hincapie didn´t even seem out of breath last mountain stage - doing an interview for german tv 50 yds over the line ?
With all the reverlations coming out of US athletics these last months you have to ask has there been any spill over of " technology " from that Californian lab ( THG etc ) to this very American cycle team , LA may be a superman but all 9 ?? don´t think so .

Private life is private until you sell your face and lifestyle for money ( adverts , social mags etc ) then all bets are of : see Beckham .

Not all of them are supermen, thus they don't finish with LA at the end... They spend themselves to advance LA and when they are tired, they fall back and finish at their own pace... They are trying to advance LA, not advance themselves.

I bet Hincapie and the rest of them hav done their jobs earlier in the stage, and dropped back, going at their own pace. They need to save themselves too. Stop being soo paranoid. Only ONE USPS finish in the bunch, BUT TWO T-Mobiles finished togther... UH OH!!! Maybe their doping too! How on earth could someone keep up with JU if he is the captain???? his team must be doping.... oh my!!!!!!!!

Take off the tin foil hats everyone.

 

[davidmc]

Has anybody noticed just how strong his team mates are at the endof the mountain stage , Hincapie didn´t even seem out of breath last mountain stage - doing an interview for german tv 50 yds over the line ?
With all the reverlations coming out of US athletics these last months you have to ask has there been any spill over of " technology " from that Californian lab ( THG etc ) to this very American cycle team , LA may be a superman but all 9 ?? don´t think so .

Private life is private until you sell your face and lifestyle for money ( adverts , social mags etc ) then all bets are of : see Beckham .

I agree. Did you see the pic of two teenagers running alongside the riders w/ a "giant syringe (needle)"? & the poor little adorable girl holding up a sign that said- no drugs ( in french). Some of these guys r most assuradly "doping" & i watch it w/ glee because I am not a "roadie" although i ride roadbikes for enjoyment, not fanatically devoting my life to it. It would b comical if it wer'nt so tragic.

 

[Jon Packard]

I agree. Did you see the pic of two teenagers running alongside the riders w/ a "giant syringe (needle)"? & the poor little adorable girl holding up a sign that said- no drugs ( in french). Some of these guys r most assuradly "doping" & i watch it w/ glee because I am not a "roadie" although i ride roadbikes for enjoyment, not fanatically devoting my life to it. It would b comical if it wer'nt so tragic.

It's amazing how a few annonymous schmucks with an internet connection can come to the conclusion that a team of French scientists (who actually had the samples) couldn't prove in over 18 months! You guys are awesome! The Tour organizers should subject all riders to your obviously stringent scientific methods.

Please.

 

[davidmc]

It's amazing how a few annonymous schmucks with an internet connection can come to the conclusion that a team of French scientists (who actually had the samples) couldn't prove in over 18 months! You guys are awesome! The Tour organizers should subject all riders to your obviously stringent scientific methods.

Please.

I was'nt referring to Team Armstrong, specifically but you have to concede that at least a few of the riders in the entire professional roadbiking community are using the drugs. Just because I point this out does'nt make me a schmuck.Some are caught, some are not.

 

[Jon Packard]

I was'nt referring to Team Armstrong, specifically but you have to concede that at least a few of the riders in the entire professional roadbiking community are using the drugs. Just because I point this out does'nt make me a schmuck.Some are caught, some are not.

First of all, I apologise - I had a rough day.

However, you were agreeing with a person who was inferring that the USPS team was (at least in part) taking part in questionable "technology" (the inference being doping). Either you agree, or not.

It's almost insane to believe that Armstrong is doping considering how closely he's being watched, how stringintly he's been tested. But, hey, believe what you want. And I will do the same.

Again, sorry to offend.

 

[davidmc]

First of all, I apologise - I had a rough day.

However, you were agreeing with a person who was inferring that the USPS team was (at least in part) taking part in questionable "technology" (the inference being doping). Either you agree, or not.

It's almost insane to believe that Armstrong is doping considering how closely he's being watched, how stringintly he's been tested. But, hey, believe what you want. And I will do the same.

Again, sorry to offend.

Your point is well made, someone would have to be out of touch w/ reality to think they could get away w/ doping on the USPS team seeing as how they must b under a microscope everyday of the tour. It seems that it would b a difficult proposition to turn down however if there were a new drug that would'nt show up in tests which i'm sure there would be a demand if it were avail. There used to be widespread use in bodybuiling & the olympics, sometimes state sponsored (e germany) so it would'nt be out of the realm of possibility for a rider to be tempted or even encouraged to use some kind of "silver bullet" to win especially if it would'nt show up on a test. I am partly responsible, 4 the tone of the xchange, for saying that i watch the doping developements " with glee ". For that, i admit, i am guilty.

 

[limerickman]

Just a small point - and I see this statement being spun continuously.
USPS and lance Armstrong being constantly rested for drugs.

How do we know that this is the case ?
Where are the people who repeat this statement of constant drug taking getting their information from, can I ask ?
Are people relying on Armstrong's statements in his books for this ?

Or do they have statistics available from the UCI, USADA, WADA to confirm
how often Lance Armstrong and His team have been tested ?

Thanks

 

[davidmc]

Just a small point - and I see this statement being spun continuously.
USPS and lance Armstrong being constantly rested for drugs.

How do we know that this is the case ?
Where are the people who repeat this statement of constant drug taking getting their information from, can I ask ?
Are people relying on Armstrong's statements in his books for this ?

Or do they have statistics available from the UCI, USADA, WADA to confirm
how often Lance Armstrong and His team have been tested ?

Thanks

There is every reason to test them including, but not limited to, the fact that they are considered "outsiders"(americans) winning thier(french) race. I know how much the french,including the quebec faction, are narcissists & how they hold the rest of the world in disdain bcause of their superiority in the area's of food, wine, fashion, ect.... Not all french r like this but there r enough to perpetuate thier preeminence in this matter. I admit i don't know how often or what the standing rules r for testing in the various federations. You seem to you know more about this than i do. what do u think?

 

[limerickman]

There is every reason to test them including, but not limited to, the fact that they are considered "outsiders"(americans) winning thier(french) race. I know how much the french,including the quebec faction, are narcissists & how they hold the rest of the world in disdain bcause of their superiority in the area's of food, wine, fashion, ect.... Not all french r like this but there r enough to perpetuate thier preeminence in this matter. I admit i don't know how often or what the standing rules r for testing in the various federations. You seem to you know more about this than i do. what do u think?

Well I don't know how often Armstrong is tested.

I suspect that none of his supporters know how often he is tested either.
But when they all chime in to support LA - they say that he is constantly tested.

We know that he trains by himself - he doesn't enter many races during the year.
Therefore his in-competition testing is limited - therefore I wonder, because
he is out of competition and training by himself - just how much testing he is subjected to ?

 

[Salsa Rider]

Just a small point - and I see this statement being spun continuously.
USPS and lance Armstrong being constantly rested for drugs.

How do we know that this is the case ?
Where are the people who repeat this statement of constant drug taking getting their information from, can I ask ?
Are people relying on Armstrong's statements in his books for this ?

Or do they have statistics available from the UCI, USADA, WADA to confirm
how often Lance Armstrong and His team have been tested ?

Thanks

There is huge pressure at the top end if all sports. And huge sums of money as well. Therefore to think that doping and by default masking isnt occuring is ludicris. The question is to what extent. Jens Voiet (sp?) was amazing yesterday. before he dropped out, Jakob Piils was also. Personally, I'd be checking both these guys. But as far as LA and the posties go I hope they are the most highly scrutinized teams.

LA has the usual advantage to have been able to completely rebuild his body for cycling after breaking it down due to his chemotherapy. He also is at the leading edge of preparation. Greg Lemond introduced a new wave of technology to bike racing and won at least one tour directly because of it, to the expense of Finon. Lance has now brought a level of disipline and preparation that is only now being copied. He really only races one race a year and can therefore specialize more than the other riders. Jan et al race a 6 month season. It takes a toll.

LA and the posties also have Johan Brueneel (sp?) who no matter how much credit he gets for LA's success, is not enough. He is the reason that the postie's are so completely unstoppable in their single task.

 

[meehs]

Well I don't know how often Armstrong is tested.

I suspect that none of his supporters know how often he is tested either.
But when they all chime in to support LA - they say that he is constantly tested.

We know that he trains by himself - he doesn't enter many races during the year.
Therefore his in-competition testing is limited - therefore I wonder, because
he is out of competition and training by himself - just how much testing he is subjected to ?

FWIW - I was watching the Tour de France coverage on OLN and they showed LA coming out of a medical vehicle holding a gauze bandage to the inside of his elbow and Phil Liggett commented (I'm paraphrasing here so these might not have been his exact words) "Here we see Lance Armstrong emerging from yet another doping test, as many of you know, this man has undergone more tests than any other rider". I personally don't have any proof that LA has undergone extensive testing but according to a lot of media sources (and not just Armstrong's people) he has.

 

[limerickman]

FWIW - I was watching the Tour de France coverage on OLN and they showed LA coming out of a medical vehicle holding a gauze bandage to the inside of his elbow and Phil Liggett commented (I'm paraphrasing here so these might not have been his exact words) "Here we see Lance Armstrong emerging from yet another doping test, as many of you know, this man has undergone more tests than any other rider". I personally don't have any proof that LA has undergone extensive testing but according to a lot of media sources (and not just Armstrong's people) he has.

Well I ask the question because people say he is tested all the time.
The only information to support this that I have seen, comes from his books -
and I was just wondering if anyone out there in Cyberspace had a
source (apart from his books) showing the number of tests he's undergone.

 

[meehs]

Well I ask the question because people say he is tested all the time.
The only information to support this that I have seen, comes from his books -
and I was just wondering if anyone out there in Cyberspace had a
source (apart from his books) showing the number of tests he's undergone.

It's a good question. I don't know if there's any real evidence backing-up the statement that Lance is tested continuously. It's definitely something that has been perpetrated by the media.

 

[1 CycleNut]

Very good point! It'll be interesting to see how this poll looks after more folks have responded. There's no arguing with the fact that you started one very interesting thread!

Him and I have something in common thats why I like the guy, and he is a survivor! and a hard worker with GOALS! Oh the thing we have in common................................ I'm on CHEMO and I ride my Bike too! nothing like him but I still get down the road hard sometimes as it is!