Lane seeding



M

Micheal Artinda

Guest
I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
should be used for fastest to slowest?

Does it realy matter what lane you are in?
 
M

M. W. Smith

Guest
On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 00:19:02 -0500, Micheal Artindale
<[email protected]> wrote:

> I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
> should be used for fastest to slowest?
>
> Does it realy matter what lane you are in?

Nowadays, I think it makes no difference in terms of turbulence, given the improvements in laneline
and gutter technology. The outer lanes should have lanelines on both sides. What is important is to
be able to see the other swimmers, so being in the middle is better from that point of view.

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.
 
D

Diablo

Guest
are you asking the lane assignments according to seed for top 8? if so, 1-8th is lnes
4,5,3,6,2,7,1,8 respectively in an 8 lane pool.

as for does it make a difference, yes, it makes a huge difference. while some technology these days
combats it, there is still an appreciable effect.

case in point, had a meet at UIC in Chicago last weekend, (which is the venue for the Speedo
Sectional - Central meet)...all of my swimmers picked up time in lane 8 and 1 (especially 8 with
that damn stupid bulkhead), while they held their times in other lanes. only newer pools are really
equipped to handle wash, and even they don't do a perfect job. if you'sa in an outside, lane, you'sa
might have some trouble.

Steve

"Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
> should be used for fastest to slowest?
>
> Does it realy matter what lane you are in?
 
D

de Valois

Guest
diablo left this mess on Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:08:26 -0600 for The Way to clean
up:
>
>
>are you asking the lane assignments according to seed for top 8? if so, 1-8th is lnes
>4,5,3,6,2,7,1,8 respectively in an 8 lane pool.
>
>as for does it make a difference, yes, it makes a huge difference. while some technology these days
>combats it, there is still an appreciable effect.
>
>case in point, had a meet at UIC in Chicago last weekend, (which is the venue for the Speedo
>Sectional - Central meet)...all of my swimmers picked up time in lane 8 and 1 (especially 8 with
>that damn stupid bulkhead), while they held their times in other lanes. only newer pools are really
>equipped to handle wash, and even they don't do a perfect job. if you'sa in an outside, lane,
>you'sa might have some trouble.
>

Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology. What's the incentive in
swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real physical advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other than
sighting other swimmers)? You *ought* to pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
 
M

M. W. Smith

Guest
On 22 Feb 2004 15:00:32 -0800, de Valois <[email protected]>
wrote:

> diablo left this mess on Sun, 22 Feb 2004 09:08:26 -0600 for The Way to clean up:
>>
>>
>> are you asking the lane assignments according to seed for top 8? if so, 1-8th is lnes
>> 4,5,3,6,2,7,1,8 respectively in an 8 lane pool.
>>
>> as for does it make a difference, yes, it makes a huge difference. while some technology these
>> days combats it, there is still an appreciable effect.
>>
>> case in point, had a meet at UIC in Chicago last weekend, (which is the venue for the Speedo
>> Sectional - Central meet)...all of my swimmers picked up time in lane 8 and 1 (especially 8 with
>> that damn stupid bulkhead), while they held their times in other lanes. only newer pools are
>> really equipped to handle wash, and even they don't do a perfect job. if you'sa in an outside,
>> lane, you'sa might have some trouble.
>>
>
> Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology. What's the incentive in
> swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real physical advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other
> than sighting other swimmers)? You *ought* to pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

The incentive is to get into the finals.

martin

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.
 
A

Al

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says... [...]
> Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology. What's the incentive in
> swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real physical advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other
> than sighting other swimmers)? You *ought* to pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.

I think that would amount to penalizing someone for what is a more intelligent strategy - i.e., do
only as much as it takes to get into finals so you've got more left for a maximum effort. Their
penalty will be not making finals if they try to shave that margin too close.

From a spectator point of view, I've always loved those races where the person in lane 1 or 8 swims
away with the race.

- Al
 
D

Diablo

Guest
I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of swimming just enough to get back at
night - and those that do that are probably fast enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4
lanes anyway.

like anything its a gamble however.

"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says... [...]
> > Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology.
What's
> > the incentive in swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real
physical
> > advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other than sighting other swimmers)? You
*ought* to
> > pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.
>
> I think that would amount to penalizing someone for what is a more intelligent strategy - i.e., do
> only as much as it takes to get into finals so you've got more left for a maximum effort. Their
> penalty will be not making finals if they try to shave that margin too close.
>
> From a spectator point of view, I've always loved those races where the person in lane 1 or 8
> swims away with the race.
>
> - Al
 
A

Al

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of swimming just enough to get back
> at night - and those that do that are probably fast enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4
> lanes anyway.
>
> like anything its a gamble however.

For major meets that's true, but on occasion it can be a doable (although not necessarily
recommended) thing - admittedly less so these days with the time disparity between the top finishers
getting smaller and smaller. But way back when it was fun to try to "game" the system - particularly
at poorly organized meets with minimal recovery time between prelims and finals. Certainly not a
strategy for the feint of heart, though :)

- Al
 
D

Diablo

Guest
sucks to be seeded first in the psyche sheet, then swim yourself into the consolation
final...seen it happen once or twice. saw a guy seeded first in the 100 by over a second end up
in the banana heat...

"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of
swimming
> > just enough to get back at night - and those that do that are probably
fast
> > enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4 lanes anyway.
> >
> > like anything its a gamble however.
>
> For major meets that's true, but on occasion it can be a doable (although not necessarily
> recommended) thing - admittedly less so these days with the time disparity between the top
> finishers getting smaller and smaller. But way back when it was fun to try to "game" the system -
> particularly at poorly organized meets with minimal recovery time between prelims and finals.
> Certainly not a strategy for the feint of heart, though :)
>
> - Al
 
D

DaKitty

Guest
"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> > I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of
swimming
> > just enough to get back at night - and those that do that are probably
fast
> > enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4 lanes anyway.
> >
> > like anything its a gamble however.
>
> For major meets that's true, but on occasion it can be a doable (although not necessarily
> recommended) thing - admittedly less so these days with the time disparity between the top
> finishers getting smaller and smaller. But way back when it was fun to try to "game" the system -
> particularly at poorly organized meets with minimal recovery time between prelims and finals.
> Certainly not a strategy for the feint of heart, though :)
>
> - Al

Then there are multiple heats, so many people really get to swim in lanes 3 and 4. Just very few get
to swim in the lane 4 in a final heat of the event.
 
A

Al

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> sucks to be seeded first in the psyche sheet, then swim yourself into the consolation
> final...seen it happen once or twice. saw a guy seeded first in the 100 by over a second end up
> in the banana heat...

Yeah, that's a pretty gnarly outcome. What also sucks is to be one of those early heat, lane 8 guys
that breaks the world record in prelims at olympic trials, then doesn't make the team in finals
(although the world record remains intact.) (Kurt Krumpholtz, 1972 - I flew back on the same plane
as him to Santa Clara following the trials in Chicago... a flight full of bay area swimmers that
didn't make the team... man, that was quiet!)

- Al
 
T

Tbone

Guest
depends if the heat is "circle seeded" or not

"Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
news:[email protected]...
> I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8 that
> should be used for fastest to slowest?
>
> Does it realy matter what lane you are in?
 
M

M. W. Smith

Guest
On Tue, 24 Feb 2004 03:53:16 GMT, Mike Edey <[email protected]> wrote:

> Nope - the lane order still holds, it's just that everybody from one heat won't nec be seeded
> faster then everybody from another. Whithin each heat the lane order is unchanged.

Masters meets in Adelaide just order all the entires by entry time, slowest to fastest, and then
deal them out eight at a time, slowest to fastest, men and women in the same event. I like that way
because then you usually get to race against people who are about your speed but a little faster.
But that's masters.

martin

> --Mike
>
> On Mon, 23 Feb 2004 20:56:44 -0500, tbone wrote:
>
>> depends if the heat is "circle seeded" or not
>>
>>
>> "Micheal Artindale" <[email protected]> wrote in message
>> news:[email protected]...
>>> I know lane 4 is suposeded to be fore the fastest swimmer. what is the order from lane 4 to 8
>>> that should be used for fastest to slowest?
>>>
>>> Does it realy matter what lane you are in?
>>>
>>>
>>>

--
If you are a US citizen, please use your constitutional right to vote, because we badly need a new
president.
 
D

de Valois

Guest
In the highest levels of competition, this is true, but for the vast majority of races, I think
there's quite a bit of "room for error", especially if you're in heat 8 of an 8-heat qualifier and
you already know whose on the bubble.

Again, a narrow case, but any advantage like that can be huge.

diablo left this mess on Mon, 23 Feb 2004 12:39:41 -0600 for The Way to clean up:
>
>I think there are very few swimmers who can afford the luxury of swimming just enough to get back
>at night - and those that do that are probably fast enough to guarantee their spot in the middle 4
>lanes anyway.
>
>like anything its a gamble however.
>
>"Al" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:[email protected]...
>> In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says... [...]
>> > Personally, I've always questioned this development in pool technology.
>What's
>> > the incentive in swimming faster qualifying times if there's no real
>physical
>> > advantage in lanes 3,4, & 5 (other than sighting other swimmers)? You
>*ought* to
>> > pay a price to be stuck in 1&8.
>>
>> I think that would amount to penalizing someone for what is a more intelligent strategy - i.e.,
>> do only as much as it takes to get into finals so you've got more left for a maximum effort.
>> Their penalty will be not making finals if they try to shave that margin too close.
>>
>> From a spectator point of view, I've always loved those races where the person in lane 1 or 8
>> swims away with the race.
>>
>> - Al
>
>

Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif
 
A

Al

Guest
In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
> In the highest levels of competition, this is true, but for the vast majority of races, I think
> there's quite a bit of "room for error", especially if you're in heat 8 of an 8-heat qualifier and
> you already know whose on the bubble.
>
> Again, a narrow case, but any advantage like that can be huge.

I tended to find myself, for whatever reason, in the final heat lots of times towards the middle
(although almost never in the middle at a big meet :)... so in terms of seeding I wasn't usually so
far out of the money that I couldn't take advantage of mistakes/bad swims on the part of higher
seeded people in earlier heats. And if I happened to have a handle on how fast the guy in lane 4 was
likely to swim, I could sometimes get away with gambling on a 80 - 90% effort to have a little
something left over for finals - particularly if I was in a position to drag off of lane 4.

This was usually 200 fly for me - but the 100 was too much of a thrash for me to take chances
like that.

- Al
 
D

de Valois

Guest
Al left this mess on Tue, 24 Feb 2004 10:20:13 -0600 for The Way to clean up:
>
>In article <[email protected]>, [email protected] says...
>>In the highest levels of competition, this is true, but for the vast majority of races, I think
>>there's quite a bit of "room for error", especially if you're in heat 8 of an 8-heat qualifier and
>>you already know whose on the bubble.
>>
>> Again, a narrow case, but any advantage like that can be huge.
>
>I tended to find myself, for whatever reason, in the final heat lots of times towards the middle
>(although almost never in the middle at a big meet :)... so in terms of seeding I wasn't usually
>so far out of the money that I couldn't take advantage of mistakes/bad swims on the part of higher
>seeded people in earlier heats. And if I happened to have a handle on how fast the guy in lane 4
>was likely to swim, I could sometimes get away with gambling on a 80 - 90% effort to have a little
>something left over for finals - particularly if I was in a position to drag off of lane 4.
>
>This was usually 200 fly for me - but the 100 was too much of a thrash for me to take chances
>like that.
>

I suspect this strategy works better (and might even be more effective) for longer races, true.

Tao te Carl "It takes a village to have an idiot." - Carl (c) 2003

(Kudos to Cap'n Jim Wyatt for this link) BEFORE you ask a dumb-ass question
here...http://www.speakeasy.org/~neilco/bart.gif