Lance doping?



rdmountaingoat

New Member
May 11, 2006
5
0
0
I don't believe Lance is doping in the illegal sense. I believe he is taking an approved amount of steroids in order to survive his bout with cancer. When lance gets tested he is allowed a specific amount of steroids in his body. These levels are well documented. When he gets tested, ( Lance claims he gets tested more than any other athlete) they make sure that his steroid levels do not exceed a certain point. He gets tested so much by the French because they would love nothing more than to discredit him and nullify all of his TDF victories. If Lance was doing something illegal, they would have discovered it by now.
 
I believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well...Lance has done some extraordinary things in cycling and away from cycling, but he's just as a much a doper as the rest of 'em...
 
rdmountaingoat said:
I don't believe Lance is doping in the illegal sense. I believe he is taking an approved amount of steroids in order to survive his bout with cancer. When lance gets tested he is allowed a specific amount of steroids in his body. These levels are well documented. When he gets tested, ( Lance claims he gets tested more than any other athlete) they make sure that his steroid levels do not exceed a certain point. He gets tested so much by the French because they would love nothing more than to discredit him and nullify all of his TDF victories. If Lance was doing something illegal, they would have discovered it by now.


hello friend. i just said the exact same thing on a different thread. there's absolutely no way he wouldn't have been caught by now if he has been doping, none whatsover.

"Everybody wants to know what I'm on. What am I on? I'm on by bike busting my ass for six hours a day. What are you on?" ~ Big Lance Armstrong
 
rdmountaingoat said:
I don't believe Lance is doping in the illegal sense. I believe he is taking an approved amount of steroids in order to survive his bout with cancer. When lance gets tested he is allowed a specific amount of steroids in his body. These levels are well documented. When he gets tested, ( Lance claims he gets tested more than any other athlete) they make sure that his steroid levels do not exceed a certain point. He gets tested so much by the French because they would love nothing more than to discredit him and nullify all of his TDF victories. If Lance was doing something illegal, they would have discovered it by now.

Ok Roadhouse...:D
 
tonyzackery said:
I believe in Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy as well...Lance has done some extraordinary things in cycling and away from cycling, but he's just as a much a doper as the rest of 'em...

Agreed, & Lemond included.
 
In response to tonyzackery-if you honestly believe that LA is a doper and hasn't been caught by the French media-you have no business believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. I know that Greg Lemond is not a Lance supporter, but I can see where he is coming from. Lemond raced in Europe on mostly French teams and they used him up and spit him out. He still fought and single handedly won 3 TDF titles. This at a time when American cycling was virtually non-existent. Lemond to me is the best American cyclist we have ever had. If Lemond had lead an American based team he would most probably have won many more tours. Also, had he not had a hunting accident and gotten shot, he would have been unstoppable. So, for Lemond to see the success that LA gets for his accomplishments, after Lemond paved the way for every American cyclist, its got to give him a bad taste when the subject of doping comes into the picture. I don't pretend to know what Lemond's battle is with LA specifically, I think it's best to leave that between them. I stand firm to my opinion about Lance riding within the guidelines of his steroid use because of his cancer. I will continue until someone more knowledgeable and intelligible forms a more logical response. Santa Claus-Tooth Fairy. get real!
 
rdmountaingoat said:
In response to tonyzackery-if you honestly believe that LA is a doper and hasn't been caught by the French media-you have no business believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. I know that Greg Lemond is not a Lance supporter, but I can see where he is coming from. Lemond raced in Europe on mostly French teams and they used him up and spit him out. He still fought and single handedly won 3 TDF titles. This at a time when American cycling was virtually non-existent. Lemond to me is the best American cyclist we have ever had. If Lemond had lead an American based team he would most probably have won many more tours. Also, had he not had a hunting accident and gotten shot, he would have been unstoppable. So, for Lemond to see the success that LA gets for his accomplishments, after Lemond paved the way for every American cyclist, its got to give him a bad taste when the subject of doping comes into the picture. I don't pretend to know what Lemond's battle is with LA specifically, I think it's best to leave that between them. I stand firm to my opinion about Lance riding within the guidelines of his steroid use because of his cancer. I will continue until someone more knowledgeable and intelligible forms a more logical response. Santa Claus-Tooth Fairy. get real!

The performance margins in elite sport are minimal. EPO gives a rider an extra 5 or 10 or even 20 % power. Armstrong was thrashing proven dopers like Ullrich, Basso et al just by training harder?! Through simple deduction there can only be one conclusion.
 
rdmountaingoat said:
So, for Lemond to see the success that LA gets for his accomplishments, after Lemond paved the way for every American cyclist, its got to give him a bad taste when the subject of doping comes into the picture. I don't pretend to know what Lemond's battle is with LA specifically, I think it's best to leave that between them.

Should have, could have, would have, but didnt do it! Lance Armstrong did.

So be it!

mattp1975 said:
The performance margins in elite sport are minimal. EPO gives a rider an extra 5 or 10 or even 20 % power.

When I started lifting weights I eventually achieved an extra 20% power increase without the use of EPO, due to more force being applied to the pedals.

Lances extra 20% certainly by no means has to come via doping, I've proved it.
 
mattp1975 said:
The performance margins in elite sport are minimal. EPO gives a rider an extra 5 or 10 or even 20 % power. Armstrong was thrashing proven dopers like Ullrich, Basso et al just by training harder?! Through simple deduction there can only be one conclusion.
This is exactly to kind of reasoning the French have and they have yet to prove their case. This is not clear cut.
 
I read most of the other discussion on this topic, one thing to remember is that Lance in the days he won the World Championship was largely a 'one day racer' and then people will give you a stat about how he withdrew from one tour and finished low in another, something like that, one can check the stats for yourself but with Lance's comeback, he became a Tour Rider and just for the Tour.

Doing only the Tour, being highly secretive, his conflicts with people like Simeoni are typical of the things that arouse suspicions.
 
rdmountaingoat said:
In response to tonyzackery-if you honestly believe that LA is a doper and hasn't been caught by the French media-you have no business believing in Santa Claus or the Tooth Fairy. I know that Greg Lemond is not a Lance supporter, but I can see where he is coming from. Lemond raced in Europe on mostly French teams and they used him up and spit him out. He still fought and single handedly won 3 TDF titles. This at a time when American cycling was virtually non-existent. Lemond to me is the best American cyclist we have ever had. If Lemond had lead an American based team he would most probably have won many more tours. Also, had he not had a hunting accident and gotten shot, he would have been unstoppable. So, for Lemond to see the success that LA gets for his accomplishments, after Lemond paved the way for every American cyclist, its got to give him a bad taste when the subject of doping comes into the picture. I don't pretend to know what Lemond's battle is with LA specifically, I think it's best to leave that between them. I stand firm to my opinion about Lance riding within the guidelines of his steroid use because of his cancer. I will continue until someone more knowledgeable and intelligible forms a more logical response. Santa Claus-Tooth Fairy. get real!

Greg Lemond left the Peloton because EPO took it over and he could not compete even if he prepared very well. I don't think he had a bad relationship with the French, if you read his book on cycling, he uses French bicycle fitting and the like so I don't think he is embittered. I do believe the Lance to Landis book reads how Lemond talked to some old mechanic for USPS and this mechanic had been working as a bike mechanic in Europe for ages on the circuit, a Belgian and the mechanic told Lemond off the record, that USPS was doing a lot of doping. So if one wants to call it hearsay, fine. It has been reported.

"This is exactly to kind of reasoning the French have and they have yet to prove their case. This is not clear cut."

And Michael Ashenden Michael Ashenden | NY Velocity - New York bike racing culture, news and events of Australia and Americans, Irish, Canadians, etc.
 
King Plum said:
Greg Lemond left the Peloton because EPO took it over and he could not compete even if he prepared very well. I don't think he had a bad relationship with the French, if you read his book on cycling, he uses French bicycle fitting and the like so I don't think he is embittered. I do believe the Lance to Landis book reads how Lemond talked to some old mechanic for USPS and this mechanic had been working as a bike mechanic in Europe for ages on the circuit, a Belgian and the mechanic told Lemond off the record, that USPS was doing a lot of doping. So if one wants to call it hearsay, fine. It has been reported.

"This is exactly to kind of reasoning the French have and they have yet to prove their case. This is not clear cut."















We already know about all the speculation and hearsay surrounding LA and doping. You guys all keep pulling rabbits out of the hat like it's some big show. Until someone knows for sure and actually comes up with something substantial and not disputable, I'll keep watching bike racing because I love the sport. What is it that drives you? All you do is fuel the fire.
 
rdmountaingoat said:
King Plum said:
Greg Lemond left the Peloton because EPO took it over and he could not compete even if he prepared very well. I don't think he had a bad relationship with the French, if you read his book on cycling, he uses French bicycle fitting and the like so I don't think he is embittered. I do believe the Lance to Landis book reads how Lemond talked to some old mechanic for USPS and this mechanic had been working as a bike mechanic in Europe for ages on the circuit, a Belgian and the mechanic told Lemond off the record, that USPS was doing a lot of doping. So if one wants to call it hearsay, fine. It has been reported.

"This is exactly to kind of reasoning the French have and they have yet to prove their case. This is not clear cut."















We already know about all the speculation and hearsay surrounding LA and doping. You guys all keep pulling rabbits out of the hat like it's some big show. Until someone knows for sure and actually comes up with something substantial and not disputable, I'll keep watching bike racing because I love the sport. What is it that drives you? All you do is fuel the fire.
 
rdmountaingoat said:

Put a cap on it RdMountainGoat, above seem to be statements by you that seem to say you are nothing but a racist or whatever that is that "The French did this" and "the French spit out Lemond" besides not having a grasp on the information so I don't see how we all know about these events.

People talk about controversial sports incidences from years ago. Too bad, Lance fans seem so offended.

Also, I'm not one of those guys "who keeps pulling rabbits out of a hat", all that you must be against is a discourse on the issue, not taking sides on either side, but someone who just throws out name calling and prejudice as a debate one wonders about too. Just as any sports star, Bonds, etc. who people wonder about if his feats are valid, why do we say, "can't do that with Armstrong", we know Ullrich, Basso, Millar, etc. never failed tests either.

Backdated test, fact, hunting down Simeoni, fact. Don't just call that all hearsay and please I'm not French but don't just toss out bigotted remarks and think they will not be challenged.
 
King Plum said:
rdmountaingoat said:
Put a cap on it RdMountainGoat, above seem to be statements by you that seem to say you are nothing but a racist or whatever that is that "The French did this" and "the French spit out Lemond" besides not having a grasp on the information so I don't see how we all know about these events.

People talk about controversial sports incidences from years ago. Too bad, Lance fans seem so offended.

Also, I'm not one of those guys "who keeps pulling rabbits out of a hat", all that you must be against is a discourse on the issue, not taking sides on either side, but someone who just throws out name calling and prejudice as a debate one wonders about too. Just as any sports star, Bonds, etc. who people wonder about if his feats are valid, why do we say, "can't do that with Armstrong", we know Ullrich, Basso, Millar, etc. never failed tests either.

Backdated test, fact, hunting down Simeoni, fact. Don't just call that all hearsay and please I'm not French but don't just toss out bigotted remarks and think they will not be challenged.

Quite right, anyway it's not just the french who are suspicious of his performances. Armstrong definitely is evasive, secretive, disloyal and a bully so why not a cheat?
 
King Plum said:
Greg Lemond left the Peloton because EPO took it over and he could not compete even if he prepared very well. I don't think he had a bad relationship with the French, if you read his book on cycling, he uses French bicycle fitting and the like so I don't think he is embittered.

Funny that LeMond called his USA made "carbonframes" bike, the best he'd even ridden...

So you think that LeMond didn't take drugs? Explain then, how in the course of a couple of days, mid 1989, he could go from being shelled out the back at even dropped by the sprinters in the mountains of the Giro to finishing on the podium during the final time trial - and then going onto win the Tour and the Worlds. Seeing Greg go up the final climb in the worlds just made a complete mockery of everyone in the race. An impressive piece of big gear climbing.

Hmmm, the first half of the season is a complete disaster with many races not even finished and then "oh, I have an iron deficiency" and a beyond Lance miraculous recovery. Drugs? Certainly not...
 
"Funny that LeMond called his USA made "carbonframes" bike, the best he'd even ridden..."

Are you saying this has anything to do with bike fitting: page 118, "Greg Lemond's complete book of bicycling"?? Or what is this being addressed to even? Bike fit, 58 cm top tube or standover height, all of that stuff.

"So you think that LeMond didn't take drugs?"

I don't recall anyone even alluding to Greg Lemond's drug intake, it seems he has had serious alcohol problems he has dealt with.

"Explain then, how in the course of a couple of days, mid 1989, he could go from being shelled out the back at even dropped by the sprinters in the mountains of the Giro to finishing on the podium during the final time trial - and then going onto win the Tour and the Worlds. Seeing Greg go up the final climb in the worlds just made a complete mockery of everyone in the race. An impressive piece of big gear climbing."

I'm glad you told us this, to tell you the truth, I do have suspicions on him as well.

"Hmmm, the first half of the season is a complete disaster with many races not even finished and then "oh, I have an iron deficiency" and a beyond Lance miraculous recovery. Drugs? Certainly not..."

You make good points but the book "Bad Blood" seems to indicate Lemond left the Tour because he could not keep up with the r-EPO era cyclists. All that said, there doesn't seem to be widespread criticisms of Lemond winning by PEDs and EPO seems to be a complete gamechanger from previous uses of amphetamines and testerone, it puts the race on a whole new plateau.
 
swampy1970 said:
So you think that LeMond didn't take drugs? Explain then, how in the course of a couple of days, mid 1989, he could go from being shelled out the back at even dropped by the sprinters in the mountains of the Giro to finishing on the podium during the final time trial - and then going onto win the Tour and the Worlds.
Nice try. LeMond rode the 1989 Giro as training, starting out the race in poor condition. He still placed 39th overall. Sorry, you'll have to make up some more BS to support your doping apologism for Armstrong.
 
Bro Deal said:
Nice try. LeMond rode the 1989 Giro as training, starting out the race in poor condition. He still placed 39th overall. Sorry, you'll have to make up some more BS to support your doping apologism for Armstrong.

Armstrong and LeMond, as cyclists, have nothing to do with each other. LeMond portrays himself as squeaky clean - and I'd like to believe that. I'd like to believe that Armstrong is too... but I also have doubts about both riders. I

If you'd read my post you'd realise that I was refering to the comment that Greg left the peloton because he couldn't compete with riders in EPO... Nothing to do with Armstrong - but hey, have at it bucko, try your best to drag Lance (and your hatred for him) into another thread.

I'm old enough to remember LeMond rising through the pro ranks and onto his first win. I almost remember Greg almost quiting pro cycling during the early part of 1989 and his mystery overnight "recovery" from aenemia by vitamin B12 and iron shots from his soigneur, Otto, and coming back into form. Having suffered from aenemia and gone through similar 'shots' I know, like many others, that you don't just recover mystically overnight, or even over a few days... If Greg was given something, knowingly or not, for anemia and the resulting low hematocrit and hgb and it worked really fast - it certainly wasn't "iron shots". I could think of something that was out in the pro peloton that'd fit a rapid increase of performance.

Bone up on your history a little while you're at it rather than reading something of CNN from back in the day.
 
swampy1970 said:
I'm old enough to remember LeMond rising through the pro ranks and onto his first win. I almost remember Greg almost quiting pro cycling during the early part of 1989 and his mystery overnight "recovery" from aenemia by vitamin B12 and iron shots from his soigneur, Otto, and coming back into form. Having suffered from aenemia and gone through similar 'shots' I know, like many others, that you don't just recover mystically overnight, or even over a few days... If Greg was given something, knowingly or not, for anemia and the resulting low hematocrit and hgb and it worked really fast - it certainly wasn't "iron shots". I could think of something that was out in the pro peloton that'd fit a rapid increase of performance.

Bone up on your history a little while you're at it rather than reading something of CNN from back in the day.

The numbers do not lie. LeMond placed 39th overall in the 1989 Giro. He did not suddenly gain a hundred places in the last few days of the Giro. He was not riding with the top riders for most of the Giro, but he was hardly fighting off the broom wagon.

You are the one who is alleging that LeMond took drugs to miraculously turn his form around overnight, so what did he take? You tinfoil hatters are always claiming EPO use, but EPO takes weeks to have a large effect.
 

Similar threads