Landis goes Postal

Discussion in 'Professional Cycling' started by Cobblestones, May 19, 2010.

  1. nns1400

    nns1400 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2006
    Messages:
    6,276
    Likes Received:
    0
    Right, then it's just a delusion.
     


  2. TimEaston

    TimEaston New Member

    Joined:
    May 21, 2010
    Messages:
    8
    Likes Received:
    0
    I fear this might be true it would be a shame as I always though Armstrong was against drugs. Armstrong is not suing Landis which suggests there is an element of truth in the allegations or he fears going to court will release more damaging information. I hope he doesn't do Le Tour De France as it would be ANOTHER TOUR dominated by drug stories, as the 2006 and 2007 editions were.
     
  3. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    33
    i believe that this story is going to make quite the stink over time. an almost comic/epic recapitulation of the very tragi-comedy landis performed for the last few years. start with the out right denial (mr. rihs' "i never heard that landis needed 90.000 for his doping regime."), defend that position rigorously until you're found out, and the alter it to the tried and trued "i never knowingly took peds." or worse, b. stapleton's "let's all look to the future and not dwell on the past." certainly haven't heard that one too often in professional cycling. plus ca change....

    and now another unconfirmed report that mr. novitzky would like to talk to the ex-mrs. armstrong (kristin)! i imagine david walsh's "from lance to landis" is going to be getting a reprint real soon. heck, there might even be a copy floating around a certain federal agent's office today.
     
  4. limerickman

    limerickman Moderator

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2004
    Messages:
    16,130
    Likes Received:
    115
    David Walsh writing his weekly Sundat Times column today






    Lying in a tent at Gorak Shep, 5,170m above sea level in the heart of Nepal, you don’t expect Lance Armstrong to disturb the Himalayan peace. But a text message from a friend had done just that: “Landis, sensational confession, dynamite, implicated Armstrong and others.the six-hour trek down through Lobuche and Dughla to a cyber shack at Pheriche, one question recurred: why had Landis done it? Winner of the 2006 Tour de France, then disqualified after a positive drug test; he had spent two years and $2m in an unsuccessful attempt to clear his name. He returned to the sport after a two-year ban still preaching his innocence.

    What now made him tell what he had for so long denied? D’Angelo Barksdale, a character in David Simon’s iconic TV series The Wire, came to mind. “The past is always with us,” D’Angelo told his fellow prison inmates. “Where we came from, what we go through, how we go through it, all this s*** matters ... What came first is who we really are and what happened before is what really happened.are two Floyd Landises. There is the kid who wanted to escape the strict Mennonite shackles of his rural Pennsylvania background, who defied his parents by sneaking out in darkness to train on the quiet roads around Farmersville. That boy would become a professional, earn a lot of money, take a lot of drugs, tell a lot of lies and live in California.

    California wasn’t where Landis came from. He was Floyd, son of Paul and Arlene, devout members of the Mennonite community. They were people who believed in modesty, honesty and the love of God, who didn’t confuse their needs with their wants. For all that he would become, Floyd loved his parents, respected their way of life.

    “What came first is who we really are,” said D’Angelo and over the past few weeks Landis hesitantly returned to where he came from. In his only interview since the story broke, he told Bonnie Ford of ESPN that he didn’t want to go on “being part of the problem any more. I want to clear my conscience”.

    Related Links
    Landis takes aim after drugs admission
    Lance Armstrong remains cycling’s star attraction
    Multimedia
    OWEN SLOT: Cycling facing fight for credibility
    The emails sent by Landis to cycling and anti-doping officials in Europe and the US were not an attack on his former teammate Lance Armstrong but an account of Landis’ own doping. It is not uncommon for cyclists to admit their doping but generally they try to disconnect their actions from those around them, protecting teammates and team facilitators out of a sense of misguided loyalty.

    Landis has given us the context in which he doped. He tells of the support and the expertise he claims he received from those around him. He offers us plenty of names. For three years, 2002-04, he rode for US Postal, the team owned by Tailwind Sports, which was then 50% owned by Armstrong.

    According to Landis, joining US Postal was the catalyst for a serious commitment to doping. He implicates Armstrong, team manager Johan Bruyneel and various former teammates. The allegations have been denied. “It’s just our word against theirs, and we like our word. We like where we stand,” said Armstrong.

    Not for the first time, Armstrong turned his gun on the accuser. “I remind everyone that this is a man who wrote a book for profit and now has a completely different version.

    The question is which version is to be believed? Is a man more credible when his story is told for profit or, in this case, for no material gain? Those whose careers depend on the credibility of cycling have been quick to denounce Landis. “I feel sorry for the guy because I don’t accept anything he says as true,” said Pat McQuaid, the president of UCI. McQuaid insults our intelligence when he says he doesn’t believe Landis’ admission of doping. Why would any rider say he doped for five years if he didn’t?

    It is the detail in the emails that is arresting. Landis recalls being instructed on how to use testosterone patches by Bruyneel during the 2002 Dauphine Libere race in the south of France. After that race Landis says he and Armstrong flew by helicopter from Grenoble to St Moritz, where he was given a box of testosterone patches by Armstrong. This exchange, according to Landis, was witnessed by Armstrong’s former wife, Kristin.

    Early in 2003, Landis says he went to join his US Postal team-mates for a training camp at Girona in northern Spain. While there, he had four units (two litres) of blood extracted, which would be transfused back into his body later in the season. The blood, he writes in his email, was taken at Armstrong’s Girona apartment and stored alongside blood extracted from Armstrong and another Postal rider, George Hincapie, in a small refrigerator.

    Landis says that as Armstong was going away for three weeks, he asked Landis to take care of the blood and be aware of the danger caused by a power cut. Later that season, according to Landis, he, Armstrong, Hincapie and Jose Luis “Chechu” Rubiera all had their transfusions in the same room and that he witnessed the other three being transfused

    MY PROFILE SHOP JOBS PROPERTY CLASSIFIEDS Most sinister of all, Landis recounts a story allegedly told to him by Armstrong about a failed drug test for the blood-booster EPO by Armstrong at the 2002 Tour de Suisse. According to Landis, the failed test was swept under the carpet after a visit by Armstrong and Bruyneel to Hein Verbruggen, UCI president at the time. In fact, Armstrong won the Tour de Suisse in 2001 and did not compete in 2002.

    As the rider disqualified after winning the 2006 Tour and one who now admits to years of doping, it is easy to dismiss the Landis emails as the lies of the one who had it all and then lost it. Especially as you suspect that if offered a million dollars to stay quiet, the other Floyd Landis, the one who felt entitled to something better than the Mennonite way of life, would have accepted.

    The key to assessing the worth of the Landis accusations is to remember they do not exist in a vacuum. What Landis has put before us is not circumstantial but direct evidence. He says he was there, he witnessed it. He is not the first to offer such evidence. Lying in that tent at Gorak Shep on Thursday evening, thoughts turned to some of the forerunners.

    A July afternoon in 2003 spent at the Liverpool home of the former head soigneur of the US Postal team Emma O’Reilly. She told of her five years with the team, especially the two when only she was allowed to give Armstrong his daily massages. Once she travelled from France to the team’s headquarters in Spain to pick up what she believed was a doping product that she later handed to Armstrong in the car park of a McDonald’s outside Nice.

    Related Links
    Landis takes aim after drugs admission
    Lance Armstrong remains cycling’s star attraction
    Multimedia
    OWEN SLOT: Cycling facing fight for credibility
    She told, too, of the time she disposed of Armstrong’s used syringes, and of the time before the 1999 Tour de France when Armstrong asked her to get some make-up to hide the syringe marks on his arm. And in some detail, she described the evening on that 1999 Tour when Armstrong learnt he had tested positive for a corticoid and how with the help of two team officials, they came up with a plan to backdate a medical exemption for the offending substance. O’Reilly would later repeat all of these accusations under oath. Armstrong dismissed her as a disgruntled former employee.

    I thought, too, of an evening in October 2003 spent at the Auckland home of Stephen Swart, who rode with Armstrong for the Motorola team in 1993 and 1994. According to the New Zealander the Motorola team, frustrated by a lack of results, decided to dope to catch up with their superiors.

    Armstrong, he said, was the leading pro-doping voice in the team. Swart would later repeat these allegations under oath.

    Armstrong said Swart was a bitter former teammate.

    Then there was the afternoon in December 2003 at a hotel in Detroit when another former Motorola and US Postal teammate, Frankie Andreu, told of the seven years he had ridden with Armstrong. Once, in the early years, Armstrong had laid out on the bed of a hotel room all the pills he was taking. “Man,” Andreu said to him at the time, “you’re nuts.” Andreu also told of being in a room at Indiana University Hospital in October 1996 when he heard Armstrong tell doctors he used banned substances prior to being diagnosed with testicular cancer. Andreu’s wife, Betsy, who was also in the room, said she heard the same admission from Armstrong.

    Before the Andreus repeated these allegations under oath, Armstrong emailed Frankie and asked him to remember that his [Armstrong’s] success in cycling benefited everybody.

    I thought, too, of Mike Anderson, the personal assistant employed by Armstrong for two years, 2003 and 2004. So central was Anderson to the lives of the family that Kristin Armstrong referred to him as H2, husband number two. I met Anderson in Austin, Texas, and he told of the day that changed his view of Armstrong.

    It was the spring of 2004, the Armstrongs had separated, Lance had hooked up with the singer Sheryl Crow and was taking her to the Girona apartment for the first time. According to Anderson, who was in Girona ahead of his boss, Armstrong called and asked him to go through the apartment and “de-Kik” it [Armstrong referred to his former wife as Kik]. While doing that task, Anderson claimed he found a small bottle in a medical cabinet that had the label “Androstenin”, and after looking up the list of banned products on his laptop, he was sure his boss was doping. Their relationship was never the same after that.

    When Anderson made public his discovery, Armstrong dismissed him as a bitter former employee.

    I stayed in touch with O’Reilly, Swart, the Andreus and Anderson long after the interviews ended. And one thing always puzzled me: why would good people make up vicious lies about Armstrong? The difference with the Landis emails is that he presented them as a challenge to cycling and anti-doping authorities: what are you going to do about this?

    Long ago, cycling’s authorities decided it would not wash in public any linen belonging to Armstrong. The United States Anti-Doping Authority has taken a different line and appointed the federal investigator Jeff Novitzky to the case. Landis and Armstrong’s former wife are understood to be co-operating. The choice of Novitzky is significant because if his work in the infamous Balco case proved anything, it was that lying to federal investigators is not a good idea.

    If Novitzky concludes that US Postal did run a doping programme, Armstrong and others could face charges. Through Tailwind Sports, the US Postal team was funded by taxpayers’ money. The penalties for misusing such funds are draconian.

    The Landis emails may have been but the first chapter in a story destined to become far more interesting



    Sorry I only posted page 1 earlier - I've now posted page 2 of Walsh's article.
    Apologies.
     
  5. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    33
    ta, lim. mr. walsh is a wonderfully perceptive fellow. i like that he picked up on landis' thick descriptions. adding the detail to the accusation will either sink or support landis' version. i, like many, have no idea what will come to light, but walsh's point about valuing a man's word when he's trying to maintain his income stream or when he's "fessing" up with no hope of financial reward is most beautiful.

    and, oh, my, this just in which strikes at the notion that "things just don't get covered up" at doping control central! http://nyvelocity.com/content/features/2010/dirty-deal
     
  6. baker3

    baker3 New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 13, 2009
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    1
    Landis is telling the truth at last, it is a shame he flushed his credibility down the toilet on July 27, 2006.
     
  7. adamastor

    adamastor New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  8. jhuskey

    jhuskey Moderator

    Joined:
    Oct 6, 2003
    Messages:
    10,607
    Likes Received:
    341
     
  9. gtm

    gtm New Member

    Joined:
    Jul 27, 2009
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    0
     
  10. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    33
  11. adamastor

    adamastor New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
    Let's talk about the famous "Armstrong didn't ride the 2002 Tour de Suisse" story.

    Well, to me, Landis has never stated that either.


    On the link below, you can find the letter (although I cannot vouch for its veracity) Landis allegedly sent by email to the UCI and USADA beginning of May.

    Read the year 2002:
    "...2002:
    I was instructed on how to use Testosterone patches by Johan Bruyneel during the During the Dauphine Libere in June, after which I flew on a helicopter with Mr Armstrong from the finish, I believe Grenoble, to San Mauritz Switzerland at which point I was personally handed a box of 2.5 mg patches in front of his wife who witnessed the exchange. About a week later, Dr Ferrari performed an extraction of half a liter of blood to be transfused back into me during the Tour de France. Mr Armstrong was not witness to the extraction but he and I had lengthy discussions about it on our training rides during which time he also explained to me the evolution of EPO testing and how transfusions were now necessary due to the inconvenience of the new test. He also divulged to me at that time [Adamastor note: in 2002] that in the first year that the EPO test was used [Adamastor note: 2000?, 2001?] he had been told by Mr Ferrari, who had access to the new test, that he should not use EPO anymore but he did not believe Mr Farrari and continued to use it. He later, while winning the Tour de Swiss, the month before the Tour de France, tested positive for EPO at which point he and Mr Bruyneel flew to the UCI headquarters and made a financial agreement with Mr. Vrubrugen to keep the positive test hidden..."

    Landis doesn't say, that Armstrong tested positive at TdS in 2002, he merely says that in 2002, Armstrong told him the whole story.

    Comments welcome

    Cozy Beehive: Doping
     
  12. adamastor

    adamastor New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2007
    Messages:
    272
    Likes Received:
    0
  13. steve

    steve Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    214
  14. steve

    steve Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    214
    Statement Regarding Investigation Initiated by UCI Through FFC against John Lelangue - Versus
     
  15. steve

    steve Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2001
    Messages:
    5,271
    Likes Received:
    214
    Cycling Doping Inquiry May Broaden

    Federal authorities investigating allegations that Lance Armstrong and other top cyclists engaged in doping are considering whether they can expand the investigation beyond traditional drug distribution charges to include ones involving fraud and conspiracy, according to two people briefed on the investigation.

    ...

    In particular, the authorities want to know whether money from the United States Postal Service, the main sponsor of Armstrong’s team from 1996 to 2004, was used to buy performance-enhancing drugs, one of the people said.

    ...

    Armstrong, the seven-time Tour de France winner, has been dogged by doping allegations throughout his career and continues to deny them. He tested positive for performance-enhancing drugs once, for cortisone at the 1999 Tour, but later produced a doctor’s note saying the drug was needed to combat his saddle sores.


    Cycling Doping Investigation May Broaden to Include Other Charges - NYTimes.com
     
  16. oldbobcat

    oldbobcat Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 31, 2003
    Messages:
    3,233
    Likes Received:
    95
     
  17. slovakguy

    slovakguy Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 17, 2006
    Messages:
    1,898
    Likes Received:
    33
    and the real interesting part of this article is, "Landis offered no documentation, though he says he kept journals that back up his claims."

    kind of reminds me of willy voets' story and the ghosts of festinas past.
     
  18. swampy1970

    swampy1970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 3, 2008
    Messages:
    10,057
    Likes Received:
    185
    But you didn't see Kimmage following Kelly around when he was doing press conferences or shows during his retirement - and this is depsite Kelly having failed dope tests and implicated in the PDM "Intralipid" affair. With regards to Armstrong - Kimmage is almost as bad as LeMond, Lance would be off doing a LiveStrong conference before his last comeback and everyone would be talking cancer and Kimmage shows up and starts talking about US Postal and drugs.

    Everyone was tired? How could that be if they were pulling back time on the climbs? See what happens - I post the facts (times) and you go make more [email protected] up...
     
  19. azdroptop

    azdroptop New Member

    Joined:
    May 25, 2005
    Messages:
    872
    Likes Received:
    0
    Landis looks like a jerk. Didn't regular people send the guy money for his defense fund? I smell a lawsuit. I think we al know the whole sport is juiced, but how Landis is doing this is silly. It would be nice if everything would finally come out and the truth is out. Most telling for me is Vino and Basso coming back from suspension and both are as strong as ever. Nothing has changed.
     
  20. genedan

    genedan New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2010
    Messages:
    339
    Likes Received:
    1
    I doubt Lance will sue Landis, but there is a possibility of a class-action suit against Landis.

    Also, if Landis is lying about the drugs he can also be in a heap of trouble. These investigations cost a lot of money and Landis will be held accountable if his allegations turn out to be false.
     
Loading...
Loading...