Landis Innocent! on CNN and Lance agrees!!!



Deli said:
LOL. You're probably right.

BTW, start getting that house cleaned up. Landis only has 2-1/2 more weeks to confess, and then I own your pad! :D
I'm an impact player.....

I know, I know.... it will happen..... it will happen.... the longer the silence the closer the confession..... :)
 
limerickman said:
Very poor article by the former Amore e Vita DS, Eustice.

He doesn't refer to the 11:1 ratio - just talks about bottles of water and Landis (alleged) power readings.
This is the former DS of the team in cycling, the last team you said that you respect because of their stances in doping, so just worth noting the source might be worth listening to.
 
There is not a single piece of evidence in that article to support his arguments. Nada as Eustice would say.
1) Landis might have averaged 280 watts that day and he may very well have averaged 320 in training? The question is where? Because I suspect that is one thing averaging 280 watts on a cloudy day with 20 degrees and a pan flat course and quite another averaging that over the Joux Plane.
2) 55 bottles of water. Impressive number. And it might be true that they helped keep his core temp stable. How the hell did they affect is T/epiT ratio?
3) Endogenous test was detected. How did it get there? Oh I see. In the absence of any arguments we go back to the:"it's the lab's fault"...
What a piece of ****.
 
limerickman said:
Very poor article by the former Amore e Vita DS, Eustice.

He doesn't refer to the 11:1 ratio - just talks about bottles of water and Landis (alleged) power readings.

Actually, it's a very well-written piece and raises some good questions. Just because Eustice doesn't conform to your biased view of the Landis case doesn't make it a "poor article".

But bobke's interpretation is incorrect, too. Eustice doesn't say Landis was innocent, only that he deserves the opportunity to defend himself.
 
DV1976 said:
1) Landis might have averaged 280 watts that day and he may very well have averaged 320 in training? The question is where? Because I suspect that is one thing averaging 280 watts on a cloudy day with 20 degrees and a pan flat course and quite another averaging that over the Joux Plane.


Check out the power profiles of the top triathletes at Kona last year (temperature into the 40s):

http://www.2peak.com/tools/hawaii3.php?newLanguage=en

The tragedy is we'll never know if these rides are the result of the latest drugs/blood manipulation technique or down to great genetics and an awe inspiring amount of hard work.

:mad:
 
meandmybike said:
Check out the power profiles of the top triathletes at Kona last year (temperature into the 40s):

http://www.2peak.com/tools/hawaii3.php?newLanguage=en
That is interesting. The top triathletes are averaging 60 - 80 watts less than Landis, about 20% less than a top cyclist.

I have always felt that triathlon has had a doping problem since the mid 90s, but the sport has not done much about it. There is not enough money in the sport to do much about it.
 
DV1976 said:
2) 55 bottles of water. Impressive number. And it might be true that they helped keep his core temp stable. How the hell did they affect is T/epiT ratio? .
I thought he was dehydrated. Now he's over hydrated???
He should pick an excuse and go with it.
 
hombredesubaru said:
This is the former DS of the team in cycling, the last team you said that you respect because of their stances in doping, so just worth noting the source might be worth listening to.

He would be worth listening too - but reading his article he tends to ignore the fact that Landis testosterone reading was 10 times higher than normal - and three times higher than the permitted level.

Eustice never refers to this in his article.
 
wineandkeyz said:
Actually, it's a very well-written piece and raises some good questions. Just because Eustice doesn't conform to your biased view of the Landis case doesn't make it a "poor article".

But bobke's interpretation is incorrect, too. Eustice doesn't say Landis was innocent, only that he deserves the opportunity to defend himself.

Landis has had the benefit of two tests on his sample.
And Landis will have the opportunity to appeal his case.
So he's getting ample opportunity to defend himself.

As regards the article - I don't see how anyone can claim Landis is innocent.
Sorry I'll rephrase that : Eustice can claim that Landis is innocent by ignoring the fact that landis had a 1:11 testosterone reading.

Poor article.
 
limerickman said:
Landis has had the benefit of two tests on his sample.
And Landis will have the opportunity to appeal his case.
So he's getting ample opportunity to defend himself.

As regards the article - I don't see how anyone can claim Landis is innocent.
Sorry I'll rephrase that : Eustice can claim that Landis is innocent by ignoring the fact that landis had a 1:11 testosterone reading.

Poor article.

I do think it's worth asking how this high ratio shows up one day and not the next or the prior - certainly that will be part of Landis's defense.

On one hand, such a swing over a few days' time is highly improbable.
On the other hand low C13 ratios from endogenous testosteone are highly improbable.

On one hand they have enough to bust Floyd because the rules are clear.
On the other hand there are questions about the testing significant enough to feel unsatisfied with the results.
 
DiabloScott said:
I do think it's worth asking how this high ratio shows up one day and not the next or the prior - certainly that will be part of Landis's defense.

On one hand, such a swing over a few days' time is highly improbable.
On the other hand low C13 ratios from endogenous testosteone are highly improbable.

On one hand they have enough to bust Floyd because the rules are clear.
On the other hand there are questions about the testing significant enough to feel unsatisfied with the results.
Agreed, people familiar with the test say it is near impossible to have THAT much testosterone in the system to make your urine, not blood, levels 11/1 and be gone the next day or not be there the day before.
We'll see.
 
bobke said:
Agreed, people familiar with the test say it is near impossible to have THAT much testosterone in the system to make your urine, not blood, levels 11/1 and be gone the next day or not be there the day before.
We'll see.
The theory that Landis had high testosterone levels throughout the the entire TDF is completely possible.
All other days it was masked by epitestosterone to balance the ratio.
One missed dose of epitestosterone, and he is picked up on an elevated t/e ratio.
The only mystery is why the dose of epi was missed - carelessness or stupidity.
 
cynic said:
The theory that Landis had high testosterone levels throughout the the entire TDF is completely possible.
All other days it was masked by epitestosterone to balance the ratio.
One missed dose of epitestosterone, and he is picked up on an elevated t/e ratio.
The only mystery is why the dose of epi was missed - carelessness or stupidity.

They don't do the exogenous test unless the ratio is off. Landis ought to have the right to insist his B samples from the other days get tested for exogenous but I don't think he does.
 
DiabloScott said:
Landis ought to have the right to insist his B samples from the other days get tested for exogenous but I don't think he does.
I am pretty sure that Floyd would NOT want that done on all of his other samples as that would really screw his defence.
 
limerickman said:
Landis has had the benefit of two tests on his sample.
And Landis will have the opportunity to appeal his case.
So he's getting ample opportunity to defend himself.

As regards the article - I don't see how anyone can claim Landis is innocent.
Sorry I'll rephrase that : Eustice can claim that Landis is innocent by ignoring the fact that landis had a 1:11 testosterone reading.

Poor article.

The T/E ratio was allegedly 11:1, not 1:11.

Poor post.
 
patch70 said:
I am pretty sure that Floyd would NOT want that done on all of his other samples as that would really screw his defence.
He has already asked for all his urines from other races to be tested to compare. Just n case you havent been able to see Larry King Live in wonderful Australia, mate.
 
DiabloScott said:
They don't do the exogenous test unless the ratio is off. Landis ought to have the right to insist his B samples from the other days get tested for exogenous but I don't think he does.
It would be interesting to know whether he does have that right.
There is a danger though.
If Landis asks for further testing of other samples for the presence of synthetics and positives are found, he is obviously completely sunk.
To not ask for further testing might be a smarter play of the odds.
 
bobke said:
He has already asked for all his urines from other races to be tested to compare. Just n case you havent been able to see Larry King Live in wonderful Australia, mate.
When was it? Is it yet worthwhile?
At this time (LKL), he would hope his ratio T:E was good for other days. Now they aren't searching a bad T:E but exogenus Testosterone too. So, if they test urines from other TDF days, in all cases (good or bad ratio T:E), they must search exogenus T. too.
If some exogenus T can be cleared rapidly by body or can be masked, those tests would be irrelevant.
 

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