landrider



Originally posted by David Reuteler
Doug Huffman <[email protected]> wrote:
> "Filmboard" <[email protected]> wrote in
> message
> news:p[email protected]...
> ||
> | Forum leader out there. . . I promise I'll stop with the
> | long posts.
>
> "Forum leader"? You misunderstand - a lot.

no, no. that would be me. the man behind the curtain.

now be nice or i'll pull your access.
--
david reuteler [email protected]
If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that she posted from [email protected]. Perhaps thats why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not have even known that she was posting outside the forum.

Dan.
 
BanditManDan <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that she
> posted from [email protected]. Perhaps thats
> why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not have even
> known that she was posting outside the forum.

question me again and i'll revoke your permission to post.
--
david reuteler [email protected]
 
On 19 May 2004 18:56:43 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]> wrote:

>BanditManDan <[email protected]> wrote:
>> If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that
>> she posted from [email protected]. Perhaps
>> thats why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not
>> have even known that she was posting outside the forum.
>
>question me again and i'll revoke your permission to post.
>--
>david reuteler [email protected]

Actually, you should threaten to revoke your own permission
to post, b/c think of the resulting dearth of wit and
sagacity around here. ;-p

-B
 
Originally posted by David Reuteler
BanditManDan <[email protected]> wrote:
> If you guys paid attention you might have noticed that she
> posted from [email protected]. Perhaps thats
> why she mentioned the forum leader, she may not have even
> known that she was posting outside the forum.

question me again and i'll revoke your permission to post.
--
david reuteler [email protected]

Opps, I humbly appologize.
 
Badger_South <[email protected]> wrote:
> Actually, you should threaten to revoke your own
> permission to post, b/c think of the resulting dearth of
> wit and sagacity around here. ;-p

"Dead! And so great an artist!" -- Nero
--
david reuteler [email protected]
 
On 19 May 2004 19:33:22 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]> wrote:

>Badger_South <[email protected]> wrote:
>> Actually, you should threaten to revoke your own
>> permission to post, b/c think of the resulting dearth of
>> wit and sagacity around here. ;-p
>
>"Dead! And so great an artist!" -- Nero

Perhaps you could appeal to their sympathy by dressing in
black and appearing humble, they'd let you live? ;-D

-B
 
On 19 May 2004 17:10:13 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Doug Huffman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Filmboard" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message
>> | Forum leader out there. . . I promise I'll stop with
>> | the long posts.
>> "Forum leader"? You misunderstand - a lot.
>
>no, no. that would be me. the man behind the curtain. now
>be nice or i'll pull your access.

Why would you want to pool my axes?
--
Rick Onanian
 
On 19 May 2004 17:10:13 GMT, David Reuteler <[email protected]>
wrote:
>Doug Huffman <[email protected]> wrote:
>> "Filmboard" <[email protected]> wrote in
>> message
>> | Forum leader out there. . . I promise I'll stop with
>> | the long posts.
>> "Forum leader"? You misunderstand - a lot.
>
>no, no. that would be me. the man behind the curtain. now
>be nice or i'll pull your access.

Why would you want to pool my axes?
--
Rick Onanian
 
I'm not fearful of being roasted and eaten, or feeling silly. What I fear is that I'm not likely to get an intelligent answer, unfettered by bias and mean-spiritedness.
 
Filmboard <[email protected]> wrote:
> I'm not fearful of being roasted and eaten, or feeling
> silly. What I fear is that I'm not likely to get an
> intelligent answer, unfettered by bias and mean-
> spiritedness.

I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you see
on TV. Do you see one of those infomercial's for a set of
knives and think "Wow, this knife with a cheap looking
plastic handle just sliced through concrete yet still cut
through a tomatoe must have a super strong alloy that no
other knife in the manufacturer world has discovered, and
all for 4 easy payments of 19.95"?

If a infomercial product really was so wonderful,
revolutionary, and economical why isn't it on the store
shelves selling millions? I would say if a infomercial
product was in a store, it would not succeed because
consumers would be able to see the product up close and find
it is of low quality, overpriced, of dubious value, and
worse yet for the manufacturer easily returnable for a full
refund. Bad products are sold on infomercials for a reason.

This website may be of help for you.

http://www.infomercialscams.com/

--
---
Eric Yagerlener remove "usenet" from email address to reply
 
On 20 May 2004 12:53:24 -0400, [email protected] wrote:
>If a infomercial product really was so wonderful,
>revolutionary, and economical why isn't it on the store
>shelves selling millions? I would say

Not everybody has access to the same marketing
resources. That doesn't excuse the quality of most such
products, though...

>if a infomercial product was in a store, it would not
>succeed because consumers would be able to see the product
>up close and find it is of low quality, overpriced, of
>dubious value, and worse yet for the manufacturer easily
>returnable for a full refund. Bad products are sold on
>infomercials for a reason.

Infomercial products do end up on store shelves, after the
infomercial gets tired. Go to Wal Mart (especially the
cooking appliance aisle) and note the "As Seen On TV"
labels. People buy the stuff anyway; they sell a lot cheaper
on store shelves, and people figure it's worth a try for
that price, and they can try it today anyway...
--
Rick Onanian
 
> I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you see on TV.

Okay, here's the thing. I guess this shows how we all make assumptions, while the reality may be totally different. For example I thought I was posting in a controlled forum on cyclingforums.com, but I see that I've been posting through their Bike Café forum into a usenet group. Now, another assumption has been made that I saw an infomercial and dialed up some 800 number, I presume, credit card in hand. Nope, I've never done that. I don't know what infomercial you're talking about.

One day I did an Internet search on something (can't remember what right now, but not bicycles), and I think it took me to some kind of World Riders site about a CA couple on a world bicycle trek. Somewhere in there I saw something about a Landrider, and a few days later I remembered the name and did a search, and found their web site. I'd already had a real waste of money when I bought the only adult size bicydle at the local Sears store, so I eventually placed an online order.

Now I'd be the last person to say that I've only made smart purchases in my life. I can immediately think of about $30-40K spent on two automobiles that were a disgrace to powered locomotion. I once lost money on some land. I took a real beating on some Ashton-Tate stock one year. So, if it turns out I've made a horrible mistake here, so be it. You know what, I can afford the $400 it cost me, and I have no way of measuring just what I should get out of a bicycle per dollar. If I learn about something better by participating in this forum. Great. But on the other hand, I've read comments about the Landrider that so far, in my direct experience, just aren't so. There are people who've said that you're in real trouble if you stop fast, because you'll be in a high gear, or who are afraid to think what will happen if the shift takes place while standing on the pedal. Now maybe it's because I'm a different sort of cycler than the rest of this crowd, but the point I started to make when I first chimed in, is that there seems to be a lot of animosity without direct knowledge about this bicycle. None of those things have yet happened to me. I ride several miles every morning, I come back and blow off the dust with an air compressor, wipe it down with a soft cloth, apply some light oil, and the thing keeps working; and I don't feel lousy like I did with the other bicycle.

At what point can you stop worrying about whether I or someone else was gullible, or could have gotten something better for less from the non-existent bike shop in my community? At what point can people on this and other groups stop their vitriolic attack on someone who asks about auto shifting, treating them like they must be pathetic brain-dead misfits, and rather explain logically to those who ask, what a better alternative might be and why? I've had plenty of stick shift autos (a couple of Fiat Spyders stick in my mind). Four or Five on the floor is not something to fear either, but I bet a bunch of you, like myself, have had some cars with auto transmissions.

It was years ago that it became second nature to me to set the lens aperture and shutter speed on a camera without using a meter and get a good shot in most lighting conditions, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying using an automatic camera. Because I do professional work, I insist that my automatic has manual controls as well, and a good eyepiece for focusing. But if you want to take photos while you bicycle with some little tyke of a camera that you have to hold at arms length so you can try to frame the shot on a poorly lit LCD screen; I'm confident you're getting a decent shot with your fully automatic that satisfies you, even if I could never use one of those for my own work, so I think it's okay for you to use a Sony with a floppy disk in it, barrel distortion in the lens and a center-bright flash with rapid edge fall-off. Because your use is different than mine. My cycling needs and probably most of the others inquiring about Landriders is different than yours.

"A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it
will annoy enough people to make it worth the effort." -- Albright
 
Filmboard wrote:
>> I'm curious on how you feel about other infomercials you
>> see on TV.
>
> Okay, here's the thing. I guess this shows how we all make
> assumptions, while the reality may be totally different.
> For example I thought I was posting in a controlled forum
> on cyclingforums.com, but I see that I've been posting
> through their Bike Café forum into a usenet group. Now,
> another assumption has been made that I saw an infomercial
> and dialed up some 800 number, I presume, credit card in
> hand. Nope, I've never done that. I don't know what
> infomercial you're talking about.
>
> One day I did an Internet search on something (can't
> remember what right now, but not bicycles), and I think it
> took me to some kind of World Riders site about a CA
> couple on a world bicycle trek. Somewhere in there I saw
> something about a Landrider, and a few days later I
> remembered the name and did a search, and found their web
> site. I'd already had a real waste of money when I bought
> the only adult size bicydle at the local Sears store, so I
> eventually placed an online order.
>
> Now I'd be the last person to say that I've only made
> smart purchases in my life. I can immediately think of
> about $30-40K spent on two automobiles that were a
> disgrace to powered locomotion. I once lost money on some
> land. I took a real beating on some Ashton-Tate stock one
> year. So, if it turns out I've made a horrible mistake
> here, so be it. You know what, I can afford the $400 it
> cost me, and I have no way of measuring just what I should
> get out of a bicycle per dollar. If I learn about
> something better by participating in this forum. Great.
> But on the other hand, I've read comments about the
> Landrider that so far, in my direct experience, just
> aren't so. There are people who've said that you're in
> real trouble if you stop fast, because you'll be in a high
> gear, or who are afraid to think what will happen if the
> shift takes place while standing on the pedal. Now maybe
> it's because I'm a different sort of cycler than the rest
> of this crowd, but the point I started to make when I
> first chimed in, is that there seems to be a lot of
> animosity without direct knowledge about this bicycle.
> None of those things have yet happened to me. I ride
> several miles every morning, I come back and blow off the
> dust with an air compressor, wipe it down with a soft
> cloth, apply some light oil, and the thing keeps working;
> and I don't feel lousy like I did with the other bicycle.
>
> At what point can you stop worrying about whether I or
> someone else was gullible, or could have gotten something
> better for less from the non- existent bike shop in my
> community? At what point can people on this and other
> groups stop their vitriolic attack on someone who asks
> about auto shifting, treating them like they must be
> pathetic brain-dead misfits, and rather explain logically
> to those who ask, what a better alternative might be and
> why? I've had plenty of stick shift autos (a couple of
> Fiat Spyders stick in my mind). Four or Five on the floor
> is not something to fear either, but I bet a bunch of you,
> like myself, have had some cars with auto transmissions.
>
> It was years ago that it became second nature to me to set
> the lens aperture and shutter speed on a camera without
> using a meter and get a good shot in most lighting
> conditions, but that doesn't keep me from enjoying using
> an automatic camera. Because I do professional work, I
> insist that my automatic has manual controls as well, and
> a good eyepiece for focusing. But if you want to take
> photos while you bicycle with some little tyke of a camera
> that you have to hold at arms length so you can try to
> frame the shot on a poorly lit LCD screen; I'm confident
> you're getting a decent shot with your fully automatic
> that satisfies you, even if I could never use one of those
> for my own work, so I think it's okay for you to use a
> Sony with a floppy disk in it, barrel distortion in the
> lens and a center-bright flash with rapid edge fall-off.
> Because your use is different than mine. My cycling needs
> and probably most of the others inquiring about Landriders
> is different than yours.

This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment
has no place in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )

Bill "get emotional or get out" S.
 
This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed comment
has no place in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )

Bill "get emotional or get out" S. [/B]

Okay, so here's another thing. . .
All you people with your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't measure up to my standard is that while you're holding your shutter button down half way waiting for all the automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a concern to me. There will be others down the road that are intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it may be just the right thing to get them out on the road, to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain elitists. F.
 
Filmboard wrote:
> wrote:
> > This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed
> > comment has
> no place > in this forum. TYVM. (;-) )
> > Bill "get emotional or get out" S.
>
>
>
> Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
> your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
> your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
> measure up to my standard is that while you're holding
> your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
> automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure
> and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed
> candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition
> of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large
> percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
> message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure
> are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe
> that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea
> of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same
> token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
> bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a
> concern to me. There will be others down the road that are
> intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it
> may be just the right thing to get them out on the road,
> to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
> eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike
> paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain
> elitists. F.

Not knowing when to shut up. NOW you're getting the
hang of this!

Bill "non-attribution quoting style notwithstanding" S.
 
Originally posted by S O R N I

Not knowing when to shut up. NOW you're getting the
hang of this!

Bill "non-attribution quoting style notwithstanding" S.
Touché.
 
"Filmboard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
> your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
> your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
> measure up to my standard is that while you're holding
> your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
> automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure
> and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed
> candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition
> of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large
> percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
> message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure
> are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe
> that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea
> of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same
> token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
> bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a
> concern to me. There will be others down the road that are
> intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it
> may be just the right thing to get them out on the road,
> to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
> eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike
> paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain
> elitists. F.

It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial that touted automatic cameras. That
said that people don't take pictures because focusing is too
hard, because the concepts of aperture and shutter speed are
beyond their understanding. That went on for an hour
explaining why traditional cameras are no good, and
automatic cameras are much better in every way.

PLUS -- and here's the kicker -- people are always running
out of film.

So they offer you a fixed-focus, plastic-lens point-and-
shoot camera with the **revolutionary** **new** **feature**
that is can load two rolls of film at the same time!

All for only $199.95!

That's how we feel about the Landrider. It's everything they
*don't* tell you about. The cheap, heavy frame. The lack of
a variety of frame sizes, making perfect fit a **** shoot.
The generally low-end complement of parts and fittings. The
fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for
less money at a local bike shop.

The extra-special gizmo that makes the Landrider so special
solves a problem that's non-existent for most people once
they've spent an hour on a bike. If ease of shifting is
really an issue, buying a quality bike using one of
Shimano's Nexus series of internally-geared hubs, that can
be shifted while stationary and serviced at any bike shop,
is a much better solution.

The price you pay for a Landrider pays for marketing and, it
seems likely, immense markups on each unit sold. This bike,
if made by Huffy and sold at WalMart, would retail for $129.

RichC
 
"Filmboard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...

> Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
> your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
> your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
> measure up to my standard is that while you're holding
> your shutter button down half way waiting for all the
> automatic mechanisms to do their thing (adjust exposure
> and focus), the good shot has long passed. The relaxed
> candid look in your friends' faces, the great composition
> of an action shot. . . all gone. But, you and a large
> percentage of the rest of the world have sent a clear
> message to camera manufacturers that focusing and exposure
> are way beyond your abilities. I don't happen to believe
> that; I just think for some good reason, you like the idea
> of pointing and shooting, keeping it simple. By the same
> token, I liked the idea of an automatic shift on a
> bicycle, even tho you think shifting should not be a
> concern to me. There will be others down the road that are
> intrigued by it too. It's not for you, but you know, it
> may be just the right thing to get them out on the road,
> to help produce more people-powered-vehicles, to
> eventually get cities and counties to make more safe bike
> paths. You won't get that to happen if you try to remain
> elitists. F.

It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial that touted automatic cameras. That
said that people don't take pictures because focusing is too
hard, because the concepts of aperture and shutter speed are
beyond their understanding. That went on for an hour
explaining why traditional cameras are no good, and
automatic cameras are much better in every way.

PLUS -- and here's the kicker -- people are always running
out of film.

So they offer you a fixed-focus, plastic-lens point-and-
shoot camera with the **revolutionary** **new** **feature**
that is can load two rolls of film at the same time!

All for only $199.95!

That's how we feel about the Landrider. It's everything they
*don't* tell you about. The cheap, heavy frame. The lack of
a variety of frame sizes, making perfect fit a **** shoot.
The generally low-end complement of parts and fittings. The
fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for
less money at a local bike shop.

The extra-special gizmo that makes the Landrider so special
solves a problem that's non-existent for most people once
they've spent an hour on a bike. If ease of shifting is
really an issue, buying a quality bike using one of
Shimano's Nexus series of internally-geared hubs, that can
be shifted while stationary and serviced at any bike shop,
is a much better solution.

The price you pay for a Landrider pays for marketing and, it
seems likely, immense markups on each unit sold. This bike,
if made by Huffy and sold at WalMart, would retail for $129.

RichC
 
Originally posted by Rich Clark
It's an apt analogy, but you've applied it backwards.

Imagine an infomercial . . . . The lack of a variety of frame sizes, making perfect fit a **** shoot. . . The fact that a bike that's better in every way can be had for less money at a local bike shop.
Here's where you've got the upper hand on me, I guess. I still have no knowledge of an infomercial. But it's becoming clear that's what has most of you so bent out of shape. As for lack of frame sizes, I had my choice of 12" 14" 15" 17" 18" 19.5" and 22" when I placed my online order (some of those are positioned as women's and some as men's); how many more would the LBS provide me? I don't know. And I've made it abundantly clear in the previous postings, there is no LBS in my community, and if I have to travel a hundred miles it's no longer a "L"BS, in my opinion. I don't expect you to use one of these bikes, or even recommend it; but it would be nice if it wasn't totally misrepresented here. But the public is misrepresented about digital cameras every day (perhaps not in an infomercial). Ooo, so you got a 5 megapixel camera; if its acquisition is on a single chip smaller than half of your little pinkie fingernail, you have virtually no correct color and a very sharp tonal curve in your photos, and you have a camera that is grossly overpriced for what it delivers. And if it's fully automatic, it likely stops the lens down first and then adjusts to the light with the shutter speed next, so that on a cloudy day or in the shade when you hold it out in front of you at arms length because they neglected to insert a $2 eyepiece, you just can't get as sharp a photo as you should simply because you can't hold it steady out there. If you by chance have one of these, you've been misled and are just as gullible; only an entire industry has gulled you, with more finesse than in this infomercial you refer to.
 
"Filmboard" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> wrote:
> > This calm, measured, and well thought out/expressed
> > comment has no
place
> > in this forum. TYVM. (;-) ) Bill "get emotional or get
> > out" S.
>
> Okay, so here's another thing. . . All you people with
> your automatic cameras (I know you have them), even though
> your pix satisfy your need, the reason they usually won't
> measure up to my standard is that while

Be fair with the analogies. What is the ***same-priced***
alternative that is vastly superior to my point-and-shoot.

Matthew