Lance Armstrong... Yes or No?

[meehs]

Those little rubber bracelets...$1 each are selling for $40 on eBay...Whoa.

That's so lame! It's a shame that there are people out there that don't have a problem profitting from what was intended to be a campaign to raise monet for cancer research. The lowest of the low in my opinion. The wristbands were originally "sold" for $1 by the Lance Armstrong Foundation with the money going towards cancer research.

I have a whole bunch of the things at home from when I made a donation to the LAF (it was before the things became "trendy") and they sent me a bunch of them. I guess I could make some good money off of them. I'd feel way too guilty though!

 

[mike7382]

Lance Armstrong is the greatest athlete in the world right now in my opinion. I am a big fan of Lance. How many people can win the tour de france 6 times in a row? no one but Lance. He is just too good at cycling. He just blows up the competion every time he races. I am from the USA and Lance Armstrong is great.

 

[pobserver03]

Lance Armstrong is the greatest athlete in the world right now in my opinion. I am a big fan of Lance. How many people can win the tour de france 6 times in a row? no one but Lance. He is just too good at cycling. He just blows up the competion every time he races. I am from the USA and Lance Armstrong is great.

Mike-I am a huge Lance fan also, and yes he is a good performing athlete. Sure, he has won 6 TdFs. Has any other cyclist had the opportunity to win 6? Absolutely. Every single member of the elite 5 club has. Does this make Lance a superior athlete because he attained the unimagineable 6 wins? Absolutely not. Take a look at Merckx (you do know who that is don't you?). He wins 5 times. What does he do? You guessed it, he goes for sweet number 6. He was well on his way to winning that coveted #6 when all of sudden.....bear with me. The idea that a Belgian might surpass Frances beloved Jaques Anquetil in TdF wins thoroughly ****** the French off. But what could they do to stop this mighty Belgians quest? They send one angry french fan to the site of that stage 14 and as Merckx was pedaling his way into history this angry frenchman stepped out lay a blow to the kidneys of Eddie. This incident put an end to Eddie's quest of 6 wins which I can assure you he would have succeeded. Also among Eddie's accomplishments were 5 wins at the Giro d'Italia and he even one the Vuelta d'Espana along with one day classics. He earned the titles of The Cannibal and Le Geant. Tell me something Mike-Lance has won 6 times in the Tour de France-Has really done anything else. His accomplishment pale in comparison to other cyclists who paved the road before him. He will indeed go down in history as a great cyclist. He doesn't really focus on anything else besides the TdF. He really needs to branch out to prove his greatness and win other races to stake his claim as one of the greatest. Until then he will just be a guy who won a race 6 times. One race-not many. I too am from the USA and Lance is O.K.

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it.

 

[Beastt]

Mike-I am a huge Lance fan also, and yes he is a good performing athlete. Sure, he has won 6 TdFs. Has any other cyclist had the opportunity to win 6? Absolutely. Every single member of the elite 5 club has. Does this make Lance a superior athlete because he attained the unimagineable 6 wins? Absolutely not. Take a look at Merckx (you do know who that is don't you?). He wins 5 times. What does he do? You guessed it, he goes for sweet number 6. He was well on his way to winning that coveted #6 when all of sudden.....bear with me. The idea that a Belgian might surpass Frances beloved Jaques Anquetil in TdF wins thoroughly ****** the French off. But what could they do to stop this mighty Belgians quest? They send one angry french fan to the site of that stage 14 and as Merckx was pedaling his way into history this angry frenchman stepped out lay a blow to the kidneys of Eddie. This incident put an end to Eddie's quest of 6 wins which I can assure you he would have succeeded. Also among Eddie's accomplishments were 5 wins at the Giro d'Italia and he even one the Vuelta d'Espana along with one day classics. He earned the titles of The Cannibal and Le Geant. Tell me something Mike-Lance has won 6 times in the Tour de France-Has really done anything else. His accomplishment pale in comparison to other cyclists who paved the road before him. He will indeed go down in history as a great cyclist. He doesn't really focus on anything else besides the TdF. He really needs to branch out to prove his greatness and win other races to stake his claim as one of the greatest. Until then he will just be a guy who won a race 6 times. One race-not many. I too am from the USA and Lance is O.K.

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it.

Some very valid points. I'd never state that Lance is the best athlete ever or the best cyclists ever. But I think you may certainly count him among the greats. True he hasn't competed in many of the classics but the Tour de France is thought by many to be the toughest and winning that 6-times certainly suggests that he's capable of winning many of the others. I understand the difference between going out and winning almost everything as Merckx did but I think a bit too much is made of Lance's more singular focus on the Tour de France.

 

[pobserver03]

Some very valid points. I'd never state that Lance is the best athlete ever or the best cyclists ever. But I think you may certainly count him among the greats. True he hasn't competed in many of the classics but the Tour de France is thought by many to be the toughest and winning that 6-times certainly suggests that he's capable of winning many of the others. I understand the difference between going out and winning almost everything as Merckx did but I think a bit too much is made of Lance's more singular focus on the Tour de France.

Agreed!

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it!

 

[mike7382]

Lance focused on many different races before he had cancer. He did one day classics and wasnt even that great at the tour de france. Before cancer he was better at the one dayers. Now he has won 6 tour de frances. what are u trying to say anyway? was lance lucky or something? does he have no one good enough to race against him? answer me a few of these questions. 5 is good but 6 is better.

 

[pobserver03]

Lance focused on many different races before he had cancer. He did one day classics and wasnt even that great at the tour de france. Before cancer he was better at the one dayers. Now he has won 6 tour de frances. what are u trying to say anyway? was lance lucky or something? does he have no one good enough to race against him? answer me a few of these questions. 5 is good but 6 is better.

Yes, Lance did focus on many different races prior to cancer. He was a pretty good one day rider. Pre-cancer his training had molded his body to be more suited for the races he competed in at that time. Post cancer his training molded his body drastically different to the form we see today.

I don't think hardly anybody here will call 6 TdF victories a product of luck. However, it is common knowledge that LA trains specifically for the TdF. It is an amazing feat to win one TdF, let alone 6; and when people discuss in pubs or plaza or sitting around the family dining table the greatest cyclists ever to have competed, LA will surely be a part of that discussion. As for formidable opponents there are plenty, not just Jan but Hamilton, Basso, Heras to name a few. Surely if these competitors had targeted nothing but the TdF when training they would have been more threatening. But........What if? Is 6 better than 5? Relative to TdF wins, sure.
Now what we need is to see if the Shiner Boch drinking Texan can win more than one race per year.

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it. (lol)

 

[mike7382]

So your telling me that lance is the only one who trains for the tour? I highly doubt that. Even if Lance only one one race a year (which he doesn't) it is the most grueling race in all of cycling. the reason for sticking to the tour de france is he is trying to prove something. that something is your life isnt over after cancer. why not prove to the world that u can win the hardest tour in cycling? with only a 3 percent chance of living and winning the TdF is awsome. obviosly Basso, Heras, and Hamilton aren't as good as lance. Seeing as they lost the tour 6 times to him. Im sure he can win another if he wants to.

 

[ryan_velo]

I am a big fan of lance and i root for him! Although i respect all riders in the tour de france and theres no one i really dislike.

 

[pobserver03]

So your telling me that lance is the only one who trains for the tour? I highly doubt that. Even if Lance only one one race a year (which he doesn't) it is the most grueling race in all of cycling. the reason for sticking to the tour de france is he is trying to prove something. that something is your life isnt over after cancer. why not prove to the world that u can win the hardest tour in cycling? with only a 3 percent chance of living and winning the TdF is awsome. obviosly Basso, Heras, and Hamilton aren't as good as lance. Seeing as they lost the tour 6 times to him. Im sure he can win another if he wants to.

You are as good as a journalist. Spin my words a particular way. As is fashionable for me to do so now-a-days, let me clarify. When I said LA trains specifically for the TdF, I meant it. He doesn't train for classics or other tours, only the Tdf. I hope you are talking to LA direct because I don't know where you get 3 % from. His doctor first told lance he had 60-65% survival rate , later he told him 50%-Lance thought he really meant 20% when all the while the doctor thought he was looking at a dead man. Do not interpret what I write as my thinking LA is not a great cyclist. He is, but don't think that LA is the end all be all. Basso, Heras, Hamilton are every bit as good as Lance and they train for other races. They just have not realized their potential yet. Basso was indeed a threat this year, so too was Hamilton had he not been plagued once again w/injury. Tell me something who was one of the greatest boxers of all time-Ali-was he undefeated?-up until Frazier came along and whipped his ass. Which one of these cyclist or any other will rise up and be LA's Frazier. I can't say-but the moment is quickly coming upon us. Oh can you please tell me how long Heras and Hamilton have been racing against LA. I doubt once you find the answer you will still think it has been six years. Also, please tell me what other races LA has won this year. I believe LA is a great cyclist. I have been a fan of his since the days of Motorola and GT. I think though, he will never be arguably the greatest cyclist ever unless he branches out.

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it!

 

[Beastt]

You are as good as a journalist. Spin my words a particular way. As is fashionable for me to do so now-a-days, let me clarify. When I said LA trains specifically for the TdF, I meant it. He doesn't train for classics or other tours, only the Tdf. I hope you are talking to LA direct because I don't know where you get 3 % from. His doctor first told lance he had 60-65% survival rate , later he told him 50%-Lance thought he really meant 20% when all the while the doctor thought he was looking at a dead man. Do not interpret what I write as my thinking LA is not a great cyclist. He is, but don't think that LA is the end all be all. Basso, Heras, Hamilton are every bit as good as Lance and they train for other races. They just have not realized their potential yet. Basso was indeed a threat this year, so too was Hamilton had he not been plagued once again w/injury. Tell me something who was one of the greatest boxers of all time-Ali-was he undefeated?-up until Frazier came along and whipped his ass. Which one of these cyclist or any other will rise up and be LA's Frazier. I can't say-but the moment is quickly coming upon us. Oh can you please tell me how long Heras and Hamilton have been racing against LA. I doubt once you find the answer you will still think it has been six years. Also, please tell me what other races LA has won this year. I believe LA is a great cyclist. I have been a fan of his since the days of Motorola and GT. I think though, he will never be arguably the greatest cyclist ever unless he branches out.

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it!

Heras, Hamilton and Basso are as good as Lance? Show me the race results. Then I'll be willing to listen. I get a little tired of all the people who decide that because Lance focuses just on the Tour de France, that he's incapable of winning other races or that it somehow erases the fact that he beats these other riders in the Tour de France. If he branches out, which is a possibility now that he has six, I'll be waiting for these same people to be looking for one race somewhere that he hasn't competed in so they can point to it and say he's still not better than those he repeatedly leaves in the dust.

 

[pobserver03]

Heras, Hamilton and Basso are as good as Lance? Show me the race results. Then I'll be willing to listen. I get a little tired of all the people who decide that because Lance focuses just on the Tour de France, that he's incapable of winning other races or that it somehow erases the fact that he beats these other riders in the Tour de France. If he branches out, which is a possibility now that he has six, I'll be waiting for these same people to be looking for one race somewhere that he hasn't competed in so they can point to it and say he's still not better than those he repeatedly leaves in the dust.

I hope you do not think I belong in you category of "people". You know what is tired? Your argument. I for one never said LA was incapable of winning anything else, just that he does not focus on anything else. Gotta go-will get back to you lame ass argument later.

pob

 

[Beastt]

I hope you do not think I belong in you category of "people". You know what is tired? Your argument. I for one never said LA was incapable of winning anything else, just that he does not focus on anything else. Gotta go-will get back to you lame ass argument later.

pob

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, though that's all it is. And perhaps it suits you.

 

[pobserver03]

You're certainly entitled to your opinion, though that's all it is. And perhaps it suits you.

My opinion does suit me, thanks. There are alot of races in one years season. The cyclists I have mentioned hardly race in the same tours and classics prior to the TdF. If you want statistics for the other riders this year Ullrich won the Tour de Suisse, Heras won the Bicicleta Basca, and Hamilton won the Tour de Romandie this year and place 2nd in the Dauphine Libere. I'll surrender one bit of info to you. The TdF is the superbowl of cycling, only twenty times harder. However, i can't find where LA won anything leading up to the TdF. Each riders resume is similar dotted with first and 2nd and 3rd and so on place finishes for years past. I guess most notably for LA would be the Amstel race.

Tell me what you think about this opinion. Heras and Hamilton have both raced with LA. It could be safe to say that they are the best at what they do. They were awesome as a support team, as domestiques doing a large majority of the work necessary for LA to attain his TdF wins. Perhaps with the right amount of money, Heras or Hamilton could suround themselves with other riders as talented as they are. Imagine the results.

And Ivan Basso. This is a guy LA badly wanted on USPS. I would not imagine he wanted Basso because he sucks, no, he wanted Basso because he was probaly the most proficient climber out there. Basso gave LA a run for his money pretty much on his own. Think about how drastically the outcome would have been had Basso the money and the team.

I do not claim that LA is not a Great cyclist. On the contrary, he is. Just not the Greatest. He could be likened to a track & field star. Some people just sprint because winning sprints is usually the morst glorious event. The real stars though go for the whole shebang. The decathlon with jumping, discus, javelin...etc. When will LA go for the less glorious wins?

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it.

 

[Beastt]

My opinion does suit me, thanks. There are alot of races in one years season. The cyclists I have mentioned hardly race in the same tours and classics prior to the TdF. If you want statistics for the other riders this year Ullrich won the Tour de Suisse, Heras won the Bicicleta Basca, and Hamilton won the Tour de Romandie this year and place 2nd in the Dauphine Libere. I'll surrender one bit of info to you. The TdF is the superbowl of cycling, only twenty times harder. However, i can't find where LA won anything leading up to the TdF. Each riders resume is similar dotted with first and 2nd and 3rd and so on place finishes for years past. I guess most notably for LA would be the Amstel race.

Tell me what you think about this opinion. Heras and Hamilton have both raced with LA. It could be safe to say that they are the best at what they do. They were awesome as a support team, as domestiques doing a large majority of the work necessary for LA to attain his TdF wins. Perhaps with the right amount of money, Heras or Hamilton could suround themselves with other riders as talented as they are. Imagine the results.

And Ivan Basso. This is a guy LA badly wanted on USPS. I would not imagine he wanted Basso because he sucks, no, he wanted Basso because he was probaly the most proficient climber out there. Basso gave LA a run for his money pretty much on his own. Think about how drastically the outcome would have been had Basso the money and the team.

I do not claim that LA is not a Great cyclist. On the contrary, he is. Just not the Greatest. He could be likened to a track & field star. Some people just sprint because winning sprints is usually the morst glorious event. The real stars though go for the whole shebang. The decathlon with jumping, discus, javelin...etc. When will LA go for the less glorious wins?

Remember: doesn't matter what you ride as long as you ride it.

I'm not disagreeing that Lance isn't the greatest. I think you'll find few who don't put Eddie Merckx in that spot. As for Lance's wins before the Tour de France, it's hardly a classic but there was some stiff competition in the Tour of Georgia. Perhaps specifically notable was when Lance out-sprinted Mario Cippolini for the stage 3 win. He's quite capable and I believe capable of winning many of the classics. He simply chooses to focus on the Tour de France as the most prestigious and probably most difficult. Obviously that strategy is working for him since he's the only rider ever to win six. Perhaps if he'd spread is focus more broadly, he would only have 3 or 4 Tour de France wins along with several wins in races generally thought to be lesser races. Why focus on the lesser races when you can win the most popular one?

As for Heras and Hamilton, both were great domestiques and both have significant talent. But I don't believe either of them possess the degree of prolonged strength that Armstrong has shown. Certainly road cycling is a team sport and the strength of the team plays a major role. That's why Hamilton jumped from CSC to Phonak and they showed some serious strength this year. With Tyler's injuries we'll just never know what might have been but I don't think he would have won had he not been injured. He'd have done well - certainly better than Heras.

 

[pobserver03]

I'm not disagreeing that Lance isn't the greatest. I think you'll find few who don't put Eddie Merckx in that spot. As for Lance's wins before the Tour de France, it's hardly a classic but there was some stiff competition in the Tour of Georgia. Perhaps specifically notable was when Lance out-sprinted Mario Cippolini for the stage 3 win. He's quite capable and I believe capable of winning many of the classics. He simply chooses to focus on the Tour de France as the most prestigious and probably most difficult. Obviously that strategy is working for him since he's the only rider ever to win six. Perhaps if he'd spread is focus more broadly, he would only have 3 or 4 Tour de France wins along with several wins in races generally thought to be lesser races. Why focus on the lesser races when you can win the most popular one?

As for Heras and Hamilton, both were great domestiques and both have significant talent. But I don't believe either of them possess the degree of prolonged strength that Armstrong has shown. Certainly road cycling is a team sport and the strength of the team plays a major role. That's why Hamilton jumped from CSC to Phonak and they showed some serious strength this year. With Tyler's injuries we'll just never know what might have been but I don't think he would have won had he not been injured. He'd have done well - certainly better than Heras.

Here, Here! Agreed!

pob

 

[mike7382]

Your right pob im sorry of the same argument. I agree with beastt on all of his points. there is about one of a hundred people that know another race besides the tour de france. they route for lance because he is the only one cyclist they know. hes won the super bowl of cycling 6 times which means everyone thinks hes great. he may not be the best but i think he is.

 

[pobserver03]

Your right pob im sorry of the same argument. I agree with beastt on all of his points. there is about one of a hundred people that know another race besides the tour de france. they route for lance because he is the only one cyclist they know. hes won the super bowl of cycling 6 times which means everyone thinks hes great. he may not be the best but i think he is.

Yeah, I don't look so good in yellow, but thanks anyway. Mike, do not sell yourself or LA short. He is worthy of the title "great". I just contend that he is not beffitting of the title "Greatest", yet!

pob

 

[mike7382]

well im glad u think he is great pob. at least we have resolved this argument. oh and by the way who do u think is the "GREATEST", cyclist? i dont think that u ever told me.

Yeah, I don't look so good in yellow, but thanks anyway. Mike, do not sell yourself or LA short. He is worthy of the title "great". I just contend that he is not beffitting of the title "Greatest", yet!

pob

 

[pobserver03]

well im glad u think he is great pob. at least we have resolved this argument. oh and by the way who do u think is the "GREATEST", cyclist? i dont think that u ever told me.

The Cannibal! Who else!

Take care, pob