Least favourite rider?



Which 2003 Tour Riders least impressed?

  • Alessandro Petacchi

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Robbie McEwen

    Votes: 40 28.8%
  • Lance Armstrong

    Votes: 38 27.3%
  • Rene Hasselbacher

    Votes: 43 30.9%
  • Jaun Antonio Fleche

    Votes: 15 10.8%
  • Someone else

    Votes: 3 2.2%

  • Total voters
    139

mitosis

New Member
Jun 21, 2004
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derKaiser said:
Yeah, I saw the quote. But the policy was "no gifts" after that stage. Lance didn't even sprint for the line.

If you saw it on TV you would have noticed that Lance couldn't sprint for the line. Have a look on his face. He didn't have it in him.

Also at that stage, Basso was a serious threat, Armstrong needed time on him too.

:)
 

bradlynd

New Member
Aug 3, 2004
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Lance will not give any gifts again ever...


Even though he has done some amazing things in his career, I am not a big fan of Lance in general. To his credit, after giving one to Pantani and getting burned, he will never do it again.

There are plenty of more exciting people out there these days in the spring classics and the other two tours. Thats the best thing about cycling at the moment, millions of wildcards.

Comment on Euskatel tactics: Zubeldia and Mayo were riding a classic smart race when they hung on Ullrich. This is precisely how you win if you are a smart rider who knows your limitations and take advatage of someone elses strengths. Even if they took some pulls, they would still be able to outkick Ullrich if it came down to a sprint at the end.
 

bradlynd

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Aug 3, 2004
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I forgot to mention: Mark my words, Ivan Basso will be a factor in long tours for the next 5 years. He will only get better climbing and his TT ability will improve as well.
 

Roadrash Dunc

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Aug 19, 2004
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I tend to agree about Basso.He is a promising rider and it was no fluke this year.Although he does have an awesome team.
 

derKaiser

New Member
Jul 28, 2004
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But what if, in 2003, Vino, Hamilton, Mayo, and Zubeldia had not started or dropped out of the Tour? Guess what...Basso would have finished third and everyone would have been lauding his "phenomenal effort." Well, that's what happened this year and Basso ended up third. He finished on the podium because there wasn't anyone else to finish there (aside from a terribly out of form Ullrich). The other competition included wheel-suckers like Paco Mancebo and Geor Totschnig, hardly podium material.

And the reason the time gap between Armstrong and Basso wasn't that great is because Armstrong was running away with victory. There wasn't enough incentive for risk-taking.

And yes, Basso stayed with Armstrong on the climbs. But had Heras not been working for him in so many past years, he could have stayed with Armstrong too. Basso is a poor man's Joseba Beloki. He'll always be there, but never for the win.

Roadrash Dunc said:
I tend to agree about Basso.He is a promising rider and it was no fluke this year.Although he does have an awesome team.
 

bradlynd

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Aug 3, 2004
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Lance had a great tour, is a credit to every pro over 30 and is doing great things for cycling (domestically and internationally).

You can argue that Lance dominates the world but you can't argue that he and the team exist for one month a year and the rest of the team get table scraps in other races if they can get them with no support. I am hoping that Landis and Beltran put on a good show at the Vuelta because they deserve it after the hard work at the TDF

I am not arguing, just giving my opinion here.

I am interested in seeing what happens to Danielson in a few years as well, that guy can climb...
 

tcklyde

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Dec 17, 2003
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derKaiser said:
And the reason the time gap between Armstrong and Basso wasn't that great is because Armstrong was running away with victory. There wasn't enough incentive for risk-taking.

I think this is a good point. And stages 15 and 17 support it. In both stages LA won in a dominating sprint at the end. You have to think that if there was a major concern for LA about winning that he would have attacked earlier and tried to open up some time. Instead he just cruised along and then took the stage with a sprint at the end. It almost felt like he was just having fun playing with the sprinting skills he found that he had at the Tour of Georgia.
 

Flyer

Banned
Sep 20, 2004
2,961
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Well, there are many. All the admitted liars are easy to dislike. The ones who still deny are also troubling.


David Miller, a liar, cheat and fraud.

Frank Vandenbroucke, nearly shooting his wife, caught with loads of trauma drugs, and he is bi-polar too.

David Rebellin is looking more and more dishonest as he protects his own butt and the memory of Liquigas teammate Denis Zanette, heart attack victim #1 on January 10, 2003.

Eddy Plankaert, now bankrupt in 2004, and an admitted EPO and trauma drug abuser after years of denials. Finally, an honest convert..

Tyler Hamilton, bringing his wife, his father and his dead dog into a blood testing failure PR campaign. He convinced most of his loyal fans--but sadly not his employer.

But, the biggest scam artist, and the highest paid one to boot--is Lance.

1) a ten year commitment to alleged doping with Michele Ferrari, now suspended for medical malpractice.

2) Calling Filippo Simeoni a liar---twice.

3) Chasing down Simeoni, once, then instructing his entire USPO Team to counter him on the final day into Paris.

4) the shameful open letter to Richard Pound of the World Anti Doping Agency. Another example of Lance's commitment to doper's rights and against doping compliance rules.

5) The renewal with Discovery Channel so as to continue the commercial fraud with yet another sponsor. We can only hope that more exciting "Discoveries" will be revealed there.

6) describing his Acto--something (Actovegin calf plasma) as a neosporen abrasion cream. (Dec. 2000)
His own website explanation, if you can believe it.

7) Any admission of illegal doping---or doping whatsoever, will risk his commercial revenue. So he is stuck with this difficult position, much like his Nike peers Barry Bonnds and Marion Jones are.

So, I guess it is Lance who wins again.
 

limerickman

Moderator
Jan 5, 2004
16,130
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Flyer said:
Well, there are many. All the admitted liars are easy to dislike. The ones who still deny are also troubling.


David Miller, a liar, cheat and fraud.

Frank Vandenbroucke, nearly shooting his wife, caught with loads of trauma drugs, and he is bi-polar too.

David Rebellin is looking more and more dishonest as he protects his own butt and the memory of Liquigas teammate Denis Zanette, heart attack victim #1 on January 10, 2003.

Eddy Plankaert, now bankrupt in 2004, and an admitted EPO and trauma drug abuser after years of denials. Finally, an honest convert..

Tyler Hamilton, bringing his wife, his father and his dead dog into a blood testing failure PR campaign. He convinced most of his loyal fans--but sadly not his employer.

But, the biggest scam artist, and the highest paid one to boot--is Lance.

1) a ten year commitment to alleged doping with Michele Ferrari, now suspended for medical malpractice.

2) Calling Filippo Simeoni a liar---twice.

3) Chasing down Simeoni, once, then instructing his entire USPO Team to counter him on the final day into Paris.

4) the shameful open letter to Richard Pound of the World Anti Doping Agency. Another example of Lance's commitment to doper's rights and against doping compliance rules.

5) The renewal with Discovery Channel so as to continue the commercial fraud with yet another sponsor. We can only hope that more exciting "Discoveries" will be revealed there.

6) describing his Acto--something (Actovegin calf plasma) as a neosporen abrasion cream. (Dec. 2000)
His own website explanation, if you can believe it.

7) Any admission of illegal doping---or doping whatsoever, will risk his commercial revenue. So he is stuck with this difficult position, much like his Nike peers Barry Bonnds and Marion Jones are.

So, I guess it is Lance who wins again.


You are right of course.
But you'll have the LA squad here up in arms !
 

bobke

New Member
Oct 3, 2004
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Virenque, hands down.
My least favorite rider of all time.
HE is the cheat, the liar and the guy who never took responsibility.

Wow, I'm so glad I never again have to see him kiss his index finger as he crosses a finish line. He can climb well, but head to head with Lance, Mayo, Basso, Ullrich, Hamilto etc he cannot hold their wheels. He only survives by doing the long breakaway.

You cannot take that away from him because that is a real athletic feat as well, but it is different from being a contender for the overall and breaking away for 60 km solo the was Merckx did over the Tourmalet on the way to was it Cauterets or Luz Ardeiden or Aubisque or whatver.

The peloton lets him get away because it is in mutlitple teams' interest and especially USPS to throw a bone to the spiteful French who would take it out on Lance if they didnt.

Think about it...
The EXACT same way USPS 'LET" Francois Simon have the jersey in 2001, Virenque 2003, and Voeckler 2004. USPS has the thing under such control that they completely determine who gets away and takes the jersey. Just like a movie diretor, Bruyneel just reels back each break until they like it. Total domination.
 

donhix1

New Member
Nov 28, 2003
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Virenque and Jalabert seems like they started a trend of going for the Polka dot. THey have to sandbag a stage so that when they go on a break they won't be a GC threat.
 

micron

New Member
Jun 19, 2003
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I suppose the Virenque that took the KoM jersey and the 2nd spot on the podium in 1997 wasn't going for the overall then? Oh, sorry, I forget that you 'Lovers of the Sainted Lance' aren't acquainted with road racing pre-1999.

Of course it's great to be able to ladle all your vitriol on Virenque - after all he's one of the 'spiteful' French. Just remember that, exactly like the Sainted Lance, Virenque never tested positive. And it's arguable that some of his finest stage wins in the Tour and his superb win in Paris-Nice were ridden clean.

Interesting that you vilify Virenque who, just to remind you, never tested positive whilst were I to attack Hamilton (who tested positive at the Olympics and the Vuelta) for being a 'spiteful' American I would be instantly flamed.

My least favourite riders are those in denial, who make a mockery of the sport they profess to love so much. I leave it to you to work out which sanctimonious riders I might be referring to.
 

Espada9

New Member
Jun 4, 2004
132
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donhix1 said:
Virenque and Jalabert seems like they started a trend of going for the Polka dot. THey have to sandbag a stage so that when they go on a break they won't be a GC threat.
Jalabert was one of the most successful riders of the 90's winning more races in his career than Lance could ever dream of, news flash, the Tour is NOT the only race on the calendar that matters (unless you’re a non cyclist douche-bag that only reads Sports Illustrated).

Lame-O cyclist list…

Laurent Roux-Drugged out French cry-baby

Verinque, see above

Pantani, psychotic Italian midget crack head

I’m convinced Riis and Ciapuchi were juiced to the eyeballs, but that was the pre EPO testing era, so…..

OK, Riis is a great Director!

Hinault, NAZI of the peleton, OK, he was a great champion, one of the greatest champions of all time, but what an asshole!

Mickel Zanoli, 6 foot 6 anger management king, fist fighting in a bunch sprint???
 

Espada9

New Member
Jun 4, 2004
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micron said:
I suppose the Virenque that took the KoM jersey and the 2nd spot on the podium in 1997 wasn't going for the overall then? Oh, sorry, I forget that you 'Lovers of the Sainted Lance' aren't acquainted with road racing pre-1999.

Of course it's great to be able to ladle all your vitriol on Virenque - after all he's one of the 'spiteful' French. Just remember that, exactly like the Sainted Lance, Virenque never tested positive. And it's arguable that some of his finest stage wins in the Tour and his superb win in Paris-Nice were ridden clean.

Interesting that you vilify Virenque who, just to remind you, never tested positive whilst were I to attack Hamilton (who tested positive at the Olympics and the Vuelta) for being a 'spiteful' American I would be instantly flamed.

My least favourite riders are those in denial, who make a mockery of the sport they profess to love so much. I leave it to you to work out which sanctimonious riders I might be referring to.
That would be Paris-Tours, the late season sprinters classic, not to be
confused with the early season Paris-Nice stage race (for all of those people who followed cycling pre 1999). Virenque never won Paris-Nice.

Virenque was a real POS as a rider, and yes he never tested positive, but his WHOLE FUCKING TEAM was kicked out of the Tour being caught with a TON of EPO (I may have even made that lot). Festing was exposed for having a systematic doping program and all the riders were found guilty. Virenque later admitted his guilt (perhaps even **** heads have a conscious).

EPO went commercial in 1989 (US FDA approval) and was used almost immediately by the Pro peleton. I happen to know this because I’ve worked in the Biotech/Pharmaceutical industry for over 15 years and am a former Amgen employee (I worked in clinical manufacturing, guess what I used to make?).

Look up Amgen, Inc. Thousand Oaks, California.

You sound like you’re from somewhere in Europe, or some third world **** hole by your contempt for Lance and your belief that your guilty until proven innocent (unless it suits your needs).

Now I’m no fan of Lance, but until there are some shreds of evidence (other that Euro tabloid trash marketed to single digit IQ socialist morons), I’ll give the guy his due, he knows how to win the Tour.

As for Tyler, I doubt you have much of a scientific background and if you look at what he’s charged with, you would begin to understand how retarded it sounds, injecting SOMEONE ELSES BLOOD into you body???

Who would do that? And for what gain? You could achieve the same results by training at altitude, using a hyperberic chamber or even using EPO (it’s undetectable after a brief period but still stimulates the growth of red blood cells).

From what I’ve read, the test methods used for detecting abnormalities on a cellular level was never correctly validated, no, I’m not a doctor, but I specialize in validating testing methods in the industry and unless you test for both POSITIVE and NEGATIVE as well as REPEATIBILITY you don’t have a valid test method (there is still the possibility of chance or untested variables).
 

micron

New Member
Jun 19, 2003
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Espada, I would love to know exactly why you hold Europeans in such contempt, but then I doubt if I could bother expending the energy on reading your reply.

Silly me for the Paris-Nice typo but at least I was on the Avenue Grammont that day, as I have been at many stage finishes of many European races - as I imagine you have?
 

Espada9

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Jun 4, 2004
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micron said:
Espada, I would love to know exactly why you hold Europeans in such contempt, but then I doubt if I could bother expending the energy on reading your reply.

Silly me for the Paris-Nice typo but at least I was on the Avenue Grammont that day, as I have been at many stage finishes of many European races - as I imagine you have?
Wow! You’re my fucking hero!
I was on Les Dues Alps (I’m not gay so I don't know how to spell French *** names) in 98’ to see that drugged up freak Pantani cheat his way on to the podium, am I cool now?

As for Euros, I guess you could say I’m indifferent to most of them, of all the time I’ve spent over there the only negative experience I’ve ever had was in France.
The Italians and Spaniards were especially cool; they know how to have a good time without taking themselves to serious.
The problem I have with the Euro attitude is with their snobbish contempt and jealousy, and how ignorant they are when it comes to the US. Believe it or not, what you see on reruns of bay watch or your latest Hollywood movie is NOT representative of the US.
 

Roy Gardiner

New Member
Sep 15, 2003
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Espada9 said:
The problem I have with the Euro attitude is with their snobbish contempt and jealousy, and how ignorant they are when it comes to the US.
Americans not Europeans are, in my experience, the most insular people anywhere.

For instance. I was in the US when the Lewinsky dress stain saga broke. I watched the news for an hour, there was no other story bar 10secs on the 25% devaluation of the rouble the previous day. That's an extreme example, but there routinely is next to no international coverage of anything in the US media.

Europeans in general have a far wider world view than the average American, are indeed justifiably contemptuous of American smugness and ignorance, are jealous of very little that's American bar sheer wealth, and are a great deal less ignorant of the US that the US citizen is of anywhere else.
 

limerickman

Moderator
Jan 5, 2004
16,130
115
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micron said:
I suppose the Virenque that took the KoM jersey and the 2nd spot on the podium in 1997 wasn't going for the overall then? Oh, sorry, I forget that you 'Lovers of the Sainted Lance' aren't acquainted with road racing pre-1999.

Of course it's great to be able to ladle all your vitriol on Virenque - after all he's one of the 'spiteful' French. Just remember that, exactly like the Sainted Lance, Virenque never tested positive. And it's arguable that some of his finest stage wins in the Tour and his superb win in Paris-Nice were ridden clean.

Interesting that you vilify Virenque who, just to remind you, never tested positive whilst were I to attack Hamilton (who tested positive at the Olympics and the Vuelta) for being a 'spiteful' American I would be instantly flamed.

My least favourite riders are those in denial, who make a mockery of the sport they profess to love so much. I leave it to you to work out which sanctimonious riders I might be referring to.


There's a great interview with the greatest climber of all time - Federico Bahamontes in the Feb edition of Cycle Sport.
RV passed FB's KOM wins.
Bahamontes is scathing about RV - and rightly so.

As regards Spade and his views : look at the US scene, Hamilton, Armstrong, Carl Lewis, Marion Jones, Alexi Grewal, dopeurs all.
US sport is saturated with cheating and cheaters.