Lance goes slumming.

[jean-yves hervé]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "jean-yves hervé" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > 2) The 19th century local "angel maker" had absolutely no technological
> > or medical advantage over her 6th century BC colleague. Before
> > sterilization, a scrapper is a scrapper, no matter what the century.
> > Bronze or bone works as well as steel for that purpose.
>
> Save this - without artificial lighting and magnification there's no way to
> know what to scrape and if you wait until it grows enough to see unaided
> scraping it off generally leads to extreme bleeding and often death.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, abortion never was and isn't now some simple
> procedure without mortal danger.

I don't know where you get your notions of "popular belief" from.
Nobody on rst has argued that "safe abortion" was common, or even
existed, before 1900. What we are objecting to is your writing that
Christ did not say anything about abortion because there was nothing to
talk about in his time. All evidence seems instead to indicate that
people have for a long time tried to terminate pregnancies. That the
techniques used at the time may not have been efficient, or were
lethally dangerous for the mother, does not change the fact that
abortion was fairly common in ancient times.

jyh.

 

[jean-yves hervé]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "jean-yves hervé" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> >
> > 2) The 19th century local "angel maker" had absolutely no technological
> > or medical advantage over her 6th century BC colleague. Before
> > sterilization, a scrapper is a scrapper, no matter what the century.
> > Bronze or bone works as well as steel for that purpose.
>
> Save this - without artificial lighting and magnification there's no way to
> know what to scrape and if you wait until it grows enough to see unaided
> scraping it off generally leads to extreme bleeding and often death.
>
> Contrary to popular belief, abortion never was and isn't now some simple
> procedure without mortal danger.

I don't know where you get your notions of "popular belief" from.
Nobody on rst has argued that "safe abortion" was common, or even
existed, before 1900. What we are objecting to is your writing that
Christ did not say anything about abortion because there was nothing to
talk about in his time. All evidence seems instead to indicate that
people have for a long time tried to terminate pregnancies. That the
techniques used at the time may not have been efficient, or were
lethally dangerous for the mother, does not change the fact that
abortion was fairly common in ancient times.

jyh.

 

[jean-yves hervé]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "jean-yves hervé" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jean-Yves - exactly how did they perform abortions before, say, 1800
> >> without
> >> killing the woman?
> >
> > Abortion was never a safe procedure, but there is plenty of evidence
> > that it has be performed for a very long time
> >
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Contraception-Abortion-Ancient-World-Renaissance/dp/0
> > 674168763>
> >
> > In the 6th century BC Solon wrote an constitution for Athens that
> > explicitly prohibited abortion without the father's agreement. I doubt
> > that he would have bothered including this if abortion did not exist
> > back then.
>
> Jean-Yves, surely you understand that folk medicine only very rarely works?
> And usually there's no basis at all for the claims?

"very rarely works", or even "does not work at all" does not matter.
The question is: Were people doing it, or at least trying to, in
ancient times? The answer to this is obviously yes. That on top of
that it may have been extremely dangerous when it worked is also besides
the point: abortion has been with us for a very long time. Similarly,
astrology is a bunch of horseshit, and it does not work at all, yet it
would never occur to me to say that people do not consult astrologists
because I know that there is nothing valuable to get from them.

jyh.

 

[jean-yves hervé]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "jean-yves hervé" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jean-Yves - exactly how did they perform abortions before, say, 1800
> >> without
> >> killing the woman?
> >
> > Abortion was never a safe procedure, but there is plenty of evidence
> > that it has be performed for a very long time
> >
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Contraception-Abortion-Ancient-World-Renaissance/dp/0
> > 674168763>
> >
> > In the 6th century BC Solon wrote an constitution for Athens that
> > explicitly prohibited abortion without the father's agreement. I doubt
> > that he would have bothered including this if abortion did not exist
> > back then.
>
> Jean-Yves, surely you understand that folk medicine only very rarely works?
> And usually there's no basis at all for the claims?

"very rarely works", or even "does not work at all" does not matter.
The question is: Were people doing it, or at least trying to, in
ancient times? The answer to this is obviously yes. That on top of
that it may have been extremely dangerous when it worked is also besides
the point: abortion has been with us for a very long time. Similarly,
astrology is a bunch of horseshit, and it does not work at all, yet it
would never occur to me to say that people do not consult astrologists
because I know that there is nothing valuable to get from them.

jyh.

 

[jean-yves hervé]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "jean-yves hervé" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jean-Yves - exactly how did they perform abortions before, say, 1800
> >> without
> >> killing the woman?
> >
> > Abortion was never a safe procedure, but there is plenty of evidence
> > that it has be performed for a very long time
> >
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Contraception-Abortion-Ancient-World-Renaissance/dp/0
> > 674168763>
> >
> > In the 6th century BC Solon wrote an constitution for Athens that
> > explicitly prohibited abortion without the father's agreement. I doubt
> > that he would have bothered including this if abortion did not exist
> > back then.
>
> Jean-Yves, surely you understand that folk medicine only very rarely works?
> And usually there's no basis at all for the claims?

"very rarely works", or even "does not work at all" does not matter.
The question is: Were people doing it, or at least trying to, in
ancient times? The answer to this is obviously yes. That on top of
that it may have been extremely dangerous when it worked is also besides
the point: abortion has been with us for a very long time. Similarly,
astrology is a bunch of horseshit, and it does not work at all, yet it
would never occur to me to say that people do not consult astrologists
because I know that there is nothing valuable to get from them.

jyh.

 

[jean-yves hervé]

In article <[email protected]>,
"Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:

> "jean-yves hervé" <[email protected]> wrote in message
> news:[email protected]...
> > In article <[email protected]>,
> > "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>
> >> Jean-Yves - exactly how did they perform abortions before, say, 1800
> >> without
> >> killing the woman?
> >
> > Abortion was never a safe procedure, but there is plenty of evidence
> > that it has be performed for a very long time
> >
> > <http://www.amazon.com/Contraception-Abortion-Ancient-World-Renaissance/dp/0
> > 674168763>
> >
> > In the 6th century BC Solon wrote an constitution for Athens that
> > explicitly prohibited abortion without the father's agreement. I doubt
> > that he would have bothered including this if abortion did not exist
> > back then.
>
> Jean-Yves, surely you understand that folk medicine only very rarely works?
> And usually there's no basis at all for the claims?

"very rarely works", or even "does not work at all" does not matter.
The question is: Were people doing it, or at least trying to, in
ancient times? The answer to this is obviously yes. That on top of
that it may have been extremely dangerous when it worked is also besides
the point: abortion has been with us for a very long time. Similarly,
astrology is a bunch of horseshit, and it does not work at all, yet it
would never occur to me to say that people do not consult astrologists
because I know that there is nothing valuable to get from them.

jyh.

 

[Fred Fredburger]

Bill C wrote:
> On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Bill C wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
>>>>>>> liberal said that.
>>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
>>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
>>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
>>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
>>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
>>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
>>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
>>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
>>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
>>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
>> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
>> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>>
>> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
>> about it.
>>
>> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
>> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
>> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
>> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
>> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>>
>> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
>> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> point me to them.

Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.

This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.

As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
ass!).

Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
the mote out of thy brother’s eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
who's putting words in his mouth.

So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.

 

[Fred Fredburger]

Bill C wrote:
> On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Bill C wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
>>>>>>> liberal said that.
>>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
>>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
>>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
>>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
>>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
>>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
>>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
>>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
>>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
>>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
>> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
>> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>>
>> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
>> about it.
>>
>> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
>> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
>> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
>> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
>> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>>
>> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
>> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> point me to them.

Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.

This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.

As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
ass!).

Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
the mote out of thy brother’s eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
who's putting words in his mouth.

So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.

 

[Fred Fredburger]

Bill C wrote:
> On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Bill C wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
>>>>>>> liberal said that.
>>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
>>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
>>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
>>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
>>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
>>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
>>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
>>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
>>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
>>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
>> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
>> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>>
>> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
>> about it.
>>
>> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
>> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
>> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
>> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
>> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>>
>> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
>> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> point me to them.

Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.

This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.

As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
ass!).

Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
the mote out of thy brother’s eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
who's putting words in his mouth.

So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.

 

[Fred Fredburger]

Bill C wrote:
> On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Bill C wrote:
>>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
>>> <[email protected]> wrote:
>>>> Bill C wrote:
>>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
>>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
>>>>>> news:[email protected]...
>>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
>>>>>>> liberal said that.
>>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
>>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
>>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
>>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
>>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
>>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
>>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
>>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
>>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
>>>> - Show quoted text -
>>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
>>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
>> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
>> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>>
>> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
>> about it.
>>
>> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
>> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
>> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
>> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
>> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>>
>> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
>> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>>
>> - Show quoted text -
>
> Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> point me to them.

Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.

This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.

As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
ass!).

Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
the mote out of thy brother’s eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
who's putting words in his mouth.

So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.

 

[Bill C]

On Nov 8, 11:08 am, Fred Fredburger
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Bill C wrote:
> >>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Bill C wrote:
> >>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
> >>>>>>> liberal said that.
> >>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
> >>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
> >>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
> >>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
> >>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
> >>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
> >>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
> >>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
> >>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
> >>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
> >> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
> >> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>
> >> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
> >> about it.
>
> >> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
> >> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
> >> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
> >> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
> >> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>
> >> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
> >> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> > refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> > something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> > evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> > point me to them.
>
> Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
> is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
> one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
> believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
> determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
> choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
> agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.
>
> This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.
>
> As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
> believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
> word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
> have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
> Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
> Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
> ass!).
>
> Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
> concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
> thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
> obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
> the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
> firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
> What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
> beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
> the mote out of thy brother's eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
> of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
> maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
> who's putting words in his mouth.
>
> So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
> strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gee, ya mean life isn't simple for rational beings?
Let's be honest here, every religious text is a mish-mash of what the
current crop of leaders/politicians needed them to say at any given
point early on, then once the books were mostly finalized they started
on what it means to be "insert your favorite religion here", and
whacking each other over power and control.
Saqmae as secular politicians/leaders. Thunk the fault might be in
the humans?
That's why I laugh at Kyle's "Lets all love each other, hold hands,
and sing Kumbaya." Great philosphy, wonderful goal, not really
workable at any forseeable point in the near future given the nature
of humans.
This is especially approptiate since it's being discussed in the
venue of discussion of competition. As long as humans are driven to
suceed, compete, gain wealth and power, that's not gonna fly.
Humans are animals, and want to be alpha males. Always have been,
even some of the females, anything else is nice dreams and pablum.
It's gilding the pig.
Bill C

 

[Bill C]

On Nov 8, 11:08 am, Fred Fredburger
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Bill C wrote:
> >>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Bill C wrote:
> >>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
> >>>>>>> liberal said that.
> >>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
> >>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
> >>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
> >>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
> >>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
> >>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
> >>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
> >>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
> >>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
> >>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
> >> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
> >> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>
> >> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
> >> about it.
>
> >> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
> >> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
> >> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
> >> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
> >> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>
> >> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
> >> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> > refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> > something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> > evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> > point me to them.
>
> Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
> is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
> one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
> believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
> determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
> choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
> agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.
>
> This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.
>
> As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
> believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
> word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
> have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
> Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
> Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
> ass!).
>
> Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
> concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
> thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
> obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
> the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
> firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
> What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
> beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
> the mote out of thy brother's eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
> of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
> maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
> who's putting words in his mouth.
>
> So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
> strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gee, ya mean life isn't simple for rational beings?
Let's be honest here, every religious text is a mish-mash of what the
current crop of leaders/politicians needed them to say at any given
point early on, then once the books were mostly finalized they started
on what it means to be "insert your favorite religion here", and
whacking each other over power and control.
Saqmae as secular politicians/leaders. Thunk the fault might be in
the humans?
That's why I laugh at Kyle's "Lets all love each other, hold hands,
and sing Kumbaya." Great philosphy, wonderful goal, not really
workable at any forseeable point in the near future given the nature
of humans.
This is especially approptiate since it's being discussed in the
venue of discussion of competition. As long as humans are driven to
suceed, compete, gain wealth and power, that's not gonna fly.
Humans are animals, and want to be alpha males. Always have been,
even some of the females, anything else is nice dreams and pablum.
It's gilding the pig.
Bill C

 

[Bill C]

On Nov 8, 11:08 am, Fred Fredburger
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Bill C wrote:
> >>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Bill C wrote:
> >>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
> >>>>>>> liberal said that.
> >>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
> >>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
> >>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
> >>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
> >>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
> >>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
> >>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
> >>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
> >>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
> >>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
> >> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
> >> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>
> >> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
> >> about it.
>
> >> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
> >> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
> >> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
> >> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
> >> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>
> >> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
> >> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> > refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> > something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> > evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> > point me to them.
>
> Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
> is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
> one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
> believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
> determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
> choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
> agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.
>
> This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.
>
> As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
> believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
> word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
> have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
> Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
> Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
> ass!).
>
> Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
> concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
> thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
> obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
> the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
> firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
> What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
> beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
> the mote out of thy brother's eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
> of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
> maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
> who's putting words in his mouth.
>
> So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
> strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gee, ya mean life isn't simple for rational beings?
Let's be honest here, every religious text is a mish-mash of what the
current crop of leaders/politicians needed them to say at any given
point early on, then once the books were mostly finalized they started
on what it means to be "insert your favorite religion here", and
whacking each other over power and control.
Saqmae as secular politicians/leaders. Thunk the fault might be in
the humans?
That's why I laugh at Kyle's "Lets all love each other, hold hands,
and sing Kumbaya." Great philosphy, wonderful goal, not really
workable at any forseeable point in the near future given the nature
of humans.
This is especially approptiate since it's being discussed in the
venue of discussion of competition. As long as humans are driven to
suceed, compete, gain wealth and power, that's not gonna fly.
Humans are animals, and want to be alpha males. Always have been,
even some of the females, anything else is nice dreams and pablum.
It's gilding the pig.
Bill C

 

[Bill C]

On Nov 8, 11:08 am, Fred Fredburger
<[email protected]> wrote:
> Bill C wrote:
> > On Nov 7, 11:11 pm, Fred Fredburger
> > <[email protected]> wrote:
> >> Bill C wrote:
> >>> On Nov 4, 6:56 pm, Fred Fredburger
> >>> <[email protected]> wrote:
> >>>> Bill C wrote:
> >>>>> On Nov 4, 4:06 pm, "Tom Kunich" <cyclintom@yahoo. com> wrote:
> >>>>>> <[email protected]> wrote in message
> >>>>>>news:[email protected]...
> >>>>>>> Bill, the poor are always with us. Some longhaired
> >>>>>>> liberal said that.
> >>>>>> If only you had a clue what "liberal" means.
> >>>>> Hey Ben how does that long haired "liberal" feel about abortion,
> >>>>> divorce, adultery, etc...seems that he, and especially his dad,
> >>>>> weren't exactly Liberals.
> >>>>> Of course my mother in law, who's a pretty serious amateur religious
> >>>>> scholar, and church officer claims that theres not a whole lot of
> >>>>> Christ, in current Christianity either.
> >>>> You should ask your mother-in-law what Christ had to say about abortion.
> >>>> You will be surprised at the answer.- Hide quoted text -
> >>>> - Show quoted text -
> >>> We have, more or less. Both of us are grudgingly pro-choice, but her
> >>> take is that nowhere is abortion supported by Christianity.
> >> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
> >> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>
> >> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
> >> about it.
>
> >> Some might call that contradictory. I, however, have chosen to found a
> >> new religion on your writings. I will call it Billianity, or perhaps
> >> Billiousness. I will make BILLIONS, but first I will have to find a way
> >> to get billions of dollars into the hands of the homeless schizophrenics
> >> who are likely to be our only adherents.
>
> >> And now, I am having a vision of the future! I'm seeing something ...
> >> it's coming into focus ... It's the "Send" but...- Hide quoted text -
>
> >> - Show quoted text -
>
> > Are you a cafeteria Christian, or just hard of reading? Christianity
> > refers to the totality of the religion. Maybe she and I missed
> > something somewhere. If you feel there are scriptures, or any other
> > evidence that shows Christ himself in support of abortion, please
> > point me to them.
>
> Be not angry with me, O' confusing one. This Christ person you refer to
> is OK by me, especially in that he reminds me of you so much. He acts
> one way in one place and the opposite in others. This why his followers
> believe such a bewildering array of things. When one attempts to
> determine what Christ would have said, one merely needs to carefully
> choose the scriptural basis for that conjecture in order to obtain his
> agreement with YOUR OWN beliefs and actions.
>
> This is why Christ is great, indeed. But he isn't Billious.
>
> As a result of this, liberals have a solid scriptural basis for
> believing Christ to have been more liberal than Howard Dean (Look up the
> word "judge" in a concordance, the Sermon on the Mount, and what did he
> have against those money changers?) while conservatives are certain
> Jesus regularly listened to Rush Limbaugh (pretty much anything the
> Apostle Paul ever wrote, and BOY! He really kicked those money changers
> ass!).
>
> Seriously, if you DO go to the trouble of looking up "judge" in a
> concordance you'll find plenty of support for the idea that Jesus
> thought we should mostly mind our own business and not spend time
> obsessing about what those "other" people are doing. Apply liberally to
> the abortion topic. Then think of all the picketing, crying, yelling,
> firebombimg etc. that's been done in HIS name over the last 35 years.
> What would Jesus say? How about: "Thou hypocrite, first cast out the
> beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out
> the mote out of thy brother's eye" Matt7:1. But really, there are lots
> of choices here. Jesus repeated that line of thought several times. And
> maybe he would have said something completely different. Depends on
> who's putting words in his mouth.
>
> So Jesus probably wouldn't have "supported abortion" but there's a
> strong basis for an anti-anti-abortion stance that looks pretty Pro-choice.- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Gee, ya mean life isn't simple for rational beings?
Let's be honest here, every religious text is a mish-mash of what the
current crop of leaders/politicians needed them to say at any given
point early on, then once the books were mostly finalized they started
on what it means to be "insert your favorite religion here", and
whacking each other over power and control.
Saqmae as secular politicians/leaders. Thunk the fault might be in
the humans?
That's why I laugh at Kyle's "Lets all love each other, hold hands,
and sing Kumbaya." Great philosphy, wonderful goal, not really
workable at any forseeable point in the near future given the nature
of humans.
This is especially approptiate since it's being discussed in the
venue of discussion of competition. As long as humans are driven to
suceed, compete, gain wealth and power, that's not gonna fly.
Humans are animals, and want to be alpha males. Always have been,
even some of the females, anything else is nice dreams and pablum.
It's gilding the pig.
Bill C

 

[Kyle Legate]

Donald Munro wrote:
>
> We the followers of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster will
> crucify all you BILLious people for not following the one true
> way of the GFSM.
>

May you be touched by his noodley appendage.

 

[Kyle Legate]

Donald Munro wrote:
>
> We the followers of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster will
> crucify all you BILLious people for not following the one true
> way of the GFSM.
>

May you be touched by his noodley appendage.

 

[Kyle Legate]

Donald Munro wrote:
>
> We the followers of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster will
> crucify all you BILLious people for not following the one true
> way of the GFSM.
>

May you be touched by his noodley appendage.

 

[Kyle Legate]

Donald Munro wrote:
>
> We the followers of the Great Flying Spaghetti Monster will
> crucify all you BILLious people for not following the one true
> way of the GFSM.
>

May you be touched by his noodley appendage.

 

[Fred Fredburger]

Kyle Legate wrote:
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>>
>> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
>> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>>
>> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
>> about it.
>>
> http://thepaincomics.com/weekly050504.htm

Yes, that's the guy.

 

[Fred Fredburger]

Kyle Legate wrote:
> Fred Fredburger wrote:
>>
>> You were talking about what Jesus felt about abortion, prefacing that
>> with "... theres not a whole lot of Christ, in current Christianity ..."
>>
>> Now you're using current Christianity as the measure of how Jesus felt
>> about it.
>>
> http://thepaincomics.com/weekly050504.htm

Yes, that's the guy.