Lance tells IOC: Suspend or remove Pound

[bobke]

In a letter to IOC, Lance Amrstrong asks for suspension or removal of **** Pound. He did not release the letter but it was leaked (surprise) and is a startling indictment of the whole process.

The Story:
http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-oly17jun17,1,4850685.story?coll=la-headlines-sports


Lance's letter:
http://www.thepaceline.com/ioc-letter.pdf

 

[musette]

thepaceline has LA's statement requesting that Pound go, and also (on page 2 of the article, LA's letter to the IOC).

 

[Eldrack]

Oh well. Lance's lawyer writes a letter. Lance signs letter, it gets sent to the IOC. Only interesting thing is that it was leaked. It seems to me that Pound has acted irresponsibly so theres no big deal about people calling for his resignation.

So, Cycling? Interesting sport isn't it?

 

[davidbod]

Its not just **** Pound. He is calling for action against **** Pound, WADA, Jacques De Ceaurriz, the French Ministry and the French lab. The best thing **** Pound could do is resign yes, but I don't think his arrogance will alloy him to do so. So my guess is this gets a whole lot more ugly before we see the end of it. And thats just **** Pound, not to mention the rest of the lot. And unless the IOC wants to see all of these entities in a court room being sued by Armstrong they better clean up the mess pronto.

 

[cyclingheroes]

Its not just **** Pound. He is calling for action against **** Pound, WADA, Jacques De Ceaurriz, the French Ministry and the French lab. The best thing **** Pound could do is resign yes, but I don't think his arrogance will alloy him to do so. So my guess is this gets a whole lot more ugly before we see the end of it. And thats just **** Pound, not to mention the rest of the lot. And unless the IOC wants to see all of these entities in a court room being sued by Armstrong they better clean up the mess pronto.

Maybe the IOC wants to have a better look at the Armstrong probes than the UCI commission did, could be intresting.

 

[micron]

I would have thought Armstrong would have been a lot better to leave well enough alone - like you say CH, what if the IOC decide that they'll support Pound and start probing the actual issue - doping - rather than accepting the UCI whitewash?

As ever with Armstrong, methinks he doth protest too much...

 

[jcjordan]

I would have thought Armstrong would have been a lot better to leave well enough alone - like you say CH, what if the IOC decide that they'll support Pound and start probing the actual issue - doping - rather than accepting the UCI whitewash?

As ever with Armstrong, methinks he doth protest too much...

I dont agree. The fact was the the lab did the job so wrong that it made it so obvious that it was a witch hunt. Then that idot Pound jumps in and makes the situation even worse.

Pound seems to have it in for cycling. Yes it has had its problems, and it still has some bad eggs who are screwing it up for all of us, but I would love to see the WADA put in the effort into sports like football (both round and oval types), athletics and the rest.

 

[limerickman]

but I would love to see the WADA put in the effort into sports like football (both round and oval types), athletics and the rest.

The fact of the matter is the ATP (Tennis) strongly oppose drug testing.
They fought and fought to resist all forms of doping controls - and only until the gun was put to it's head by the IOC, did Tennis sign up to anti-doping in July 2004 before the Athens Olympics.

Not that any of this mitigates what's happening in cycling.
Cycling needs to put it's own house in order as regards doping.

Life bans is the only real deterrent.

 

[Capt.Injury]

The fact of the matter is the ATP (Tennis) strongly oppose drug testing.
They fought and fought to resist all forms of doping controls - and only until the gun was put to it's head by the IOC, did Tennis sign up to anti-doping in July 2004 before the Athens Olympics.

Not that any of this mitigates what's happening in cycling.
Cycling needs to put it's own house in order as regards doping.

Life bans is the only real deterrent.

I consider the current punishment pretty severe, with a 2 year ban period, anda 5 year ban from a Pro Tour team it be severe. If we consider that a cyclist main years stretches from 23-32 years old, a 2 year ban is effectiley destroying 20% of there optimal performance. An example would be Tyler Hamilton, when he was suspended he was considered a favorite to podium in a Grand Tour, but by the time that suspension is over, his career as a contending cyclist will effectively be over.

NOw, up it to 3 years would be a very good idea, but no matter how stiff of the penalty, as long as there are the big prizes out there, it will never stop. I think the main problem is that technology is so far ahead of the Cycling Orgainization, riders are sure they won't be caught. Even if they are, due to the several "false positives of the EPO test", I believe most dopers think that somehow they can find a way to defeat a positive through appeals. I wish I could provide a more detailed opinion on how to conquer it, but I don't believe we can resolve the problem with doping, until we find out in detail the far reaching extent of the doping practices. Unfortunately, this requires for this entire current Spanish affairs to turn out into a complete tattle tale on who is doing what, before this can happen, which will just continue to drag cycling's integrity to lower depths then it already is.

 

[musette]

LA is fighting for the integrity of the testing process, for all tested athletes. WADA has to be accountable for its own actions, including breach of confidentiality to which athletes are entitled, and, equally significantly, a knowing breach of its own testing standards and procedures. For the fight against doping to be effective, people have to believe in in the integrity of the testing process and the integrity of the people supervising testing processes. **** Pound has already injured WADA enough and should step down (even though he won't).

 

[cyclingheroes]

LA is fighting for the integrity of the testing process, for all tested athletes.

I strongly doubt that.

 

[limerickman]

I strongly doubt that.

Agreed.

 

[limerickman]

An example would be Tyler Hamilton, when he was suspended he was considered a favorite to podium in a Grand Tour, but by the time that suspension is over, his career as a contending cyclist will effectively be over.

I take your point Capt - in Hamiltons case his age does mean that a 2yr ban
effectively means the end of his career.

But look at David Millar : he's allowed back in to the peloton.
Ditto Virenque.

NOw, up it to 3 years would be a very good idea, but no matter how stiff of the penalty, as long as there are the big prizes out there, it will never stop. I think the main problem is that technology is so far ahead of the Cycling Orgainization, riders are sure they won't be caught. Even if they are, due to the several "false positives of the EPO test", I believe most dopers think that somehow they can find a way to defeat a positive through appeals. I wish I could provide a more detailed opinion on how to conquer it, but I don't believe we can resolve the problem with doping, until we find out in detail the far reaching extent of the doping practices. Unfortunately, this requires for this entire current Spanish affairs to turn out into a complete tattle tale on who is doing what, before this can happen, which will just continue to drag cycling's integrity to lower depths then it already is.

Fair point, Capt.

 

[cyclingheroes]

The question is... is it enough to ban riders... i don't think so... (but ofcourse they should, i just think it's not enough!) the problem is much bigger.

I take your point Capt - in Hamiltons case his age does mean that a 2yr ban
effectively means the end of his career.

But look at David Millar : he's allowed back in to the peloton.
Ditto Virenque.




Fair point, Capt.

 

[DiabloScott]

I don't think life bans would be a deterrent either - it's been shown that the only real deterrent to crime is the perceived risk of being caught; I think the same would go for doping in sport.

That means the only effective cure would be testing and monitoring the athletes on a scale that would virutally eliminate any privacy at all.

And I think the subject issue is a vendetta, worthy or not.

 

[discobean7]

Maybe take a lesson from corporate crime in the U.S. For example when a company is found illegally dumping/polluting, you don't go after the guy who actually threw the barrel of toxic waste in the river. You go after the company with huge fines because that is the only punishment that will have any effect. If a rider is found to be doping and thus is banned for 2 years there will always be another rider to take their place. In addition to the ban you also need to punish the DS and title sponsors. Perhaps a mix of bans and fines for the DS and large fines for the sponsor. This would force teams to police themselves. Make a system where everyone has something to lose if a rider is caught doping.

 

[tasmart]

Since when does LA have the right to tell IOC anything? He can ask but other than the threat of legal action he has no right nor power to tell IOC to do anything. Now I dislike Pound as much as anybody, but what kind of arrogance allows someone to tell IOC to do anything. Geeze

 

[rejobako]

Since when does LA have the right to tell IOC anything? He can ask but other than the threat of legal action he has no right nor power to tell IOC to do anything. Now I dislike Pound as much as anybody, but what kind of arrogance allows someone to tell IOC to do anything. Geeze

There are no threats in the letter. Armstrong offers his opinion and states his case. We all know he's a vindictive guy. And as in his cycling career, he perceives an opponent (in this case, Pound) has a weakness right now and he is poised to exploit it if he can. This little feud is sordid and distasteful, and I think it is demeans both men to exhibit their dislike for each other so publicly.

On the other hand, I think the professional cycling community would be better off without Pound in any sort of position of influence. So whereas I disagree with Armstrong's methods, I'm in support of his goal.

 

[cheapie]

whiile i certainly suspect that lance might have used EPO, a governing body of a sport cannot sidestep the established rules of that sport just because it has a vendetta against someone or has a "feeling" that a person might be guilty.

here in the US, if a cop busted down your door because he thought you had some weed in your apartment w/o a search warrant, he would likely get fired for doing so and anything he found wouldn't stand up in any court.

 

[wolfix]

Everyone better be careful of what they wish for. Doping has always been a major part of the sport. More press has been written about dope in the TDF then about the bicycle itself. "Professional Cycling" translated means "sport that dopes." And this started way back then. The fans don't really care.

The cycling fan has double standards. They scream they want doping controls. 'Dope is wrong" rings thru the land!!!!!!
But then the French embrace Richard V. And when the conversation turns to "The Greatest Rider of All Time" the name Merckx always is argued. But it can honestly be said Merckx was the "Greatest Doper of all Time." So what is it? A rider who was convicted 3 times is a great rider if enough time passes? It's OK if time has passed that a rider has doped , but wrong if a current rider does it?

How can one argue we must punish dopers today when we worship past dopers? { Merckx, Delgado, RichardV, Fignon] and the ones that are highly suspect? {Jacques Anquetil, Riis [Mr.60%], Hinault { the injury he suffered in his career was called 'the dopers injury"by other riders].

Of course it could be argued that LeMond & Indurain did not have doping allegations against them. But if we look at the sport from 1985 to the Festina scandal , doping was never really important enough of an issue to deal with. The TDF may have looked the other way. It was in there best interest to look the other way. And after seeing how WADA and the French ministry has handled themselves in the latest UCI report how do we know that many riders did not test positive and the cycling body looked the other way ?

Most riders convicted of dope in the past 25 years were not convicted of a doping test at the TDF, but rather at other races and other circumstances. The Festina scandal was obvious the drugs were to be used at the TDF. If Festina was not busted, does anyone think we would have had a rash of positives at the TDF that year?

Maybe the TDF would not be the exciting sport we think is without the "mineral water."

I am not saying doping is not cheating. But we must realize that our sport [professional cycling] is the sport of frauds. And always has been. I see it this way, if you have been a fan of the TDf over a period of years and understand it's history, then you do not have strong enough covictions concerning the doping issue. No one can be a fan of the TDf and be anti-doping. Wanting that is living in a fantasy world.
Meanwhile..... The TDF is here and we are about to see some possible doping allegations come down from Spain that could alter the cycling world..... Well, until next year when it will be another scandal.