Latest LA video

Discussion in 'Road Cycling' started by Chris, May 8, 2004.

  1. Chris

    Chris Guest

    I assume this is the latest video on LA and his Tour efforts
    that is being broadcast just prior to the noon bradcast of
    the Giro. So far, they show him in the wind tunnel with all
    kinds of feedback for him to look at as he pedals and
    breathes. The interesting thing to me is that Lance is
    talking as if he has not used this kind of feedback before.
    That leaves me wondering just how much he could see during
    the testing in past wind tunnel efforts. Anyhow, the
    equipment they show him using will even allow him to
    optimize his breathing rhythm (or at least have a better
    idea of the actual cost of all of his position and clothing
    changes inclusiding his breathing).

    Like I said, I had assumed he had already done this in the
    past and I am not positive but this video now leads me to
    believe this is new to him. Crap, this means he still has
    a shot at improving at the ITT whereas Ullrich would be
    using this same equipment (if at all) to see how much his
    gut is slowing him down. This sucks. I love technology in
    bike racing but why is Lance the only guy that seems to
    have the budget to use these sessions and have all of this
    special equipment (custom skinsuits, bars, helmets, wheels
    etc.). BTW, I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet.
    Any word on that?
     
    Tags:


  2. Randy Walton

    Randy Walton Guest

    Good point. I was wondering the same because I got the same
    impression, that this was something new to him. Certainly
    his ITT performance in the Tour de Georgia represented good
    form but it will be interesting to see if it's truly
    material against the stronger European teams. Although the
    US competition did show itself quite strong.

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I assume this is the latest video on LA and his Tour
    > efforts that is being broadcast just prior to the noon
    > bradcast of the Giro. So far, they show
    him
    > in the wind tunnel with all kinds of feedback for him to
    > look at as he pedals and breathes. The interesting thing
    > to me is that Lance is talking
    as
    > if he has not used this kind of feedback before. That
    > leaves me wondering just how much he could see during the
    > testing in past wind tunnel efforts. Anyhow, the equipment
    > they show him using will even allow him to optimize his
    > breathing rhythm (or at least have a better idea of the
    > actual cost of all of his position and clothing changes
    > inclusiding his breathing).
    >
    > Like I said, I had assumed he had already done this in the
    > past and I am
    not
    > positive but this video now leads me to believe this is
    > new to him. Crap, this means he still has a shot at
    > improving at the ITT whereas Ullrich
    would
    > be using this same equipment (if at all) to see how much
    > his gut is
    slowing
    > him down. This sucks. I love technology in bike racing but
    > why is Lance
    the
    > only guy that seems to have the budget to use these
    > sessions and have all
    of
    > this special equipment (custom skinsuits, bars, helmets,
    > wheels etc.).
    BTW,
    > I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet. Any word
    > on that?
     
  3. Warren

    Warren Guest

    In article <[email protected]>, Chris
    <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I assume this is the latest video on LA and his Tour
    > efforts that is being broadcast just prior to the noon
    > bradcast of the Giro. So far, they show him in the wind
    > tunnel with all kinds of feedback for him to look at as he
    > pedals and breathes. The interesting thing to me is that
    > Lance is talking as if he has not used this kind of
    > feedback before.

    He has, or at least nearly all of it.

    > I love technology in bike racing but why is Lance the only
    > guy that seems to have the budget to use these sessions
    > and have all of this special equipment (custom skinsuits,
    > bars, helmets, wheels etc.).

    What gives you that impression?

    > I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet. Any word
    > on that?

    It was mentioned in the first episode and it's probably the
    one he's using for testing now.

    -WG
     
  4. Amit

    Amit Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<[email protected]>...

    > Like I said, I had assumed he had already done this in the
    > past and I am not positive but this video now leads me to
    > believe this is new to him. Crap, this means he still has
    > a shot at improving at the ITT whereas Ullrich would be
    > using this same equipment (if at all) to see how much his
    > gut is slowing him down. This sucks. I love technology in
    > bike racing but why is Lance the only guy that seems to
    > have the budget to use these sessions and have all of this
    > special equipment (custom skinsuits, bars, helmets, wheels
    > etc.). BTW, I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet.
    > Any word on that?

    Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of
    your ass ?

    Will it ever occur to you that others do this kind of work
    too, except it's not televised ?

    Are you a specialist in video assisted clairvoyance ? Was
    Kunich your teacher ?
     
  5. On 8 May 2004 14:11:51 -0700, Amit wrote:
    >Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of your
    >ass ? Will it ever occur to you that others do this kind of
    >work too, except it's not televised ? Are you a specialist
    >in video assisted clairvoyance ? Was Kunich your teacher ?

    All valid questions.
     
  6. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "warren" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:080520041401024311%[email protected]...
    > In article
    > <[email protected]>, Chris
    > <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I assume this is the latest video on LA and his Tour
    > > efforts that is
    being
    > > broadcast just prior to the noon bradcast of the Giro.
    > > So far, they show
    him
    > > in the wind tunnel with all kinds of feedback for him to
    > > look at as he pedals and breathes. The interesting thing
    > > to me is that Lance is
    talking as
    > > if he has not used this kind of feedback before.
    >
    > He has, or at least nearly all of it.

    I don't believe that the rider had any instrumentation
    available to him before. I don't think that it would be
    worth a whole lot except when you're trying to get
    EVERYTHING LAST bit of drag. Everyone else is limited by the
    power output they have. The top pros all put out pretty much
    the same power so the difference is in the aerodynamic drag.

    > > I love technology in bike racing but why is Lance the
    > > only guy that seems to have the budget to use these
    > > sessions and have
    all of
    > > this special equipment (custom skinsuits, bars, helmets,
    > > wheels etc.).
    >
    > What gives you that impression?

    Ullrich just finished complete wind tunnel testing at MIT
    if I recall.

    > > I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet. Any word
    > > on that?
    >
    > It was mentioned in the first episode and it's probably
    > the one he's using for testing now.

    There's no reason to believe that skin suits, aero
    helmets and drag reducing paint jobs has any practical
    value in a road TT. Remember that when they put LeMond
    into the wind tunnel to test aero bars that he gained
    almost nothing at all. It is likely that Greg gained more
    from being able to relax on the elbow rests than he did
    from the "improved" position.
     
  7. Tm

    Tm Guest

    "Tom Kunich" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:zkdnc.12665>
    > There's no reason to believe that skin suits, aero helmets
    > and drag
    reducing
    > paint jobs has any practical value in a road TT.

    They do for the equipment sponsors!
     
  8. Randy Walton

    Randy Walton Guest

    I think his comment was that the video suggests that this is
    the first time. Not that just cause we haven't seen it, it
    hasn't happened.

    "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > On 8 May 2004 14:11:51 -0700, Amit wrote:
    > >Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of your
    > >ass ? Will it ever occur to you that others do this kind
    > >of work too, except it's not televised ? Are you a
    > >specialist in video assisted clairvoyance ? Was Kunich
    > >your teacher ?
    >
    > All valid questions.
     
  9. In article <[email protected]>,
    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I assume this is the latest video on LA and his Tour
    > efforts that is being broadcast just prior to the noon
    > bradcast of the Giro. So far, they show him in the wind
    > tunnel with all kinds of feedback for him to look at as he
    > pedals and breathes. The interesting thing to me is that
    > Lance is talking as if he has not used this kind of
    > feedback before. That leaves me wondering just how much he
    > could see during the testing in past wind tunnel efforts.
    > Anyhow, the equipment they show him using will even allow
    > him to optimize his breathing rhythm (or at least have a
    > better idea of the actual cost of all of his position and
    > clothing changes inclusiding his breathing).
    >
    > Like I said, I had assumed he had already done this in the
    > past and I am not positive but this video now leads me to
    > believe this is new to him. Crap, this means he still has
    > a shot at improving at the ITT whereas Ullrich would be
    > using this same equipment (if at all) to see how much his
    > gut is slowing him down. This sucks. I love technology in
    > bike racing but why is Lance the only guy that seems to
    > have the budget to use these sessions and have all of this
    > special equipment (custom skinsuits, bars, helmets, wheels
    > etc.). BTW, I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet.
    > Any word on that?

    I think they show the prototype in one or two shots in the
    Lance Chronicles. It appears almost identical to the old
    fairing "helmet", but with a layer of foam inside. I suspect
    it will be just a bit thicker than the old fairing because
    of that, but externally will look very similar.

    Understand that Lance is chasing after incremental gains
    with this stuff, and the two reasons that he's the only guy
    to have access to this stuff are that he is a proven winner
    who is connected to top-flight industry sponsors (Nike,
    Giro, Trek, etc.) with deep pockets, and he has taken an
    interest in this kind of very particular equipment
    preparation.

    At this point Ullrich is dropping out of races and going
    back into training. It could be a big psych-out for some
    reason, and he still has to be a favourite rider, but while
    Lance is showing every sign of preparedness and fitness
    (perhaps also a psych-job; maybe knowing that this is the
    year when his opponents are fairly expectantly hoping for
    some age-induced weakness, he's made a goal of winning his
    early performances), Jan is showing every sign of
    unreadiness.

    Still can't believe Lance lost that 5 kg in one day during
    the TT last year,

    --
    Ryan Cousineau, [email protected]
    http://www.sfu.ca/~rcousine/wiredcola/ President, Fabrizio
    Mazzoleni Fan Club
     
  10. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Randy Walton" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]_s01...
    > I think his comment was that the video suggests that this
    > is the first
    time.
    > Not that just cause we haven't seen it, it hasn't
    > happened.

    If you do a search on Amit's articles you will see that he
    is often making asshole remarks like that. He spreads it
    around fairly thoroughly though so, no harm done. It's all
    part of the RBR experience.

    >
    > "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    > > On 8 May 2004 14:11:51 -0700, Amit wrote:
    > > >Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of
    > > >your ass ? Will it ever occur to you that others do
    > > >this kind of work too, except it's not televised ? Are
    > > >you a specialist in video assisted clairvoyance ? Was
    > > >Kunich your teacher ?
    > >
    > > All valid questions.
     
  11. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Amit" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:<[email protected]>...
    >
    > > Like I said, I had assumed he had already done this in
    > > the past and I am
    not
    > > positive but this video now leads me to believe this is
    > > new to him.
    Crap,
    > > this means he still has a shot at improving at the ITT
    > > whereas Ullrich
    would
    > > be using this same equipment (if at all) to see how much
    > > his gut is
    slowing
    > > him down. This sucks. I love technology in bike racing
    > > but why is Lance
    the
    > > only guy that seems to have the budget to use these
    > > sessions and have
    all of
    > > this special equipment (custom skinsuits, bars, helmets,
    > > wheels etc.).
    BTW,
    > > I have not seen his new compliant TT helmet. Any word
    > > on that?
    >
    > Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of
    > your ass ?

    No, by all means carry on yourself.

    >
    > Will it ever occur to you that others do this kind of work
    > too, except it's not televised ?

    "This kind of work" like a skinsuit from Nike designed from
    all new fabric and design and only available for that "other
    rider"? Or are you talking about the Deda bars that are also
    designed with wind tunnel feedback and contracted to be
    available only for USPS? Perhaps these other riders also
    have helmet designers providing entirely exclusive and yes,
    designed wholly from wind tunnel testing on "that other"
    athlete? I am not even going to count the Trek TT frame that
    was designed in the wind tunnel for Lance since it is no
    longer an exclusive item and would not fall under "wind
    tunnel resource budget" although it may have the while under
    development. Please tell me of any other riders that have
    any custom and exclusive gear that was designed in the wind
    tunnel with the recipient on the bike for testing and
    development. You only have to name a few examples to prove
    your point, or did you have one at all? Maybe your
    clairvoyance (of the "video" variety?) allows you to
    intuitively know how wrong I am. For the benefit of others
    though, why not just post a bit of info to clear things up?

    Could it be that your point is that other athletes show up
    in wind tunnels to test their positions and tweak the
    equipment available to them? Did yo notice in your zeal to
    post your tepid flame that I was stating Armstrong has the
    biggest budget for the ITT wind tunnel tests. If you can
    show any evidence that I am anywhere close to wrong on that
    point, then show the eveidence or at least state what you
    are talking about. What does televising it have to do with
    anything other than making it a current topic? Who cares
    whether any other athlete has their tunnel work televised?
    Did you simply *assume* that I was stating that only LA has
    the budget for *any* wind

    where any other athlete has as much custom equipment
    designed exclusively for that athlete or any evidence at all
    that they spend even half as much (rather than simply
    scheduling a few sessions like most teams have been doing
    for many years for their top GC men).

    >
    > Are you a specialist in video assisted clairvoyance ?

    I don't need the video. Don't you think you should be more
    concerned with your own lack "clairvoyance" and weak
    analytical skills (or is it just poor communication)? Oh,
    (drum role please) is this simply a weak pot shot from one
    of the local assholes known for just this kind of arrogant
    hypocritical bullshit you throw and newbs or anyone you
    think might be one. Talk about clairvoyance, I think I am
    back in the game.

    > Was Kunich your
    > teacher ?

    Put up or shut up dumb ass. You look worse than Koach Kunich
    judging by the article I am replying to.
     
  12. Chris <[email protected]> wrote:

    > Could it be that your point is that other athletes show
    > up in wind tunnels to test their positions and tweak the
    > equipment available to them? Did yo notice in your zeal
    > to post your tepid flame that I was stating Armstrong has
    > the biggest budget for the ITT wind tunnel tests. If you
    > can show any evidence that I am anywhere close to wrong
    > on that point, then show the eveidence or at least state
    > what you are talking about. What does televising it have
    > to do with anything other than making it a current topic?
    > Who cares whether any other athlete has their tunnel work
    > televised? Did you simply *assume* that I was stating
    > that only LA has the budget for *any* wind

    > where any other athlete has as much custom equipment
    > designed exclusively for that athlete or any evidence at
    > all that they spend even half as much (rather than simply
    > scheduling a few sessions like most teams have been doing
    > for many years for their top GC men).

    Chris. You're overreacting.

    It's a video puff piece. It's a promo for Armstrong and a
    not-at-all veiled ad for his various sponsors - Nike, Trek,
    Giro, etc. It's a hook that you're biting, hard. Calm down.

    You don't know what Armstrong's wind tunnel budget is,
    either. Sure it's probably bigger than other teams'. On the
    other hand, most of the other teams are run by traditional
    European DSes who have a reputation for doing things
    conservatively.

    If you burn too many matches like this now, you aren't going
    to make it through three weeks in July.
     
  13. On 05/08/2004 07:22 PM, in article [email protected]_s01, "Randy
    Walton" <[email protected]> wrote:

    > I think his comment was that the video suggests that this
    > is the first time. Not that just cause we haven't seen it,
    > it hasn't happened.

    First time at University of Oregon with this group of
    researchers ... He's always done his aero testing with John
    Cobb at the University of Texas before ...

    > "Ewoud Dronkert" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    > news:[email protected]...
    >> On 8 May 2004 14:11:51 -0700, Amit wrote:
    >>> Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of your
    >>> ass ? Will it ever occur to you that others do this kind
    >>> of work too, except it's not televised ? Are you a
    >>> specialist in video assisted clairvoyance ? Was Kunich
    >>> your teacher ?
    >>
    >> All valid questions.
    >
    >

    --
    Steven L. Sheffield stevens at veloworks dot com veloworks
    at worldnet dot ay tea tee dot net bellum pax est libertas
    servitus est ignoratio vis est ess ay ell tea ell ay kay ee
    sea aye tee why you ti ay aitch aitch tee tea pea colon [for
    word] slash [four ward] slash double-you double-yew double-
    ewe dot veloworks dot com [four word] slash
     
  14. Anonymous

    Anonymous Guest

    "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:BCC3ABA7.307C0%[email protected]...
    > On 05/08/2004 07:22 PM, in article
    > [email protected]_s01,
    "Randy
    > Walton" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I think his comment was that the video suggests that
    > > this is the first
    time.
    > > Not that just cause we haven't seen it, it hasn't
    > > happened.
    >
    >
    > First time at University of Oregon with this group of
    > researchers ... He's always done his aero testing with
    > John Cobb at the University of Texas before ...
    >
    >

    Not Oregon, Washington
     
  15. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:BCC3ABA7.307C0%[email protected]...
    > On 05/08/2004 07:22 PM, in article
    > [email protected]_s01,
    "Randy
    > Walton" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I think his comment was that the video suggests that
    > > this is the first
    time.
    > > Not that just cause we haven't seen it, it hasn't
    > > happened.
    >
    >
    > First time at University of Oregon with this group of
    > researchers ... He's always done his aero testing with
    > John Cobb at the University of Texas before ...

    This is the first time he did it with feedback from a
    monitor while in the tunnel.
     
  16. Dave

    Dave Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > I assume this is the latest video on LA and his Tour
    > efforts that is being broadcast just prior to the noon
    > bradcast of the Giro. So far, they show him in the wind
    > tunnel with all kinds of feedback for him to look at as he
    > pedals and breathes. The interesting thing to me is that
    > Lance is talking as if he has not used this kind of
    > feedback before. That leaves me wondering just how much he
    > could see during the testing in past wind tunnel efforts.
    > Anyhow, the equipment they show him using will even allow
    > him to optimize his breathing rhythm (or at least have a
    > better idea of the actual cost of all of his position and
    > clothing changes inclusiding his breathing).
    <snip>

    Andybody happen to catch the name of the wind tunnel he uses
    now in WA....? The "Kirsten" wind tunnel

    Dave
     
  17. Chris

    Chris Guest

    "Benjamin Weiner" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    > Chris <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > Could it be that your point is that other athletes show
    > > up in wind
    tunnels
    > > to test their positions and tweak the equipment
    > > available to them? Did
    yo
    > > notice in your zeal to post your tepid flame that I was
    > > stating
    Armstrong
    > > has the biggest budget for the ITT wind tunnel tests. If
    > > you can show
    any
    > > evidence that I am anywhere close to wrong on that
    > > point, then show the eveidence or at least state what
    > > you are talking about. What does
    televising
    > > it have to do with anything other than making it a
    > > current topic? Who
    cares
    > > whether any other athlete has their tunnel work
    > > televised? Did you
    simply
    > > *assume* that I was stating that only LA has the budget
    > > for *any* wind

    me
    > > where any other athlete has as much custom equipment
    > > designed
    exclusively
    > > for that athlete or any evidence at all that they spend
    > > even half as
    much
    > > (rather than simply scheduling a few sessions like
    > > most teams have been doing for many years for their
    > > top GC men).
    >
    > Chris. You're overreacting.

    I don't think so.

    > It's a video puff piece. It's a promo for Armstrong and a
    > not-at-all veiled ad for his various sponsors - Nike,
    > Trek, Giro, etc. It's a hook that you're biting, hard.
    > Calm down.

    Yes it is, but what does that have to do with the subject? I
    am talking about fact discussed in this "puff piece", not
    its style, purpose or anything other than facts. I am
    perfectly calm.

    > You don't know what Armstrong's wind tunnel budget
    > is, either.

    I know that is is bigger than anyone else's and anyone that
    puts any thought at all in to it would not dispute this.

    > Sure it's probably bigger than other teams'.

    Yeah, ok.

    >On the other hand, most of the other teams are run by
    >traditional European DSes who have a reputation for doing
    >things conservatively.

    No, that is not the issue. Watch out or you will be accused
    of talking out your ass (isn't that a better example of it?)

    The first team to do this was Renault in the late 70s. The
    Americans were probably not the last to do it but not even
    close to the first. I don't count Lemond in the tunnel at
    Renault (team sponsor and wind tunnel providor in this
    case) as "American enginuity". Isn't that another case of
    "talking out..." Why make assumptions? If you do not know
    or care about the subject then don't sweat it.

    > If you burn too many matches like this now, you aren't
    > going to make it through three weeks in July.

    You have no idea what you are talking about here. There is
    nothing that required any extra effort at all. Amit is often
    an asshole anyway but I think I would have said the same
    thing to anyone else. Your advice is not welcome.
     
  18. Amit

    Amit Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message news:<409db211$0$35079

    > > Are you trying to perfect the art of talking out of
    > > your ass ?
    >
    > No, by all means carry on yourself.
    >

    I can accept that sometimes people are wrong. You on the
    other hand write at length and with great conviction about
    things you're totally out to lunch on (ref : When did
    Armstrong met Kristin? (sic) thread).
     
  19. Tom Kunich

    Tom Kunich Guest

    "Chris" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:[email protected]...
    >
    >
    > "This kind of work" like a skinsuit from Nike designed
    > from all new fabric and design and only available for that
    > "other rider"? Or are you talking about the Deda bars that
    > are also designed with wind tunnel feedback and contracted
    > to be available only for USPS?

    Remember how Giro almost shit when Lance was beat in a
    TT by a Spaniard wearing his own hair and nothing else
    on his head?

    Skin suits may be good for someone's psychy but the
    difference in actual time is irrelevant.
     
  20. "Steven L. Sheffield" <[email protected]> wrote in message
    news:BCC3ABA7.307C0%[email protected]...
    > On 05/08/2004 07:22 PM, in article
    > [email protected]_s01,
    "Randy
    > Walton" <[email protected]> wrote:
    >
    > > I think his comment was that the video suggests that
    > > this is the first
    time.
    > > Not that just cause we haven't seen it, it hasn't
    > > happened.
    >
    >
    > First time at University of Oregon with this group of
    > researchers ... He's always done his aero testing with
    > John Cobb at the University of Texas before ...
    >
    Excuse me, that's University of Washington. I don't think
    the University of Oregon has an Aero/Astro department or a
    wind tunnel, and even if they did they wouldn't be any good
    anyway. ;-)

    Jason (UW Aero/Astro '97)
     
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